[Closed] Tour de France stage 13 - Saint-Girons / Foix - Fireworks on Bastille Day

Will sky look to control if Froome is not in yellow, Lot of pressure on Astana. How far is Bardet behind Aru? Froome can take back time in the TT but Bardet can really pressure Aru.

I'm hoping today is the day! A short stage, hard profile..a recipe for exciting racing.

I'm hoping today is the day! A short stage, hard profile..a recipe for exciting racing.

If they're not too wrecked from yesterday!

What's the start time today? Got 12.30/13.30 stuck in my head but don't know how it got there

Not another mountain stage ??!!!

Booooorrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiibrilliant.

I think a breakaway today, but yet to so some thinking as to who..

The bottle fiasco rolls on...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/vaughters-tour-shouldnt-come-down-to-water-bottles-and-incompetence/

So evidence shows Bardet takes a bottle but he doesn't get a penalty because they didn't see him drink from it?!

Tour gets more like the Giro with each passing year 🙄

Disappointed for Uran. He always seems to lose out when things get a bit confused. Would probably have won the Giro a few years back but the organisers made a hash of "neutralising" a descent allowing Nairo to grab a bunch of time and the win.

Send Landa in the break Sky. Pretty please.

The bottle thing is slightly ridiculous.It seems like a daft rule to me but if its there Bardet has to get the penalty. If only because should he win the GC by less than 20s people will always say he shouldn't have won it.

The sad thing is, it will overshadow what was a cracking ride from Bardet. I've already seen some stuff on social media which seems to be directed towards him despite the fact he can do nothing about it.

Hope Bardet can use his descending skill to grab a bit more time.

Think/hope for a breakaway win then an interesting GC race further back.

So evidence shows Bardet takes a bottle but he doesn't get a penalty because they didn't see him drink from it?!

Bardet takes a bottle from a spectator therefore technically it was available to anyone.

There is a specific rule in place that bans feeding from cars or the side of the road in the first 50km and the last 20km although Commissaires have the option to change that (eg in very hot weather). However to change it they must brief all the teams in advance of the stage starting, you can't decide half way through the stage to change it.

The rule is there to allow the race to play out fairly - ie in the last 20km when attacks are flying, riders chasing, lead out teams beginning to form etc you don't want cars up there trying to give out bottles or soigneurs etc all along the road. Also fairness - a rich team that can afford to station 30 helpers all along the final stretch vs a mid-ranking team that can't afford that.

However there's nothing to stop spectators handing stuff up and (in theory) that's neutral cos anyone could take that.
And riders can still hand bottles, food etc to each other which is another reason to always have a domestique with you in the final stages.

I *think* that's why he's escaped a penalty.
sad though that the overarching theme from the stage is "what if" rather than the actual racing.

There is a specific rule in place that bans feeding from cars or the side of the road in the first 50km and the last 20km although Commissaires have the option to change that (eg in very hot weather).

Correct, and I believe yesterday the "no feed" zone was increased to the last 10K and thats why Sky riders who took bags at 13K to go were not penalised. Pretty confusing though. Why would you take a drink from someone you didn't know and risk a contaminated drink.

I *think* that's why he's escaped a penalty.

Well apparently Cannondale proved that the person who gave Uran the bottle wasn't a Cannondale team member, just someone who worked for Cannondale Europe and was spectating on the stage. Their response is that they didn't care who it was, he'd taken a bottle so gets a penalty.

Then when shown the Bardet footage they then argued that they didn't see him actually drink from the bottle he took so he escapes a penalty

All sounds a bit farcical.

Why would you take a drink from someone you didn't know and risk a contaminated drink.

Probably forgive the riders for not making the most lucid of decisions after 200k of riding and climbing a cat 1, a HC and another cat 1 climb in quick succession at full gas.

Landa and Cummings in the break please, with froome to attack on the last climb

I believe that on stages with a mountain top finish that the no feed zone is often reduced to 10K or the base of the final climb depending on the width of the roads, etc.

Didn't Sky get penalised on Alp d'Huez for something like this during the 100th edition?

It's too steep for Mollema, Feillu, Felline, Pantano but I'd love them to be in a break and stay out all day.
Calmajane? Doubt it but it is Bastille Day.
Bardet will hunker down today, if he's up at the sharp end at the finish.. it could be his.

