[Closed] Tora or Pike?

Crikey, the Pikes, no question.

Pike

Btw, the u-turn Toras are not far off a pound heavier than the Pikes

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thebunk needs data points! Pike u-turn 454s are about £400 - Toras are £220ish. I'll spend the extra if you tell me to, but help me justify this to my wife, friends and family.

Pedalhead - CRC say 0.1lb less for the Toras...

Crocodilian, you make a compelling point...

Pikes all the way. Do you have a 20mm front hub (or a hub that can take an adapter to change)

Also Toras have silver stantions = Gay

pikes are wonderfully plush and track rough terrain incredibly well. Any toras i've ridden (havent ridden any 09 / 10 ones mind you) simply don't compare in performance.

You'll need a new wheel with the Pike, but don't let that stop you getting the better fork.

Worth asking you what bike and what are you riding or not?

Yep, got hope hubs. Is it the maxle - are thy the same insides then?

Is that it? Is it worth it?

Yes, that's kind of it... Though the Pike's do have an adjustable compression floodgate too, if that bothers you (the Tora's standard setting will be pretty ok though).

Recon 351's have same damping, and about 0.5lb lighter too... And still cheaper.

But the 20mm axle on the Pikes makes a massive difference to stiffness. Is it worth it? Only you will know... If I'm prepared to have a 5lb fork, I want it stiff... Otherwise instead of the Tora's I'd run revelations and save more than 1lb.

Chalk and cheese. They both weigh around 2.4kg, but you can't compare their performance. Yes the coil Toras are tough, reliable, work well and are stiff enough, but I'm realising that they aren't active enough for the speeds/terrain I'm hitting. What about Revs/Recons as they are both lighter and cheaper?

There's a fair few other forks between the pike and tora, what about Rev's, Recon's, Reba's, etc...

What are you gonna use your new forks for? Gnarr to the max Hucking or tarting about on tow paths? (or something a bit more in between perhaps)...

Either way there's a lot more forks to consider just from RS...

Chalk and cheese. They both weigh around 2.4kg, but you can't compare their performance. Yes the coil Toras are tough, reliable, work well and are stiff enough, but I'm realising that they aren't active enough for the speeds/terrain I'm hitting. What about Revs/Recons as they are both lighter and cheaper?

LOL

Pretty much the same internals mate! The adjustable floodgate on the Pikes does have some effect, but very little that a good service/setup on Tora's wouldn't achieve. Anybody who says the performance difference is miles apart really is telling porkies! The 20mm axle on Pikes is a definite benefit, and they are stiffer as a result. But consider that Tora 318's (not 302's, they have a much simpler damping system) run basically the same damper as a Pike, and explain to me how they can work vastly differently?

Recon 351s are 140mm travel, my frame only does 120mm (though next frame will take 140, hence the need for u-turn).

cookeaa, riding mostly red/black xc routes on welsh trail centres, until I learn how to read a map. Just want a cheap, light, stiff, travel adjustable fork, with RS reliability...is that too much to ask?!

Buzzlightyear, you share your namesakes reputation for hyperbole and style over mboys substance, though I guess for you the maxle makes a lot of difference?

I've got the Tora 302s. TFT serviced and tuned them.

They [i]are[/i] different from Pikes. You're not paying £200 extra just for bolt-though. Or Pikes are extremely poor value for money.

No hyperbole what so ever. 🙂

I've got the Tora 302s.

The OP asked about the difference between Tora 318's and Pikes, kinda makes everything you've said irrelevant no?

They are different from Pikes. You're not paying £200 extra just for bolt-though. Or Pikes are extremely poor value for money.

Yes, not only have your forks got steel stanchions instead of ally and no bolt through axle, yours have also got the vastly inferior damping system. Which of course makes their performance quite a lot lower!

Tora 318's though are really a pretty good value fork, or certainly they used to be. OK, they're weighty, but they do bring Pike/Revelation performance to those on a budget, albeit with a weight penalty and no bolt through axle.

Maybe. Is it just about the motion control damping circuit though?

If it is then maybe I could get motion control retro fitted in my 302s. Cheaper than buying a, not good VFM, Pike when I'm not really interested in bolt-though.

pikes!!!! please

Yup you can retrofit a Motion Control damper into your Tora's Busslightyear. But I suggest it would be pretty expensive, and you'd be much better off selling the fork, and picking up a good condition used set of QR Rockshox Revelations off ebay (there's been loads on there recently) as not only will they save you over 1lb in weight and bring you a better functioning fork, your wallet will be better off too cos iirc, a Motion Control Damper setup is VERY expensive on its own! Used Tora's seem to fetch £70-80 or so, used Revelations anywhere from £140 upwards dependant on condition.

Correct answer is Tora 318s if you're on a budget, Pikes if you want something extremely tough, Revelations for everyone else.

Pikes or 140/20mm Recons?

OK, thanks all. So Pikes are Toras with maxle, and they both weigh a ton. I'm not going to [s]do[/s] land 5 foot drop offs, I don't want either of them.

Recons with Maxle and u-turn then.

Oh, wait - other than the SRAM site, Recons with Maxle and u-turn don't exist.

forkin ell!

