[Closed] Totally unnecessary confrontation yesterday (bike theft/"Falling Down" content)

I think morally you're still ok, personally. Actually killing him may leave you open to further criticism, though.

Did you put on a Michael Caine voice too?

No, effeminate indignant home counties is more my schtick. Oh wait, Caine now lives in Surrey!

You need....

[IMG] [/IMG]

If you showed him the axe he would have known you meant business.

For the avoidance of doubt, I was merely taking it to the shop to get it sharpened, via Brick Lane.

God knows what would have happened if he'd been less of a cheerful fellow, I'm pants with my fists. But I really liked that bike and it was uninsured so...seen Falling Down yeah?

Racist

(That's the touch paper lit, enjoy the thread)

I think you are well within the "mourning" period over the loss of your bike and all wee in shoes and own with bombers thoughts are acceptable.
Did you show the fence the ice axe? Would have been interesting to have a heart monitor or bladder tensometer on the fellow.

.

You're lucky he didn't shove it up your arse. Mate of mine tried to teach a couple of guys a lesson after they insulted his girlfriend; he took her home then went back with a baseball bat.

They carefully and considerately took the bat off him, broke his nose, beat him around the body then gave him his bat back and explained that he was lucky it was them and not someone who would beat him half to death in an alleyway.

.. not quite sure of the point your trying to make here?
😕

Yep - it was not the right thing to do (from both ethical and practical perspectives) but I post it here as hey it was a funny old exchange which one doesn't see every day. Not trying to brag in any way - the opposite.

Probably would've been safer with a baseball bat, as the ice axe is bladed and therefore I'd hesitate more to use it.

The point is that offering violence to people may result in you getting an ice axe up your bum. I'm sorry, I can't make it any simpler.

Judge Lionel Nutmeg says "If you had killed him, you'd be prosecuted for undue leniency. As death is too good for bike thieves and the sellers of stolen bikes."

If the police had a 'prove it's legit and who you bought it from' approach with these guys it would help a lot, I think.

How did they get the bat off him? I don't think they would've been able to get my axe as they'd have been preoccupied with trying to fish their hand, nose, etc. out of the gutter. My calculation was that I'd be fine unless someone had a gun. Not trying to sound hard, more conveying the extent to which I was under a red mist at the time.

I did enjoy the Pulp Fiction style "select your weapon" process in my flat that morning - "rolling pin?" no "baseball bat?" no "machete?" maybe "airsoft MP-5 with red dot sight?" no, too much SWAT risk "ice axe?" perfect

Not condoning any of this, the whole thing was pathetic and probably illegal

I suspect he bottled it.

Most people would, I think, they're just not used to inflicting harm to others.

That's exactly what he thought; he was a fairly handy chap, known for being a scrapper. He stopped scrapping from that day onwards because he said he realised how close he came to getting properly hurt. Red mist just means you're not thinking..

Oh and ice axe?
You might poke a hole in someone, which just makes them annoyed; I see far more blunt instrument trauma unfortunately.

You're right.

There is though an awesome Youtube video of some LA gang abusing a guy as he drives through in his SUV...the SUV stops 50m down the road and the big man gets out with a baseball bat...and proceeds to knock each gang member down individually (or two at a time in one case) as if they were bowling pins.

I abhor violence.

first rule of fightclub.. never carry a weapon unless you're prepared to use it or some such..?

I remember friends of mine as teenagers getting beaten to an unrecognisable pulp after they had their macho posturing weapons (baseball bats) taken off them by the fellas they were attempting to 'intimidate'

and if you were prepared to use an ice axe over the theft of your bike then you would have surely deserved any prison sentence (or section under the mental health act.. or shooting by police marksman) that your actions might have incurred..

I'll sleep slightly less soundly tonight knowing that there are sillybollocks like you roaming our streets

Tuff guy walt 😆

Threats like that are just childish unless you're actually willing to go through with them.

People man enough to go through with them, don't bother making threats first, they just do it!

surely money means more to him than death threats. offer to give him as much as he wants if he manages to get hold of it. i suppose what you do if he did get it would be up to you...

All true. I'm not defending any of the stuff in the original post - it's just a narrative.

The axe wasn't on display - I just had it in my bag in case I saw my bike being sold, went to retrieve it and the guy pulled a knife, "that's not a knife" kind of thing.

