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Should they be allowed??
winds me up when you get certain folk buying stuff on one forum ad then trying to sell it at a profit on another forum.
Traders as such, should they be allowed on here or not??
yes, but they should have a tag on the log in telling us such.
like on other forums that allow traders to sell.
that way people can steer clear if they want to.
The ‘spirit’ of our forum is one where users can turn their old, surplus or unwanted kit into extra cash to enable them to buy new bits to help them get out and continue riding. The Classified Forum is not a place where users can trade parts bought elsewhere and then sold at a profit. If we suspect that a user is exploiting our forum to earn additional income or solely for the purposes of making a profit then we are very likely to consider that as ‘Trade’ activity and we’ll ask you to stop. We will look at each instance reported to us or spotted by us on a case by case basis and then we will act at our discretion.
According to the rules, no:
The Classified Forum is not a place where users can trade parts bought elsewhere and then sold at a profit
According to the last mega thread on this, most DGAF.
the thing is how do you tell if someone is trading or not??
see here .....................
This one is really taking the Michael then ........
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/where-to-find-a-kitchen-fitterbuilder-london
his one and only post was to promote his business !!
Is that against the rules though?
Dont know but I bet he doesn't own a mountain bike !!!
the lad in my link has said the he isnt a trader but likes buying and selling but not to make a profit, yet he is bragging about being able to buy a 3k bike after buying and selling over the past year???
Yeah, this winds me up a bit. I'm not a hardcore poster on here, but my primary purpose is chit-chat and advice. I have sold a couple of things to folk on here, but like to think I'm helping out the "community" rather than making a profit.
Seems a little like high-frequency trading and flow trading on financial markets. Are these guys providing liquidity? Or just sucking out bargains that the rest of us might have got?
Seems a little like high-frequency trading and flow trading on financial markets. Are these guys providing liquidity? Or just sucking out bargains that the rest of us might have got?
Not just bargains, but from selling on here for the first time in the last couple of weeks I've noticed that posts dissappear of the page incredibly quickly to those who do nothing but buy and sell on here. As a reasonably regular contributor in the main forum it is a little frustrating when these folk don't contribute otherwise.
Perhaps we need another buy/sell forum for people that actually use the chat forums?
Can't you just work it all out for yourself?
I think my brain has finally failed after being invaded by my 2yr old. I thought you said toddlers as opposed traders. Very confusing.
It happens. I took offence at someone buying a frame I wanted just to sell it on for a profit, told them as much, received some abusive emails, reported it, nowt happened. People have bought things from the guy and been happy, but it is clear that he is trading to make money and it riles me.
Maybe I'm just getting old.
No. Traders belong in a shop or on line. Classified should be more like a boot fair in my opinion.
I've got some really special magic beans, your's for a fiver, 😉
[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/for-sale-heli-tape ]Another trader, as seen on other forums.[/url]
[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/bontrager-saddle-9posted ]do you mean traders like this one![/url]
It's not as simple as it first seems though, is it?
EG - I buy a set of forks, say, for a bike which I either never end up using for whatever reason or sell on hardly used.
I sell them on ebay for double.
I've done nowt wrong. The origional seller got his price, the new buyer wasn't ripped off.
(I currently have some forks I bought off here sitting in the garage waiting. I do intend to use them, but if I need money for new plans, I'll sell them on. And I'll try and make a profit)
Taking it a step further I could buy a bike for the asking price, and either split it or add value to it by working on it, and sell it either whole or in parts for more money. I'd have done work to add value. I'd have not ripped anyone off. (I haven't actually done this but I know those that have)
I could also buy a bike for one part (Wheels, say) and split the rest to cover the cost of the bike, giving me free wheels (I have done this on an ebay bike)
Now I don't buy and sell much on here (Check if you like) but, again, I know those that do, and buy from many sources. These people have NEVER been compained about, they never rip anyone off, and I know at least one that trades as a hobby, but ploughs all the profit back into cycling, and his own bikes (and I'm talking £1000s here)
There's nothing morally wrong with any of it, but it's a grey area according to 'the rules'
I know I'd rather take my chances with an honest 'trader' who has previous form than certain other characters......
Just saying, like! 😀
The cynic in me thinks the Mods don't mind the extra page views (read: ad impressions) that the 'regular' traders provide, while browsing for things to buy and sell.
Would be interesting to see the comparison in page impressions between a 'trader' and those complaining about them...
Narks me a bit too.
I sold a Cannondale F800 frame to R7CTR for £90 who then re-advertised it a week or 2 later with a £100 mark up (Looks like he sold it 2 weeks ago for £135). I did notify the mods who did nothing as far as I can see, makes a mockery of genuine sellers and of people who genuinly NEED a bargain.
Xiphon, here you go.
