[Closed] Tour de France 2019 - The end of the race thread

Sad times now, no more tour for a bit.

Thank you for all the daily threads, been one of the first things to look at in the mornings.

So what next?
ineos have got an interesting logistical challenge for next year with 3 grand tour winners.
Will G do the vuelta this year?
and surely France will now be working properly towards a tour win next year (i hope so anyway)

Another note.
the bespoked podcast is really good, and while it is sad to see peter kennaugh not riding he was a damn good addition to the itv team

A few thoughts.

The later arrival in the Champs Elyses made for some beuatiful footage yeterday.

Its a shame that the weather prevneted the last two mountain stages from living up to their billing; but doesnt stop it having bean a great tour.

Thanks lunge for going to the effort.

I also like the cyclingtips podcast; a good bit of half-cut banter and some nice insight

I do wonder if salary caps for a grand tour team is the awy to go. That way an outfit like team inoes could still field A-class teams for the different grand tours but jsut not have all their class riders in one tour. This year it seemed way less of an issue though

Great race, absolutely lit up by Alaphillipe. Kind of understated, but deserved, obviously, win by Bernal in the end.

I started watching the final stage with only a couple of laps to go yesterday, did they give Alaphillipe a run out at the front when they hit the Champs-Elysee?

the bespoked podcast is really good

I keep meaning to try that.

A good Tour, but unfortunately not a great one due to the last few days. Organisers had no choice and I don't think it effected the overall standings too much, rather it just robbed the audience of the exciting finish.
JA wont get another chance like that, he will not get the free reign he had at the start of this tour again.
G just wasn't in the same shape this year. Last year he was crushing the best climbers in the world, this year he was only just keeping pace with the second tier. I think Brailsford wants Froome to take another tour to break the record so expect Froome to lead next year and Bernal to take over from there.

Thanks for these threads @lunge.

A great edition of Le Tour. Wondering whether Alaphilippe's lone break would make it all the way to Paris. It's been a while since the top five have been so close, usually by halfway there's significant time gaps that just stretch out over the final week. A pity about the weather messing up the last two stages.

Just listening to the last two bespoked podcasts.

How many Yellow Jerseys does Bernal get? Is it two or three? If its two then he is joint least amount of time in yellow for an overall winner I think. Anyone confirm?

Happy to see Bardet crowned King of the Mountains and Bernal is here to stay, possibly a stronger rider than Froome - and you have to wonder what those injuries have done to him in the long term.

Happy to see Bardet crowned King of the Mountains

As much as I love Bardet, I can't quite figure out why he deserves the KOM jersey. I guess it's the competition that has been most affected by the route truncations. A bit of a shame.

Apart from that, what an incredible race. It was almost like watching a bunch of good 1 day classics back-to-back.

Speaking of which I was delighted to read that Alaphillipe isn't talking about targeting Grand Tours from now on, he's talking about Tour of Flanders. I'd much rather see him continue to rip races apart than adopt the patient, conservative approach needed for Grand Tours.

Actually, thinking about that, remember how exciting Geraint Thomas was to watch when he was a classics guy?

Bernal has three jerseys. He was bussed to the top of the stage for a very quiet presentation for his first.

I think two questions asked that need an answer: DQS and Bora find themselves as potential serious challengers for GC but both have historically been one day or stage winners. Where will they go next?

Jumbo Visma were the strongest team and didn’t seem to put more than a Tony Martin shaped foot wrong. Were impressive at playing the Ineos tempo game. I think they’ll be stronger next year.

And Then there is Movistar, lowest standard deviation In times, but seriously. What a mess. And all that money and talent.

Oh and more snapped Pinarellos.

Thought it was a great TdF. Shame for Thomas but given last nights interview on ITV4, he done his best this year and he is on the winning team. Pleased for Bernal and Ineos, also really pleased to see that the other teams can take it to them. Maybe next year for a French winner.

Thanks Lunge.

I think Gs form was OK, just Bernal was better in the high stages. I wonder who Ineos will pick to win it next year? If the course is very mountainous then Bernal has a good shout.

Real shame about the weather on the last couple of stages. It ruined Bernal's win for me. However loved seeing Bernal with his family at the end yesterday, and all the Colombians! I wonder if his bro rides... Great pictures of France as usual but my fave bit is always the camera alongside the sprint to the line 8)

& I usually have a fave bike but nothing stood out this year.

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/pro-bike/tour-de-france-bikes/

Bernal has three jerseys. He was bussed to the top of the stage for a very quiet presentation for his first.

Yes, but only wore it for two days. Does that mean he won with two jerseys or three?

INEOS/Team Sky's dominance is similar that to Man United in the 90s - a lot of it is psychological, I think many of the other teams are beaten before the racing has already started, even though on paper there isn't much of a gulf.
The only thing that would change it is if there is a major unexpected problem at INEOS like two riders crashing or one of the other teams signs a rider of the quality of say, ahem, Bernal.

