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I rode Cafall at Cwmcarn yesterday. Probably done that first climb 7 or 8 times since it opened. Takes me about the same time to get to the top at it done to climb Whytes at Afan. I reckon Cafel is harder - certainly aerobically.
Got me thinking, what is the hardest single climb in a trail centre. Not ridden them all but the one to the mast at Glentress goes on a while from memory.
What do we think then? It's pretty subjective - I find changes in gradient do not play well with my asthma. I'd much rather be grunting up something for a long time at a constant gradient (which is what most of Whytes feels like) than having to put in big efforts to sprint up the steeper parts.
Anyway.. over to you
That one above from you at Cwmcarn, done it once and never been back.... It's a horrible horrible climb.
I find Whytes harder than the Wall or Penhydd.
I hated the whole Cafall train first time I rode it when it was about a week old. Muddy slog and the downs didn't seem worth the endless climbing. More I ride it tho, more I like it. The descents are brilliant - everyone a bit different.
Interesting - or not - Whytes is 244m of climbing, Cafall 222mm. Distance wise they are similar but Cafall just feels harder and longer.
The wall is a brilliant climb. Ever since the 'elevator' went in, I actually quite enjoy it apart from the one very steep fireroad slog.
I'm the opposite to you - i think the variation in climbs is more interesting - a quick nip here, slow down tehre, bit of trialzzz skilzzz needed at certain points.
Beats a dull fireroad climb any day.
I know this didn't answer your question did it..
erm, not sure
DrP
The most technical trail centre climb and therefore hardest to do clean that I have done is the Lactic Ladder at Golspie. It's also fairly physically demanding being quite long by the time you get to the monument.
Never ridden that. Interesting twist tho as th other climb at Cwmcarn on the Twrch trail is also hard to clean without a dab. There's nothing on Cafall to stop you racing up it other than lungs and legs!
Oh and DrP - I'm not a fan of fireroad climbs at all. If every climb was like the elevator on the Wall, I'd be a happy man. It does need some upmty at various parts but just seems to give up its metres more easily... like i say it's always going to be totally subjective...
Ever since the 'elevator' went in
the what ?
Golspie the black trail
@weeksy - first singletrack climb after you cross the river. Back in the day you had to slog up the fireroad. The elevator basically cuts out a few fire-road swtichbacks...
Hardest I've tried is probably some of the sections on The Raven at Brechfa, it's sort-of fireroad, but I'd be amazed to see the vehicle that could make it - it's got deep ruts eroded into it and it snakes the whole way whilst being, on the face of it at least - vertical.
I don't mind fireroad climbs, they'll always been a means to an end to me and I'm usually in a group, if we can spin up 3-4 abreast having a chat, that suits me fine.
Hardest trail centre climb that I've done is the Black climb/Weird Woods at Stainburn. Steep and techy, a real challenge to get up without dabbing.
Alex - Member
@weeksy - first singletrack climb after you cross the river. Back in the day you had to slog up the fireroad. The elevator basically cuts out a few fire-road swtichbacks...
You now cross at the bridge then ? I don't have to make the 2-3 mile loop along and then back on the flat ? I took the bridge once a few years back but i don't think then it was strictly allowed.
I found the climb at the new section at the marin quite tough short but its quite a long way into the loop if you start from the Llanrwst side. Some bloody tight switch backs early on, narrow, muddy and overgrown when I did it, some of the 29ers riders were complaining it was too tight (oh how the designer must have giggled 😉 ) and just pushed straight up the middle of the section.
+1 For the new section on the Marin,cracking little climb!
I can't believe no one has said one of the climbs on Follow the Dog at Cannock 😆
Great question and I'm struggling to think of an answer. Trail centres, by their very nature of being designed to be ridden, have easy climbs compared to many local "natural" climbs near me that I always struggle to clean.
The one that I got little joy out of and little reward was at Llandegla, but *not* the initial fireroad climb which I thought was quite a pleasant way to warm up. Nope, I'm talking about the second half of the (red?) trail which seems to be an endless meander of mostly up and little down. All the fun has been had and it just feels like a tedious slog back to the start. It's a shame I feel this way, because compared to other trail centres it is at least moderately interesting climbing. Must go back and see if I feel different now....
I'll submit the Kirrougtree climb to the top of Black Craig......
Long and steep in part, techy in others.....
But the reward is excellent!
