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Looks like MrLunge is sleeping it all off.
Good Lad.
So, plenty of happenings so far. Moscons impression of Merryweather, Thomas becoming less animated in press conferences (preferring to dead pan one liners) Nibz out having being squished by a moto, flares a plenty on the climbs, Dutch corner, a couple of breaks and Sagan sprints and ultimately France painting a 14C town Yella in y’honour to Le Tour.
Highlings for me include de Corte win, Stuys hang off the front, impressive Valgren, depressive Quinty, Sky’s roadblocks and general demeanour.
Et Vous?
The yellow art work isn't for Le Tour, it's to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the City of Carcassonne becoming a UNESCO World Heritage Site.
He's not going to support until he has had a couple more tries himself you can bet
But are they really going to go head-to-head ?
Lets assume they drop the main competition and it's just 4-5 of them, is Froome really going to attack Thomas ? By the same account, is Thomas going to pander to the team-plan and let Froome go ? Will they risk blowing up both riders by both giving it a good go ?
I'm intrigued.
The most easy prediction is that Sky continue to ruin, sorry control, the race and nobody else gets remotely close.
TD will just start racing against his nearest rival and it will all be one big team sky celebration yet again.
Not the fault of the riders that the gap between them and every other team is so massive but it's slowly taking any joy out of it, and that's even with a few exciting stages so far.
You just know how it all ends.
Highlights for me: Quintana's ride through the cobbles, shame he hasn't followed through in the mountains, Allaphilippe's stage win, Degenkolb's stage win, that was an emotional one and, of course, Sagan being Sagan.
I'm enjoying the fact we're in the last third of the race and the GC is still to play for. Do we think the reduced team sizes have helped?
But are they really going to go head-to-head ?
Lets assume they drop the main competition and it’s just 4-5 of them, is Froome really going to attack Thomas ? By the same account, is Thomas going to pander to the team-plan and let Froome go ? Will they risk blowing up both riders by both giving it a good go ?
I’m intrigued.
They will carry out Brailford`s plan (whatever that is). Given the lead I suspect they will just defend it and neither will attack. If Thomas blows a gasket, then Froome will be clear to attack as much as he feels.
He’s not going to support until he has had a couple more tries himself you can bet
Froome attacking would be supporting Thomas.
Lets assume they drop the main competition and it’s just 4-5 of them, is Froome really going to attack Thomas ?
He hasnt so far, he's ridden as a team mate. Thomas attacking the other day just before Froome got back in was a little cheeky imo.
I still think Froome will go all in early at some point. If it works he wins, if it doesnt Thomas has sat on wheels all day.
I would also add that whilst Dumoulin might well beat Froome in the tt by more than the 11 seconds he haa he will want more of a buffer over Froome so will look to attack. The rest look shot.
I don't think it is that certain for Sky by any means. It could easily go to Dumoulin, more so now Sky are a man down.
Yes I think that Froome will attack on col du portet. The only thing in doubt is will it stick.
It could easily go to Dumoulin, more so now Sky are a man down.
Just not seeing it at all.
Froome and Thomas will double team the hell out of Dumoulin and he won't know which one to go with.... Add that to Team Sky just walloping everyone else into oblivion, i just can't see anyone other than Sky winning.
Strangely I think GT's chance of winning depends on TD staying strong. Froome will attack for sure and GT won't be allowed to chase. But if TD can reel him in then GT can sit on his wheel then pop out at the end for the bonus. But if TD can't catch Froome then will GT be allowed to chase him down ?
could mean anything, from Froomes legs are shot to random mind games
Its a complicated situation for sure, but as I said Dave will have a plan, its what he does. So, imagine this scenario.
Froome goes all out attack. GT is unable to follow, but TD is. Froome cannot sustain the attack due to fatigue from the Giro, and TD has been towed into a lead over GT.
I don't think Froome will be allowed to attack until GT has blown up.
Froome goes all out attack. GT is unable to follow, but TD is.
So Froome sits up, pretty simple really. If Froome attacks and gets away G sits on the others.
Froome attacking would be supporting Thomas.
As in Froome gaining time on G? Like happened with Hinault and Lemond. And they still aren’t talking to each other. 😀
Was it only me who noticed Froome towing TD and Dan Martin back to G a few days ago? That’s not supporting your team mate.
Morning campers, walks into work to all kinds of fun and games and haven't had chance to check in, sorry!
Today thought:
Is Dumoulin the biggest GC threat...or is it Roglic?
