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Morning all, everyone well? TT day today, but not just any TT, an uphill one. Exciting stuff.
Only 17 out of 206 individual time trials of the Tour de France since the first one in 1934 have been contested uphill. The first one was up the Mont Ventoux on 13 July 1958. It gave the go to Charly Gaul's quest of the yellow jersey. There hasn't been any stage of this kind since the timed climb to L'Alpe d'Huez in 2004 that has remained one of the most popular stages ever in terms of number of spectators, even though they're always hard to quantify. Stage 18 from Sallanches to Megève showcases the hill of Domancy in its first three kilometers. That's where Bernard Hinault won the world championship in 1980. There'll be a 5000-euros prize for the fastest rider on that climb. But there'll be more kilometers to cover and more climbing, although not on a regular scale. The changes of rhythm will be the key to win the race with a steep section towards the end. Chris Froome is a hot favourite but not the only one. He said he might suffer after the fast start of stage 17 in which Richie Porte has showed his great form. The Australian is a challenger to stage favourite Tom Dumoulin who is not involved with the overall classification and therefore can pick his days. The Dutch champion for time trial wouldn't discard a third stage win prior to going to the Olympics. Bluff or not, Froome mentioned another potential winner at Megève: Nairo Quintana. Such an uphill time trial suits the pure climbers. In any case the winner will remain in the history as the first to win a stage in Megève. The famous ski resort of the Savoie has never hosted a Tour de France stage before. The first time had to have an exceptional flavor.
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Who to watch? [url= http://inrng.com/ ]Inrng[/url].
The Contenders: it’s hard to see past Chris Froome to the point of wondering how great the margin of his victory will be. He was second in the Ardèche time trial stage last week and is obviously climbing well. His only problem today is having to cope without Sherpa Poels.Richie Porte is the momentum pick, he’s on the up and as long as he can pace himself better than last week should set a big time. He was climbing better than Froome yesterday or as least looking more explosive in the final moments until Froome spun his way across.
Can Tom Dumoulin win? Normally this is not a course for him, if it looks rolling on the profile the reality explained above should make it too hard for him. To his advantage though he came in 30 minutes down yesterday meaning a relative rest. Still it’s likely the steep parts take their toll compared to the likes of Froome and Porte.
Bauke Mollema gets a chainring today. I got some flak for not giving him one yesterday but if a top-5 place seemed within reach on the stage the win seemed out of the question. However today he can ride at his own tempo rather than respond to attacks and his ability to suffer could see him haul himself to a result.
The local pick is IAM Cycling’s Jérôme Coppel, strong in the Ardèche time trial and able to climb well in conditions like this, a top-5 is possible.
As ever, a couple of pics from yesterday:
Zakarin
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Richie, on teh attack.
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Nairo, suffering
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Shane Archbold's bike, I'd suggest that it'll buff out.
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The Alps, dog ugly.
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Despite falling asleep before it all kicked off last night it was great to see the highlights this morning. Great ride from the local lad (like his now trademark Old Wullunga hill attack) and some high hopes for today, the stage should be suited to a climber who is on form with a solid TT record....
Cheers for the efforts Lunge and lets see what happens out there. This tour isn't over until that last summit finish
As someone said on yesterday's thread, kit choice could be interesting today. It doesn't seem too obvious - the 2004 L'Alpe d'Huez was a stinker and pure climbers tt whilst this has 4km of pure TTing before it gets tasty. 10km of ascent at an average circa 6% but the first section at 10% is going to hurt at the sort of speeds they will be travelling at. Pacing that and blowing up too early is not easy.
Bugger, just realised that the title should say stage 18, not 17. Can someone report the post to the mods and ask them to change it? Thank you.
Top 10 start times below, for those planning their viewing in advance.
