A chance to discuss the week so far.
Who are the heros? And the villains?
Who's cooked and who is warming up nicely?
Any other such chat you so desire.
Thanks for doing these Lunge. Hoping the tour still goes ahead tomorrow.
I don't really comment on the daily threads. I read them in the morning but then avoid them until I get a chance to watch the highlights at about 4 in the evening.
Hirschi has been great to watch and animated the race as has Pogacar.
Not sure about Bernal yet - he looked pretty good yesterday. Ineos don't seem to have the strength in depth that JV have though. Roglic seems solid at the moment and is chipping away a good lead.
Its been alright so far, eh?
I think the reinstatement of time bonuses has had a lot to do with how good it's been. Yesterday's finish was thrilling - with no time bonuses available at the finish line, the GC contenders would have let Hirschi go and all rolled in together, closely eyeing one another. Instead we got to see an elite group of four containing the leaders of both Ineos and JV full-gas chainganging it in on a rolling road in the last 5km on a stage in the first week. No way would we have seen that had there not been seconds on offer at the line.
Having said that though, by targeting the time bonuses, Roglic now has a fairly significant lead without having really hit out in spectacular fashion. Froome may divide opinion on how exciting a rider he is but he's had plenty of stage wins where he's destroyed everyone else. Doesn't feel like Roglic has that in him, but it's early days.
I know what you mean about time bonuses, but the other side is that Roglic could win the tour without really putting any real time into his rivals. I want the winner of the GC to be the guy who can put 10 seconds into people on a climb, not clip off the front and claim a time bonus.
Roglic seems solid at the moment and is chipping away a good lead.
Jumbo-Visma have a real strength in depth. WvA is in a class of his own, seemingly able to do pretty much anything. Roglic is steadily clawing back a lead and is looking odds-on favourite for the overall. No-one else has shown themselves to that degree with the possible exception of Bora-Hansgrohe re-establishing Sagan in green.
Some great individual performances. Hirschi, Pogacar, Powless have all been really good in animating the race.
Am I right in saying there’s no TTT? Would love to see one in the latter stages. JV seem to have all the fire power. Not sure Ineos could match them for team speed. For me it’s Roglic’s tour this year.
...and who is going to be tested positive for C19 today? And if so, what implications for other tour riders?
Doesn’t feel like Roglic has that in him
You watched any of the grand tours before ?
You watched any of the grand tours before ?
I mean at this race, funny guy.
Am I right in saying there’s no TTT?
Not this year. I love the TTT. I absolutely hate the ITT stages, they're just dull.
TTT used to really show the overall cohesiveness of the team. Cav got the leaders jersey at the Vuelta one year when it started with a TTT because his team, dedicated to leading him out in sprint stages, were so good at the through and off and millimetre precision. Cav actually tried out for the GB Team Pursuit squad - a TP being very similar to a sprint leadout, he was by all accounts incredibly good at it but 0.1% off being Olympic team selection.
And Boardman lost the yellow jersey one year when Gan fell to pieces on a TTT, they were all over the place.
ITT is great as it shows true team strength, but I also think we need more TT's.
The GC should be the strongest overall rider, not just the best climber, I think the desire to stop Sky/INEOS has tipped it the wrong way over recent years.
I think Ineos have played this well - JV have come into the race really strong and since they';ve been strong since the Dauphiné, you have to wonder if that form will last. Ineos looked ok but no that the same level and I htink have been biding their time, riding into form. Sivakov crashed and as such has been invisible, probalby told to stay out of the way and just recover ready for week 3. Bernal has been just off the pace, but yesterday he looked better - he's coming into form ready for weeks 2 and 3. Justhave to hope that there will be another two weeks of racing...
Agree on the TT / ITT thing - even if it means a return to split stages with a TT and then another ride. How about a nocturne stage?
I mean at this race, funny guy.
dunno seems pretty ready to give it beans when needed .
You dont win a tour by being wreckless, You win a tour by countering attacks and asserting dominance at that point.
Roglics as capable as anyone in the peloton he has proven it time and time again on going on a solo break if he wishes - He is just wise/mature enough to know that could leave him exposed tomorrow.
Arguably Ineos are bluffing i think. Bernal is always there or there abouts and hes proven him self as able - But as above the rest of the team seem to be unable to support in the ways they have in the past..... but i do wonder if they are letting him use other teams to his advantage now to save them selves for a strong finish.
biggest damp squib of the tour for me was Carapaz but i also wonder if that was a bluff.
I wonder if the desire for a really hard first week has backfired a little? Seemed like a great idea to get some GC action early doors, but C19 (which clearly couldn’t have been anticipated) means no one is really strong enough to go all-in for 3 weeks. As a result, we haven’t had the desired GC action (perhaps apart from yesterday’s run into Laruns) and we’ve lost out on those targeting pure sprint wins, meaning the beneficiaries have been those good all rounders such as WVA, and Alaphillipe - who usually profit in weeks 2 and 3 once the best sprinters have been broken
Arguably Ineos are bluffing i think.
I think they're benefitting greatly from the much reduced media coverage now that it's not a British TdF contender taking up all the interview time after each stage.
Agree on the TT / ITT thing – even if it means a return to split stages with a TT and then another ride. How about a nocturne stage?
Not allowed any more. Split stages, especially if one is a TT, lead to issues around recovery time where (if the TT is in the morning) the first rider off has more recovery time in advance of an evening stage than the last rider.