Is Dumoulin the biggest GC threat…or is it Roglic?
Boardman was suggesting they should form an alliance to counter the Froome/G tag team. Roglic has the stronger team for sure.
Is Dumoulin the biggest GC threat…or is it Roglic?
No 🙂
HTH's 🙂
So Froome sits up, pretty simple really. If Froome attacks and gets away G sits on the others.
Not really that simple. Froome attacks and gets 2 minutes on G. G blows up and TD crosses the gap. Then Froome cannot sustain the pace due to said fatigue. TD is clear to ride into yellow.
Its unlikely I know, but I think Sky`s best form of attack here is defence.
As in Froome gaining time on G?
Yep is the opening line in team tactics 101. Make others work.
Froome attacks and gets 2 minutes on G. G blows up and TD crosses the gap.
Then G would have blown early trying to defend attacks from others.
Then Froome cannot sustain the pace due to said fatigue. TD is clear to ride into yellow
Thats racing, if TD is the strongest he wins and good luck to him. If G cant follow TD he doesnt deserve to win.
I dont think Sky or G himself are confident G wont crack so Froome needs to put time into TD.
I dont think Sky or G himself are confident G wont crack so Froome needs to put time into TD.
The thing is... Thomas would/should have cracked by now if he was going to. In previous years we've seen when Bardet/Td/Quintana/Nibali/Pozzovivo etc all go and GT isn't quite there... just missing that final little edge to keep him with the super elite... This years event, he's done it on the big days too, both on D'Huez and the day before... they were the days he'd normally have faltered.
So i'm thinking "maybe he's got it this year" after all ?
I don’t think Froome will be allowed to attack until GT has blown up.
Not gonna happen. If anything, Thomas is looking in better shape than Froome - my guess was Froome's feeling the effects of the Giro.
Not gonna happen. If anything, Thomas is looking in better shape than Froome – my guess was Froome’s feeling the effects of the Giro.
Yeah, kind of my point. Why attack G when he has a 2 minute lead? Its would be strategical suicide. I don't think Froome will be allowed to (as I said) unless GT cant hack it.
And how different could this whole conversation be if TD hadn't got penalised 20 seconds?
Froome in third would be a nail in the coffin for his Tour chances I feel.
Whilst I accept G hasn't had a GT where he has got to week 3 without having to work for someone else I still think it's way too early to assume he won't lose form in the 3rd week. Given Froome is also renowned for week 2 & 3 form I also don't think you can really question his form yet. In the Giro he looked second-rate apart from one stage before his epic breakaway
Also, Moscon needs to be fired...
A few more:
Rest Day Press Conferences where team leaders say they’ll support siblings in thier quest 😜
When really the message is: I’m here trying to deflect the challenge upon my position by saying “go get the other bloke, not me”
The politics is strong in that statement, don’t ya fink.
Also:
Degenholbs win, a win most deserved for all the reasons already stated. But more for the emotional outpouring when he crossed the line.
The Cobbles, split more than the peloton that inclusion. Caused more finger wagging than a Tweenagers Pop Concert encore, or LadyGGa video.
👍👎✋
QS being Belgian and proving that you can pick riders from your own country to effect a “mini Worlds” squad and demolish Sponsors expectations. Maybe they ought to change the colours of the shirts to Black/Amber/Red and be done with it 🤔
The great Sprinter step off after the first week. This continues to be a very moot point, should the tour offer sprint stages? and intermittently place them throughout the Tour or Block Placehold in weekly segments at the start/middle/end to make sure riders who enter actually finish before receiving a stage win?
The Tours in France, it’s been contained within its boarders and no excursions to neighbours pastures... this is a good thing IMO as it’s the Tour de France not Tour of anywhere that pays us big Euros, suitcases full of welcome to “ xxxx “
Hopefully Moscon will be shown the door.
I think Sky will know exactly which of their riders is fatigued, they know from Froome and testing how he is feeling, they will know the same for G, and from that they will know which horse to back. Ultimately they are in a great position, even with Moscon gone, they still have more capable domestiques than the rest.
What Dumolin has done so well, is use Sky as his domestiques really, he has tucked in behind them, and stayed with them.
The issue is that he stays with them on the climbs, but does he have the "attack" to do more than stay with them, and actually go past them gaining time?
The great Sprinter step off after the first week.
Not a new thing though, is it? Remember Mario Cippolini?
Bernal leading the bunch up d'Huez and Degenkolb winning were the hilights for me. Really pleased for him coming back from a potentially career-ending crash.