Last day was handled perfectly. Beautiful end to an exciting, if at times frustrating, Tour. Columbian fans were top.

There's talk of Tom Dumoulin moving to Jumbo Vismo at the end of the season. JV did a pretty good job of matching Ineos on the last few days so it's possible there'll be a bit more fireworks next year.

Bernal defended the jersey for two days. So yes he spent only two in yellow.

Thanks to lunge & co for the threads.
Now the dust has settled I think the way it finished was a bit of an anticlimax due to the understandable changes.
Best bits - Simon Yates’ stage wins and Bradley Wiggins as a pundit-clearly a massive cycling fanboy.
Does G Thomas have a chance in Harrogate?
My fave bike was Simon Yates’ stealth Scott.

I think other teams and ASO have a major problem now as it feels like Ineos has a lock on the next decade of Grand Tours with GT winners like Bernal and Carapaz and the new crop of superb riders like Sivakov and Hart. Whatever the course they'll have an answer.

I do feel for G, I think he may well have put a bit of pressure on Bernal if the last 2 mountain stages had been full length. Saying that, there's an equal chance that he would have blown up and fallen off the podium.

Feel for George Bennett too, look so strong then got caught up getting bottles and ended up losing loads of time.

Pinot was magnificent, and maybe, just maybe could have won it. Maybe next year...maybe

Geraint was saying that he'd experienced a few lows.
After Geraint's crash in Tour de Suisse and being taken home it must have affected his performance, the 3 crashes in TdF and the expelling of team capt Luke Rowe, also all clearly had an affect. I believe he can win another grand tour, he's such a good intelligent rider, calm and had really grown up in the last couple of years. Coming second was still fabulous.

Sad that Dimension Data didn't take Cav and that they didn't have the best tour. Edvald as ever did his best.

Gutted for Pinot (I actually shed a tear)

I love watching JA ride, its refreshing.

The Yates twins are going to go far.

The Wellens and de Gendt (one of my all time favourite riders) twins were great to watch.

Up until the weather not playing ball the whole race was exciting and never boring.

Wanty - always in the break.

Congratulations to Bernal, what a fabulous young talent and I too was wondering if Ronald will be as good as his big brother in years to come.

Thanks also to Lunge. I learn new things every year from your threads. x

Ineos has a lock on the next decade of Grand Tours with GT winners like Bernal and Carapaz

Wait till the Yates twins want to come home! Four GT winners in the team next year is an embarrassment of riches.

The problem comes with having so many in the team that some people don't want to play 2nd fiddle in the TDF so they're going to have to leave to get leader status if they want the TDF, sure they'll get the Vuelta or Giro... but will that be enough for them ?

The problem comes with having so many in the team that some people don’t want to play 2nd fiddle in the TDF so they’re going to have to leave to get leader status if they want the TDF,

I'd guess you don't join Ineos and not know that's the case. They have Bernal, Thomas, Carapaz next year and Froome already, add in Sivikov, Geoghegan-Hart, Poels, Kwaito maybe and you have some serious grand tour talent.

I still feel that the injuries suffered by Froome will see him out of racing grand tours for more than a year.
If he ends up with vascular necrosis then it will be a long recovery (this because of his hip fracture). Unfortunately no amount of health care or money can prevent this, although the chances are slim.

Brilliant to see Alaphilippe, the course itself and Bernal too, changing the way the race was raced. The most exciting Tour for ages even with the last couple of days. I can only think of one boring sprint stage, everything else buzzed.

Pinot's implosion was utterly predictable. He's DNFed in six GTs out of twelve starts, for perspective Thomas, Froome and Nibali have three DNFs each in 12, 15 and 22 grand tours respectively. Don't get me wrong, he's a talented rider, but he's not durable and no-one seems to be helping him address that. Also the emotional meltdown interview after losing that time in the wind seemed self indulgent in a 'wah, it's so unfair sort of way'. You can't imagine Froome doing that.

The immediate assumption that Alaphilippe was doping by a fair number of watchers is a sad comment on where the sport is. Likewise the lazy stereotyped assertions that IneoSky were stifling the race by riding on the front when they clearly weren't do anything of the sort most of the time.

Still baffled by Movistar who seem more like a loose collection of individuals than a team - I mean, what was Vaverde riding for? Who was the leader? Why did they seemingly intentionally drop Quintana?

Lastly how good is Egan Bernal and what will it do to the way Ineos races GTs over the next few years. Remember watching him attack on the Tour of California last year and just fly, ditto on the ITT at Romandie last year where he was so insanely quick on what was basically a hill climb that a big chunk of the field missed the cut-off. Great to see him unleashed at a GT, is it possible that he'll also ride the Vuelta? There's a month to recover and he didn't look remotely tired in the final week of the Tour. Or G? Wonder if he's tempted.