[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/profile/r7ctr ]R7CTR[/url]
[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/profile/konastoner ]Konastoner[/url]
if it is allowed then there should be some obvious way of telling that they are a trader.
As it is not allowed it should be better enforced
EDIT: Having read that enforced never mind better
@konastoner - that doesn't tell me page impressions, only posts they've contributed to.
To find one 'bargain' they want to buy, they could 'view' 150+ pages.
You might only 'view' a handful of threads which interest you.
Therefore STW makes more money through advertising via R7CTR than yourself.
Hence a possible reason for turning a blind eye?
Xiphon I agree totally, it's not right though that a classified's trawler should effectively "Steal" from the wider sometimes needy community.
That is exactly what I have done in the quest of building myself a really high spec bike, which I would not be able to afford otherwise.
If you see my posts that you will not I mainly buy parts and frame, build a bike up run it for a month or so and then either upgrade it or sell as whole and build myself a newer model, if I make a few quid than it is pumped back in to bikes.
Does this make me a trader?
Does this make me a trader?
To me it makes you canny. 🙂
Nobody buys anything for more than theyre prepared to pay for it and nobody let's anything go for much mess than they're willing to accept. I dont see it makes much difference what happens in between. If you've missed a "bargain" on here ( as we all have!!) then that's bad luck for you unfortunately.
covbuggy, some of the stuff you have bought has been back onto the various fourms in well less than a month with a mark up.
I remember a yeti frame you got quite cheap on bikeradar and then sold it on pinkbike for quite a bit more as a full bike.
http://covbuggy.pinkbike.com/buysell/
from one of your ads........... "Hi, I am looking for a good condition full suss frames, any size, carbon or alu. Will be very interested in a s work stumpy or epic, trek fuel/remedy or similar.
Please let me know what you have and price."
edit...... if you already ahve a 2012 trek remedy as you pointed out in anouther thread then why do you still need to buy frames etc??
TRADER.
If there's going to be traders, they should have their own (well regulated) section.
They don't belong in classifieds, imo.
I remember a yeti frame you got quite cheap on bikeradar and then sold it on pinkbike for quite a bit more as a full bike.
Stalker?
Not really Rob.
Trader making big money on the side? you can always report them to the taxman 😈
Surely it'd be relatively straightforeward for ST to have a filter through the database once a month and see who's posted more threads in the For sale than they have posts in the main forum (or some similar search).
Obviously this would need some kind of Ton/Hora clause that allowed for serial bike swappers.
plenty of them
shouldnt be tolerated
and all the excuses from morally corrupt greed driven users fall on deaf ears.
A page and a bit and I'm still not sure why it worries people... If a trader makes a profit selling something on, what of it? The initial seller got what they asked for the product, and the second buyer paid a price they thought fair.
Disclosure, I don't buy stuff very often, and sell even less!
Stalker?
Not really Rob
That's just what a stalker would say
Look at covbuggys history on here..............
one thread in the bike forum and the rest apart from replying to 3 other threads are in the classifieds.
@ Rob Hilton
The cynic in me thinks the Mods don't mind the extra page views (read: ad impressions) that the 'regular' traders provide, while browsing for things to buy and sell
As a mod is makes no difference to me, however the classifieds exists as added extra on the forum. Traders aren't allowed as it's free advertising and trading for the, we don't like people selling items to make a quick profit either. It goes against the spirit of the community that we try to maintain here.
The problem is we can't and don't see every post so rely on people reporting, some of you do but the we have to find time to review them and do some chasing up if needed. This isn't always possible so yes you may have reported it and 'nothing' been done but that's not because we don't care. Chances are we just haven't had time to chase it up and other forum problems often take priority.
Obviously this would need some kind of Ton/Hora clause that allowed for serial bike swappers.
bastid....... 😉 i am a changed man....... 😀
The initial seller got what they asked for the product, and the second buyer paid a price they thought fair
nope, i for one was significantly haggled down with a sob story, only to see the same item on sale, on here, using my pictures and text, for significant profit.......
i dont sell much, even less since... i would rather parts rot in the shed or i just give them away through friends. This week saw me take a £60 hit on a pair of tyres, rather than run the risk of "XXXXX", whining and then profiting.
nope, i for one was significantly haggled down with a sob story, only to see the same item on sale, on here, using my pictures and text, for significant profit.......
*must try the sob story strategy in Tesco*
I really can't see the problem. If someone wants to sell at below market price so be it and if someone else buys it and sells it on at what should be the going rate then who is the injured party?
I have seen some items sold on here with no effort to clean or make serviceable then resold in a clean and serviceable condition. Again no harm done.
If you don't like it stick to eBay 😕
Drac - I've highlighted a certain traders activities to the mods and it has always been ignored. As someone already said, I suspect that the extra page impressions are all good for STW when they are attracting advertising spend. A bit like the move to 35 posts per page.....
nope, i for one was significantly haggled down with a sob story, only to see the same item on sale, on here, using my pictures and text, for significant profit.......