Although in retrospect it was probably not the most appropriate melee weapon as there's no way you could hit someone with an ice axe and not give them a potentially life-threatening injury. Not practical for the casual streetfight. A baseball bat would've been better; or perhaps an ice axe with the plastic blade protector in place.

What a country we live in, people will openly admit to selling stolen goods without fear of arrest or prosecution. 🙄

Ooh....

first rule of fightclub.. never carry a weapon unless you're prepared to use it or some such..?

This, basically.

I can understand your anger, and don't blame you for having violent thoughts.

But you went armed with the intention of possibly using a weapon.

I don't think they would've been able to get my axe as they'd have been preoccupied with trying to fish their hand, nose, etc. out of the gutter.

Personally, if I were you I'd seek professional help, if you are going so far as to pack an ice-axe to deal with someone over a stolen bicycle. A few big chunky mates is one thing; going down on your own with an ice axe in a bag is a whole nother level.

It might be a beloved possession, a lovely bike, your pride and joy, but ultimately it's just a bike. Not worth doing time over.

You need to step back and take stock of things mate, for your sake, for your family and loved ones' sake.

Hurting someone else aint gonna make things right, it'll just make things much worse. And it'll be you who suffers. Trust me.

What is this brick lane market that openly sells stolen bikes? Don't the police do anything about it?

S'in That London's Notorious East End, innit?

TBH hundreds of bikes are sold there every weekend (well known s/h goods market), most of them legit. You do always get scrotes who sell bent gear though, it's always bin like that down there. It's a magnet for people looking for cheap bikes; many are unaware/uncaring that they are stolen. The police round here have precious resources as it is, and bike theft isn't seen as high-priority.

Carrying offensive weapons, GBH and Murder are though....

just on series 3 of dexter....you could be the vigilante of the bike loss world....starting with your own pride and joy....sorry for your loss 🙁

yunki

fellas

Lol. Must be a thread about Internet tough guys! And for whoever said an ice axe will just put holes in people and make them angry, you think if i embeded 6 inches of it into your shoulder it isn't going to stop you? Seriously?!

Lots of markets in London where stolen bikes are sold.

Someone on here a while back managed to recover their bike but had to wrestle it off the "market stall holder" as it was literally being sold!

If only some Old Bill used STW then maybe one of them could explain why these scumbags work so openly without fear... 😈 🙄

Are you going back next Sunday morning ?( without the ice axe )
Would seem silly not too
I take it you are keeping an eye on Guntree / fleabay?

Several years ago an acquaintance of mine had his rather cheap and nasty bike nicked by some travellers (think that is the accepted term now???)

He decided to get his baseball bat and 'sort them out'. No doubt in my mind he was prepared to go through with it. He was (and probably still is) a nut.

He arrived at the site and started threatening folks. They promptly over powered him, took his bat and sent him to the ICU for a couple of months.

Reckon the guy laughed at you as he knew that if you were stupid enough to ever try that, you would end up significantly the worse for wear.

Understand you frustration but it's just a bike.

Any weapon you are not fully prepared to use will end up in the back of your head. Even if the guy you threaten with it isn't a total nutjob, anyone who's threatened with an ice axe is very likley going to feel sufficiently threatened to use full force against you.
I doubt your a fully fledged nut job (as said above, you wouldn't make idle threats if you did) but you do sound like you need some emotional help and counselling.

Excuse the ignorance - what's a Fence??

Someone on here a while back managed to recover their bike but had to wrestle it off the "market stall holder" as it was literally being sold!

My flatmate had a tatty old bike I'd lent her nicked, then spotted it in BL the following Sunday. T'was on a regular stall, and the guy claimed he'd bought it in good faith (fair enough really, the regulars tend to stay away from hot stuff as they're mostly just trying to make an honest living). Her mate Rosita held onto it and woon't let go! I spoke to him on the 'phone and we agreed he'd let her have it for a tenner, as he said he'd paid £20 for it and was hoping to sell it for £30-40. Had I bin there I'duv just tooken it but hey ho. I dare say there's a lot of gear down there of dubious provenance, but it's a second hand market. Yeah the traders should probbly be a bit more on top of things but there you go.

It's the scrotes selling spensive bikes for £50 you have to watch out for. The regular guts mainly sell older bikes and toot really, no bling. Once saw a £700 Marin sold by a smackhead for a tenner. Breaks your heart. 🙁

[b]Fence[/b] = seller of stolen goods. Not the thief, just an inbetweener. Worst they can be done for is handling stolen goods, which carries a relatively light sentence, and even then only if it can be proven they knew the item was stolen. Most of the sellers in BL won't be the ones who originally stole the bikes. Quite often it's scrotey yutes what do the nicking (juvenile sentence if caught), and adults who flog them on. An ever growing business in big cities. That's Capitalism for yer!

