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Have dropped handlebars and/or some bizarre frame shape? (Like the Salsa I saw today. Odd thing it was)
We go touring pretty much every year now. I'd love to be able to buy a touring bike to suit my needs off the peg, but nobody makes one. It's not a problem, I can and have built our own, but are we the only people with these requirements:
HYDRAULIC disc brakes. Good ones. I tow a trailer full of camping gear. Vee brakes, I know from scary experience, are woefully inadequate to stop me in the wet. This alone rules out drop bars as cable discs are pretty poor with road levers (I've set plenty of them up...) and the hydraulic road stuff is to expensive and lacks power anyway.
LOW gears. 22t granny ring. We're not rushing but we don't like pushing! I'm talking full MTB gearing. Not a road triple. 9sp is perfectly adequate and nice and cheap these days
Full rack AND mudguard mounts. Obviously. But you try mounting mudguards on a 440mm A to C fork. You have to make a bracket for it. And these forks don't have low rider mounts either, not that we use them but a touring bike should have them.
25.4mm handlebars. OS isn't necessary. Thinner is comfier and gives more space to screw stuff to.
TOUGH. Road based frames and wheels can go all wobbly when you whack 150kg of rider and luggage/trailer on them.
Both our touring bikes are 26in wheeled MTBS with 1.5 slicks, short upright stems, rigid steel forks, racks, 'guards etc. but I've had to faff with both to set them up. Making brackets for stuff, drilling holes in frames etc.
The closest bike I can find at a reasonable price is a Ridgeback X3. But that'll need the gearing lowering and a bracket made for the front mudguard.
Not really bothered TBH, but I find it odd, with all these different diverse bikes around that, as far as I can find, nobody makes an MTB based tourer. It's not rocket science, and surely there's not just me that wants one?
Look abroad - especially Germany. It's a weird trait of the UK/USA that all touring bikes have drop bars.
e.g. http://www.en.tout-terrain.de/bicycles/silkroad/
http://www.koga.com/koga_uk/?bike=true&r=46991#4
Proper touring is a small market so very few companies enter it.
What you are talking about is even more specialised so it's hardly surprising you can't get a bike off the peg.
Because for many peoples road touring it make sense.
P.S. Just buy a steel mtb frame and get braze ons added for what you want.
Yeah, they have some decent kit there. Thanks. 🙂 no prices though....
I quite like their trailer, but I've just ordered a Topeak Journey to replace our ageing EBC one....
you have been looking at my LHT, you sneaky sausage..... 😆
I have to say some of your complaints are wrong headed to me. Drop bars are brilliant on a tourer, lots of hand positions and the ability to hunker down out of a Hebridean head wind.
As for brakes, you're either using a crap bike shop to set them up, or you're a crap mechanic yourself. BB7's or Vees might need a wee tinker every few days, but I rate well set up BB7s as the ultimate touring brake....no fluid to boil. On a touring tandem, red hot, no worries.
You're doing it wrong, probably a lack of skill.
P.S. Just buy a steel mtb frame and get braze ons added.
I just drilled holes in my Inbred!
Proper touring is a small market so very few companies enter it.
True. So what about fat bikes then? They sell on image. Virtually nobody needs one, and they're pigs to ride on normal terrain but everyone and his dog has one now! 😉
[quote=PeterPoddy ]what about fat bikes then? ............ they're pigs to ride on normal terrainReally?
Now, I like this...
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Nothing in the Thorn range that's suitable?
I have to say some of your basic assumptions are tosh to me. Drop bars are brilliant on a tourer, lots of hand positions and the ability to hunker down out of a Hebridean head wind.As for brakes, you're either using a crap bike shop to set them up, or you're a crap mechanic yourself. BB7's or Vees might need a wee tinker every few days, but I rate well set up BB7s as the ultimate touring brake....no fluid to boil. On a touring tandem, red hot, no worries.
You're doing it wrong, probably a lack of skill.
Chill dude. 🙂
I never said there was anything wrong with drops. I just prefer risers. I find them more practical, especially if we do a short off road section, which we do most tours, and I find one hand position perfectly adequate.
And I agree, BB7s are OK with MTB levers, but i don't like the soft feel they give with road levers. For the record I think Hayes or Shimano work better with road levers. I've PDI'd and serviced enough of all those makes to know which I prefer.... And I prefer Depre hydraulics over any of them. 🙂
PeterPoddy » what about fat bikes then? ............ they're pigs to ride on normal terrain
Really?