Nice to see Sagan dominating, Seriously, I think he is the cyclist's cyclist. Years gone bye, he'd have been GC contending, but it's great to see him on the climbs. Bossing every lumpy stage, and clearly hungry for wins.
Disappointment has to be Movistar - they are the Team Sky antithesis. All the talent but not the team.
"Remember Mario Cippolini?"
HAHAHA, super Mario used to love his week of races in France before stepping into the team car at the foot of the first climb! This exodus was a little less forgiving, but makes Paris interesting.
G won two big mountain stages on the bounce. Not often that happens. There aren't even any more mountain top finishes are there? It would take something extraordinary to dislodge him now I think, and he's not looked in any trouble at any point yet.
There aren’t even any more mountain top finishes are there?
One more summit finish iirc, plus however many lumpy days where he can aim for the nearest lamppost...
There aren’t even any more mountain top finishes are there?
Yes there is one and it looks frightening.
How do we think the grid start is going to go?
Can't see it adding anything myself, I can't imagine anything happening other than a natural re-grouping
I'm hoping all the GC riders go from the gun like a stabbed rat, what I'm expecting is that they sit up and wait for the domestiques.
I think that Sky will want to attack as they can't be 100% sure that GT will perform in week 3 if he loses time there may not be enough racing before the ITT for Froome to get a safety net.
Fair enough. One more real chance for the others then. But he still looks like it's all under control and he's just had a couple of easy days to prepare for the last few challenges. He and Froome can even take turns at breaking TD if they feel like it.
Yeah the Super Mario days eh... still the same topic and same outcomes.
Definition of insanity innit? Doing the same thing and getting the same result eh ASO?? 🤠🍆👌
Another obs:
MOAR French fellows up, or in the top 20 than like forever maaaan... ? Is French cycling pumping its tyres up to the same pressures as the other squads?
MovBouys:
Who? What? Where are they?? Valvpiti being the only one to smile these days it’s almost like the rest of the squad are chewing pomegranates with the skin on.... c’mon lads spinnup a bit eh..
Bloody Wanty:
Undergraduates of the the Pro Peloton whose inclusion seems more brown envelops stuffed with Sponsors Euros and stench of FatMcQuid... than achievement based criteria.
Why is there little to no talk of TD being tired? He rode just as hard in the Giro, if not harder given the efforts he had to put in to try to win it off Froome. He's had already to chase and counter moves from Froome, G and others. He doesn't have the blanket of domestiques around him and is relying on following someone else's pace most of the time - even if that is the sort of pace to suit him, what with all three of them not being pure teeny climbing folk.
G is 10/11; Froome is 5/4, TD is 5/1
Bookies are not often wrong.
I’m hoping all the GC riders go from the gun like a stabbed rat,
Me too, that would be fun.
what I’m expecting is that they sit up and wait for the domestiques.
But this.
Anyway high point for me would be G's wins, especially atop the Alpe.
Grid start could be interesting. More so for the length of the stage. I suspect Sky will burn a couple of domestiques every 30 mins or so... Will gaps open up from the get go? Or will it be a more civilised affair with the main contenders climbing together?
I’m hoping all the GC riders go from the gun like a stabbed rat,
G gets on Froomes wheel and they 2 up tt it into the sunset!!
Is Dumoulin the biggest GC threat…or is it Roglic?
Roglic is a class act, if it wasn't for a big time gap in the TTT he would be right up there. Interesting whether he forms an alliance with TD or does his own thing. If he jumps on one of the remaining mountain stages, who would scramble to cover him first?
It's still Froome vs TomDum, as I see it. And it'll be close.
Bernal leading the bunch up d’Huez and Degenkolb winning were the hilights for me. Really pleased for him coming back from a potentially career-ending crash.
Nice to see Sagan dominating, Seriously, I think he is the cyclist’s cyclist. Years gone bye, he’d have been GC contending, but it’s great to see him on the climbs. Bossing every lumpy stage, and clearly hungry for wins.
Sagan is the King, but would he have won GTs in the old days? I don't really know what it used to be like - do you mean that Merckx and co rode everything and were all Sagan-like allrounders, you didn't have the GT-specialist types in those days?
It just seems to be a French cultural thing
way to go Dave how to win friends and influence people 🙂
Pretty much, but even then they were specialists in certain aspects.
Merx and BigMig were totally different yet did excel in a sort of all round type of rider.