UCI (French) commissars wear blinkers when any infringement is incurred by a French rider.
I'm actually expecting more blinkers as the race goes on.

Probably forgive the riders for not making the most lucid of decisions after 200k of riding and climbing a cat 1, a HC and another cat 1 climb in quick succession at full gas.

Fair comment. Not sure I make the most lucid decisions after two hours of riding!

Would be great to see Cummings in another break today but I guess he'll still have yesterdays stage in his legs.

If the organisers get the stage right - short stage and fireworks from the go - then its a day to watch from the very beginning.

Yeah Froome got docked 20s for accepting an energy bar from someone in the last few km. Maybe 2013?

It would have been fascinating to see what Porte would have done yesterday. Never mind.

Hope Bardet can overtake Aru somehow. Would much prefer him or Froome to win over the slimy Italian.

UCI (French) commissars wear blinkers when any infringement is incurred by a French rider.
I'm actually expecting more blinkers as the race goes on.

Unfair comment - there are at least 6 Commissaires on the race, they're from all over the world and they're appointed by the UCI. Sanctions have to be agreed by the whole race jury which includes the organisation, the Commissaires and the finish line judges.

Yeah Froome got docked 20s for accepting an energy bar from someone in the last few km. Maybe 2013?

It was a massive fine - Richie Porte went back to the car for a gel and gave it to Froome. Had it been the car coming up to hand a gel out it would proabbly have been a time penalty but because the domestique went back for it, they escaped the time sanction and just got a fine.

It was a massive fine

1000 swiss frances... about 800 quid 😆

I suppose it is huge when you consider Bouhani only got fined 200 swiss francs for punching someone 🙄

I wonder what a time penalty would actually cost a team if it punted a rider down from, say, 3rd to 4th on GC. A podium in Paris is worth a fair bit of cash to a team.

ooh, UCI have had a re-think

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-reverses-time-penalties-for-uran-and-bennett-1/

Uran and Bennett have had the 20 second penalty rescinded

Looks like Uran's penalty is being reversed:

https://twitter.com/Vaughters/status/885785512128253952

Presume that means George Bennett's penalty goes too.

EDIT: too slow!

Wot?

Best guess is that the wording of the rule somehow stipulates that you're not allowed to get a feed from the team but makes no mention of getting a bottle from the crowd.

Really looking forward to today's stage. I rode the Col d'Agnes a couple of weeks ago (though going up the side they're going back down, then turning back on myself at the top), it's an incredible beautiful part of the world. Hoping the tops aren't in the cloud again!

**** me the UCI really are a mess when it comes to implementing their own rules

Sky would be daft to chase everything down today, they should let Astana do that while they hold yellow. I think Bardet & AG2R will have another go today. Hopefully, it'll be an exciting stage and we can see one of the other big team's controls the inevitable breakaway.

[Edit] with Uran's time penalty reversal I hope Cannondale team up with AG2R and go big today [/Edit]

I guess what it comes down to is that they didn't want to alter the result of the stage.
Once they had proof of Bardet taking the bottle, they didn't really have a choice.
Totally understandable and not a bad decision really.

Well, blinkers off then !!

Never thought I'd see that.

Bring it on!

Half tempted to sack the afternoon's work off and watch this one live.

I suspect Uran & Bardet will be racing each other for third, but I really hope they can stick it to Froome & Aru too.

[quote=stevious ]Best guess is that the wording of the rule somehow stipulates that you're not allowed to get a feed from the team but makes no mention of getting a bottle from the crowd.

yes, as [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/tour-de-france-stage-13-saint-girons-foix-fireworks-on-bastille-day#post-8594331 ]Crazy-legs explained above[/url]

[quote=AlexSimon ]I guess what it comes down to is that they didn't want to alter the result of the stage.

the 20s penalty only applied to GC times anyway, not the stage result

Best guess is that the wording of the rule somehow stipulates that you're not allowed to get a feed from the team but makes no mention of getting a bottle from the crowd.

No it doesn't. The rule is....

2.3.027 Feeding is prohibited on climbs, descents and during the first 50 and last 20 km.
The commissaires panel may reduce the distances mentioned above, depending on atmospheric conditions and the category, type and length of the race. Such a decision must be communicated to interested parties before the start of the race.

