[Closed] Towbar Rack - what's the recommendation for 4 bikes

The Thule Velocompact has been brilliant for me.

It's a three bike rack but you can fit an extra rail to take a fourth bike. They're not cheap but they're good quailty

I bought mine on the Cycle to Work scheme which knocked the price down a good bit.

Thule Euro something here.
Bought secondhand, it's now 6 years in of twice weekly use, trips to France and more.
I've worn out a couple of arm mechanisms, but being Thule you can buy replacements.
Look on Gumtree or FB marketplace - they often come up for sale.

Make sure the car can take the weight of 4 bikes and the carrier.

Someone I used to work with had a car with a 50kg limit on the tow bar, which put the 3 (cheap) bikes and the carrier very close to the limit.

Altera strada dl. Better tilt than a thule, if you might ever go back to a van

Or take a look at the Buzzrack Quattro for something that works, is good value for money, has better functionality in terms of bike loading and unloading, but not as good tilting as the Thule or Altera. It's heavier so might be ruled out due to weight limitations. I used it with my SMax that had an 80kg weight limit. The rack was 20kg's so only left you with 60kg's for bike weight. Fine for family bikes assuming lighter kids bikes, but if you want to carry 4 big MTB's then you might struggle for weight limitation.

Think about what you want from a carrier. Do you want it to tilt? Do you want it to be light weight and easily stored or do you want it to be big and chunky? Do you want it to be fairly compact or give you lots of space between bikes? (Somebody on here was raving on about their rack, but said that they had to take the pedals off to get the bikes on - a bit of a problem if you use it frequently.) There's quite a price range as well. Lots of people like their Thules but some of the fittings can melt if they are close to an exhaust pipe.

roofbox.co.uk have a good selection..........

50kg limit on the tow bar

Also bear in mind that the limit on the tow bar for bikes will be lower than the limit for trailer nose weight, because the weight on the rack is maybe 0.6m behind the towball so puts more leverage on the towbar. Focus Estate, for example, is rated 90kg on the towball but max 3 bikes.

I agree with the leverage problem re nose weight. Has anyone got a reliable way to do the leverage calc?

I estimated using distance from rear "axle" to tow ball * nose weight. To get a leverage figure for a point load (i.e. trailer)

I then did

total weight of the carrier + bikes * distance from rear axle to centre of carrier

My assumptions being that

1) it's the leverage applied to the car body pivoting around the centre of the rear wheels (which for the above I've called the axle even though most fwd cars don't have a physical axle there).

2) the centre of mass of the carrier when loaded is in its middle (although in practice it is probably slightly nearer the tow ball end).

When I did that for our Passat (sizing up roof bars Vs tow bar) for four bikes and 17kg of rack came in equivalent to a few kg inside the 90kg nose weight of the car. I ended up getting roof bars as it was well within on those and more transferable.

Anyone know better/have a different view of how it should be done?

Interesting about the Focus Estate being 90kg - the current Grand Tourneo Connect (which I understand is on a Focus platform) seems to be only 75kg and the petrol hatch we have is only 75kg too.

The altera 4th rail comes with some straps you're meant to hook over the top of the boot hinge (ala a strap on rack) to help take the load when you're carrying 4 bikes.

Youd think someone could make a rack with a 5th castor wheel on it, so the side to side was still controlled by the car (so easy to steer etc) but the majority of the weight and the up down movement was held by the rack..

Anyone know better/have a different view of how it should be done?

I would go with the manufacturer's recommendation, if they have one. If not, I'd look at the leverage from the towbar fixings.

Interesting about the Focus Estate being 90kg

I'll check that. I read it recently but couldn't find the source when I posted.

Thanks all.... I think the Skoda Superb has a 100kg nose weight, but as mentioned the cantilever will reduce that. With growing boys, it won't be long before its 4 adult bikes!

Going back to a van in unlikely.... for environmental reasons we're going to be a 1 vehicle family, and my work needs a car.

We have an Octavia estate, detachable towball and use an Atera Strada DL 3+1. It slides away from the boot for easy access. Easy to get on and off. Like all of them, takes practice to get pedals and bars aligned/twisted.

Nose weight on the Octavia is 75kg. The rack is about 15kg. So that leaves us about 15kg per bike to play with. You know when there's 4 back there!

@sheeps at 100kg I would guess you should be ok on 4 (check manual for anything specific but my 2012 car it just says adjust for the fact there's more leverage).

We have a VW Tiguan with factory swivel towbar, owners manual states 100kg nose weight but 75kg if using bike rack. We use a witter zx504 it’s a full 4 bike rack not a 3 rack with an extension fitted for wheels but bike 4 top tube is linked to bike 3 top tube. takes 4 road bikes easily but requires a wee bit of thought with 4 big mtb to prevent fork/seat chain stays rubbing. Electrics come with 7 and 13 pin fitted

Also bear in mind that the limit on the tow bar for bikes will be lower than the limit for trailer nose weight, because the weight on the rack is maybe 0.6m behind the towball so puts more leverage on the towbar. Focus Estate, for example, is rated 90kg on the towball but max 3 bikes.