Yup. Borrowed one once. One of only 2 bikes I've ever ridden I couldn't WAIT to give back to its owner. It was the Surley one. Dreadful. But never mind that, we all make mistakes, eh? 😉
Now, I like this
Yeah, it's nice. I can't find the prices though. Anyway. It's bedtime now. Nighty night all. 🙂
PP, did a wee edit to tone it down as you copied that! Still disagree with most of your rant, I have a fine bike with BB7's on Tiagra drops, amazing braking.
I think my Disk trucker ticks all your boxes.
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admittedly its not off the shelf, but i did build a mountain bike up onto the frameset. Hydraulic brakes, 22t granny ring (added a 36t middle and 48t big ring), Hope bulb hubs on mine, more mounts than i know what to do with, none of which conflict with the brake calipers. BB is the lowest i have ever known so super stable and to top it off you can have either 26", or 700c on nearly all sizes. Oh and my 700cc fits something stupid like 42c tyres should you want them.
The only thing I have seen that is close is the Dawes Karokoram ... edit: no discs on this or thorn, balls... Do sjs/thorn not offer options for flat bars? Although their obsession with 26" wheels mean farm gate shaped bikes from what i recall.
I thought about building a 29r inbred touring bike but it would need some braze ons for rack and guards as I reckon the rack bolt holes are too close to the skewer/dropout for many racks and our follow me. Same problem on my 456.
For touring I think I would like something like butterfly or Jones loop bars over drops OR something like the wood chippers. Main thing for me would just be running a full mtb drive train with lack of compatibility issues.
"This alone rules out drop bars as cable discs are pretty poor with road levers (I've set plenty of them up...)"
perhaps an obvious question but i have to ask: you HAVE been using road specific calipers have you not? the pull different amount of cable from the mtb ones. In my experience they are SAVAGELY powerful, even the road ones.
Garage dweller. My Slotty inbred (from which i built the surly) was fine on the rack mounts. Whats more, the dropout was a plain steel plate, so i would have NO problems with sticking some more holes through it to add mounts should i have wanted guards.
Only changed it because it was too small for me for road use.
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its a 26" wheel inbred, with 700s in btw.
I got board reading this thread, but here is a nice pic of my touring bike on gravel grinder mode 😉
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cable discs are pretty poor with road levers (I've set plenty of them up...)
Incorrect.
Having recently bought a CX bike and speaking to other CX riders, it seems that no one ever rides on the drops. It's either on the tops or the hoods.
You could saw the last 200mm off any pair of drops and the rider wouldn't even notice it was gone.
I'm building a sort of CX/MTB/Touring tandem at the moment.
I did consider drops, but flat bars and bar ends gives just as many hand positions, plus the option to use hydraulic discs and a Rohloff shifter.
[quote=MidlandTrailquestsGraham ]Having recently bought a CX bike and speaking to other CX riders, it seems that no one ever rides on the drops.This is a thread on touring bikes, not CX bikes.
Well I use the drops on my bikes but no it isn't the primary position. I can't understand wanting flat bars on a tourer they are so non-aerodynamic and offer very few positions I like to move my hands around.
As for gears complaint just fit a big cassette or use a mtb chainset, neither are a big deal.
Sometimes it's better just to get on with it ,rather than faff about looking for perfection .Do enough touring and you soon find out what works for you.
Plus 1 for the surly lht with xt 3x9, flat bars ad bar ends, mudguards and racks
2 of them survived Africa and more
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Pretty much everything the OP said made sense to me there. I'm currently using a Surly Troll, which I love but fails to tick the 'off the peg box' (frame only in this country as far as I know) and they need a fair bit of bodging if you want to be mounting mudguards.
The BB7s I've found to be adequate but not great. Might be improved by some better cables and outers perhaps. Also, prolonged braking using road levers if never going to be as good as a mountain bike brake level - the pull is in the wrong direction.
My first effort was an Inbred 29er - actually pretty good but too big for me.
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The Vaya is much better overall, except on rough stuff. I can't decide whether to change to with flat/trekking bars as I rarely use the drops, but they can be useful in a proper headwind.
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Look abroad - especially Germany.
That was my exact thought when I was reading the OP.
The description sounded like every German touring bike I've ever seen.
Just stick some hydraulic brakes on this?
Even got mounts on the forks for lowriders.