Wow, assuming no mitigating factors on the other chaps end, that's disgraceful.
I really can't see the problem. If someone wants to sell at below market price so be it and if someone else buys it and sells it on at what should be the going rate then who is the injured party?
I have seen some items sold on here with no effort to clean or make serviceable then resold in a clean and serviceable condition. Again no harm done.
If you don't like it stick to eBay
I thnik there's more of an expectation that people on STW are friends and therefore the classifides often opperates more at mates rates than full market prices, often people sell stuff at 15-20% less than ebay both because it's easier and you often know, or know someone that knows, or will probably meet inthe future the guy who you bought/sold to and a bit of karma goes a long way.
bastid....... i am a changed man.......
So's hora, but there's a recession on and no one else seems to have steped upto keep the bike industry going. I was always slightly bitter that you always sold big frames and Hora tiny frame, there wasn't an average habitual bike swapper on the forum!
Drac - I've highlighted a certain traders activities to the mods and it has always been ignored. As someone already said, I suspect that the extra page impressions are all good for STW when they are attracting advertising spend. A bit like the move to 35 posts per page....
Not always it hasn't trust me on this.
nope, i for one was significantly haggled down with a sob story, only to see the same item on sale, on here, using my pictures and text, for significant profit.......i dont sell much, even less since... i would rather parts rot in the shed or i just give them away through friends. This week saw me take a £60 hit on a pair of tyres, rather than run the risk of "XXXXX", whining and then profiting.
Why did you sell to him and not someone else getting the money you wanted. I sell and buy stuff on here. I sell at what it's worth unless linked to and offer for the same item. I have declined silly offers regardless of what sob story is given, it's my right to do so. I'll make and offer to a seller at what it is worth and it's up the seller to accept or decline, I can't force them to sell.
If the person hadn't resold the item and gone to pub with the money he'd saved would that make it OK, as they would still be profiting from the purchase at a reduced rate.
I thnik there's more of an expectation that people on STW are friends and therefore the classifides often opperates more at mates rates than full market prices,
I'd say that would have been true 5-6 years ago, but things have maved on a bit. You still should be able to work out who you consider a regular and a [i]mate[/i], so the same still stands. Use your brains a bit.
ive sold a camper van dropper post, pair of wheels and 2 bikes over the last couple of weeks. The couple that bought the van were super cool and stoked to buy it.
Its been awesome getting emails from the guys who bought the post and wheels how much they like them, makes me feel good. One buyer of a bike sounds super excited about it, only posted yesterday!
However, I sold another last night and I felt a bit miffed when I found out the guy who bought it runs a website selling on second hand bike parts so the bike I spent (well actually g/f as its hers) cleaning, making look nice, setting up etc... is now going to be stripped apart for a profit. Now obviously I got the money I very much needed and wanted but it just doesnt feel right, its nice selling things to a good home.
I sould like a bit of a dealer myself doing all the selling, i've just bought my first home to various extra's have had to go 🙁
I thnik there's more of an expectation that people on STW are friends and therefore the classifides often opperates more at mates rates than full market prices, often people sell stuff at 15-20% less than ebay both because it's easier and you often know, or know someone that knows, or will probably meet inthe future the guy who you bought/sold to and a bit of karma goes a long way.
I understand that but at the same time the seller shouldn't be paying for someone else's hobby by given large discounts. I'm all for the community aspect of it and send bits I have no use for free of charge so long as the other person wanting those items pays postage. As for ebay it's not 15-20% less as that is what they are taking in fees. Selling on here just bypasses those charges and sells to someone, who like you say, you may meet in the future.
people see it differently criagxxl, i did a nice thing for someone and was treated like a c***
wont happen again
to put the ball back in your court. Those bits you give away, for postage..... are you happy to just send them to me, so i can charge a few pence less than the CRC listed price, days later?
depends are you a poor student who needs the money to pay for books 😉
@rob, well pointed out Yep Renton is a stalker.
I rest my case with the Yeti. Yes I bough the frame for £210 and build it up to a decent spec fox, mavic, avid, xt etc. the frame was large and the geometry did do suit me. I could have stripped it and bough another frame but decided on selling the bike as a whole - was sold for £780 in the end on bikeradar. Way below the value I could have sold it on eBay.
Also if anyone has build a bike would know that the cost of the frame and the components did not leave much change from the selling price. Sold and moved on to try something else - how does this make me a trader?
Yes I have a 2012 trek remedy 9 and am looking to build a second bike - for which I have been buying parts slowly, hopefully will find the right frame. Again what is wrong with that, I am not allowed to own a second bike.