, you think if i embeded 6 inches of it into your shoulder it isn't going to stop you? Seriously?!

Hmmm.
That's if you get the chance to swing it, and if you hit in the right place, and if it doesn't bounce off and if and if and if.

There is a reason that law enforcement agencies don't use ice axes; because they are for ice, not aggression.

I see the end results of people thinking violence is like the movies, when the reality is rather different.

crikey - Member

I see the end results of people thinking violence is like the movies, when the reality is rather different.

I remember seeing a chap break a beer bottle over another chap's head in a pub- presumably he'd seen it on TV and in films and knew that it'd [i]definately[/i] knock him out with one blow. So he seemed quite surprised when instead, a furious man with minor cuts on his head punched out quite a few of his teeth.

Elfin, handling carries a higher sentence than theft precisely because it is handling that drives the market for people to steal in the first place.
There's a lot of kidology in market trading, some people would like to think they are buying something that is stolen and therefore a bargain (a steal if you will) and the trader will happily sell them a POS BSO with the appropriate nod and wink that they've bagged a bargain.

All VERY wrong on every level, but begs the question...If you spotted the "bike of your dreams" for a tenner at BL/random market...Would you be a buyer or would morals/guilt get the better of you?

Elfin, handling carries a higher sentence than theft

Yeah, you're right there. I'd always assumed it was a 'lesser' crime, with lesser sentences.

I do know, from talking to coppers round that area, that it's very difficult to prove bikes are stolen, there and then, and when they do arrest folk on suspicion, quite often they have to let them go again due to lack of evidence. A national database of stolen bikes would be helpful, but there is no such thing AFAIK.

Thing is, there's so many of them. And there's also loads of legit bikes being sold down there too. It's very difficult for the police to suss out what's hot and what's not. Plus, most customers, as you point out, don't know the true value of stuffs anyway.

The real market is in parts. untraceable, and over time, more profitable than whole bikes. Thieves have learned that stripping bikes down is a lot easier, as you can fence stuff through bike websites and Ebay etc.

Good job it did not kick off if the old bill turned up and found you with an ice pick with intent to use you would be getting 2 years as the new soap boy in the wandsworth And still not get your bike back.
not big not clever or hard. Its only a bike not worth messing the rest of your life up over it.
Hope it turns up with out you getting hurt or locked up.

All VERY wrong on every level, but begs the question...If you spotted the "bike of your dreams" for a tenner at BL/random market...Would you be a buyer or would morals/guilt get the better of you?

As I've already got a few bikes, the answer would be no. Although, if you bought the bike then handed it in to the police, if it weren't claimed, it would end up being your legal possession.

How many folk would do this though? And you'd still know it was hot....

Another one: Is it better that a stolen bike ends up with somone who will appreciate/look after it, or ragged around then dumped in the canal?

If any of my bikes were nicked, I'd like to think they ended up with someone who appreciated them. In fact, actually spotted one of my bikes once, outside a shop. Waited until the 'owner' came out; young bloke, studenty type. Made some small talk about 'nice bike mate' etc, then planned to follow him home, with the intention of just coming round with a few mates later to retrieve it (Police really aren't very helpful in these situations from experience).

Bloody lost sight of him after trying to follow him at a distance. 😡

Ah well. Bloke looked like he was enjoying it and benefitting from it. I'm pretty damn sure he weren't the thief, and probbly did buy it in good faith. Sod it, it's only a bike...

You want to go easy going tooled up to mess with 'proper' criminals, unless you are also a proper hard nut. Whilst criminals may be just 'fencing' some stolen goods and may not want to use violence (getting sent down is bad for business), they probably have their fingers in several ventures and the use of violence is probably higher up their options menu than other folk. I only ever met a couple of ordinary joe's when I worked in forensic mental health, where they had a one off incident/ situation that had got out of control resulting in them residing at HMP. The ones I saw struggled to come to terms with the changes in their lives, and the down right brutal life that prison can be at times. Much as I applaud anyone taking proactive steps to recover a nicked bike, going with an offensive weapon is plain dumb, it's just a bike ffs.

If you are going to kill someone then I'd suggest...........

