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That's a shame, really fancied going there at some point...
Shame, weren't they at the forefront of getting UK guiding qualifications recognised?
I'm booked on the Davos one... hopefully it'll still happen. 😕
Holy carp! Thats a shock. I've not had much experience with them, but last years Enduro2 was bloody epic! Would love to have done it this year too - lucky I didnt...I hope everyone gets their money back ok
Shame, weren't they at the forefront of getting UK guiding qualifications recognised?
they liked you to think they were. but in reality, they weren't (i know a few of the people actually involved in it all)
Damn. We've paid deposits (and flights separately) for Trans Savoie guided version.
Wow, that's going to leave a bit of a hole in the LesArcs summer season this year ain't it!
anyone who's been wanting to go to that area would be well served to look at 'The White Room' having been to both TA and WR they're a much better bet anyway. Shame for the boys at TA tho' It's not entirely risk free getting into running lots of races eh!
What an immense shame. Trailaddiction were some of the early pioneers in guided downhill mountain bike holidays from the early 2000's and alongside Bike Village were the first to bring mainstream mountain biking to Les Arcs / La Plagne. There will be a huge hole there now without them, especially as they worked so hard to ensure the lifts were open for as long as they were and also worked hard to get UK qualifications recognized in the area.
A real shame, I’ve never used them, but have used their GPX’s to ride trails in Les Arc – am I part of the reason for their downfall? Possibly, but maybe if they had been more accommodating with day rate guiding etc then they could have survived.
Although was browsing their website last week and considering a few of their options.
My real problem with this is that they have been taking bookings for races and guiding, and then suddenly just announced they will not be able to provide these services anymore. Take the money and run…..
Word on the street is that this is an "abnormal" event, in that TA are (were) solvent and had a valid business case (as you would expect after all those years trading), but have been landed with a one off huge debt, that in one swoop liquidates them. Here is not the place to go into the details and the whyfors, but i'm lead to believe they are owing the French government around half a million euros! A real pity, and i hope people who have booked for the various events gets at least some of their money back.
My real problem with this is that they have been taking bookings for races and guiding, and then suddenly just announced they will not be able to provide these services anymore. Take the money and run…..
anyone who's booked needs to contact administrators/credit/debit card issuers, to get a full/partial refund
- again, that's what they wanted you to think - the vast majority of the hard work was actually done by others.also worked hard to get UK qualifications recognized in the area.
Word on the street is that this is an "abnormal" event, in that TA are (were) solvent and had a valid business case (as you would expect after all those years trading), but have been landed with a one off huge debt, that in one swoop liquidates them. Here is not the place to go into the details and the whyfors, but i'm lead to believe they are owing the French government around half a million euros! A real pity, and i hope people who have booked for the various events gets at least some of their money back.
yep i'd heard similar - i'm doing a bit of digging - interesting stuff...
they liked you to think they were. but in reality, they weren't (i know a few of the people actually involved in it all)
And some of those few you don't know were from tA... Stop listening to gossip and believing glory seekers. Everyone wants to claim to have done that but in reality it was and still is A LOT of different people all fighting/working for the same thing.
That is a shame, couple of us went with them a few years ago we had a great time.
anyone who's booked needs to contact administrators/credit/debit card issuers, to get a full/partial refund
I did read that. If i had just paid £1k for this and then had the offer of a 'partial' refund, I wouldn't be happy, as you would expect - hence my comment above.
It's a shame, this. Have to say not everything they do was welcome- the races had caused some really obvious damage to non-bike trails and had pissed off some locals no end, frinstance. But so many happy faces and great holidays and memories...
Hope nobody's left out of pocket! Just paid for my summer hols with a different country, I'd shit a brick if they went out of business.
Wow that's a big shock and presumably a big blow for the area. I visited Les Arcs a few years ago and that was mostly on the back of all the publicity they had brought to the area. I stayed with the goat shed as I wasn't after a fully guided trip (they were fantastic, would 100% recommend).
I often daydream about riding the Trans Savoie..
My real problem with this is that they have been taking bookings for races and guiding, and then suddenly just announced they will not be able to provide these services anymore. Take the money and run…..
Thats 100% not what has happened.... the company is in to liquidation so no one but the administrators will be taking any money and running.
Paid for enduro2 entry in December. Already booked ferry. Fortunately hadn't yet booked accommodation, but was in the process of doing so.
Been on to credit card company, be 7 days before I hear back..
Should i wait it out re the davos one or try to get money back?
Unfortunately didn't pay on cc, didn't expect these guys to go under. Accom booked but think we're going anyway and seek out trails!
We've had a massive camper van booked for Davos, we're going somewhere in September, race or not!