Spot on observation there. My car has a 250 kg trailer nose weight limit, but only 55 kg for a bike rack. Quite some difference!

As for bike racks, I have a Whispbar 3+1 from Roofbox which I'm pretty happy with on the whole. Ideally I would prefer wheel only fixings, but I couldn't find any of that type in the uk

You might find that is a 250kg towing limit. A 250kg nose weight limit is MASSIVE.

A 250kg nose weight limit is MASSIVE.

Agreed. That's big pickup/commercial territory.

I have a Buzz Rack Easy 4 sat in the garage doing nothing after being used for one 2 week touring hol in France. Drop me a DM if you’re thinking of looking for a second hand rack.
RM.

Spot on observation there. My car has a 250 kg trailer nose weight limit, but only 55 kg for a bike rack. Quite some difference

At least you don’t have a heavy number plate to add to the weight ...😂

You might find that is a 250kg towing limit.

Nope, that's far too low. Mine has 1800kg towing limit.

You might find that is a 250kg towing limit. A 250kg nose weight limit is MASSIVE.

LOL no. Towing limit is 5000 kg. Nose/tongue limit 250 kg, accessory/bike rack load 55 kg. As others have said, it's all about the torque these racks put on the frame mounting.

At least you don’t have a heavy number plate to add to the weight …😂

Well spotted, lol. I did fit a number plate before using it. That pic was taken when I first tried it on the car with a couple of bikes.

A saloon car with a 5000kg towing weight???

EDIT if that's a Model X then it's 5000 POUNDS not kg. Guessing you've made the same mistake with the nose weight too, 120kg nose weight and 2300kg towing is is about right for an SUV.

Double check you haven't also made the same mistake with bike racks as you've exceeded 55lbs there.

^
Yep, my xlwb Vito with a payload upgrade can only tow under 3000kg

For 4 bikes on a Superb, I'd go roof mounted unless you have e-bikes in the mix.

Is there a preferred tow bar type for bike racks? I'm looking at getting one fitted to my MK5 Golf and I can see that there are a couple of different styles (swan neck/flange etc). Is one more preferable to another? I would only be using it for a bike rack, no other towing jobs.

A saloon car with a 5000kg towing weight???

EDIT if that’s a Model X then it’s 5000 POUNDS not kg. Guessing you’ve made the same mistake with the nose weight too, 120kg nose weight and 2300kg towing is is about right for an SUV.

Double check you haven’t also made the same mistake with bike racks as you’ve exceeded 55lbs there.

Sorry, yes towing weight is 5000 lbs (I was in a hurry posting), but the other limits I quoted were correct. Just to clarify with the precise figures:-

Towing limit: 5000 lbs (2268 kg)
Nose/Tongue weight limit: 500 lbs (227 kg)
Accessory/bike rack limit: 120 lbs (54 kg)

The point is that you do have to check your specific accessory rack limit, which will likely be signficantly lower than the trailer nose weight limit. I would imagine a lot of car towbars are very marginal for carrying 4x large mountain bikes.

Interesting about the Focus Estate being 90kg – the current Grand Tourneo Connect (which I understand is on a Focus platform) seems to be only 75kg and the petrol hatch we have is only 75kg too.

Found the reference, in the manual that came with the car - it's 75kg for the hatchback and 90kg for the Estate.

Presumably the recomended nose weight assumes just a driver in the car. If you have a driver and passengers in the car the effect of the weight on the tow bar will be less. (Not suggesting that anybody tries this but just thinking about the theory)

Found the reference, in the manual that came with the car – it’s 75kg for the hatchback and 90kg for the Estate.

But is that the limit for bike racks too or just the trailer nose weight? They are not the same thing.

Sorry, yes towing weight is 5000 lbs (I was in a hurry posting), but the other limits I quoted were correct. Just to clarify with the precise figures:-

Towing limit: 5000 lbs (2268 kg)
Nose/Tongue weight limit: 500 lbs (227 kg)
Accessory/bike rack limit: 120 lbs (54 kg)

Interesting the nose weight is so high on the Model X. Is that because it self-levels, means it can take more before the front wheels lift 🤔 My big 4x4 has self-levelling too, is about the same weight as a Model X and can take 150kg on the nose.

I've got a BUZZ RACK BB4, get on with it fine. Just need to load the car before fitting as it doesnt tilt, but can always pass things over the back seats and plan for it.

As for the weights, never checked, use with a 2013 Passat Estate, but with 2 kids bikes at the moment.