These days it’s all “specialists” which to some degree I don’t mind. What grates by bibs is invariably the Sprinters climb off after thier Bit is done.
I think, and throw bidons at me for this, that to claim your stage win you must complete the “course” so.. sign on at the start and cross the line at the CElsz..
Everyone is hankering for the next Merckx. Win the classics one day and GT's the next. But that's not happening now. GT winners excel in TT's and can climb. If you are a climber who can't TT, sorry Nairo, sorry Romaine, get down on those aerobars and start honing your position and power. If you are a TT specialist, learn how to pace up those climbs and lose 10 kg - hello Bradley and hello Tom. Il Pirata was the last climber to win, and I can still remember the tension when it came to that ITT!
Truth is, we want Sagan to excel at everything, and he loves to ride to win, which makes him so exciting. But he's not a climbing TT specialist, or TT'ing climber.
Quite looking forward to the Sky TTT over the hills, but in reality, it will be a damp squib.
"way to go Dave how to win friends and influence people"
Hmm, odd that, especially after a year or so of pretty much having his personal and professional reputation permanently tarnished, the team being turned from gold standard to public enemy #1 courtesy of a surprisingly well timed data hack, some rather selective bits of sensationlist journalism that desperately searched for a smoking gun but instead only found their brothers best mates', ex-girfiends dog walker who said they had noticed the faintest whiff of something that could have been smoke, a govt enquiry into sexism in sport that appeared to go, lets face it, quite a bit off piste, a leak from a what was supposed to be a confidential UCI enquiry (dont get me started about the difference between an AAF and a failed drugs test), a true humdinger ride in the Giro now under suspicion (it was either a mix of recce'ing the stage, luck, tactics and everyone else forgetting to race at the top of the climb or invisble jet engines powered by mind expanding psychadelic love drugs and Tesla model S Batteries designed by Lord Lucan hidden inside Froomey's legs ) and then spending a happy couple of weeks being spat at you'd honestly think Sir Dave would simply see the funny side of it.
Sorry, been reading the comments section of Cycling News a bit too much and needed to vent 🙂
Still, on the bright side, G's post-race interviews are genuinely refreshing :" Can we go to Paris now?" and I'm dearly hoping that Sagan will do the entire TTT pulling a no-hands wheelie while singing a medley of hits from Grease.
well said
Well I never.
@muddy +1
Also don't forget winning the tour by winning it, with a team something most of the other GC contenders forget to pack year on year. Maybe next year it should be a solo race, yes that is it do every stage as an ITT so we can see who the best rider is on every stage 😉
As for a finale - GT has to race to the end, I don't think the public would forgive him or sky if he didn't. So it's over to Froome and TD. TD is key to the battle I think and he needs to be close enough to make Froome uncomfortable going into the TT.
He has looked a little stronger on the final finishes so far which will be telling. As for the staged sprint up the hills, if you are sky and heading out in group 1 how long do you need to sit up for your team mates and how many riders will you have to repass to do that? What it could deliver us is a straight shoot out between the top 5 guys which would be advantage Sky
I’ve not seen a definitive explanation of what time gaps the various groups are going to have - the only things I’ve seen have all said the time gaps will be just a couple of seconds.
A fact worth repeating from the lance Armstrong podcast (as I found it very interesting.) G’s time up l’alpe d huez was outside the top 100 times recorded.
We should do some sort of finale sweepstake where we predict the final time gaps over the line at the CElsz..
Don't honestly know what the order will be for the top 3 but I am predicting 9 seconds between 1st and second and 4 seconds between 2nd and 3rd.
Tighter than Sunwebs aero none zip jerseys and Sky’s Doctors note pad.
A fact worth repeating from the lance Armstrong podcast (as I found it very interesting.) G’s time up l’alpe d huez was outside the top 100 times recorded.
Given A) the number of previous dopers up there and B) the way it was raced not at all surprised, the sit up, the cat and mouse games up there it wasn't a flat out destroy them stage like it has been before
A fact worth repeating from the lance Armstrong podcast (as I found it very interesting.) G’s time up l’alpe d huez was outside the top 100 times recorded.
they were all playing silly buggers once they got to the flatter stuff at the top.
A fact worth repeating from the lance Armstrong podcast (as I found it very interesting.) G’s time up l’alpe d huez was outside the top 100 times recorded.
Big Mig still has one of the faster times I think? We can take a view on that...