I went with them last year, good crew of lads and lasses. Shame not just for those who had booked holidays but the employees are probably left with a problem as well, I bet they had already based their year on working for them. Lets be honest it isn't a great paid life but work based on living and riding in the mountains.
I think that they had got over the problems they had with a previous mayor, and that the current mayor was more accommodating to the guided biking operators. iirc last year they were not able to get as much accommodation as they wanted, what they did have was full. I certainly don't think they had much scope for day guiding when they have guests paying for full weeks.
I think there is still plenty of scope for more guiding operators, and it would be interesting to know what caused their current problem. It does seem that the French themselves are not into these guided holidays and it is mainly brits and northern Europeans that use them.
Amazing crew of folk
Some of the stuff I've done with them has been up there with the best weeks I've had on planet earth
I hope they get passed this nonsense and that they don't let it stop them being awesome
All the best Ali, Serena and Tim
Ouch!
Had a good trip to Les Arcs with TA a few years back, hope people with bookings manage to get some ££ back.
I hope they get passed this nonsense
Having gone into administration there's no 'getting past the nonsense'. Depending on the nature of the issues that put them in the business could be bought as a going concern by someone else but I'm not sure there's enough assets to make that viable.
but i'm lead to believe they are owing the French government around half a million euros
That kind of sudden & large bill sounds rather like a tax demand IMHO..
Such a shame. Had paid a deposit for the 2017 Trans Savoie which was then switched to a package holiday guided week when that was cancelled. Hopefully can get my money back from ABTOT as my insurance doesn't cover insolvency claims.
Shame for the guys too - always seemed super friendly when I spoke to them and I'm sure they're smarting more than we are about all of this.
Fingers crossed a phoenix can rise from the ashes and that the Trans Savoie will be back in 2018 as planned.
Yeah we were in for both Enduro2's... fingers crossed still for Davos. Good news there at least was checked with campsite - lots of space and a free lift ticket with pitches... going riding one way or the other!
Ouch. Real shame. Did Destination-X with them and had a great time. Met Ali there as he was researching new trails.
I did notice the holiday options offered where way down on prior years.
Thats 100% not what has happened.... the company is in to liquidation so no one but the administrators will be taking any money and running.
Just for clarity it is possible they have taken money out of the company prior to the liquidation. I am nit saying they have but it is possible to do that.
As for the 500,000€ yup that sounds like a tax demand. French tax authorities are much more aggressive than UK and can and do conduct audits and are perfectly capable of issuing large demands if they do not agree with past tax submissions or treatments.
Shame, weren't they at the forefront of getting UK guiding qualifications recognised
Yup and thats a good way to make enemies.
scaled - Kai showed me a photo of a 6-wheeler campervan the other day...sounds like you're a passenger on that 😉
Had a good holiday with them a few years back and our guide was excellent.
My thoughts at the time of the UK qualifications arguments was upsetting the locals may not have be a good idea. I hope it's not the case.
Pity.
My thoughts at the time of the UK qualifications arguments was upsetting the locals may not have be a good idea. I hope it's not the case.
Whatever EU law says the French are extremely agressive at protecting their domestic interests.
Fully paid up with them for a week in July. Am not hopeful of getting the full amount back as it stands but won't stop me heading out the same week anyway. Real shame.
Is this down to the same issue with UK ski guides getting banned by the French (government?). They've been hit with a big fine and/or tax bill perhaps?
Real shame, and makes you worry about others as well.
Bugger..... and stuff.
2 of us had paid deposits for the TS tour after the Trans Savoie proper was cancelled.. thank fully we hadn't paid the balance.. still a bit cross tho'
When we were there last there was a time and motion bloke with a tank top and matching rucksac,who was timing the lads driving the vans and guiding on and off the job. It turns out they are only allowed to work 37 hours/wk... otherwise a fine etc etc.
Ah bugger, 3 of us had paid deposits, went a couple of years back and really enjoyed the week. I did notice when booking they were only offering 1 chalet this time where as they were doing 2 when I last went.
TBH I'm more annoyed about not going than the money at the moment, might just rough it in a tent for the week.
6 of us had paid for the Les Arcs Enduro2.
To add insult to injury we also found out the lifts wouldn't have been open for remainder of the trip and the £1100 airbnb has a 50% + service charge cancellation policy!
@deadkenny would not surprise me in the slightest, French are ultra protectionist and would rather see less tourists than allow an operation they decide doesn't meet "their" qualifications.
To add insult to injury we also found out the lifts wouldn't have been open for remainder of the trip and the £1100 airbnb has a 50% + service charge cancellation policy!
