[Closed] Topping up a cycle scheme voucher

it is against the rules plain and simple. will anyone other than you and the shop ever know? doubt it.

Remember it isn't your bike. The rules are strict and if you break them it could cause grief for you, your employer and the shop. Personally I wouldn't.

If the shop will do it and you are happy then do it.

Does your shop do it Al?

I assume that your voucher has been authorized and issued by your employer based on a quote of £1000 from your chosen shop.
Don't forget this is a legally binding agreement you are entering into and you will not own the bike until you finish the hire period and then pay a fair market value price, if the voucher is for £1000 you will have to pay 25%. The way you are going about this seems a bit cack-handed, not to mention fraudulent.

The only way to do what you want to do, in my opinion, is to be totally open with your employer, tell them what you want to do.

I'm just in the process of rolling the cyclescheme out at my place of employment and from what I have learnt it seems to be a very flexible scheme as long as you stick to the rules.

Pogo, the reason for the post was to ask the question.... No quotes passed onto the scheme people and provisional approval given. No crime committed
I have been advised by one shop to buy a £999 bike and then stick £300 worth of wheels on it which seems a bit of a nonsense. I was wondering if the bike scheme police would throw me into the clink. Looks like I'll have to go mail order or........(whispers)...... Halfrauds

Anyone know if it always has to be a full bike? Could you just do a frame?

Has to be a bike. ..... Did toy with the idea of a £50 balance bike and £949.99 on some nice new forks for my proper bike.

Either bike or safety equipment - mrs did one recently and just bought clothes a pump and a lock - as id bought her a bike last year that didnt need changed

Btw Halfords don't accept cyclescheme vouchers. They do cycle-to-work though.

Our scheme (a major corporate) started with parts this year I believe... Via Halfords too. Woulda been great if it coincided with the Hope wheel deal say!

Has there ever been a case where topping up has been an issue? Or is this like riding on footpaths?

I bought a frame only, a Prince Albert 17", that's what I put on the form, who was to know it wasn't a complete bike.

The issue could have been that if the company had wanted the bikes back (they do own them) then I suppose I'd have lost my components, however I'd have just paid the remainder.

As for topping up, it is against the rules, if you do do it then I would imagine you'd lose your top up if all went wrong...

I've done it twice, I look on it as a gamble as the bike belongs to my employer until I pay the final payment (after 3 years in my case).

[quote=Nick ]Has there ever been a case where topping up has been an issue? Or is this like riding on footpaths?
The OP specifically asked if it could be done [i]without being fraudulent[/i]. I guess some folk just like to know they are on the right side of the law.

The bike i bought was over the limit. I spoke to the shop and they had no problems with me making up the the difference. But i'm a bad boy and have never cycled to work on it 😀

I know a fella who got a pair of expensive DH wheels on his C2W. I recall he put Deemax 26" on the form.

I asked my employer and they said it would be fine. I will probably do it next year.

I got a £1000 voucher and put an extra 300 quid. no problem with the bike shop or my employer. How can it be fraud? The worst case scenario is that I have to hand back a £1300 bike rather than a £1000 bike, which of course will never happen. The whole C2W rules are set up to circumvent the benefit in kind rules - without the rules set up as they are the bike would be taxed as a benefit and would therefore be a pointless scheme.

How can it be fraud? The worst case scenario is that I have to hand back a £1300 bike rather than a £1000 bike, which of course will never happen. The whole C2W rules are set up to circumvent the benefit in kind rules - without the rules set up as they are the bike would be taxed as a benefit and would therefore be a pointless scheme.

Well I think fraud is probably the wrong word. Its certainly tax avoidance, and as it is outside the intent of the scheme most people would see it as tax evasion. That presumably carries a criminal penalty although its unlikely that it would be pursued as such, unless e.g. your employer specifically told you not to and you intentionally ignored it / faked and invoice etc. A more likely consequence is:

- you loose the taxable benefit.
- your employer looses the NI benefit.
- your employer gets a PAYE tax investigation (that will make your popular!)
- potentially everyone on your company's b2w scheme loses the benefit (which means either pissing off all your colleagues or your employer who ends up paying the tax bill that they didn't!) - this is especially so if "hand back a £1000 bike [i]will never happen[/i] - is perceived as being predetermined".
- your employer decides its all too much hassle to keep within the rules and closes their b2w scheme - then those people who would actually have used it for its intended purpose miss out.