Cafall climb is great - tough in parts but quite rollercoaster-y
They've made it a lot more interesting than a straight fireroad climb and I was able to clear it with low levels of fitness (wasn't easy tho)
Simon has it in my opinion. Stainburn black climb is a bugger
Interesting thread, I love a tough technical climb. Spent a fair ammount of time at Cwmcarn, I love the climbs there. Some nice technical bits to keep things exciting. Would lobe to hear of more trails with similar climbs
not the toughest but I find the first half of the Inners XC loop a really good climb, pretty long but just the right gradient with little bits of technical interest to keep you going
Its been a while but I do recall the first climb at Cwm Carn just feeling painful
And as for fireroad, the fireroad start at Llandegla, its not steep or difficult to get up but boy is it boring and really lets the place down, they really should look at putting something more interesting into that section rather than another BMX track type jumpy section further along
I hated the Twrch trail climb at Cwmcarn, a slog, and technical without being fun, it's a job to maintain momentum, rooty, rocky, stop start, just not fun at all.
I don't mind a big climb, even fire road slogs and loose ones, but that one on the Twrch I'm keen on returning to.
Golspie's a weird mix because Lactic Ladder is hard, and physical... And the last climb up to the top is usually grim too. But the rest of the climb is pretty charming and you get up surprisingly easy, considering you start at sea level and end up at 400 metres.
Kirroughtree black, from the road up to the start of Talnotry Hill, aaaargh. It's not so much massively hard as just soul destroying, I'm sure I [i]could [/i]ride it all in one go but I never will, I usually get halfway up the first bit and just go, **** it, I hate this.
+1 for golspie, although i always seem to struggle at innerleithen red as well
The great thing about Cwmcarn is that you can cheat a bit, skip some the climbs (in favour of fire road or actual road) without missing any downs. Even on Cafal.
+1 for Golspie can't think of a more technical section I've ridden which is also part of such a long climb overall. Can only deal with lactic ladder if have a decent breather right before and right after (cheat).
The climb at CyB with the steep-ish slog and then a steppy rock bit is quite tricky, think I have only cleaned it once when it was bone dry.
I'd agree with the mentions of Brechfa Raven & Stainburn too.
Sometimes I prefer the techy climbs to keep things interesting, and sometimes I prefer the fireroad slogs, so I can have a chat and look around. I used to like Whites climb, but its lost some of its charm since being felled and some of the steep bits have also been removed.
Not a trail centre, but for a well known ride, the rocky steep and narrow climb 2/3rds of the way round Howies Dyfi enduro in Mach is tough as you like! I'm always pushing up that!
Cwmcarns my local. Both Twrch and Cafall are nasty climbs. Steep techy and go on and on. The rest of south wales is tame by comparision!
You've just got to MTFU - the downs are worth it.
Nant yr Arian fireroad climb deserves the prize for most tedious..
Ah yes Nant-yr-arians "leg burner". 30 minutes of tedium.
I'll submit the Kirrougtree climb to the top of Black Craig...
seconded, on a hot day (a rare thing fo'shure) it's a killer
don't mind Whytes, I know it well enough to pace it, cwmcarn's not "that" bad either,
Marin has some long sloggy fireroads that seem to go on forever!
The 2 that stand out for me are Cafall at Cwmcarn & the road/fireroad climb towards the end of the Beast at Coedy Brenin. In both cases the descents were definitely worth the pain.
handybendyhendo - Member
I'll submit the Kirrougtree climb to the top of Black Craig......
Thirded, the only trail centre climb Ive had to walk up. It was murder.
Infact, until Talnotry I was thinking the whole of the black was a huge waste of a lie in. From there down more than made up for the nadgery tedium that preceeded it.
Thirded, the only trail centre climb Ive had to walk up. It was murder.
Really? Surprised so many hate that one. Heartbreak Hill isn't pleasant but I would do it all day compared to dragging myself up the Tower Climb at GT. [STW brag]I even middle-ringed it once[/STW brag] which admittedly did hurt quite a lot.
Heartbreak Hill isn't my favourite either but the reward is excellent :D.
I can still get up it at the wrong side of fifty.......
In my defence I've only ridden it once 😳
Will go back one day, but we tend to stay further over towards Dumfries these days so I've not been back to Kirri after the first time.
Don't worry, we'll all be riding e-bikes before long.
Don't find any of the South Wales trail centre climbs 'hard,' not in the 'I want to cry, why am I doing this, loosing traction again, fallen off, oh its too steep to get going again, going to push' kind of way, they are designed to be ridden after all.
Natural climbs are way way worse.
Natural climbs are way way worse.
probably, but you did read the thread title though, right?
probably, but you did read the thread title though, right?