It's hard to look past Roglic, but Bernal has been riding conservatively so may be the strongest in the final week. Pogacar should be able to make the podium as long as he doesn't burn himself out. Stage 20 will be the crunch point and should suit Roglic over Bernal, but it all depends on how fatigued everyone is. Interestingly, nobody seems to have a strong team mate in the mountains, so the race is still very open.
Interestingly, nobody seems to have a strong team mate in the mountains, so the race is still very open.
A couple of the Alpine stages should suit Yates actually - for him to win a stage though, he needs to be far enough back on GC that he's not a threat to the overall so might be a bit touch and go.
Trail_Rat, I agree with previous comments, Roglic is a bit boring to watch, a wheelsucker until 200 to go. It’s early days so hoping for more action from all of the GC contenders. He may actually light the race up, it is early as I mentioned.
(I’ve watched grand tours, actually all road racing, for decades, yep some have been negative affairs, Whilst some have had amazing storylines. So far the GC is in my view one of the negative affairs)
To be fair to Roglic, he just has to mark Bernal. Roglic is stronger over the last 200 metres so that’s all he’s doing. Yeah, he has to keep a watch of Pogacar, but realistically they know each other very well, Roglic will know he can beat him when it matters.
Here’s some riders with genuine panache winning the TDF.....
- 2009 TDF Stage 15 Contador attacks LA, puts a minute into him. Leading the GC.
Stage 17 of the same race, Contador in a break with the Scleck brothers, put more time into his other rivals, won the tour by 4 mins.
2016 tour,
The cross wind stage, TDF yellow jersey leader not hiding in the pack, but trying to make things happen.
Same tour, Froome attacks at the top of the the Peyresourde...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e7N-6wbiMQ
2018 Giro, Froome immense attack.
Older ones, how about Lance and Pantani and Ulrich. 2000 TDF. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwkndsmCIdU
There’s load more wher a rider has won the tdf with attacks and guile, and also equal amounts of negative rides marking out the opposition and using your team to stop attacks. I just hope the end narrative to this tour isn’t about Roglic sprinting for time bonuses.
Older ones, how about Lance and Pantani and Ulrich. 2000 TDF
Fuelled by more than panache.
Aye Slow, they were, but there was still a lot of exciting racing going on.
I’ll be honest and say I find Roglic a better version of Wiggins. Not quite powerful enough on his own to entertain us with attacking riding, but solid enough with a very good team to beat the rest into submission.
I’m more than happy to be proven wrong when Roglic does more than win the sprint over the crest of a mountain for the bonus seconds.
Then again I’m old and rose coloured glasses are on, wanting the new chapter of racing to be played out as entertaining as years gone by. It takes more than a single protagonist and a winner can only beat the opposition he faces.
US Postal, Sky, JV - all were/are unacceptably strong teams if you're a fan of eyeballs-out racing
Agreed, most of the TDF winners in modern history have the strongest team, but there was still exciting GC stories. The leading protagonists still attacked and at times did some crazy things, my answers were in reply to an earlier comment from Trail_Rat about winners not doing any reckless attacks, that just made me think of Froome and a couple of his fairly recent wins with reckless attacks.
ITV4 programme on now is a good round up of the first week. Some race analysis from Chris Froome as well.
that just made me think of Froome and a couple of his fairly recent wins with reckless attacks.
They weren't reckless - they looked like he was winging it but they were meticulously planned. One of them, Ineos drafted in every available member of staff to stand at the roadside with bottles and food, his fuelling had been worked out to the last calorie.
This year is an odd one. The top team isn't controlling the race to the same extent as Sky in the past - there haven't been mountain trains on the last climb suffocating the race every day. Instead the racing has been neutralised to some extent by the level of the leaders. They all seem to be racing hard with nobody really being able to make a big difference, and it's only handfuls of seconds here and there. I think it's too early in the race to expect a knock-out blow just yet.
Either way, I've enjoyed the race so far. Only 2 boring stages so far, which is a pretty good rate of return.
Aye Slow, they were, but there was still a lot of exciting racing going on.
Yes true and I suppose you could say they were all equally guilty so in that respect it was a level playing field. Failure to admit to that guilt is what I find distasteful.
So far there has been very little entertainment from the GC protagonists, Pogacar excluded. I think the most interesting stage so far was "green jersey day" from Millau. Very entertaining.
@woodster don't forget Andy Schlecks 60km solo attack on the Izoard in 2011 and Cuddles chasing him down to keep him in range to win it in the TT.
Yes true and I suppose you could say they were all equally guilty so in that respect it was a level playing field.
The Inner Ring has a well thought-out piece on this:
Plenty to get your teeth into and lots to invest in; including that long range attack and ride by Hirshi.
Roglic is no more or less boring to watch then Froome. And there’s plenty of drama in the Jumbo Visma team. What’s up with Tom Doumolin? Will we see Sep take a stage?
Ineos aren’t bossing the front, that seems to be QS and JV role now.
Bernal looks to be racing a little more freely.
Will Uran manage to sneak back up on the GC without being spotted?
Can Yates get his stage or is he just a little too strong (and so a threat to GC). Will he accidentally end up in yellow? Again.
Bonus points have definitely spiced up this race as has a decent first week par course.
And then there’s the Covid stuff. Stupid fans, rest day testing, anti-doping only just getting back to doing it’s thing... and will the race make it to Paris? You could hear the media coverage relaxing somewhat as the first week passed. Let’s see.