That's it. No mention of team staff, bottles from public, etc. A pretty simple rule that becomes quite complicated in real world situations. I'd assume it applies to a rider as much as the team, so accepting a bottle from a member of the public would be considered a violation. But that's just my interpretation 🙂

In fact, this rule...

2.3.026 In other events or stages the organisers may also provide food and drink in areas set aside for that purpose. The feeding zones will be signposted. They shall be of sufficient length to allow supply operations to proceed smoothly.

The food and drink shall be distributed on foot by the staff accompanying the team and by no-one
else. They shall be positioned on one side of the road only, which must be the side on which road
traffic circulates in the country concerned.

... could be interpreted as disallowing the taking of a feed outside of a feed zone, even from someone that isn't a member of the team. There's also a rule allowing feeding from a team car.

I wonder on what basis they've scrapped the penalties?

Edit...

"In light of the inability of teams to resupply their riders before the last climb of stage 12 of the 2017 Tour de France due to specific circumstances of the race which had blocked vehicles, the UCI Commissaires Panel has decided to annul the penalties imposed on riders Serge Pauwels (Team Dimension Data), George Bennett (Team Lotto NL - Jumbo) and Rigoberto Uran (Cannondale Drapac Pro Cycling Team),"

Well where there's a will to bend the rules there's always a way 🙂

I guess what it comes down to is that they didn't want to alter the result of the stage.

apparently time penalties only impact the GC and not the stage result.
I wonder if this applies to TTs too?

I wonder if this applies to TTs too?

If you're slowing down enough and weaving around to grab a bottle from the crowd in a TT, it means your day is already ****ed and it wouldn't matter anyway

I suppose it is huge when you consider Bouhani only got fined 200 swiss francs for punching someone

I agree, but the fines for any given offence are laid out in the regulations, so it's not the race jury who are deciding on the day how much to apply.

EDIT: Section 12.1.040

The fine isn't the problem with the French Thug - just should've been kicked straight out of the race. Didn't soemone get DQ'd from the Giro this year for a jersey pull? Yet Douhani can lash out and get a slap on the wrists?

The fine isn't the problem with the French Thug - just should've been kicked straight out of the race.

Again. The punishment for any given offence is detailed in the above doc.

And you can see exactly how the jury rules in the daily race documents.

EDIT: Added the quote.

Can't understand why Bouhani didn't get the boot.

Even in footy you'd be sent off for punching a rival.

jeeeessssssuuuuusssss you only get DQ'd for "particularly serious agression". That is genuinely astounding, I don't know of any sport outside of Ice Hockey with such a weak penalty for violence

[quote=legend ]jeeeessssssuuuuusssss you only get DQ'd for "particularly serious agression". That is genuinely astounding, I don't know of any sport outside of Ice Hockey with such a weak penalty for violence

Aussie Rules Football 🙂

I said "sport" 😉

Anyone want to tell Bernie he's in the entertainment business...? 🙂

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/eisel-hits-back-at-criticism-of-boring-flat-stages-at-tour-de-france/

Getting impatient now! There's only so much idle paperwork I can shuffle around my desk.

every year the same headlines:
- first week is boring
- flat stages are boring
- UCI are incompetent
- there are so many crashes

at least we've had no motorbike/team car/spectator endanger/tanglements so far.

brakes +1

Fans seem to have goldfish memories.

It wouldn't be the TdF without a load of boring flat stages. Anyone who's driven across France knows how shockingly flat most of it is.

The fine isn't the problem with the French Thug - just should've been kicked straight out of the race.

Punch somebody in a BC race and see how that goes 😉 . Hint, you can expect not to be racing for the rest of the season.

Might resort to eurosport viewer this afternoon at work.

The fine isn't the problem with the French Thug - just should've been kicked straight out of the race.

From what I understood he'd been shoulder barged before the "punch" (which wasn't much of a punch really) so I'd imagine that was taken into account as just a bit of rough and tumble. It's hardly like Bouhanni is popular, even in France. As a Giro red-jersey winner he should be trotted out on TV and newspapers a lot but he's not.

Tommy V gurning from the start, brilliant!