If you don't think bb7s are any good (I think they are brilliant) then buy some of these
https://www.trpbrakes.com/category.php?productid=1198&catid=206
They work with normal drop bars, the cable attaches to the caliper which is hydraulic.
It seems a lot of the requirements there are related to wanting to tour off-road, which as mentioned is a niche within a niche. I've never really done much touring on a single, but plenty on a tandem - ours is set up with Vs and a 26 smallest chainring (actually mostly used with a 12-27 cassette), and have never wanted more braking or lower gears for road use. To be fair it does have 26" wheels.
I'm using some MTB BB7's at the moment with Avid Single digit levers and there bloody great,good feel and modulation,
however the same brakes with some Tektro Dropbar levers(RL520) still worked well but the lever feel was soft just like PP commented on earlier and no amount of adjustment would get rid of the soft feeling.
I suppose its subjective ,soft too one person may feel fine to the next.
Are those having problems with bb7's using mountain calipers with drop levers?
Just I was thinking of putting drop bars on my altitude adventure, and getting some of those versa drop levers for the alfine gear change, and I had read that you need the road bb7 calipers with them.
So I think the road and mtb calipers may not have the same pull ratios. I was going to email avid to clarify, but haven't got round to it yet.
[quote=MSP ]So I think the road and mtb calipers may not have the same pull ratios.
They don't, because road levers pull far less cable than MTB ones do. Why else would they make 2 different versions?
PP is there any reason a 29er mtb isn't suitable? I'm pretty sure I found some steel frames with mudguard/rack mounts when looking previously.
They don't, because road levers pull far less cable than MTB ones do. Why else would they make 2 different versions?
That is what I thought, although I did consider that the road version might just be a lighter less robust version. But it is why I also wondered if those having problems were using road levers with MTB calipers.
Reading this thread with some interest as I've been building an LHT for a few years now! Tried a multitude of stems and drops, but recently went to flats with barends and it hasn't been better! I'm using canti brakes which when set up correctly provide plenty stopping power, but then I don't have a disk trucker frame.
Olly.... You mentioned sticking 22-36-48 rings on your LHT. Any problems? Have an lx touring chainset 26-36-48 but my knees would appreciate a 22t Granny.
Off the peg is boring! Much more fun to BIY!
Bout to post a PSA if anyone interested in Blackburn Lowrider rack?
EDIT : wollyhat had the FL1 on eBay for £10.34 free postage, but now up to £14.99...Got in there just in time!
One more point to consider is that many steel road forks are not adequately engineered to handle a disk brake (though it can be done, of course). I find straight bars a bit wearing for a long road tour, though perhaps some funky bar ends would help.
When I was commuting on road I found in board mounted bar ends pretty useful on flat bars especially when riding into headwinds.
I have gone down this route with a Kaffenback. I transfered all parts from an MTB so it has full xt and tough 26" wheels. I would not use Kaffenback forks again however I would look at a Surley or other alternative as the wheels twist in the fork under heavy breaking which is annoying. Also there are no fork mounts for panniers but that is not an issue for my touring to date.
Poor phone picture!
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I use flat bars with bar ends and flat pedals, I regularly ride up to 75 miles and this is really comfy. I have never managed to set up a drop bar bike for long distances I always get a bad back.
How about something like this:
http://pinnacle-bikes.co.uk/city-and-leisure/pinnacle-lithium-4-2014-hybrid-bike
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Seems to tick most of your boxes, I think, apart from perhaps the OS bars. Doesn't say in the spec what size they are , but OS now seems standard.
jp-t853 - Member
I would not use Kaffenback forks again however I would look at a Surley or other alternative as the wheels twist in the fork under heavy breaking which is annoying.
Really? you had to correct the steering?
I went: Kaffenbak winter roadie bodged up to rigid 26" Inbred singlespeed to Surly Ogre (29).
The Inbred and now the Surly Ogre are my only MTB as well as my tourer. For the surly I've now built up 2 wheelsets. Upto now we have only ever toured with the children: One in trailer, and 2nd in seat, moving to the trailer when the oldest went onto the follow me. We are quite heavily loaded as we camp.
The Ogres are great with trailer/ follow-me as they have threaded inserts for the bob yak type mounts rather than using the quick release.
I'll be keeping the Ogre for a long time I think and it will hopefully serve me for adventure type remote touring when the kids are older or doing their own thing.
marin used to make these, used as a commuter/winter hack
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clearance for 2 inch tyres, mtb gearing front and rear rack mounts, hydro discs. Later models were 29ers they don't make anything like it anymore unfortunately.