170 Louis Meintjes (RSA) Lampre - Merida 16:32:00
171 Daniel Martin (Irl) Etixx - Quick-Step 16:35:00
172 Fabio Aru (Ita) Astana Pro Team 16:38:00
173 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Movistar Team 16:41:00
174 Richie Porte (Aus) BMC Racing Team 16:44:00
175 Romain Bardet (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 16:47:00
176 Nairo Quintana (Col) Movistar Team 16:50:00
177 Adam Yates (GBr) Orica-GreenEdge 16:53:00
178 Bauke Mollema (Ned) Trek-Segafredo 16:56:00
179 Christopher Froome (GBr) Team Sky 16:59:0
Those are, I guess, French times.
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Impressive white jersey performance again yesterday, good grimace too.
^ Its a bit mean making them do it twice 😆
Its a bit mean making them do it twice
Edited. I'm not awake this morning, as proved by this and the thread title.
Interesting, according to the Instagram feed of Henrik Orre, the chef at Sky, Froome is riding a TT bike today. I was expecting road bikes with clip on's.
SRAM apex on the TT bike?
Russian drug cheat and all that... but there's something about Zakarin that I quite like.
As someone said on yesterday's thread, kit choice could be interesting today.
That was me 🙂 Though reading the summary from inrng, which suggests the flatter bits aren't as flat as they seem, it would seem that a road bike with clip on's would be the sensible choice. Really depends on the speed and whether you can maintain a decent position and still put the power down on the steeper bits. I'd assume anyone with GC or stage win aspirations would have done their homework on this one!
Froome is riding a TT bike today.
I'd not be surprised. But then I'd also not be surprised if that was a bit of a bluff either.
What did Archbold hit to do that?
Wasn't there a TT a while back where they did a bike swap?
Head down aero the first 3-4km them swap for the climb? It was fun to watch the mechanics hanging off the cars
TT legend Dr Hutch rode this stage yesterday, he has some interesting views [url= http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/racing/tour-de-france/262871-262871 ]here.[/url]
What did Archbold hit to do that?
A wall, apparently.
Edit, the team is reporting he broke his pelvis in that crash...and then finished the stage. Nails.
Wasn't there a TT a while back where they did a bike swap?
Can't see that happening here, too short a stage.
TT legend Dr Hutch rode this stage yesterday,
Good summary. I'd have said road bike with clip on's, but I guess if you are comfortable climbing steep stuff on the TT bike then you might as well use one. There's not much weight penalty in them these days and you would benefit for the first 4k, that false flat in the middle, then the non-technical descent at the end.
Edit, the team is reporting he broke his pelvis in that crash...and then finished the stage. Nails.
They all are! Didn't G ride an entire Tour with a fractured pelvis a couple of years back after crashing on the first stage?
Its going to be a tough day for some. Wonder how some riders make sure they seem to be giving it some while trying to preserve themselves surviving the next two alpine stages. I don't envy the domestic's at this point.
Alpine Roots - Verbier mtb guides - posted some photos from near top of the climb, cool to see them out enjoying the stage.
What did Archbold hit to do that?
He was stood by a wall/side of the road and looked to be barfing up (I posted that yesterday), I guess that was a result of crash rather than too many beers as I joked yesterday 😳
To be honest I think this will be a boring day, can save some time by just watching the last hour. Can only see Froome extending his lead.
Aye just read that, didnt have a lot of skin on his left side either.
To be honest I think this will be a boring day, can save some time by just watching the last hour. Can only see Froome extending his lead.
Yes but no but yes....
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/criterium-du-dauphine-2016/prologue/results/
4km to 14.5km climb, ascent 650m. Surely no-one would think it was optimal to ride a full on TT bike for that? And in the first 4km you're not going to get enough benefit from it to outweigh the penalty on the climb, even if there are flatter sections in the climb.
And in the first 4km you're not going to get enough benefit from it to outweigh the penalty on the climb, even if there are flatter sections in the climb.
What are the penalties though? Most TT bikes are pretty near the UCI weight limit these days, certainly if you stick a lighter pair of wheels on there. Suspect it'll be down to how fast the long false flat is in the middle and how comfortable you are climbing steep stuff on the TT bike.
I'd not be surprised if the top teams have done a fair bit of computer modelling on this one to determine the optimal choice. It's easy enough to do if you know grade, weight, CdA, power, etc.