Allesandro De Marchi, Phillipe Gilbert and Sylvain Chavanel away at the front. Marcus Burghardt (yay he's in my velogames fantasy TDF team!) and BOH team mate Pawel Poljanski chasing hard

Pippa back in the studio

edit - Rolland chasing. Calmejane now up with Poljanksi.

edit 2 - looks like there's about 10 riders now (Calmejane, Poljanksi et al) in a group well off the front of the peloton, chasing, the threesome at the front - they've got 1 minute on the peloton and have started the forst climb

Kittel at the back, alongside Luke Rowe, but I didn't spot Cummings...

wow, aggressive start all round

looks like the intermediate group were caught on the climb - Barguil, Contador and Landa have now launched an attack off the top of the first climb, Calmejane trying (and failing) to catch them

De marchi alone at the front

can't decide which to do first, plan my funeral or buy a used watch 😐

Landa?!

Edit - used watch then funeral

Yep, is to make Astana, AG2R, Cannondale etc work hard to bring him (Landa) back as he's a threat at only 2 or so mins down.. Aru and Bardet don't have many teammates left so will have to do it themselves..

Contador just wants to cause carnage, love watching him race..

Joey - see my posts at the end of yesterday's thread. I wanted Sky to do that. I just wasn't sure they had the guts.
Is Froome up to it today? Attack up to Landa on the last climb?
Or is Landa in it for Landa today?

Although would be interesting to see what happens if Aru, Bardet etc decided to call Sky's bluff and let Landa go.. would Sky pull him back to keep Froome as leader, would Froome chase his own teammate down in order to still lead the team, or would they just let Landa gain time on everyone?

Edit: Ah sorry, misunderstood your point!

Let Landa go I think. Brailsford is not that sentimental.

And Kwiatkowski now. Oooh.

They have to be hoping Froome can attack back to his lead out.

Froome sitting at the back of the group at the moment, think he was one teammate with him.. maybe a bluff though

Landa now working with Contador. Be interesting if he can get a big enough gap to put Aru and Astana under pressure. Aru might need to do the chasing himself.

I'm more interested in what happens if AC/Landa pull out 3-4 mins to see how Froome/Sky reacts.. joint leadership?

They have to be hoping Froome can attack back to his lead out.

Usually what happens is simply that the break get reeled in naturally, Sky will have been doing very little other than sitting in it and then suddenyl Froome has two more domestiques right there when he needs them.

It's not so much an attack back up to them as them drifting back into the peloton.

I don't think it'll happen, group not big enough and too many will want to chase. But if Landa does finish the day in yellow with a big gap and Froome sat in 3rd a few seconds behind Aru then Sky would likely consider that a very good day's work.

Only following the text commentary, but looks very interesting day so far. Are Bardet and Aru biding their time for the final climb and descent..?

It is interesting. Both Landa and Bertie up front with 2mins33s over Aru, but Quinty, Barguil and Kwiack only 50s back to Landa.
54k to go and they've just gone over a bump.

24km descent 😯

the way I ride that's a lot of arm pump from braking.

I rode that 24km descent a couple of weeks ago, incredible fun! At a considerably slower speed though!

According to the BBC text feed there are 22 different groups out on the road!

Just been off looking at pre-owned watches. Have I missed anything?

Quintana, Contador, Kwiatkowsk, Landa and Barguil all in the front group. Could be very interesting. All with interests in working hard.

Sounds great with roads closed. Will Froomey be doing his special knackers-on-the-top tobe style descending again??

EDIT - I don't get it, what's the market for pre-owned Casio watches?

Second hand FitBit - minimal use...

I think Landa might just end up in yellow tonight, that would be brilliant by Sky if he did 😀
#anyonebutaru

Fuglsang has abandoned.

Landa needs a few seconds on Aru to become virtual leader.

Plus a win bonus hopefully.

Looks like some riders want to get off and walk!

According to the BBC text feed there are 22 different groups out on the road!

Copying my club run leading style. Except I can get my groups split into 22 even if I only have 9 riders in it, I'm that good.

(I'm usually in the last one)

This is savage stuff.

Cruel stuff for Dan Martin.

fingers crossed for a clean & tidy descent for all

Ha!

A Frenchie on Frenchie day.