[Closed] Tour de France 2019 - The second rest day thread

how many stages can Simon win ?

Another

From me for putting these threads together.

Obz from a week of obz:

Pinot riding into form 👍

Alaphillipe becoming the toast of the French nation 👍

Porte for his inevitable demise 🥴

Quintana’s soft peddling 🤷‍♂️

Sagan for wheelies and bringing some well received carnival to the carnival 🤪

Bardets lack of form, more than he imagined I guess 🤷‍♂️

Wanty for actually riding not only in the break, but for having some riders who show they can last until the end 👍

Barguil, mind games and internal challenges overcome? 👍👍👍🥳

Skineos’s lack of rolling roadblocks 😱

No didi 🤷‍♂️

@bikebouy - I sure I saw Didi on one of the earlier stages but might have been an imposter. It wasn't a close-up shot so couldn't be sure.

Plenty of shots of Didi on the ITV highlights show.

IIRC, he's sort of banned from 'official' footage as he's sponsored by someone outside of the approved list from ASO.

Didi or an imposter was stood by the road,picked up by the camera on a couple of stages at the end of the first week,not seen him since though.
So glad I booked this week off work so I can watch the last week of the Tour,most exciting,unpredictable tour in years.
I think Marc Madiot will explode if Pinot wins it.
Once again Lunge,thanks for the daily posts.

Great tour - wide open. Hope Pinot goes on the rampage in the Alps.

Normally by this stage in the Tour the top ten are decided and the time gaps are slowly widening. This year the top six are getting closer and barring accidents the podium could be any three from those six.

About the only "normal" things this year are Quintana not living up to expectations and Movistar's bizarre race tactics.

I think people are under-estimating the impact of the forecast high temperatures - they're talking 40˚C maybe, but certainly in the 30s - which hits different riders to different degrees. Froome loves that stuff but obviously isn't there, Pinot was destroyed by it at last year's Giro on the state where he withdrew in pieces and has previous form for heat stroke back in 2014.

Also a few journalists have suggested sickness in the Ineos camp. No idea if that's true, but it might explain why the likes of Kwiato look flat.

Hope it carries on like this to the end though, just a brilliant race. My money's still on Egan Bernal. He's looking stronger every day and looks to off the leash now. Bring on the Alps 🙂

But I think the heat could turn the whole thing upside down depending on hos individual riders cope with it.

It'd be great to see Pinot attacking in the Alpes and Alaphilipe clocking this and hanging onto his back wheel to drag himself to a podium.

For once and thankfully the Ineos / Sky tactic of shutting everything down doesn't seem to be working which is making of a great race and of course Movistar being Movistar

Movistar have such strength in numbers. All they need to do is pick one leader and get behind him.

With all the talk of Ap`s performance and how it can be so, why does no-one question Pinot turning himself inside out two days on the trot or Yates loosing 16 minutes one day, and winning the next?

Didi is definitely there, i heard the eurosport commentators mention him last week.

I think we are starting to see what a Tour might look like without the domination of one team, and I have to say that I like it!

I did feel sorry for Julian Alaphilippe mind, heading back to the car to get his own bottles just before the final climb, while in the yellow jersey. Chapeau etc.

Perhaps Romain Bardet might finally go around to his mum's house and eat a proper meal now.

Sagan really is a superstar. Even on the Bora adverts.

I’d like Pinot to take it, but Alaphillipe would be a great champion. I don’t think he’ll make the third climbing day based on yesterday though.

I did feel sorry for Julian Alaphilippe mind, heading back to the car to get his own bottles just before the final climb, while in the yellow jersey. Chapeau etc

He's doing the whole Yellow Jersey thing mostly on his own, DQS just don't have the strength in depth within the team to support him.
He did get left a bit exposed yesterday but realistically, at those speeds, a teammate wouldn't have been much use anyway unless as a psychological thing.

Another vote of thanks to @lunge for the daily TdF threads. Great work!

It is a good'un, deffo.

Bardet, Quintana, Martin, Porte, Yates - disappointing despite being in the pre-race 'contenders', plus ca change...