Finally and most importantly when will commentators, pundits and podcasters work out that there's no 'U' in Colombia. That second syllable is 'om' not 'um. Just so lazy 🙂

I still feel that the injuries suffered by Froome will see him out of racing grand tours for more than a year.

I think you have to remember that elite athletes not only have access to the best medical care available, they're also stupidly motivated in a way that normal people aren't, so they work incredibly hard when it comes to rehab and recovery. When Luke Rowe smashed his leg up jumping into shallow water on his brother's stag do, he was told that he might never ride a bike again, let alone compete at an elite level. Six months later he was back racing at World Tour level.

I'm not saying that Froome will definitely recover fully, but I don't think you can judge him by normal standards.

add in Sivikov, Geoghegan-Hart, Poels, Kwaito

I don't know, but i suspect they are already paid a premium to stay with Sky. Only they know if it's worth leaving to chase the glory or if paying the mortgage is enough for them.

Porte hasn't done too well in GTs since he left...

You can’t imagine Froome doing that.

Except for when he spat his dummy and cried about riders attacking him on decent (cant remember the year, 2015?)

I don’t know, but i suspect they are already paid a premium to stay with Sky. Only they know if it’s worth leaving to chase the glory or if paying the mortgage is enough for them.

Sivakov and Tao were joint leaders at the Giro. Bernal, at 22 just won the Tour de France. There's no obvious leader for the Vuelta this year. Landa had the opportunity to lead the Giro team twice - it's why they brought him in - but was ill the first year and crashed the second, he was basically unfortunate. There's this idea that there are no opportunities for young riders at Sky / Ineos, but I'm not sure it actually holds water. Maybe if you only consider the Tour de France, but there's only ever going to be one winner of that.

The immediate assumption that Alaphilippe was doping by a fair number of watchers is a sad comment on where the sport is. 

More a sad indictment of where some people are 🙁. Vigilance is good, there'll always be some who try to cheat, but the sport has moved on tremendously. The comments about Allaphilippe from the usual suspects were a real low !!

Except for when he spat his dummy and cried about riders attacking him on decent (cant remember the year, 2015?)

Don't remember that. I remember him getting angry with other riders, what I found a bit worrying about Pinot was that it bordered a little bit on self pity. To be fair, it did eventually seem to make him ride in quite an angry, passionate way. But my main point, that he doesn't seem durable enough for three-week races seems reasonable. It's a shame because he's such a brilliant climber and appears to be a really nice guy.

I do wonder if salary caps for a grand tour team is the awy to go

I think this needs to happen. Even with Ineos rider issues they could still field a stronger team than others.
It’s clear they are able to buy the TDF.

There’s no obvious leader for the Vuelta this year

Froome

More a sad indictment of where some people are 🙁. Vigilance is good, there’ll always be some who try to cheat, but the sport has moved on tremendously.

.......Nairo knocked a minute off the fastest ever ascent of the Galibier a couple of days after getting dropped on the Tourmalet

Somewhat ironic that Movistar won the team prize when they didn't seem to ride as a team at all................

I thought it was an excellent TdF. Some great stages, great racing, deserving winner.

Actually, thinking about that, remember how exciting Geraint Thomas was to watch when he was a classics guy?

I would love to see G do a full classics season next year.

…….Nairo knocked a minute off the fastest ever ascent of the Galibier a couple of days after getting dropped on the Tourmalet

with a significant tailwind.

Nairo knocked a minute off the fastest ever ascent of the Galibier a couple of days after getting dropped on the Tourmalet

There was a significant tailwind up it.
Thing is, riders are not doing that day after day. They'll have a couple of good days interspersed with many more average days - like NQ who was more or less invisible for a lot of the climbs.

JA fell to pieces in the Alps but was a mix of tactically astute and plain old stubborn in the early / middle part of the Tour.

Nibali managed one decent attack. None of it was day after day attacking which sort of indicates a much cleaner peloton now.

Really enjoyed both these threads ( Thanks Lunge ) and the whole Tour.
IN my opinion one of the best for years.

Look forward ( fingers crossed ) to seeing Alaphillipe in Harrogate in September, I reckon the course could suit him based on how he rode the tour.
Last major climb is a long way out and the last 98 Kms is on the fairly technical Harrogate circuit which should favour a small group ( or solo ) going off the front with maybe 2,3 or even 4 laps to go

natrix

Member

Somewhat ironic that Movistar won the team prize when they didn’t seem to ride as a team at all…………….

Very good point. As a team they have Quintana (apparently definitely certainly going to win the Tour, we hear every year), Landa and Valverde, and yet between them they won one stage all race.