Time to get reading the travel insurance docs I reckon
I am saddened by this news. I holidayed with TA for probably 10 years solid, and whilst the obligatory use of their disappointing accommodation always bugged me the riding was amazing. Trail 101 in destination X was sublime.
Gutted for all the guys and anyone that may loose their holiday this year. I was always worried about paying them as they only offered direct bank transfer so no section 74 protection.
I suspect foul play, I know the French authorities have been trying to bring down Ali for years. I was in Les arcs a few years back when all the UK cars in Vallandry got vandalised including my own. Plenty of locals obviously don't want us there. Shame, undoubtedly some of the best riding in the Alps, particularly Beaufortain.
Good luck Ali, maybe try Spanish Pyrenees next?
i wonder what it'll mean for White Room. either they'll be reaping the rewards with loads of extra business, or folk are gonna wary of paying out for a holiday with a British guiding company in France!? Hopefully the former, and hopefully someone else will step into TA shoes and provide similar in Les Arcs....
If your abnb was in borg still go its a great base even without Les Arc lifts, check lift dates at la thile, Plia(amazing place), Tignes, val'd'iere & Beaufort.To add insult to injury we also found out the lifts wouldn't have been open for remainder of the trip and the £1100 airbnb has a 50% + service charge cancellation policy!
Best get booking with the inside line! https://theinsidelinemtb.com/tag/mountain-bike-guiding/
Legal French guiding and Emily is ace.
French are ultra protectionist and would rather see less tourists than allow an operation they decide doesn't meet "their" qualifications.
It's a shortsighted approach as French holiday bookings are falling off a cliff. The less adventurous American and Canadian tourists are staying away since Bataclan and Nice.
Is this the same company that got into a public spat on here a couple of years ago or was that someone else?
Do they charge in Euros?
Did that mean their prices have all gone up 15+% since that vote, or did they take the hit themselves?
Still sounds like an lot of people were willing to pay
mahalo - Member
i wonder what it'll mean for White Room. either they'll be reaping the rewards with loads of extra business, or folk are gonna wary of paying out for a holiday with a British guiding company in France!? Hopefully the former, and hopefully someone else will step into TA shoes and provide similar in Les Arcs....
Looking at their 'Meet the Team' page it looks like their guides all have French qualifications so maybe they just saw this coming.
Another vote for Emily if she isn't already booked up it wont take long.
This has nothing to do with be able to (or not) legally guide in France.
So misunderstand their French tax requirement then?timbud - MemberThis has nothing to do with be able to (or not) legally guide in France.
A shout for White Room Chalet, have skied with them twice and they are excellent. I was checking availablity a week ago best decide soon as they will be sold out soon.
@hugh yes Stevo and his team all have French qualifications. As I said I have spoken at length with numerous ski holiday guides and operators and the French are very effective at making qualification as a person who did not grow up in France or those with non-French qualifications very difficult to be approved. Living here and having a French wife with family who own and run small / medium businesses the tax authoities are very aggressive, do full audits much more frequently and more than capable of slapping on a big demand going back a few years. Also as above the "French system" means local officials like Mayor have a lot of influence and IME there can be a lot of dirty tricks like pushing for financial / tax audits. When I first kept my boat in France I was told by my French crew to make sure I infroduced myself to the Mayoir and showed his "some love" to avoid any problems down the road and generally smooth things along
I infroduced myself to the Mayoir and showed his "some love"
This isn't about sex, Gary, it's about trust!
TA are (were) solvent and had a valid business case (as you would expect after all those years trading), but have been landed with a one off huge debt, that in one swoop liquidates them
They don't have a valid business case if they were only solvent through not paying their tax bill...
Bunch of four of us been caught by this.
Were booked on Trans Savoie trip mid July. Only minimal deposits paid anyway (thankfully) but also got sleazyjet flights to GVA booked and paid for. Insurance won't cover that, so we'll be looking for other options.
What can STW mob recommend within range of GVA?
Whiteroom
Inside Line
Any others?
Any contacts for guides ex-TA who might be interested in guiding Trans Savoie route independently?
[url= https://www.alpedhueznet.com/lifts/summer-dates ]Lifts are open here throughout July[/url]
It will be nice & quiet after the Mega finishes
Thats a fair way from Geneva, over 2 hr drive.
Well bourg is an hour so...
Ecky-Thump - Member
What can STW mob recommend within range of GVA?
Whiteroom
Inside Line
Any others?
Bike Village. They operate in the same area as Trail Addiction did and the White Room still do. I've been to both Bike Village and the White Room and would recommend both.
BikeVillage are good guys, but they do seem to spend a lot of time pedalling up roads when the lifts are so plentiful
Wow, I nearly booked with TA for a week this summer.