Yes, but as I can't think of a trail centre climb I've ridden that I'd even class as tricky, I thought I'd voice my opinion, sorry if that's not allowed Mr Farage 😆
Is the route in the woods at Stainburn still there? The little climbs on that are *really* hard. Short but beyond my skill level, for sure.
Rachel
Another vote for Brechfa's Raven climb, properly tough. Not as techy as the climbs at Cwmcarn or Afan but it always gets me gasping and making mistakes. Could add the midway climb from the bottom of CYB's Tarw, from the bottom of snap, crackle and pop all the way to the viewpoint as a contender too, really demoralising as well as tough!
Actually love climbing as much as descending 😀
Yes, but as I can't think of a trail centre climb I've ridden that I'd even class as tricky,
swoons
I thought I'd voice my opinion, sorry if that's not allowed Mr Farage
fanks for your contribution, caller
I've only done it once but if my memory isn't playing tricks on me, the climb at the *gawr trail stung a fair bit.
*Other side of the hill from Afan, not big but it is fun!
Trail centres, by their very nature of being designed to be ridden, have easy climbs compared to many local "natural" climbs near me that I always struggle to clean.
True enough, but obviously still considered too difficult by some. The 'trickiest' sections of both Twych (a rooty section about half way up) and Whytes (a step up) both got removed a few years back. Never understood it - both were ridable with a bit of skill and can't have been considered dangerous.
The Cafell climb I find a drag - less to challenge/interest than Twych or the Afan trails but the decents are worth it. Whilst the most difficult climbs are definitely away from trail centres I tend to have a lot more fire road or dull doubletrack climbing on natural rides where generally try to go down all the best stuff.
I hated the Twrch trail climb at Cwmcarn, a slog, and technical without being fun, it's a job to maintain momentum, rooty, rocky, stop start, just not fun at all.
Where as I loved that old climb 😉 I like all of Cwm Carns 🙂 Great trail centre.
Definitely have a love/hate relationship with the Twrch climb.
I always find it a struggle but keep going back for more,and when you eventually get your peripheral vision back its a lovely scenic trail.
Only ever cleaned it once on a full-sus though.
Heartbreak Hill at Kirri is the first one that sprang to my mind - not technical but steep. Having said that I have a 2 from 2 record on it, whereas I frequently fail to clean the first climb at Grizedale - there's a tight corner followed by a rocky section about half way up that always catches me out
Funny, nothing at Kirroughtree really registered with me. A steep section after the road crossing but all over pretty quick I thought.
I've not ridden many centres south of the border but I'd be surprised if there was much as technical as Golspie. Certainly can't think of anything in Scotland as hard in that regard.
Yep Golspies Lactic ladder climb. A good test of balance, technique, stamina, legs, and lungs. I kind of enjoy it I a strange way.
Dalby, Black/WC Course
Climb from near bottom of medusa's drop to top of medusa's.
Not exceptionally hard but the start gets me, bad line out of the corner and your gonna stop, steep and slippy.
A lot of people walk up "k2" on Sutton Bank red route (although not technically a trail centre). I can do it, but my knees are never happy about it.
There's a but half-way round Mabie that does my nut in. Not unrideable but tiring coming so late.
Scotroutes
The stinger? Or scorpion or something.
That was my first thought to be honest, but I've not been beaten by that, heartbreak hill did me in, but I was on a worse bike
Back from lunch 🙂 Interesting comments.. I'd forgotten
road/fireroad climb towards the end of the Beast at Coedy Brenin
It's not super hard but if it's been a sloggy / wet day it's just a bit 'oh really. again'. Descent from there back to the centre is fantastic tho.
There's a few climbs I'll do twice to do the final descent again. Marin comes to mind, winch back up because the descent is so much fun. Used to do it when Jetlag was first built as well.
The first climb out of the carpark at Innerleithen is a killer. That gets my vote
Cafall is great! I don't go riding often, and although the climb is stiff and mega anaerobic, it's manageable. As a whole, the trail is brilliant. Varied, atmospheric,fun descents. Still can't seem to carry any speed in powderhouse section though!
In Scotland, as above Heartbreak Hill @ Kirrie gets me everytime, Ive cleared it once, find it harder since they sanitized it as well, too loose and smooth with gravel now :/
No one mentioned Swinley's vert?
Midlanders! remember the old kitbag hill at Cannock?
my god that was a slog. There's nothing too bad at Cannock really through.
The old kitbag was a boring hard old slog the new one is much better.