It struck me this year how many former Sky domestiques are out there, mostly underachieving.
Porte: was fairly anonymous throughout, but must have been relieved to make it through without serious injury.
Landa: left to be the team principal somewhere else and ended up at Movistar
Boassan Hagen, Uran, Viviani, etc.

It struck me this year how many former Sky domestiques are out there, mostly underachieving.
Porte: was fairly anonymous throughout, but must have been relieved to make it through without serious injury.
Landa: left to be the team principal somewhere else and ended up at Movistar
Boassan Hagen, Uran, Viviani, etc.

Be interesting to see if they keep losing high profile "CG rider as domestique" type riders, seeing as the last two tour winners have been Ineos domestiques!

Fabulous watching Alaphillipe tear up the race. Froome's absence definitely made for more open racing, but think it equally demonstrates his strength and tenacity. I am sure he will be back next year and G will need to look at the Vuelta or Giro for his next Grand Tours.

Nairo knocked a minute off the fastest ever ascent of the Galibier a couple of days after getting dropped on the Tourmalet

Write it the other way around, Nairo only rode half the Tourmalet at race pace and beat everyone up Galibier a couple of days later and it doesn't sound so bad.

Got a link to the top 10 or anything? Be interesting to see who else (and what drugs) are up there.

INEOS have a huge decision to make regarding Froome, I suspect it will come down to fitness tests to see whether they want to build the team around him again. He is going to be 35 for the next TdF. Would he be happy playing second fiddle to Bernal? If not, he could be off to ride for another team, now that would be interesting.

It struck me this year how many former Sky domestiques are out there, mostly underachieving.
Porte: was fairly anonymous throughout, but must have been relieved to make it through without serious injury.
Landa: left to be the team principal somewhere else and ended up at Movistar
Boassan Hagen, Uran, Viviani, etc.

Uran - Giro podium, multiple top ten overalls in the tour
Viviani - TDF stage and monument winner
Porte - Winner of multiple World tour races since he left Sky, TDF contender who's had two serious crashes take him out of contention

Porte - Stagnated at best. Always flattered to deceive, but not a grand tour contender and should likely focus on 1 week races
Viviani - Improved. Gone from a "house sprinter" to a real contender
Uran - Improved. Now a grand tour contneder.
Landa - Who knows. Always looks strong but I'm not sure Movistar's tactics bring out the best of him.
EBH - Stagnated - Always good for a sprint but never really in the mix.

=

Be interesting to see if they keep losing high profile “CG rider as domestique” type riders, seeing as the last two tour winners have been Ineos domestiques!

That's a fair point, but I think the original point being made was that Sky/Ineos domestiques never function quite as well once they lose the support of that team. There are so many claims that Rider X would be a grand tour winning team leader if Sky/Ineos hadn't bought him, but they never seem to win much once they've left Skineos. Obviously they don't carry all the info about marginal gains with them. Or enough cash to buy everything they need. 😀

Viviani – TDF stage and monument winner

WHile the point stands that Viviani has improved since leaving sky (as you would expect going from a GC-centred team to a one-day team that suits him more), he hasn't won a monument.

As for Nairo Quintana - my reading is that he's been unhappy at Movistar for a few years. Movistar seem to be treating him more as a nuisance than a contender. Hopefully a move elsewhere will let him race the way he wants to (and most likely not for overall GC).

Porte – Winner of multiple World tour races since he left Sky, TDF contender who’s had two serious crashes take him out of contention

2016
2nd Overall Tour Down Under
1st Stage 5
2nd Time trial, National Road Championships
3rd Overall Paris–Nice
4th Overall Volta a Catalunya
4th Overall Critérium du Dauphiné
5th Overall Tour de France
7th UCI World Tour
2017
1st Overall Tour Down Under
1st Stages 2 & 5
1st Overall Tour de Romandie
1st Stage 7 Paris–Nice
2nd Overall Critérium du Dauphiné
1st Stage 4 (ITT)
2018
1st Overall Tour de Suisse
1st Stage 1 (TTT)
1st Stage 3 (TTT) Tour de France
2nd Overall Tour Down Under
1st Stage 5
3rd Time trial, National Road Championships
3rd Overall Tour de Romandie
2019
2nd Overall Tour Down Under
1st Stage 6
5th Overall Tour of California
5th Overall Herald Sun Tour

He's not really a truly great rider, is he!

Uran – Improved. Now a grand tour contneder.

He was second in the 2013 Giro behind Nibali, so he was arguably already a GT contender.

Landa's an odd one. He seems pretty consistently the same at Astana, Sky and now Movistar. A brilliant climber who always seems to lose time early on and then play catch up with a slightly aggrieved look on his face.

On a completely different note...