You don't give them any warning

You don't advertise the fact on a National website

But in an abstract way you have possibly done some good. If the geezer is doing what you say he is doing and the police are not doing anything about it then at least you have registered a measure of public disapproval. Perhaps 100 of us should go down there and make his life impossible..... probably need to be tooled up though so it'd be bad news all round.

WHAT A SODDING CORRUPT AGE WE ARE LIVING IN? WHY IS THAT MAN ALLOWED TO OPENLY DO THIS? AND IF HE WAS CAUGHT HOW MANY HOURS WOULD HE GET IN PRISON?
My bet would be none!

I went to Brick Lane when I had my bike nicked from near Spitalfields.
I'm not sure what I would have done had I seen it - I probably would have just bought it off them, then reported it to the police.
.
when I was a kid I chased someone who had nicked my bike, he turned out to be a known wrongun and would have probably beat the crap out of me had I caught up with him.
.
Dentistry is very expensive these days - it'll cost more to have your teeth fixed than it would buy a new bike.

fourbanger - Member
yunki

fellas

Lol. Must be a thread about Internet tough guys!

eh...?

I don't get it

WHAT A SODDING CORRUPT AGE WE ARE LIVING IN?

To be fair, it's probably no more corrupt that at any other point in history, I can't understand why people seem to think things were better at some unidentified time prior to now.

billyboy - Member

WHAT A SODDING CORRUPT AGE WE ARE LIVING IN? WHY IS THAT MAN ALLOWED TO OPENLY DO THIS? AND IF HE WAS CAUGHT HOW MANY HOURS WOULD HE GET IN PRISON?

I wonder what might happen if members of the public reported their bikes stolen, and recorded the frame numbers, and contacted the ol' Bill to report stolen bikes?

smell_it - Member

WHAT A SODDING CORRUPT AGE WE ARE LIVING IN?

To be fair, it's probably no more corrupt that at any other point in history, I can't understand why people seem to think things were better at some unidentified time prior to now.

I think it is probably much safer than at any time - maybe the 50s / 60s were a bit better but maybe not.

maybe the 50s / 60s were a bit better but maybe not

Not around the Brick Lane area they weren't....

Hey dude..."what make of bike was it?"

billyboy - Member

WHAT A SODDING CORRUPT AGE WE ARE LIVING IN? WHY IS THAT MAN ALLOWED TO OPENLY DO THIS? AND IF HE WAS CAUGHT HOW MANY HOURS WOULD HE GET IN PRISON?

I wonder what might happen if members of the public reported their bikes stolen, and recorded the frame numbers, and contacted the ol' Bill to report stolen bikes?

I had 2 bikes stolen from my alarmed garage in broad daylight. After a few weeks I managed to track one bike down, get it back and provide all the details to the police. (I'd got records of frame number etc)
They eventually arrested the guy who had it and after a lengthy process, he was taken to Magistrates court to face a charge of Handling Stolen Goods. However, thanks to our wonderful Criminal Justice system, his solicitor cited his right to trial by jury, (Crown Court instead of magistrates). Within a few weeks I got a standard letter from the CPS stating that it wasn't cost effective to prosecute with the amount of evidence, and that was the end of the matter! (Apart from at my end where the insurance company would no longer insure the full value of my bikes and my premium pretty much doubled.....Not so cost-effective for me).

The person who stole the bike was given a late-night curfew and some type supervision order which enables the police to drop in on him at any time. The only down-sides to this are the facts that,
1) He broke in during the day, so late-night curfew won't prevent this; and
2) He was already subject to these EXACT conditions when he committed the crime!

Criminal Justice System? DOH! 😯

EDIT - Not condoning the actions of the OP but it's bloody frustrating knowing that if you do take the "correct" action, you still end up getting shafted while the scrotes get away with it.

a burning sensation when peeing is barely enough to make a bike thief feel the pain they cause.

**** um.

There are some very long and verbose responses to the OP. Let me fix this. jhw has an airsoft MP5 with a laser sight - jhw is a complete dick. Going armed with an ice axe to find a stolen bike. You jhw should be bloody ashamed.

isn't it amazing that in any town up and down the country most people know the dodgy market stalls, the pubs where stolen gear is sold etc but it seems beyond the police to do anything about it

I can't believe you thought an ice axe would be a good weapon!! Utter madness. From a technical perspective, any tool that is designed to make a small entry and to stick in that hole until you pull in a very specific direction is for that reason completely useless. Did that not cross your mind?

I must point out that I own several axes, and know this from using them for their intended purpose, not from being a wannabe psycho.