G - can still do it I reckon, may be undone by Skineos leader-gate

Bernal - see above

Pinot - looking great, and I'd be happy to see him win (as would wifey, she'd be very happy to help him 'celebrate'...)

Alaphillipe (terrible spelling, sorry) - fantastic performance so far, but I think he's come to the end of his run. Chapeau to him though.

G or Pinot for the win I reckon.

With all the talk of Ap`s performance and how it can be so, why does no-one question Pinot turning himself inside out two days on the trot or Yates loosing 16 minutes one day, and winning the next?

Probably because Pinot's always been a talented ground tour / stage race rider, but prone to inconsistency. I still think there's a fair chance he'll blow up or get ill, he doesn't seem robust. Plus he's not in yellow, yet. It'll be unusual if he rides through the whole race without something going wrong other than the day when he lost time in the wind, but then again it happens. Look at Thomas last year, up till then he'd always either crashed or simply had a terrible day that had pushed him right down the order.

Simon Yates has basically been riding for stage wins. He spent the first week or so just lying low, then on the Tourmalet day was helping Adam, who was having a bad day. Given that his brother looks pretty much out of GC, yesterday he was just racing for the win. He doesn't care about his overall position, just winning stages and, presumably, making sure he's right for the Vuelta.

If G doesn't do it (preferably without too much Ineos controlling of the race) then I'd be happy. I may not like the team but he seems like a top bloke.
If not I'd like Pinot, love the way he rides. There is something I don't like about Ala.

With all the talk of Ap`s performance and how it can be so, why does no-one question Pinot turning himself inside out two days on the trot or Yates loosing 16 minutes one day, and winning the next?

Yates (Simon) is not riding GC though is he, he supposed to be supporting his brother but as that hasn't turned out well. He can, therefore, take it easy some days and target the others that suits him. The said in an interview that the 2 stages he won are the 2 that he targeted.

Bardet, Quintana, Martin, Porte, Yates – disappointing despite being in the pre-race ‘contenders’, plus ca change…

Yates emptied himself at the Giro though in spite of his ill-judged bollocks about how he was the man to beat and how all his opponents should be scared of him. Maybe it was just trying to give himself a psychological boost.

Quintana I think is past his best. 2013 & 2014, Giro and Vuelta wins, podium in TdF. Those days are long gone and his team don't seem to have the slightest inclination to support him.

My 2p.

I think Alaphilippe will fade, or possibly even blow up spectacularly on a stage. Yesterday he looked deflated when he couldn't quite stay with the pure climbers. That's the first time I've seen him not look 100% positive during the Tour. I'd be very happy for him to win but I think he's been riding high on having yellow on his back. No doubt about it he's made this year's race excellent as a spectator.

Pinot will level out, he's climbing great at the moment, but I can't see him getting better, and he prefers cooler weather.

Thomas will improve. He's not looked 100%, but yesterday he looked to be getting back to where you'd expect him to be.

I'd like to see Landa unleashed and/or supported.

All in all it's been the best tour for years so far

All in all it’s been the best tour for years so far

I heard several times on the highlights yesterday, commentators saying it been the best tour they can remember. Its been good, but I think "best in memory" is pushing it a bit.

Best for years isn't the same as best in memory. But, I can't think of a tour in the last 10 years that has had as many genuine contenders, there's a week to go and there's still a handful of riders who could realistically win. Plus Alaphilippe has surprised everybody. He's been great to watch, attacking, does his share leading out his team's sprinter, generally happy positive guy who is enjoying the race. Plus Ineos aren't dominating the race, controlling everything, dampening everything down. (Although I'm not sure they're firing on all cylinders to be honest.)