When Bernal crossed the finish line yesterday and met his family, he did a little choreographed hand/chest tapping thing with two of them. Anyone know if this is a Colombian thing, religious thing?

That’s a fair point, but I think the original point being made was that Sky/Ineos domestiques never function quite as well once they lose the support of that team.

Exactly - and in the past the argument was that Sky did so well because they had basically team principals as domestiques. Their budget undoubtedly skewed the teams' dynamic (any really good domestiques could be poached by Sky, so perhaps the other teams weren't as strong as they could be); but if their budget advantage gradually shrinks as Ineos, it'll be a fascinating few years seeing that dynamic unwind. And we may get a sense of whether they truly ARE all Tour contenders, or were just in a team that really got the best from them.

Random question: who watched this year's Tour and thought there's a space for Cavendish to come back and win his 4(?) additional stages?

Random question: who watched this year’s Tour and thought there’s a space for Cavendish to come back and win his 4(?) additional stages?

Me. No real standout sprinters out there, Ewan is good as is Groenewegen but Viviani I'm not sure about and Sagan was never a consistent bunch sprint winner.
But then is this just rose tinted glasses, as I fear he just hasn't got he kick anymore and he isn't versatile enough to turn to a different style of winning.

The question is do Ineos pay enough to prevent otherwise potential GC contenders to curb their ambitions? Or do they develop riders to become GC contenders who then subsequently are seeded off to competitors to realise their ambitions. I think it’s a bit of both Thomas could have jumped a couple of years ago, but he’s obviously a team player and they have a strong team. If he had been in Movistar? Richie Porte was a stellar domestique and it was clear that if he were to realise team leadership he’d have to leave. No bad feelings (he’s Froome’s best mate after all). But a natural progression for him. In a team as strong as Sky he may have done even better than he has. He was team leader for the Vuelta a few years back.

I think it’s pretty healthy with regards to overall peloton. The Yates brothers were told by Sky it would be better for them to be in another team for their GC ambitions. They made their choice and cycling is richer for it.

And one last point for Eurosport viewers, I’ve enjoyed Wiggins commentary despite not being a fan of his. Clearly first time back to the tour, the beat competition for years, and his enthusiasm is palpable. Of course Froome was absent too 😉

Sprints seemed more chaotic this year, the sprinters were watching each other and trying to get the right wheel rather than sitting on their trains. Possibly down to smaller team sizes, possibly down to them being more closely matched, possibly less straight flat finishes to get organized.
Far less crashes in the sprints this year it seemed.

Random question: who watched this year’s Tour and thought there’s a space for Cavendish to come back and win his 4(?) additional stages?

Top result this year was a 3rd on stage three of the tour of Turkey.

It'd be great for him to come back but I can't see him coming back on form that would be that dominant.

And one last point for Eurosport viewers, I’ve enjoyed Wiggins commentary despite not being a fan of his. Clearly first time back to the tour, the beat competition for years, and his enthusiasm is palpable. Of course Froome was absent too 😉

I just cant listen to Sean Kelly!

He was team leader for the Vuelta a few years back.

I've been wondering who will be going to the Vuelta this year. Every big rider seems to have ridden endless GTs or be injured, except for DuMoulin. It starts three weeks this coming Saturday, so not much time for recovery after the Tour.

And one last point for Eurosport viewers, I’ve enjoyed Wiggins commentary despite not being a fan of his.

I enjoyed his commentary, and loved his drunken chat yesterday. (Quick Step have the worst champagne!). It's all about Brad, though, and Bryan Smith occasionally seemed to irritated with him. Talking of which, when Smith said that he'd been inspired by watching Robert Millar, I suddenly realised that he's not ten years older than me, only a year. God, I feel old!

Maybe Ineos could do a Red Bull/ Torro Rosso type thing 😉

I was surprised how small the Ineos / Sky budget was. €35-40mil. I know its bigger than everyone else's but its pocket change for a Saudi Prince etc! Tiny compared to football or F1.

I was surprised how small the Ineos / Sky budget was. €35-40mil.

It seems to be pretty much twice what the nearest teams bring in:

His Sunweb team’s budget is estimated to have a budget of $19 million, roughly half of Sky’s. Similarly, the Spanish Movistar team are estimated to have a budget of $14-16 million, less than half of that $40 million war chest.

***************************

Unlike Sky with €39.1 million (£34.5million) budget, Quick-Step runs on an estimated €18 million (or £15.9m)

.

I hope the fad of big stupid looking glasses disappears before next year as well..... Bernal looks like some sort of eighties vision of the future!

Even though Skineos buy riders in, Sir Dave was saying they enjoy bringing up their own young riders through the ranks.

It reminded me of the 'Busby Babes' back in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's of Man united.