You'll not look good trying to get the pick out of the bone you've stuck it in. No matter how nice your bike is you immediately become the dick at that point.

Don't pack a pick, a dictaphone would have been more useful. You can always use your fists if needed (but really?!). Pop down there with some evidence that it's your bike, then be confrontational.

You've not done yourself any favours. Oh, and what axe is it?

Jesus.

I think a lot of tongue-in-cheekness has been missed here.

I was going to a known criminal hotspot with a view to "negotiating" the return of my bike, if I saw it. I've read stories of people being beaten up and stabbed doing exactly this, at exactly the same market. The way I saw it, there was no way the situation wasn't going to lead to fisticuffs if I did see my bike for sale.

The ice axe was for one situation and one situation only, namely, in case someone pulled a knife on me when I confronted them for my bike. Of course I wouldn't have brandished it in any other situation. But knife crime in London is a serious problem right now, and given the purpose of the trip was basically to go and pick a dispute with proper criminals, should I see my bike, I don't think it was completely unreasonable to take something just in case someone literally pulled a weapon on me. To brandish as I ran madly away.

Knowing the area's reputation and the type of people I would be dealing with, I'd have said it would be madness to do otherwise.

Frankly I'm surprised to have to be spelling this out as it's clear much of my earlier posts are completely tongue in cheek, but stuff does get lost in translation on the internet.

But knife crime in London is a serious problem right now

No more so than it has bin at any other time really; it's just sensationalised by the media far more.

But anyway, going armed ready for violence is pre-meditated; seriously injure someone and you could be looking at attempted murder. Kill them, and kiss goodbye to riding any sort of bike for a very long time indeed.

Seriously mate; you need to address a few things about yourself. Do you have any genuine understanding of proper violence? You need to forget about playing the big tough guy, seriously. The 'several big mates' approach is far better.

stuff does get lost in translation on the internet

Eh? You took a flipping [i]ice axe[/i] to potentially confront someone! What else is there to 'translate'?

I agree that it's a questionable judgment - but fundamentally I think it's just a moral grey area (I only mean morally; of course the legal position is clear). The purpose of the ice axe was in case the thief pulled a knife on me and I thought I was going to get stabbed - something I thought there was a good chance might happen.

Spelling my reasoning out: I was within my rights to go to the market and challenge the sale, if I saw it, and I foresaw a significant risk that this could lead to someone pulling a blade on me, and I judged that having something with me in case this happened could reduce the chance of my then getting stabbed.

While a borderline judgment (from an ethical point of view), I don't think this is completely unreasonable. Though - I wouldn't do it in retrospect, as it's illegal.

It would be different if, for example, I'd gone down there with the intention of swinging the axe at the head of whoever I saw selling my bike, pre-emptively (like the guy mentioned on this thread with the baseball bat in his rectum). But I didn't.

I just lost my cool. It's worth noting that only 5 hours elapsed between me discovering the theft and me arriving at the market. I was probably still a bit pissed. Didn't help the thought process.

Lots of judgments here. I think basically...don't judge until you've been in the exact same situation...as in *exactly* the same situation. I can't afford a replacement. Much of my OP was tongue in cheek and the rest was expressed apologetically in any case - obviously I'm not proud of it!

I just really, really value my bikes....

But knife crime in London is a serious problem right now, and given the purpose of the trip was basically to go and pick a dispute with proper criminals, should I see my bike, I don't think it was completely unreasonable to take something just in case someone literally pulled a weapon on me.

😕

In fact, actually spotted one of my bikes once, outside a shop. Waited until the 'owner' came out; young bloke, studenty type. Made some small talk about 'nice bike mate' etc, then planned to follow him home, with the intention of just coming round with a few mates later to retrieve it

I saw Mrs Removed's stolen Trek in the park nearby whilst walking the dog. It was unmistakable - Blackburn rack still attached, same big scratch down the down-tube where it fell off a small cliff....

The guy riding it was a beardy fellow with a happy smile and a tweed jacket (yes, really, and it wasn't made by Rapha). I could have run up, bounced his speccy face off the path and taken it back, but it was worth perhaps £200 and we'd already bought a replacement. There's absolutely no way he'd nicked it, so I let it lie.

I do understand that it's different when the bike's worth a lot more and you've worked hard and made sacrifices to get it - had two stolen myself. I reckon the OP had absolutely no intention of using the ice axe - sometimes we need a confidence boost to put ourselves in the way of danger. Also, (bike) love does funny things to us 🙂

The worst crime there, User-Removed, is that you only bought your darling wife a cheap bike. 🙁

Broken Britain right there folks.