Yates emptied himself at the Giro though in spite of his ill-judged bollocks about how he was the man to beat and how all his opponents should be scared of him. Maybe it was just trying to give himself a psychological boost.

think he was talking about Adam not Simon.

the rest day standings

General Classification after Stage 15
1 ALAPHILIPPE, Julian (DQT) 61:00:22
2 THOMAS, Geraint (INS) + 1:35
3 KRUIJSWIJK, Steven (TJV) + 1:47
4 PINOT, Thibaut (GFC) + 1:50
5 BERNAL GOMEZ, Egan Arley (INS) + 2:02
6 BUCHMANN, Emanuel (BOH) + 2:14
7 LANDA MEANA, Mikel (MOV) + 4:54
8 VALVERDE, Alejandro (MOV) + 5:00
9 FUGLSANG, Jakob (AST) + 5:27
10 URAN, Rigoberto (EF1) + 5:33
11 PORTE, Richie (TFS) + 6:30
12 BARGUIL, Warren (PCB) + 7:22
13 QUINTANA, Nairo (MOV) + 8:28
14 KREUZIGER, Roman (TDD) + 11:04
15 MARTIN, Daniel (UAD) + 11:39
16 MARTIN, Guillaume (WGG) + 13:42
17 ARU, Fabio (UAD) + 14:15
18 GAUDU, David (GFC) + 14:31
19 BARDET, Romain (ALM) + 27:12
20 MEURISSE, Xandro (WGG) + 28:25

Best for years isn’t the same as best in memory. But, I can’t think of a tour in the last 10 years that has had as many genuine contenders, there’s a week to go and there’s still a handful of riders who could realistically win

Just goes to show what some good doping can do

Also, got to add this, really enjoying Klunks re-interpretation of the whole Ineos/fracking re-naming..

🤣👍

Its been a brilliant tour so far.

I really hope Alaphilippe can hang on for a podium he thoroughly deserves it for riding such an exciting race.

Its actually quite hard to pick a winner right now. I think we might have to wait until Friday and the slopes of the Galibier before we have a better idea

Great tour. As a francophile and trying to be non cycnical I'm loving Alaphillipe and Pinot's performances.

I think with Thomas's performance yesterday, he's starting to come back into some form. The format of today being a rest day then a couple of flatish stages stage mean he'll be ready to rip it up Thursday onwards.

How much of the "Alaphilippe is going to blow up tomorrow" is just patriotism though?

Geraint didn't blow up or crash last year and with the benefit of hindsight was going to win from the start. That sort of narrative is only easy to write after the event though. The same would be true if Alaphilippe crashed or had a bad day, we'd all come out and say "he's not a real 3 week GC rider" or "his bike handling just isn't upto the mountains" etc. We said the same about Froome for years!

Sky/INEOS rely on the tactic of having a process that works, which boils down to not having a bad day, and assuming that over three weeks every other contender will have one and lose a couple of minutes. Which works, as long as no one else is lucky (or prepares such a good team) and manages to stay with them and beat them in a time trial or two.

Winning the GC is 33% the fitness and preparation to get yourself on the podium, and the rest is luck which step you're on.

Geraint didn’t blow up or crash last year and with the benefit of hindsight was going to win from the start. That sort of narrative is only easy to write after the event though. The same would be true if Alaphilippe crashed or had a bad day, we’d all come out and say “he’s not a real 3 week GC rider” or “his bike handling just isn’t upto the mountains” etc. We said the same about Froome for years!
Sky/INEOS rely on the tactic of having a process that works, which boils down to not having a bad day, and assuming that over three weeks every other contender will have one and lose a couple of minutes. Which works, as long as no one else is lucky (or prepares such a good team) and manages to stay with them and beat them in a time trial or two.
Winning the GC is 33% the fitness and preparation to get yourself on the podium, and the rest is luck which step you’re on.

With respect, there is so much BS in this post I don't where to start!

Sky/INEOS rely on the tactic of having a process that works, which boils down to not having a bad day, and assuming that over three weeks every other contender will have one and lose a couple of minutes.

I get what you're saying, sort of, but I think what you're missing is that Froome is absolutely central to that process. The whole team believe in him and trust him to deliver when the chips are down and I'm not sure that's the case with G. I'm not saying that G can't win or the team don't trust him, but leadership goes a long way. Look at Man U after Fergie left for an example of that. Same players, far worse results. Throw in the change of team spomnsor and Rod Ellingworth leaving, even different jerseys, and it probably feels like a different team despite the continuity.