Inrng have just released their write, and top class it is too.
http://inrng.com/2019/07/the-moment-the-tour-de-france-was-won-2019/

When Bernal crossed the finish line yesterday and met his family, he did a little choreographed hand/chest tapping thing with two of them. Anyone know if this is a Colombian thing, religious thing?

Wasn't it just the Catholic thing of crossing yourself, but actually crossing your brother / mum etc? It's a country where people applaud when a plane lands successfully and Easter is marked by carrying huge religious statues through the streets, this sort of thing. It's kind of ace...

On the Cav front, Dimension Data were so collectively awful that they might as well have taken him just on the off chance tbf.

Got a link to the top 10 or anything? Be interesting to see who else (and what drugs) are up there.

2019:8,6 km@6,8%---22:26---average speed 23.00 km/h(Nairo Quintana)-RECORD
---23:00---average speed 22.43 km/h(Egan Bernal)
---23:30---average speed 21.96 km/h(Pinot-Landa-Uran-Thomas)
---23:48---average speed 21.68 km/h(Julian Alaphilippe)
2011:8,6 km@6,8%---23:36---average speed 21.86 km/h(Frank Schleck)
2008:8,6 km@6,8%---26:32---average speed 19.45 km/h(Kohl-Voeckler-Augustyn)
---27:05---average speed 19.05 km/h(80 riders peloton)
2006:8,6 km@6,8%---25:00---average speed 20.64 km/h(Michael Rasmussen)
---25:36---average speed 20.16 km/h(50 riders peloton)
2002:8,6 km@6,8%---25:52---average speed 19.95 km/h(Santiago Botero)
---26:54---average speed 19.18 km/h(Peloton)
2000:8,6 km@6,8%---25:40---average speed 20.10 km/h(Herve-Botero-Conti)
---25:50---average speed 19.97 km/h(30 riders peloton)

The problem is that even though Sky/Ineos have been dominant for quite a few years - their style is all about marginal gains ... they win, and often by a comfortable margin, but its not an exciting style.

I really think the fact they are operating at over double the budget of the other top teams needs addressing. One reason it was not taken before was because the Sky and Ineos money into the sport was a good thing. Where as now I believe they need to look at whats best for the spectator and selling the sport.
If they couldnt buy all the top talent then other teams would have a more equal team, which would make it more than waiting to see if Sky/Ineos have bad luck to other teams can get lucky.

As good as Bernal is; I am not convinced he is as good yet as he is being hyped. He came strong at the end of the tour - but didnt show too much in the beginning. Its still very early days.

Sprints seemed more chaotic this year, the sprinters were watching each other and trying to get the right wheel rather than sitting on their trains. Possibly down to smaller team sizes, possibly down to them being more closely matched, possibly less straight flat finishes to get organized.
Far less crashes in the sprints this year it seemed.

It was really noticeable that Sagan was getting boxed in in the sprint finishes - which Cav really doesn't do well with. And seeing Caleb Ewan (for example) power through it seemed tough to imagine Cavendish could come back and win stages. I'd love to see it though!

As good as Bernal is; I am not convinced he is as good yet as he is being hyped. He came strong at the end of the tour – but didnt show too much in the beginning. Its still very early days.

I agree to a certain extent. If the TdF had one more ITT would Bernal have won? Almost certainly not. And he possibly wouldn’t even have made it onto the podium, especially if the TTs had been longer.

Unfortunately, I think this TdF was designed for Pinot’s strengths, and to disadvantage Froome and G. Of course, it doesn’t help that Pinot can’t race his bike for three weeks.

And seeing Caleb Ewan (for example) power through it seemed tough to imagine Cavendish could come back and win stages. I’d love to see it though!

You know what, I reckon Cav could have got a stage or two there. There was little in the way of coordinated sprint leadout trains - too many riders now doubling up on looking after a team leader plus it's down to 8-man teams now so not a lot of spare bodies to burn through.

Mike Teunissen - good win but not a name you'd have picked out.
Peter Sagan won from a reduced bunch sprint and - having seen who was in it - you'd have been pretty daft to pick anyone else.
Dylan Groenewegen / Elia Viviani - one stage each, decent enough wins.
Caleb Ewan - three stage wins and clearly the fastest man in the bunch but kind of unrewarded by - oh I dunno - a green jersey maybe??
Edvad Boassen Hagen - only really popped his head above the parapet by going far too early on the Champs Elysees.
Andre Greipel - I literally would not have know he was in the race had he not been mentioned by the commentators.
Michael Matthews - kind of got unlucky and out of position a few times but not really a contender

There weren't many sprinters there, the ones that were seemed to be looking out for each other rather than any form of leadout train and all trying to get on Sagan's wheel. Cav can wheel surf with the best of them and he'd have given Dimension Data at least some sort of presence in the finish given that the rest of the time they were pretty anonymous.