Yes but no but yes....
Bit different to the Dauphine stage, that was very steep and short (about 4k I think). This has a similar amount of height gain but over about 10k.
True but it does look like another wildcard stage
I suppose I was imagining penalty = "how comfortable you are climbing steep stuff on the TT bike". It's not going to be "ideal" for climbing on, and given that you would spend more time climbing than you will in a good aero tuck, surely there is "some" penalty? But having never ridden a TT bike I don't know how much the impact of lack of "comfort" would bring.
However, after all that, gaps are likely to be small so the biggest upset of the day might be Yates overtaking Mollema, and even that looks unlikely.
As mentioned above, it depends whether you can climb on your TT bike - there's no particular reason why it shouldn't be possible to climb well on one if you set it up right, and the aero advantage on the faster bits (they'll also be going fast enough on those false flats to get a significant advantage - over half the distance is flat enough to be in an aero tuck) is free speed. Those last 2km downhill you could potentially gain a lot with a good aero setup.
The important events I used my TT bike on were often very hilly - I've raced over Buttertubs, Newlands and Honister on it amongst many others - hence it's set up with a good climbing position, the brake hoods are in the same position as on my road bike. Yet still full on aero for the flat bits. The TdF guys should get an even better climbing position as their saddle will be further back than mine which would be UCI illegal.
I would assume that the top 10 are not browsing stw... But most of them will probably have ridden this climb on both bikes
I'd not expect there to be that much time between them, and I suspect Mollema will finish ahead of Yates.
[quote=mikewsmith ]I would assume that the top 10 are not browsing stw...
Well they've got nothing much else to do this morning, so what else would they be doing?
I would assume that the top 10 are not browsing stw... But most of them will probably have ridden this climb on both bikes
Yeah, agreed, wrong bike would be a bit school boy 'ish. The wheels could be more interesting though; TT bike with deep dish rear v disc
EDIT, Adam Yates has a big few days ahead
Well they've got nothing much else to do this morning, so what else would they be doing?
Not sure but after a good dump any other time wasting weight saving strategies? 😉
Also do we have a finisher yet? GC go out at midnight + for me so what time am I falling asleep?
Few are in, around 35 mins.
33.06 is the fastest so far by Gougeard.
31 kph average. I wonder what bike he used?
Not sure whose bike it is, but GCN just posed a pic of this option:
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Sorry to be a cynic but this 8 seconds will be more interesting than the whole of today
I reaaly like he TT stages, better than the flat where its a load of blokes on a bike ride for three hours
Not sure whose bike it is, but GCN just posed a pic of this option:
Looks a lot like Mollema's bike from the saddle and position.
For a kit geek like me, I love these stages, the odd bit of kit and setup, all things that appeal.
Kiryienka on a normal road bike.
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43 finished, Cummings 10th
Kiryienka on a normal road bike.
He won't be going for the win though. Domestique duties so will be taking it (relatively) easy.
Not sure whose bike it is, but GCN just posed a pic of this option:
I imagine you could get a fair old lick on with that. I do wonder if a deep dish would be better that a disc but they'd know best I spose
I imagine you could get a fair old lick on with that. I do wonder if a deep dish would be better that a disc but they'd know best I spose
That Emonda is quite a bit under the [url= http://road.cc/content/tech-news/197339-bauke-mollema’s-bike-makes-mockery-uci-weight-limit ]weight limit[/url] so you could easily stick some tri bars and a disc wheel on there and come in under the limit. That lovely Lightweight disc is only 780g too.
Cancellara bombed it off, shame he's not in paris for his TDF swan song guessing he's riding in t'olympics eh?
84 riders done, 32'27" new leader. Mostly road bikes so far is what I have seen wheels with larger rims as you'd expect. 20kmph up 12% incline, as you do 😳
Not sure there's much to be gleaned from the results so far given you don't know who's trying and who's cruising. Edet, leading so far, small climbing type. Gallopin quickest up the climb, more of a rouleur type.
Edit.. Olivera now leading, normal road bike with no clip ons. Eddie BH rode a proper TT bike (so likely to have been trying quite hard) over a minute down.