Last year it was only really as Froome faded that Thomas became the leader on the road of Team Sky and it was well into the third week before talk of Froome coming back as their main man finally stopped. There might well have been internal (to Team Sky) talk earlier that Thomas was now their GC contender but to the outside world it was still presented as a two leader setup and Thomas did the "We'll see how each day goes." routine.

DQS don't have that second rider that Alaphilippe is ostensibly protecting the yellow jersey for, it's him and him alone.

At the start of the Tour I had Alaphilippe as one of my outside chances of overall victory. After yesterday's stage I think the rest day has come at the right time for him, another mountain stage today would have done for him. Whether today and the two flatter stages before the Alps will let him recover enough, who knows?

Everything is close enough at the top for any of the top six to fancy their chances so I expect lots of attacks.

From the very first time that the coverage mentioned Quintana, Bardet and Porte as possible contenders, it took about 2 seconds to think "oh do shut up". None of them are, none of them have been (this year, at least), and anyone who seriously thought they were - with the possible exception of Porte - is an imbecile.

I had Alaphilippe as one of my outside chances of overall victory

I wondered this too. After yesterday I'm not sure, but I still reckon he has a chance. I think one of the things that has probably caused other teams problems with their tactics is Alaphilippe appears to have approached each stage as a one day race and just gone for it. Apart from the last two days where he's picked a wheel to follow he hasn't so much defended the yellow jersey as carried on trying to attack.

Thank you Lunge. Top job (again!)

Alaphilippe's legs are shot I fear. You don't just go from being a stage hunter/classics guy to a genuine GC contender because you are in yellow. That adrenaline and tension takes it's toll. He's had some good results in week long stage races but I think the Alps will be the undoing of him. He's been awesome.

G has come into the Tour undercooked so I expect Skineos have tailored a strategy for him to peak in the last week - they have always liked a good negative split! Whether his form improves enough to overtake Pinot and beat Bernal is the interesting thing for me. Bernal will probably deal with the heat better than the other two.

No one has mentioned the World Champion who is only 5 minutes back by the way. Tactics aren't Movistar's thing but I just have a feeling. Valverde is always strong in the last week and he has Landa to work with - or fall out with. Quintana is surely on domestique duties.

It's there for the taking...

I though Alaphilippe did well to stay in yellow yesterday, when he cracked I thoguht he was going to ship minutes but he rallied round; probably help by GT coming back past. He's got a rest day and two flattish days to recoup but thursday - Sat just looks brutal! He'll need Mas to recover as well to help him I guess.

So the sprinters teams should control Tues and so JA will stick in yellow; how about Weds? To my largely uneducated eye it looks like the sort of day soemthing could happen if the race isnt controlled well (hilly and probably cross-winds)?

I does look as though there has been illness in quite a few of the teams. Steve Cummings was saying how ill he was a week or ago.
Geraint is going to get better in my book and Alaphillippe worse.
Feel that Dan Martin, Richie Porte and Bardet don't have the teams they need to get them 'up there' in the podium places.
What's happened to George Bennett?

George Bennet got sent back for bottles at a very bad time on the day the crosswinds split the bunch. He was right up there with the favourites nearly all the way on Sunday, and I know I am being insanely patriotic and it will never happen due to the way the teams are structured and managed along national lines, but he could be a contender in future! He is making a huge impact for the Dutch Jumbo-Visma team.

How much of the “Alaphilippe is going to blow up tomorrow” is just patriotism though?

I don't believe it's possible for anyone to ride the way Alaphillipe is riding and survive until the end. I might well be wrong, there are not many big stages left, but it's an endurance sport and he's riding every stage like a single day race.

Regardless what happens, he's already cemented in legend. The pain and the passion written across his face is, for me, the image of this year's Tour, so Chapeau to that guy. He's already a winner in my eyes. In fact they should make a special Jersey just for him.

Thomas is the most experienced but needs to find his mountain legs and go in guns blazing, there's no more room for error. A lot of talk about Ineos lacking strength. Imagine what would have been had Froome been there (assuming he'd have been in his usual stella form), with Poels, Bernal and Thomas all acting as domestiques. There's quite an obvious piece to that puzzle missing.