IdleJon

Subscriber

Unfortunately, I think this TdF was designed for Pinot’s strengths, and to disadvantage Froome and G. Of course, it doesn’t help that Pinot can’t race his bike for three weeks.

I think we may see more down hill finishes next year; they would certainly benefit Alaphilippe.

Have there been any jokes yet about the landslides having been caused by fracking and the freak weather being a product of the petro-chemical industry?

Rumour is next year all cyclists have to carry a baguette and wear an onion necklace to handicap the non-French riders.

I think we may see more down hill finishes next year; they would certainly benefit Alaphilippe.

Summit starts.

I wouldn`t be surprised to see Thomas in this years Vuelta. To be honest Bernal or Thomas didnt look anything like as spent as the other top 5 guys.

I think Bernal will be entered in the Giro next year, and TDF with Froome (as long as Froome is fixed by then of course).
Thomas will be back to his usual donkey/domestique role in the TDF, and then just counting down the days till his contract ends and his retirement. He will be very supporting the up and coming guys from next year.

Summit starts.

Megavalanche on the road!!!

A

To Lunge for creating these threads, Klunk and nbt for stepping in too.. It's been a pleasure to contribute and see so many other tap something out too..

Have I enjoyed the race? Yes, I have. Pretty much every day without an ITT or TT in it I've managed to watch, whether in the background or just chilling on the sofa after a run.

Has it been an open race? Yes, I think it has. It really wasn't decided until the last few days. the ITT and TT didn't really claim all those points/time that some of the favourite riders rely upon. A mixed field with some teams fairly well matched in ambition and skill. The only real team that came ultimately prepared was Skyneos.. And you'd expect that. As soon as Froome was out it became a bit of a 2 horse race in that squad. I for one didn't think Bernal would make the grade, expected Thomas to start the "I'm the leader" finger pointing that's so prevalent in the Squads that turn up... and that was a massive surprise to me. All the team know where they sit in the pecking order, their place and what they do.. rarely do they break the mould, and it didn't really show it's metronomic face at all. Maybe because Thomas and Bernal were so in tune with each other and possibly the same fitness levels.. But thank fully Skneos didn't block the road as much as they have done in the past.. and thats a good thing. I don't think Skneos were lacking that mentality, I think the other teams are pretty sick of it and have built squads around breaking the stranglehold. And the race is better for it.

FDJ, well I was gutted for Pinot. Blimey if ever there was a Guy that breaks himself physically and mentally at this race its him. I called him fragile in the other thread, thats pretty harsh from me and I apologise. He's a rider of the quality I like, a solid rouleur who can take on the main protagonists.. and I prefer that type of squad and the teams that ride around him. Such shame he unclipped, he was doing so well and a Nation was torn between 3 baroudeurs.. him, Allaphiliipe and Bardet. A fag paper between them in ability, yet Alla held on to the lit end until the Alps, when the rest of the teams were riding into form, he started to fade.

DQS, brilliant tour, possibly the best yet. Dilemma for them is to build a squad that breaks from stage wins to winning the tour. Very solid and gratifying to see Alla challenge and chase and ride the yellow jumper with such panache and grit. Great performance and clearly the performance of the tour (certainly in my eyes) Gracious and unfaltering until the Alps, and to be fair he put a fight in until he couldn<span lang="EN-US">’</span><span lang="EN-US">t ride a round ring, but found a few square ones someone had slipped in overnight.</span>

TrekSF, who? what? they turned up? Did they, or really turned up with some great riders who seem to have turned down the wick somewhat. Portes performance is clearly on the downward trend, one thats now in jeopardy as a leader IMO, talented but why the drop in form and it was pretty clear drop in form. Styven clearly has the edge and could become the chosen one, and should IMO. I<span lang="EN-US">’</span>m left scratching my head still.

Samsec, Yeah! Barguil. Brilliant, utterly back on form. And after a few years of wayward meandering thats brilliant to see. He was even laughing and smiling again.. They always turn up with stages in mind like most squads.. but they ride with typical Brittany grit. Best squad of the Tour? might be, might be. Certainly on the up and thats going to help with confidence, now they need a mid squad lift and they could be worthy of a top 5 placement.

Wanty, yeah well we know what they're here for and thats kinda sad. Yet this time Offredo battled most breaks and actually performed exceptionally well,  all things considered. It<span lang="EN-US">’</span>s tough for them, belittled for always being in the break, and always questioned as to <span lang="EN-US">“</span>why?<span lang="EN-US">”</span>Advertisings a cruel sport innit.

CCC, what happened Greg? A punt off the front for 200mtrs on the CElys? Nah.. should have stayed in the pack. But what about the northern stages eh? Hardly did anything of significance. and yet the talent is there Schar is utterly brilliant, Geschke is a stunning rider yet where was the cohesive gel? Missing sadly. They've got to look at what they're there for, clearly its not the tour win, so if its stages work on that.. the moneys there, the skills are there so come boys..