Really? you had to correct the steering?
The spindle in the hub moves within the fork cowls so the wheel twists slightly in the fork and then the disc rubs.
I'm not sure if I explained that very well.
I never happened with the same wheels and discs in RC31 or Kona P2's so I have put it down to the forks. It does not seem to matter how much I tighten the quick release. I would also favour something very slightly longer or with more rake as the toe clearance is an issue on Kaffenbacks but the benefit may be very small.
PP is there any reason a 29er mtb isn't suitable?
Not really. It's something I've thought about... Only thing I can think of as to why not is its easier and cheeper to get lower gears on a 26in bike. When you're climbing up to the Tan Hill Inn pulling a trailer, that matters! 🙂
The Pinnacle is nice, but a tad pricy for me.... I'd have to pay full whack!*
I've actually ordered one of [url= http://www.ridgeback.co.uk/bike/x3#details ]THESE[/url] for Mrs PP. They're out of stock until end March (Gahhh!!) as it's about the best I can come up with. I'll be loosing the chainset for a 22/32/44 of which I have 3 sitting in the garage (All brand new, bought them for the chinrings... 🙂 )
*I work in a bike shop remember... If I can get one from one of our suppliers I get trade. Madison staff discount is pretty hefty on to of that as well.
PP, don't know if anyone mentioned a surly troll, Mrs ton has a wee little 16'' one.
it compliments my 22'' Lht a treat.
both are fitted with 12/36 blocks, 22/32/42 chainsets and bb7's.
hers has mary bars, mine has jones hoops. both have schwalbe marathon plus tyres. both have flat pedals, full guards and tortec racks.
both cover all your bases...I think... 😆
Well, how about going full-on traditional - this rides beautifully on Weinmann centre pulls!
...she's currently for sale at £375...although she doesn't actually belong to me, she's my mates but he's asked me to sell it for him....if I hadn't just cleared a couple of bikes out and bought one in, I'd have had it myself but I think I'd get strung up!
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No issues with an mtb 22 36 48 chainset on the disk trucker. Rocking silly bar ends here, as a "hoods" position.
22,36,48? How does your mech cope with that? That's over capacity......
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My off road tourer (often on road). 1988 Brooks saddle. Tiagria drop bar 9 speed STI's pulling a BB7 at the front. Rear brake XTR V brake with travel agent. Good modulation and power from both brakes. Shifters work well with a Deore/Middleburn/XT drivetrain mix. Photo taken at Cadderlie bothy just over a week ago.
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My on road tourer (often off road). 2010 Brooks Saddle. Rebuilt since this photo, now 105 STI's pulling Tektro's mini vees, and a 105 triple drivetrain. Good power and modulation from both brakes when dry. Unfortunately the Mavic Open Pro ceramics are a bit shite in the wet, I pop an alloy rimmed front wheel on in winter. The ceramics rims have lasted 30,000km +. Photo taken on the Roman Road to Durisdeer, Dumfries and Galloway. In this photo 48,44,22 (half step plus granny) chainset covered by a long cage Ultegra mech. Chain baggy in little ring little, tight in big big, but perfectly workable and rideable and able to shift to any gear.
I'm pretty sure that if you changed the fork on a voodoo hoodoo (and maybe change the wheels - I found the stock to be pretty flimsy) you'd have what you want for cheap.
I think I'd want drop bars on a tourer if only for somewhere to get low if I was riding a very long way into a headwind
I think I'd want drop bars on a tourer if only for somewhere to get low if I was riding a very long way into a headwind
We [i]never[/i] ride a very long way [i]anywhere[/i]. 🙂 we do it as a holiday. It's rare we do much over 40 miles in a day. What's the rush? Our average speed is usually around 9mph, but I carry more luggage than most people. We don't skimp on comfort. 🙂
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And the winner is
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http://i1242.photobucket.com/albums/gg535/basil179/SalsaFarg24-03-12048_zpsdd01124e.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL][/img]
[img][URL= http://i1242.photobucket.com/albums/gg535/basil179/Scotland2012218.jp g" target="_blank">
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Are you looking for a new bike or just musing?
You don't need gears anyway - I managed the coast and castles SS towing a trailer when my Alfine hub failed at the start 🙂
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/30189432@N00/5995898730/
Paul,
Just musing, yes. I can't imagine a better bike than my 853 Inbred to be honest. I would be happy to quite literally ride round the world on it , if the opportunity arose. 🙂