Because of how close it is, there's going to be some hard riding so I'm not even going to try and predict who will win. Something unique about it this year though, is that I want everyone to win. They all deserve it.

I think it's obvious that G's been under the weather. The way he described not having the last 5% says to me that the numbers weren't matching what they should. Alaphillipe won't make it to Paris in yellow, though. I'd love it if Thomas came out fighting in the Alps; but this is the first tdf in years that needs to be "won" and not just "held onto" - which makes a nice change !

Thanks Hels.
Yes I do remember the split where George was sent back (can't understand it myself) but he looks like a contender for the future.

Geraint was saying earlier that he mustn't be competition for Egan. I want him to get his mojo back for the mt stages.

It hasnt been mentioned yet, but G said he was held back on the final climb yesterday - team tactics?
Alaphilipe thought G was shot, so stayed with him, as he is the clear threat to his lead, then G went with 2km to go, and Alaphilipe had nothing left.
For Ineos, this was the perfect day, Bernal up the rankings, G still 2nd, and knowing he can beat Ala up the hills when he wants to.
All G has to do now is stay in the leading pack, Ala will fade in the mountains, and G will win overall, Bernal or Pinot 2nd.

This does all assume though that Alaphilippe is indeed riding each day like a 1 day race. Most of his lead was from the TT and the TTT, the rest of the time G has ridden the same or faster up those hills.

Hence my point, is there a logical reason why Alaphilippe would suddenly blow up and G not? Sky/ineos's tactic of shutting it down from the front only works as long as whichever domestique is at the front can drop their opponent before the leader. All Alaphilippe has to do is sit on the back of the sky train with G.

It hasnt been mentioned yet, but G said he was held back on the final climb yesterday – team tactics?

Only the standard one where you don’t tow the rest of the GC favourites up to your team- mate ahead.

Most exciting Tour for many years!

No mention of Kruijswik as a potential GC winner with Bennett as support - Jumbo Visma also seem to have a strong team that works well together (unlike Movistar).

Issue for me is whether Quick Step have the team to support Alaphilippe in the final week - will they be trying for the next two flatter stages with Elia Viviani (can't see Ala acting as Viviani's lead out man again) or putting the whole team behind Ala in the Alps.

Can't make a call on who will be in yellow in Paris but there is sure to be an exciting and nail-biting finale in the Alps.

Stage 18, a break of non GC contenders gets away, GC group crests the final climb together, Alaphilipe thinks to himself, there's no way they can stick with me down hill and buggers off at warp speed, G responds and has his traditional crash into something hard, loses his glasses, Alaphilipe gains 25 seconds and it all comes down to a shit or bust fight on Val Thorens for the greatest finish since LeMond & Fignon, Alaphilipe takes it, G in a froggie sandwich with Pinot. France parties until the end of the year

No mention of Kruijswik as a potential GC winner with Bennett as support

I was once once a big fan of Kruijswijk, that’s a long time ago now when he made an effort in the Giro.. Now? I just think he’s go no “umph” left.

Well he's in the right ball park surely? He's doing brilliantly at this stage

Don't care who wins as long as there are MORE ATTACKS and MORE EMOTIONS.

This year's race is brilliant.

Here in Bourg St Maurice this week and it’s pretty hot but forecast to get a lot hotter for the end of the week. The Tigne (playing in the bike park today 😀) and Val Thorens stages are going to be brutal in the heat and I reckon Pinot may fade. Bernal for me as the winner out of the last GC six

G has come into the Tour undercooked so I expect Skineos have tailored a strategy for him to peak in the last week – they have always liked a good negative split! Whether his form improves enough to overtake Pinot and beat Bernal is the interesting thing for me.

He doesn't need to overtake them.

I think Alaphilipe has dug too deep have been multiple stages where he has crossed the line and basically collapsed against the barrier, needed support to stay upright, you can't dig that deep day after day, expect him to explode like Yates in the Giro last year.

Expect Pinot to crumble in the heat, G to ride in to better form and Kruijswijk to be battling with Thomas in the mountains for Yellow come the end. Landa to go stage hunting beating him in being the only Movistar rider to win a stage.