😆 Proper laugh at that! It was worth a lot more new... Worse; the replacement was a Carrera Kraken which is truly horrible on so many levels and in so many ways 🙁

The only bike she's had which she'd actually ride voluntarily was a (different) skip rescue steel framed Trek. It was lovely and we went round Cornwall, Southern Ireland and the West coast of Scotland with it before it properly fell apart (and therein lies a story, replete with Irish rain and a tour bus full of folk from Prague). Her heart wasn't broken, but the new Trek just didn't cut it.

Dog that barks doesn't bite...

Rude to talk with yer mouth full.

Give the OP a break, he said from the start he had been silly and had no real intention of using said axe.I'm pretty sure we all have visions of only fools and horses, where Rodney is chasing the thief.

He knows he was silly, he said he was silly, pretty sure he doesn't need everyone on STW telling him what he already knows, albeit in far more unpleasent ways.

TBH hundreds of bikes are sold there every weekend (well known s/h goods market), most of them legit. You do always get scrotes who sell bent gear though, it's always bin like that down there. It's a magnet for people looking for cheap bikes; many are unaware/uncaring that they are stolen. The police round here have precious resources as it is, and bike theft isn't seen as high-priority.

carrying offensive weapons, GBH and Murder are though....

Wouldn't be an issue if people didn't steal bikes

A lot of folk on here are holier than thou. That is all.

I remember seeing a chap break a beer bottle over another chap's head in a pub- presumably he'd seen it on TV and in films and knew that it'd definately knock him out with one blow. So he seemed quite surprised when instead, a furious man with minor cuts on his head punched out quite a few of his teeth.

I worked as a doorman for a fair few years, all over the UK. I was working in Leeds at the Old Monk (now Wagamamas, I think) and was hit by a fella with a bottle. It did not break. It hurt like I'd been hit with a club. It left a dent in my head. We then had a discussion and he after acknowledging the error of his ways he waited out the back for the police to arrive.

I still have the dent.

jhw - I feel it would probably be best if you don't carry a weapon around with you, and let people qualified (either in violence or the legal system) do the job instead. You don't come across as the 'type' to be honest.

I can't believe you thought an ice axe would be a good weapon!! Utter madness. From a technical perspective, any tool that is designed to make a small entry and to stick in that hole until you pull in a very specific direction is for that reason completely useless. Did that not cross your mind?

You might want to tell that to Leon Trotsky.

You might want to tell that to Leon Trotsky.

Whatever happened to him?

You might want to tell that to Leon Trotsky.

Wrong kind of ice pick I think?

He got an icepick that made his ears burn

A national database of stolen bikes would be helpful

www.immobilise.com

And if anyone reading this doesn't have a note of their bike's serial number, go and take it down [u]now[/u].

Wouldn't be an issue if people didn't steal bikes

Get a grip. They're just bikes.

We live in a materialistic society. Everywhere we go, were are constantly reminded to CONSUME CONSUME CONSUME. People want things. People are selfish and greedy.

The bike thief doesn't see that they are depriving you of a loved one, they just see it as another fifty quid or whatever. They have no understanding or appreciation for what your bike means to you. Invariably they are driven by a need to fund a drugs habit etc etc etc. So it's nothing 'personal', it's not an attack on you as an individual.

Understanding why crime happens is very useful in being able to try to prevent becoming a victim of crime. no use bleating on about 'ooh it's so unfair those nasty bike thieves are evil', just accept reality, and take steps to ensure your prized possessions are kept safe. This isn't condoning crime, this is just being pragmatic. Realistic.

We then had a discussion and he after acknowledging the error of his ways he waited out the back for the police to arrive.

😆

See? No need for unnecessary violence at all...

2pm Euston is far too vague, Bully. I need specifics. Sort yerself out ffs. 🙄

Bunch of amateurs!!
Sawn off under the trenchcoat was the correct response.

You're far too soft darn sarf!

Typed in Bradford, gun crime capital of the UK!! 😆

I remember seeing a chap break a beer bottle over another chap's head in a pub- presumably he'd seen it on TV and in films and knew that it'd definately knock him out with one blow. So he seemed quite surprised when instead, a furious man with minor cuts on his head punched out quite a few of his teeth.

LOL!

That's all I've got to add.