I'll have to speak to WhiteRoom instead!
If you want a full weeks holiday white rooms as stated are excellent, if you want guiding for a couple of days worth having a look at Enduro Camp you can find them on Facebook or give them a call on +33 6 16 38 07 17, they are based out of tignes but will pick up and shuttle from most places in the valley, they are Fench guides so their marketing/ website is terrible to no existent, but they know there way round the trails as all are local and are a pretty good bunch of lads, expect a few of there mates to tag along on the ride, as well as qualified mountain bike bike guides they are all winter ski instructors So expect a bit of that going on as well, "bend zee knees" but they do buy you a beer at the end of the day.
There seems to be a fair amount of conspiracy theory thinking going on here, I don't really understand why people are mingling it with the whole guiding legality/equivalance issues tbh, it seems very... nonobvious.
I don't know if TA's guides were all qualified but if they weren't, more fool them... I'll give them the benefit of the doubt tbh. Sam at Bikevillage has been taking this on head on with the equivalance, White Room have been legit for years. And at least some of TA's guides are- Yvan Bonin (ex white room) was guiding with them last year, he not only had his tickets but also he's the frenchest man that's ever lived. (I love that man, I've no real affection for TA but I hope he rides it out)
Guide companies are small businesses , the explanation of a genuine financial shock (for whatever reason) seems more obvious than the alternatives... Financial impropriety, financial errors, normal business stresses, whatever.
All of tA's guides were french qualified last year
@timbud so what happened ?... we are pretty out of pocket due to this and really want to know if we stand a chance of getting a refund.. we were booked on the TS tour.
double post ... sorry
Cardo - my group of three were booked on the TS Tour which is considered to be a package holiday and therefore should be covered by the ABTOT Bond. One of us called today and it sounded pretty positive in terms of a refund from them.
Compared with what the Bond companies have to deal with when an massive tower operator goes under, this is very small fry so I don't see why the deposits shouldn't be protected.
Give ABTOT a call tomorrow as advised on the TA website.
Thanks hughjayteens... dont know about you but I was proper looking forward to this too.
Yeah get on to ABTOT and give the administrators to bell too
This is a real shame. I have nothing but respect for the business that Ash and Alistair built out there.
This comment irks me somewhat
They don't have a valid business case if they were only solvent through not paying their tax bill...
If you know anyone that runs a business in France, you will know that NO-ONE knows the correct way to pay tax in France if you are business operator, not even tax accountants. This is why a huge amount of business in France is done off the books. It sounds like they have been caught out by something along these lines. There really IS no word for Entrepreneur in French sadly.
I really hope that the true reason is published and that those involved can re-establish themselves.
mrmichaelwright - hole in one sir!
Hi mrmichaelwright , been a while ! 🙂
MrMichaelWright he lives ! The TA holiday in Dest-X was excellent and as you say French tax law is opaque to say the least. I know two French people who just gave up trying to run their own business due to the impenetrable nature of it all and just got a normal job.
mrmichaelwright - I have to agree with you there 😉
I was surprised to get a letter from Begbies Traynor in today's post. Didn't expect anything so soon, especially in writing.
It only repeats what's on TA's website, so doesn't tell me more about Davos, which is now a worry for me and various friends booked [paid] on that event.
As per the current guidance, no refunds can yet be issued as there's still a possibility the event can somehow go ahead. But I'm really doubtful. I was really looking forward to it though 🙂
Like some others here, my flights/accommodation is paid for, so I could still just fly out and bike/camp rough for 3 days at very little extra cost. You never know, maybe there will be a group of us that end up doing this and it could be fun...
Hey Ash, certainly has. I ride mountain bikes again now! Trail addiction was on the cards for the next couple of years as now I live in Scotland I'm out on the bike 2-3 times a week and my mojo has returned with a bang.
Hi Andy, indeed i do live on!
I also got a letter yesterday, along with an email and a pdf copy of the letter!
MrsLugz has being doing some digging, and according to some success stories on Money Saving Expert, there may be a way to claim back any additional expenses incurred, such as flights and accomodation.
Not sure what we are going to do yet, been with Whiteroom for the last 3 years and had an awesome time, but we're proper tight for cash this year...
[i]Unfortunately didn't pay on cc[/I]
More fool you.
FWIW went with TA nearly 10 years ago to Les Arcs so would imagine that their tax affairs are reasonably straight as no way would they have been operating for so long - did something change?
If memory serves me well it was an English chap who worked as a Swiss train driver (for 6 months a year) that ran it.
edit Ash, just seen his name, lovely bloke 🙂
Such a shame to see the business close.