Is that because it self-levels, means it can take more before the front wheels lift?

Self levelling presumably just adjusts the suspension rather than shifting any weight around, so I wouldn't expect it make any real difference on that front. Of course, adjusting the suspension does mean that you won't be driving around on the rear bump stops, so that may be part of it.

Still surprising that the difference for nose weight vs bike rack weight is so big for the Tesla.

But is that the limit for bike racks too or just the trailer nose weight? They are not the same thing.

Indeed they are not, and that's what my original post said, I was just following up a question re 90kg. There's no weight specified for bikes, just '3 bike rack' maximum, and that's less than 90kg.

If you have a driver and passengers in the car the effect of the weight on the tow bar will be less.

Eh? The bar and its frame and the bolts that hold it in still have to hold up the noseweight regardless of how many people are in the car...

Is that because it self-levels, means it can take more before the front wheels lift

Wouldn't have thought so. Self-levelling is not that rare so it wouldn't explain such a high noseweight. Also, it's probably not down to the suspension as you can put 600kg in my car which would affect the rear suspension significantly more than 85kg of nose weight I think, even if it is a bit further forward.

The bar and its frame and the bolts that hold it in still have to hold up the noseweight regardless of how many people are in the car

Yes, but if the concern is the effect on handling due to too little weight on the front wheels then adding a front seat passenger will help a bit.

@moshimonster
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<div>How is the Whispbar rack? It looks like I'm coming to the end of the life of my current Atera Strada and have been thinking about the Whispbar as a replacement as I keep wearing out the clamp on Ateras.</div>
</div>

How is the Whispbar rack?

It's faultless for this type of rack. Super easy to fit/remove in seconds. Tilts right out of the way of any hatch. Quality is top notch. Bike spacing is fine for big full suss trail bikes with wide bars, but can be close. It does require a bit of thought when attaching the quick release arms to the bike frame, but that's the same story for all these tray type racks. For this reason I do prefer the front & rear tyre holders (no frame fixing) on my INNO roof carrier, but I couldn't find anything like that on a UK towbar rack - although I have seen towbar racks with those in the US.

Interesting the nose weight is so high on the Model X. Is that because it self-levels, means it can take more before the front wheels lift 🤔 My big 4×4 has self-levelling too, is about the same weight as a Model X and can take 150kg on the nose.

It does self-level on air suspension. Kerb weight is around 2300 kg (75 kWh battery) with pretty much 50/50 weight distribution. CofG is also extremely low due to the battery. So that could be a factor.

Still surprising that the difference for nose weight vs bike rack weight is so big for the Tesla.

Exactly, that's why I mentioned it. I think it's the same story for most other cars too, it's just that they often don't specify maximum overhung rack weights quite so clearly and people just make the assumption it would be similar to the nose weight figure. I'm sure the Tesla figure is very conservative as I've seen loads of fully loaded bike racks on them and nobody has reported any failures. But I'm okay as I can stay just within the specified limit with 2 adult mtbs and 2 kid's bikes (just).

@ RogerMoore - I could be interested in the Eazzy 4 rack if OP isn't.

New car has detachable towball so my (ancient) Pendle (two bolt bracket) won't fit. And as it's ancient and has lived outside a lot it's pretty much dead.

Whereabouts are you based?

How is the Whispbar rack?

Another vote for Whispbar here. Brilliantly quick to fit and load(once you’ve worked out the best configuration - but that’s the same for any rack). Very high quality.

Although it's only a 2 (+1) rack, I'm fairly settled on the Atera Genio pro - really not keen on the 'open clamp' style holders on the Thule/Whispbar racks, with carbon bikes. The Atera racks have a ratchet strap with rubber inserts which go completely around the frame, so shouldn't need to be done up mega tight to hold the bikes.

Just bought a Buzzrack BB4 for about £150 from probikekit after finding a 10% code. Not used yet though but will be later this week.

Regarding nose weight, our car is rated to 75kg, but are we saying that it will definitely be less if used for a bike rack? If so, ball park how much are we taking? The manual doesn’t say anything about bike racks. The rack is 17kg, our two MTBs are about 27kg and then got two kids bike an orbea Mx 24 and an islabike beinn 20. Probably another 22kg there? So maybe 66kg all in?

Regarding nose weight, our car is rated to 75kg, but are we saying that it will definitely be less if used for a bike rack? If so, ball park how much are we taking? The manual doesn’t say anything about bike racks. The rack is 17kg, our two MTBs are about 27kg and then got two kids bike an orbea Mx 24 and an islabike beinn 20. Probably another 22kg there? So maybe 66kg all in?