No, they aren't. Pikes are noticeably stronger and more suited to red/black Welsh trail centres. The damping is also far superior (I've ridden both on the same bike, Toras are too much of an XC fork and won't have the same great small-bump sensitivity without getting PUSHed.

I myself run a revelation because it was going cheap. A well-set up revelation can feel almost as nice as a pike (though coil forks will always have nicer small-bump sensitivity) and is pretty strong, though not quite as tough as there's no 20mm Maxle. Buying second hand they're pretty much the same price second hand so it boils down to less weight vs slightly nicer damping and extra strength.

I ride red/black Welsh trail centres frequently, and a fair bit of silly natural stuff as well (Dyfi forest and so on) with my mates who all run pikes. I wouldn't bother with anything other than Pikes/Revs personally.

Reba with maxle then

Thanks CaptainBudget - so you're saying mboy is wrong then? Tora (318s only) have motion control damping, as do Pike's and Revelations (unless you get Blackbox MC, which is better).

I knew Revelations with Maxle and u-turn were my ideal fork, but they're £150 more than Pikes, which in turn are £150 more than the Toras, hence the thread.

Not sure about 2nd hand forks - how do I know if I'm getting a decent set? What do I look for?

Thanks all, keep the advice coming!

Cheers captainbudget for confusing the issue! Saying "I ride welsh trail centres so I know what I'm talking about" is all well and good, but have you actually taken the forks apart for yourself before?

I'll give a quick recap of the differences between a Pike 454 and a Tora 318

-Pike has 20mm axle, tora doesn't
-Pike has ally stanchions, tora has cromoly
-Pike has externally adjustable compression floodgate, tora doesn't
-Pike has stiffer/stronger crown
-BOTH have motion control damping system!

The Tora's won't be as stiff as a Pike indeed, but are in my experience stiffer than a Fox 32. The damping on a Tora 318 isn't as immediately as adjustable as that on a Pike (no external compression), but can be tuned internally if you know what you're doing.

Tora 318s are a good budget fork. Pikes are better, no question, but whether or not it's worth it to the OP is another question.

Regarding buying 2nd hand, good condition is important obviously, but both forks really are about as easy as they come o service, so fear not if they need an oil change or new seals. As long as stanchions are good, lowers not knackered and damper not blown up, all is easily fixable!

Steel stanchions are harder wearing and smoother (or so I was told) than anodised aluminium. But they are heavier.

It does make me chuckle when the Tora is being slated for having cack damping, when the 318 has fundamentally the same damping as a pike.

I'm with mboy in this debate - he looks too well informed 🙂

Well i'd agree except tora 318s feel nowhere near as nice as pikes, more friction from the steel stanchions maybe?

I moved from Tora 318 to Rev 426 (Dual Air) last year. The difference wasn't night and day by any means, even with the extra travel (my 318's were 100mm -> 130mm). Biggest difference was in the small bump stuff and a substantial weight saving. (I wouldn't go back though)

However, I have also tried lower versions of the Toras and can say there is a big difference between them and the 318!

I got my Rev's second hand for ~£170 quid. There isn't much to go wrong, check for stantion wear and cracks, everything else can be serviced.

Retro83

I have a feeling, though I am not sure, it might be down to the spring rates. For instance, on a standard spring, at 12 stone I can easily bottom out a Pike, yet I cannot easily bottom out a Tora/Recon also with the standard spring fitted, suggesting to me they come with stiffer springs fitted as standard than the Pike.

@mboy

yes, I have taken them apart (and I mean more than just whipping the lowers off, a full internal and MOCO service) as I have done with every fork I've owned (I'd rather service them myself than send them to TF because it's cheaper and not that much of a faff).

I wasn't implying Toras had no MOCO (don't know where that came from?), merely that it's nowhere near as good as that of a Pike/Revelation. Yes, you can tweak Toras internally but not everyone knows what they're doing and you can make them feel even worse if you get it wrong. I also tend to leave the external compression on my revs as soft as possible, but TBH the external doesn't do that much for you. The internals are also much better designed so they feel much smoother (I don't just mean the MOCO cart)

I shall say it again, the Toras work but the pike feels so much better on the trails when set up properly as it's tracking is far better and it produces a noticeably smoother ride. Is it worth the extra cash? having ridden both on the same bike I'd say yes, especially if you're thinking about exploring more natural stuff in Wales where the Tora will be completely outclassed.

i'm interested in this debate as i quite like my toras. they are no way as supple as my marzocchi z1 rcv but the damping is more controlled.318`s as well.

standard spring feels pretty soft for me - 12.5stone.

Forget my comments above, I had a 318 Solo Air which it doesn't look like they make anymore.

CaptainBudget, I agree, IMO the extra stiffness of a Pike is/would be well worth it for me. But then it isn't always for many! Plenty of people run a fox 32 out of choice for instance, when even compared to a tora/recon/revelation the fox is noticably not as stiff. And compared to a Pike, the Tora/Recon/Revelation is noticably less stiff again.

That's kind've what I was trying to say, it's not always worth the extra cash, depending on what you want the fork for.

Internally though, the only difference is the extra adjustable compression damping on the Pike, which if you know what you're doing (not me I hasten to add, I'm happy doing a basic service but messing around with shim stacks is kinda beyond my acheivements so far) you can make the cheaper motion control damping feel just as you like in terms of it's compression feel.