Always doable though. If the question was 'worst trailcentre climb' it would be up there 😆
Whites Level always feels utterly bastard if I start from Glyncorrwyg, more doable if I start from the other end and warm up properly on the Wall.
There's a little bit on CYB, I think just before Pink Heifer which is a steepish, loose track followed by a horrid little rock step. For some reason I always cock it up or run out of energy just before the hard bit.
It's just before false teeth I think. Always a good indicator of my fitness as like you say there is a good pull before you reach the crux. If on good form then I have enough oomph for the rock step but if struggling then it's a tough one.
Hardest traiL centre climb I've done is the CYB road shortcut from the cafe to the top of Adams family (so not really on the trail) or the start climb at penmachno went on a bit albeit not technical.
Yeah that shortcut is brutal. But cuts out a lot of Meh.
I know what you mean by that step. You've just finished that superb descent to the bridge and then it's that climb. I've probably done it about half the times I tried it. Most of the failures were of the 'bugger this, it's going to be as quick to walk!'
That concrete bit on the twrch.
Hardest traiL centre climb I've done is the CYB road shortcut from the cafe to the top of Adams family
It's only really bad if you've just stopped for a doorstep sandwich, crisps and a tin of pop.
😉
Still can't seem to carry any speed in powderhouse section though!
Took me over 10 goes at that section to get it figured out 8) Same with Riddler too, dunno why as they're not overly complicated but I keep on either getting too carried away and running wide somewhere or being super cautious instead and killing all my momentum 🙄
I can't say any of the Welsh trail centre climbs have registered as being memorably difficult for me.
Lactic Ladder at Golspie for me. So hard it actually makes going uphill fun!
Climb up to deadwater fell at keilder. God it's long. God its dull.
Rostrevor in Northern Ireland is quite a climb at the start
https://www.strava.com/segments/5776064
1st mile at 10%
Blue 3 at Swinley. What a git!
I'm not great at uphill - I'm more about surviving the climbs to do the fun bit of descending.
I normally make it all the way up cafell at Cwmcarn, but never clear the twych climb. I can do the technical aspect of it - I'm just never fresh enough in the legs to be bothered to battle through so I get off and push. Actually easier than riding.
Hated whites at Afan- just torture.
I have one mate who lives for climbing and just doesn't get my hate for it. Another mate won't ride uphill at all - he'll only do uplift days and smashes the downhill.
I have to try and live with both!
I'm not a climber but before moving to the flatlands of East Anglia I used to spend a lot of my weekends at Welsh Trail centres so had to learn to appreciate them. Twych was tough, only ever cleaned the climb and the concrete ramp once when the rooty sections were still there. I need rhythm in a climb and once I fail one bit the rest is usually tough.
I liked Whites climb, only found the section to the first switchback tricky, and even then it was more brute power than technique. The shortcut fireroad up from the end of Energy, past the end of the black and to Windy point is a real hardly moving slog.
I've only done Inners once but remember it being fairly relentless, it was scorching so perhaps that made it seem harder than it is, I then binned it 1 minute in to the first descent and had to mince down to the car.
Drumlanrig whilst not physically tough is very hard to clear in the wet because of the roots.
Swinley red 18 😛
Cwmcarn though - Twrch is worse than Cafall, or it was. Haven't done it in years, not since the forestry work. Though back then was a lot less fit.
Raven climbs at Brechfa - Maybe not tough but it's tedious, annoying and pretty much ruins the trail for me. 70% fairly dull climbing on that trail for far too short descents (and worse one bit is a fireroad descent!), except at the end where it's okay.
I swear my way up from Thornthwaite to whinlatter/ lords seat every time.
The Nant y Arian one sticks in the mind too.
Personally I really enjoy twrch cafeal and whites all a really good challenge and long enough to get a real burn on if you sprint them.
I've only been to Brechfa once and there was a section of raven I had to push so it must have been tough.
For a real challenge qecp red in the wet....
The only on I can recall as a tough is Innerleithen, car park to Minch Moor. Still, it's pretty much all down hill back to the car from there at least
The rocky one at Pitfichie.
Deadwater fell at Kielder. You start in the valley at 205m and winch yourself up fireroad, through a bog, some badly-surfaced singletrack and finally 4km of exposed fireroad to top out at 575m. Its miserably long, wind swept, cold and generally raining. Oh and I'm generally on my own.
Soon as i saw the title I thought Golspie so glad a few said the same. Ktree (not including moab) is easier I would say. Also a wee honoray mention for Comrie Croft. The red climb is pretty tough in places, never Golspie levels but the fact you usually do it 5 or 6 times on a day there..