I would say you are almost certainly overloaded, at least in theory. The 75 kg nose weight means nothing really as my example above shows. How much it actually reduces is also anyone's guess if there is no manufacturer guidance. Some manufacturers state vague things like "max 2 bikes", others give precise rack weight limits and others appear to say nothing at all. You might want to speak with your dealer or contact the manufacturer direct for an answer.

really not keen on the ‘open clamp’ style holders on the Thule/Whispbar racks, with carbon bikes

I use a Thule rubber frame protector on my carbon bikes with the Whispbar clamps. I also only fit the clamp so the open side is pointing sideways around the seat tube rather than up or down on the top tube where it could potentially be bumped off the frame over rough ground. I see what you mean about the closed clamps being foolproof, but I wouldn't want them loose enough to potentially move and rub on the frame either. It's a shame nobody in the UK seems to make a tyre only rack fixing as it makes life so much easier when fitting multiple bikes. These are relatively common in the US.

Edit: Looking closely at the Whispbar clamps, they actually have a little tab sticking out on the open end to prevent them from coming off the frame. So it's really not an issue unless they were extremely loose.

I'm a perennial lurker and an infrequent poster but.... I love this place.

Thank you for all the replies, plenty of food for thought, and a second hand rack into the bargain.

From our Kodiaq’s manual (another MQB platform vehicle). They’ve not updated the superb one with this info yet.

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From a 2017 Skoda Superb Manual:

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Great charts from Skoda there.

A lot of the 4 bike racks are around 75-80 cm so you'd expect the centre of gravity/mass to be somewhere between 35 and 40cm from the ball.

Assuming they're a little bit weighted towards the front of the rack due to weight of the clamping mechanism etc. and that you'd load heaviest bike nearest the boot probably nearer the 35cm than the 40cm).

I've just put those into a chart in Excel to see what the curve looks like. What's particularly noteworthy is the way the weights drop off very sharply just after 30cm to 60cm. If it's roughly linear across that range then you're down to 68kg at 35cm and 61kg at 40cm (crosses fingers that has done late night maths right). That's alright if you're on light road or XC bikes but not brilliant if you're carrying 4 decent sized beefy MTBs.

EDIT - this isn't a definitive view so don't blame me if you get in trouble with the fuzz - I'm trying to work this out for myself as part of our (still) ongoing what lifestyle vehicle for four bikes, two kayaks and a massive load of camping kit debate at home!

That’s really helpful. The buzzrack bb4 I’ve just got is 93cm depth. I’ve also just searched in more detail for the weights of the rack and our bikes and now think my total is a bit lower at around 61kg. If I take the COG to be about 40cm from the ball (with more of the weight towards the car by loading the adult bikes nearest), then it’s looking right on the limit!

I've got a Buzzrack buzzwing 4 which extends a fair way back from the ball as above (94cm).  I've been wary of loading it up, certainly not 4 adult bikes and if it does have 4 on it, then it's 2 x adult bikes and 2 x kids bikes with the heaviest closest to the car.  Looking at that chart above I will be exceeding the weight limit when taking COG into account, something I hadn't really considered (beyond simple leverage concerns, but asssuming it would have been taken into account).  Looks like a support strap might be a good idea - anyone know a supplier?

I'm not sure if the support straps solve the issue. I don't think the primary concern is breaking the tow bar off, but the impact on handling, which straps won't help with.

My car (Audi A6) has something similar to the Skoda above in the manual, although it starts at 85kg, but reduces with any distance from the towbar.

I’ve just put those into a chart in Excel to see what the curve looks like. What’s particularly noteworthy is the way the weights drop off very sharply just after 30cm to 60cm. If it’s roughly linear across that range then you’re down to 68kg at 35cm and 61kg at 40cm (crosses fingers that has done late night maths right). That’s alright if you’re on light road or XC bikes but not brilliant if you’re carrying 4 decent sized beefy MTBs.

I wouldn't read too much into the shape of that graph. From 0-30 cm they are basically just eating into the safety factor as the maximum allowed load is identical, but there is more leverage at 30 cm. Then they have decided on an arbitrary point (60 cm) to basically halve the allowable load and then imposed a maximum limit at 70 cm. Although it's not a very useful limit as you are allowed to carry 0 kg there if you take the graph literally! Personally, as a mechanical engineer, I would take that 35 kg limit to extend out to the 70 cm limit. I think that's what they almost certainly intended. If it can safely carry 35 kg at 60 cm, it can definitely cope with more than 0 kg at 70 cm.

I’m not sure if the support straps solve the issue. I don’t think the primary concern is breaking the tow bar off, but the impact on handling, which straps won’t help with.

"risk of damage to the towing device" is what Skoda are saying.

“risk of damage to the towing device” is what Skoda are saying.

What is the towing device?...Is it the car, the towbar or the bike carrier?

What is the towing device?…Is it the car, the towbar or the bike carrier?

I would take it to mean the towbar installation in general i.e. bar + mounting points on car. Bike carriers have their own load limits, think mine is 60 kg.