Double edit... Sicard now top of the table, full TT bike.
Tripple edit... Coppel just smashed it with a road bike with tri bars.
Eddie BH rode a proper TT bike (so likely to have been trying quite hard)
Maybe, but it could also be good training for the Rio TT (I'm assuming he's going).
Real mix of stuff now
Road bikes with/without tt rear wheel
Road bars, road bars plus tt, full tt-bars (eg Dumolin)
GVA just started on normal looking road bike ..
Have not personally seen a full tt bike yet
Think I'd go aero road frame with deep section wheels front and back, and then clip on TT bars, with remote Di2 shifters.
Dutch eye candy, Tom Dumoulin has gone full TT set up. looking quick too.
Dumoulin smashes it. 41 seconds up on De Gendt.
Real mix of stuff now
Not surprised as for a lot of riders this'll be pretty much a day off!
The Ulrika Bora Organ team, WTF is Kelly on about now 🙂
ITV just showed an image of Froome warming up, I [i]think[/i] his position is a touch more upright than his usual TT position. I guess they could have brought the bars a touch closer to allow more power up the hills on the extensions.
I don't think there's any adjustability there for Froome as they're one piece 3D printed to his exact fit. I guess it could be a completely different set.
This is Landa's...
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Do they warm up on "any old turbo" or is their bike less rear wheel
Bike change for Rodriguez, first I've seen.
This is Team Sky, you'd not rule it out.I don't think there's any adjustability there for Froome as they're one piece 3D printed to his exact fit. I guess it could be a completely different set.
They normally warm up on their race bikes, Sky use turbos that have the rear wheel removed.
Amused by Kelly again. Asked what Porte has to do today... "Go really fast... all the time... get a good time." 😀
No aero helmet or rear disc for Porte? I'm surprised.
Porte on a normal bike with clip on's, Yates on full TT bike, albeit with a shallow front wheel.
... and a road bike with clips but a disc wheel for Mollema (position does look good though.) It's a right mixed bag.
Aru 2nd, Porte up by 9s on Dumoulin.
Froome, full on TT bike, with disk wheel. Such a mix of kit, you'd have thought there'd be some kind of consensus but it appears not at all.
Aru 2nd, Porte up by 9s on Dumoulin.
At the second time check... and at the first time check.
Be interesting to see if Porte can maintain that over the false flat. Reckon pacing on that first climb is critical.
Edit... Richie now down by 9 on Dumoulin at the 2nd checkpoint.
Edit again... Aru putting in a very solid ride.
Yates 40s down on Dumoulin, placed 7th at second check.
Nice run Richie!
I do love a TT, can you tell? It's cycling for purists, just man and machine against the clock. It's like the test cricket of the cycling world, most people prefer a 20/20 or a mountain top finish, not me.
Yates looks to be gaining time on Mollema. Richie may well be up to 4th by the end of the day. Big jump to 3rd though. Looks like he's now 1 second behind Bardet on GC.
Froome looks like his normal TT position to me - it's certainly very close to that.
Looks like Nairo stays ahead of Bardet, who stays ahead of Porte. All pretty close now.
2nd quickest for Froome at 10km
all the gaps closing up from 2nd down by the looks of things
Froome now quickest at the 3rd intermediate, by some margin too (edit... 13 sec)
all the gaps closing up from 2nd down by the looks of things
Does look like it. Going to be about a minute covering 2nd to 6th by the looks of it.
16kmh, up a 7% hill, riding a TT bike, on the extensions. That is seriously impressive.
Honestly, get shot of the puncture who would be pushing Froome?
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#ManCrush
being honorably and not posting the me and Porte down pub pic (promised not until he retires) but come on Richie
Dumoulin looking concerned.
BBC is saying Froome is 3 minutes down. Is that pish?
Yes, BBC talking shite.
Is that pish?
Yes, he just won the stage by 21 seconds.
Yes, possibly a Tour computer glitch, the most he was down was 23secs at the first time check.
glitch in the matrix
Bloody hell fire!!