Also @renton just looked at your post - trying to sell a Thomson seat post at a bargain price of £40!!! and then getting annoyed if other are buying or selling too much!
soobalias - Member
people see it differently criagxxl, i did a nice thing for someone and was treated like a c***wont happen again
to put the ball back in your court. Those bits you give away, for postage..... are you happy to just send them to me, so i can charge a few pence less than the CRC listed price, days later?
If I couldn't be bothered to sell it and the other person could then that is fine with me.
I questioned a seller on here and got this reply.
No I am not a trader but build ,buy and strip bikes as a bit of a hobby.Semi-retired now and it keeps me out of trouble.
[s]looking [/s] stalking his selling history hes bought/sold a huge amount of bikes/parts,IMHO this goes way beyond a "hobby" and verging on a trader.
I pay SCANT regard to that sort of reply.
how does eh get away with it? scant that is!
However, I sold another last night and I felt a bit miffed when I found out the guy who bought it runs a website selling on second hand bike parts so the bike I spent (well actually g/f as its hers) cleaning, making look nice, setting up etc... is now going to be stripped apart for a profit. Now obviously I got the money I very much needed and wanted but it just doesnt feel right, its nice selling things to a good home.
Well, you could easily have stripped it and made more money yourself, yes? So why didn't you?
You didn't really need a huge amount for it?
Couldn't be bothered?
There are many, many serial bike/component strippers around. I can think of 5 or 6 people I know off the top of my head. Not all of us have the money so spend out on expensive stuff but by canny buying and selling (and being a good mechanic!!) we can have a great bike for little or in many cases no outlay. I have a set of Lyriks that cost me £30 but I'd be a pillock to let them go for under £200..... There's a pair of wheels on Mrs PPs commuter that owe me about £20. I could sell them for £50 and the buyer would be amazed at the price. I have DT Swiss 240/Mavic 717 wheels on my bike that I built up from used parts and Internet offers that I'd struggle to NOT make £100 on if I sold them.... All of that and more.
To me it's part of the game. Some like to spend thousands on top kit, to me it's a game to spend as little as possible and a bit of canny buying and selling is fun and profitable 🙂
Also @renton just looked at your post - trying to sell a Thomson seat post at a bargain price of £40!!! and then getting annoyed if other are buying or selling too much!
erm , I went through previous for sale threads for the same thing and matched my price to that, as it happens it didnt sell for that but I sold it to a lad from here last night for £30 posted.??
if you are looking to buy a second bike then why in your ad do you say you are after frames and not just a frame??
If you are not a trader then how come you have no input on the other sections of the forum apart from the classifieds?? oh hold on you have one thread about a seatpost.......
As for ebay it's not 15-20% less as that is what they are taking in fees.
That's what I meant to say (but my mind wandered down a tangent mid sentance), stuff usually sells for the ebay price minus fees, on the basis/expectation that the seller got his price and the buyer got a bargain, I'm annoyed if I do that and then the same components appear again a few days/weeks later at the top price
I agree, the traders should be shot.
They could spend all day scouring the classifieds and picking up all the bargains, only to sell them on at a profit. This is a business, they should be taxed.
I bet they never make any donations to STW world either.
Sometime soon Im going to scam one of the little ****ers, I'll donate the money to STW. I'll be a modern day Robin Hood, everyone loves him. Morally, Im in the right.
All depends on the definition of a trader.
If you buy and sell bike parts as a key form of income, i.e. your main job or to heavily supplement existing wage/benefits, then I'd say that person's profile should carry a "trader" tag. After all, they're a 'trader'.
If you buy and sell the odd bit of kit because you have a higher turnover of parts than average, then fine. Sometimes you'll make a few quid, sometimes not. No issue here.
I agree, the traders should be shot.They could spend all day scouring the classifieds and picking up all the bargains, only to sell them on at a profit. This is a business, they should be taxed.
I bet they never make any donations to STW world either.
Sometime soon Im going to scam one of the little ****, I'll donate the money to STW. I'll be a modern day Robin Hood, everyone loves him. Morally, Im in the right.
+1 hear hear!
As Drac says, we don't have time to look closely at the full history for every reported trader. If it does look suspiciously like they're trading for a profit, rather than just clearing out a shed, then their account will often be suspended until we get them to explain themselves.
However, just like where we say that we don't have time to look into individual disputes: 'I bought some forks and they were scratched and now he won't give me my money back' kind of scenarios, so we don't have time to spend trawling through posting history. Obviously if everyone paid us a 2% commission on everything they sold, then we'd be able to follow this kind of thing up, but they don't. One solution would be to charge for the Classifieds, but then that's unfair on the occasional users who use them to shift a seat post now and again. Or perhaps we make a Premier Classifieds? That would take some work, but might work.
Suggestions always welcome 🙂
By email though - I don't get time to look at the forum more than once a week...