Bora, the Sagan circus is it's own playground. Depth of talent (similar to CCC) is vast, Oss/Burghardt for starters.. quite why they don't work cohesively for stage wins is baffling.. Only when Buchmann punted off did they take notice and start to break ranks. It took a startled Sagan to realise the kids talent 2/3'rds through the race.. too late chuckle brother.

Sunweb, Mathews.. yeah brilliant. Who else was there? where was the stage wins? where were those breaks that really should have been filled with sunweb riders... talents there, but the want to be there's been lost.

Cofidis.... erm... wild card team, what happened to them? barely anywhere other than mid pack. If Trek don't buck themselves up they'll be taking over from Cofidis if they loose attention. Every year I plub for them, like AG2R they at least try to fill a squad of French riders, got to believe in that<span lang="EN-US">…</span><span lang="EN-US">I still do, do they?</span>

AG2R, the performance of the Tour IMO. Bardet fragile, but he's back to form. Took the last 3rd of the race to get there but when they did ride into form they performed brilliantly. Well done Bardet.. my outside favourite.

Bahrain, solid performance considering Nibbles is off to Trek (!) Teuns was the outstanding IMO, solid performance squad and fairly diverse as well.. well worth turning up... Challengers of the old scholl mould, but the school has gone all ipad and they’re still writing with a pen. Who will fill the ranks when Nibs goes?

DD, sadly sounds like most of them were ill. Got to be a shit feeling after all that work eh. Could of them made a break or two, but thats it until the last sprint when EbH realised what he's capable of. Too little, to late.

JV, yeah quite an interesting tour all told. mid pack riders for a mid pack sensibility. Steven had a solid bound by bungie to Thomas the whole rideout. Bennet and Groenewegen did exceptionally well.. thankfully they're still young enough to flourish if the management of the team let them do so and not build a squad around Steven all the time..

KA, Pollit and Zakarin did brilliantly, as they always do. They're due to fold it seems, I can only think Cofidis could snaffle them up and re-invet that squad.. doubtful they'll go there (maybe Barhain) and I hope a squad take both riders.. keep them together, the compliment each others style really well.

EF, I've totally gone off Uran. Stroppy bloke he is. Carthy did ok, but again they always seem to be stuck to Skineos<span lang="EN-US">’</span>s seat pin. Why not try to break out of that mould and get in the breaks more, create some rouleurs (or let those off the leash for a bit)

Astana, Fraile did well, but loosing Fuglsang and LLS so early on left them at a loss as what to do. Another squad on the decline like Trek and at some point in the near future is reckon they<span lang="EN-US">’</span>ll close the tour bus door for the last time.

Lotto, always brilliant and always reliable for a stage win and massive attack(s) I do wonder what will happen when TdG roll<span lang="EN-US">’</span>s his last one.. but they do have Wellens and Ewan for the flats and the bumps.. Never really gelled with Ewan, but he<span lang="EN-US">’</span>s a great sprinter of world class performance so long may that last.. Wellens did exceptionally well, humble and yet driven..

M-Scott<span lang="EN-US">…</span>a team I<span lang="EN-US">’</span>ve never really liked, made worse because those helmets don<span lang="EN-US">’</span>t fit the Yates brothers.. ok, they<span lang="EN-US">’</span>re smaller than your average rider but that shouldn<span lang="EN-US">’</span>t mean they wear a helmet made for Kristoff.. which brings me to

UAE. Aru is in the wrong team. Simples, move please to another squad where you have some support and guidance. We know you<span lang="EN-US">’</span>ve got the legs and the ability, pop on over to Trek or SunWeb and pull one out of the bag.. Kristoff seems past his great best. I always think he<span lang="EN-US">’</span>s a bit sensitive these days, the killer sprinter is still there.. where are the elbows?

Movboys, erm.. always the team to win the team. Fractures and I think broken promises within the team seem to have split them up.. Valvpiti is really just a road captain now, and he should relish that fact not challenge it. Landa should have been left to rideout years ago, but Sky kept the lid on him and Astana couldn<span lang="EN-US">’</span>t support him. He<span lang="EN-US">’</span>s a little past the post now unless stage wins are the goal. Quintana is off somewhere else, and that showed. A clip of them celebrating him stage win showed many of the team still chatting to their mates rather than watch a cork pop out of a bottle of fizz. And that<span lang="EN-US">’</span>s it really, broken cohesion and riders who just maybe bored or riding together.

Fin.

And a great Fin it was too.

(all the better without Froomidge)

Quite alot of "span lang" in there for me Bikebuoy , but I agree.
🙂
"Bryan Smith occasionally seemed to irritated with him." this also - amused me several times.