On Sagan - why would he aim for a GT win ? People (other than the rest of the peloton?) pretty much *heart* him as it is and he's bloody minted, all without beating the shit out of himself every day for a fortnight (I'm not saying he doesn't train hard but he's a stocky little ****er and it'd take a lot to get down to climbing weight. He also appears to hate TTs, and good on him for that; he's a racer
Favourites for the tour - I'm also in the GT or TdM camp. Froome looks shagged to me (unless a rest-day miracle should occur)
I do think Sky's "domestique" dominance has buggered it all up though
Fair point. But everyone loves an all-rounder. And who was the last most successful rainbow jersey wearer? Winning just one race in the hoops was considered a good year in the past!
I also agree that Froome looks tired, but then Elbows-the-stem-watcher can turn it around pretty quickly. I also think he’d be delighted if GT were to retain yellow in Paris, more so if he knows he doesn’t have it in him, but can do something to make that happen.
So I’m calling G for the overall after reproducing his recent GB TT success. With TD second having overtaken Froome in the ITT. Just wonder who will be gluing silicone dots onto the ASO skinsuit
Could be proved wrong tomorrow. But Team Sky are the consomethinge Team.
GT winners and classics - Nibali won MSR this year, Dan Martin has won LBL and it's a climber classic as is fleche wallonne, Nibali and others have won Lombardy, the guy wearing yellow at the moment has had some decent wins in Belgium (not a monument yet tho), classics aren't just Roubaix and Flanders
I’ve not seen a definitive explanation of what time gaps the various groups are going to have – the only things I’ve seen have all said the time gaps will be just a couple of seconds.
From last nights ITV4 TDF rest day recap:
First 20 riders line up in offset echelons like F1 races except in rows of 5 - Yellow Jersey first, 2nd place slightly behind, third a little further back etc. 4 rows of 5
The remaining riders will be in groups of 20.
Approx 80 metres from front of the start line to the back of the peloton
What's the point/logic of that ? I don't see how that's going to change anything for more than the first minute while they sort themselves out.
"Roubaix and Flanders"
Yeah, they are 😉 .The others are somewhat hilly long one day races. Although the descending of the Poggio in MSR was what did it for Nibbles, and it was great to see the sprinters mugged on the line. My comment still stands regarding GC specialists being climbing TT'ers or TT'ing climbers. I love Bardet, but if he can't improve his TT'ing, he's not going to be the next French winner in Paris. Needs more aeroz gainz, or just time in the position.
Most successful MSR ride is Merckx. Most stage wins in the TdF is errr.... Different age.
What’s the point/logic of that ? I don’t see how that’s going to change anything for more than the first minute while they sort themselves out.
Depends how they ride.....as said before if for example the front rowers, ie: the GC contenders go for it from the gun (like startled rats) they're already on a major climb, and their teammates are already up to 80m back with hordes to get past as well. So for sake of argument if Bardet attacks from the gun, does Froome / G wait for their teammates to catch up before Sky-Training their way back, or do they go for it tout seul? Big gap but then with people to help you close it, vs all in from the start?
On a stage that is basically all climbing or descending with very little flat where you might really benefit from your teammates, i think it's going to be exciting.
(also Sky are not that well placed overall..... Bernal is in 22nd, Kwiat is in 67, Poels in 69..... an alliance of non-Sky riders to stop them rejoining too easily perhaps?)
hang on....has the TdF started already?
He has looked a little stronger on the final finishes so far which will be telling. As for the staged sprint up the hills, if you are sky and heading out in group 1 how long do you need to sit up for your team mates and how many riders will you have to repass to do that? What it could deliver us is a straight shoot out between the top 5 guys which would be advantage Sky
Even just 70kms is too much for a balls out race to the finish line. Don't forget the rest of the Sky train don't need to finish that high at the end - bearing in mind they are used to bossing races for 150km, they can easily go mental for the first few kms to get to the front and then go hard for 50km.
The only thing that might cause problems is a 'convenient' pile up after about 20th place that blocks the road for a bit and causes some carnage - G and Froome aren't going to wait for their team, and maybe Movistar have enough up the road to launch something with Tom haning onto their coat tails.
Tricky one to say who'll win. G and Tom D are a couple of my favourite riders, and I'd also like Froome to get to five TdFs. Could be a great TT on Saturday. I know Tom D is the World Champion at the time trial, but with three weeks worth of tour miles in the legs I'm not as sure as everyone else that he's going to cruise to victory in it. Bear in mind Froome came third in the Olympics a couple of weeks after the TdF, he's no mug and has, erm, form, for finding his form late in the race.