It's not even tax avoidance, since you're paying tax on the 'top up' £300 anyway. But it's outside of the letter of the agreement. If the bike shop agree to it, then no one will ever find out and you're golden. But if you like being within the letter of the law, then you'll probably have to speak to your employer about extending the limit. My employer allows up to £2000 so it's clearly ok legally. But whether your employer can be arsed with the extra work so you can have a shinier bike...?

As a retailer who has been working with Cyclescheme since the scheme's inception, we are told at least once a year by email that top-ups are not allowed.

We toe'd this line for about three years (and lost a lot of sales as folk went elsewhere to shops that did allow top-ups)

We now relent, and will allow top-ups but explain all of the implications as detailed above.

We now process about five times as many vouchers, and have many more happy customers riding bikes!

Any ramifications? not yet!

it is against the rules plain and simple.

I'm not 100% sure it is anymore. I'll check if I remember.

my employer are very clued up, very risk averse, very large and FCA regulated and will allow top ups. make of that what you will.

What is the maximum value bicycle and safety equipment package employees can select through the scheme?

The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) has issued a group consumer credit licence to cover Employers implementing Cycle to Work Schemes that are limited at £1000 inc. VAT per Certificate. To view and download a copy of the licence please click here.

Employers who have their own Consumer Credit Licence Category B (consumer hire) can allow employees to request Certificates of a higher value. Alternatively, employers wishing to increase the Cycle to Work Certificate value can apply for their own individual Consumer Credit Licence from the Office of Fair Trading. For further details please contact our Helpdesk on info@cyclescheme.co.uk.

yeah, I remember reading that - not very clear is it?

Ooops!

I've broken the rules twice then, 1st time I bought a legit £1k bike, but before the contract ended I had changed that many bits, it ended up a [b]completely[/b] different bike, inc. frame & forks!

2nd time, I got a frame, wheels & a few other bits (knew the owner, since ceased trading)

Surely its two separate transactions. £1000 bike £300 wheelset, keep the old wheels. If for whatever reason you end up not keeping the bike pop the stock wheels back on. Where's the fraud?

Topped up mine with no issues at all. Tax is being paid on the top up. Employers with a Consumer Credit License Agreement can offer as much as they want. Ours is £3000 every three years.

Where's the fraud?

On the paperwork. The cycle shop has to write down the make and model of the bike. Cyclescheme,Cycle2work etc check the models RRP's.

OP's 2nd post:

I have been advised by one shop to buy a £999 bike and then stick £300 worth of wheels on it which seems a bit of a nonsense. I was wondering if the bike scheme police would throw me into the clink. Looks like I'll have to go mail order or........(whispers)...... Halfrauds

C2W voucher for £999 bike, £300 separate purchase of wheels privately by OP... He's not actully buying a £1300 bike, just a £1k one and some parts, Why does it all have to be on one bill?

Just to add, I believe the scheme now allows 'accessory' only c2w vouchers. Make sense really as it's rare people need another brand new bike every season, but things like waterproof jackets, helmet lights need replacing more regularly. As usual the terms are suitable vague.

I haven't used the c2w scheme since 2009, it is now a glorified interest free option for me. I can often get bikes cheaper in the sales, like I did this year

Would the top up be tax avoidance though?
Surely any additional cost would already have been taxed at the full rate and the tax benefit is still only on the £1000.
Of course, as has been mentioned there's still the risk of loosing the extra money put in if it went wrong.

My wife got £100 discount on her £1100 bike. Her delight was short lived when they charged her £100 to set the fork sag for her. Gits.

On the paperwork. The cycle shop has to write down the make and model of the bike. Cyclescheme,Cycle2work etc check the models RRP's.

Shops can sell at any price they want - in theory.

On the scheme where I work (not sure which one, i haven't used it), you are allowed to top up the voucher to buy a more expensive bike, however they make clear that you are still only leasing all of it, even though you have shelled out your own cash for a good chuck of it. At the end of the lease period, there is no guarantee that you will get to keep the bike, so the extra money you've paid up front would be written off.
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My wife got £100 discount on her £1100 bike. Her delight was short lived when they charged her £100 to set the fork sag for her. Gits.

Erm, yes, they're gits but come on! Who would allow a shop to get away with that? Care to let us know which shop it was? So we can go round, ask them how much and then laugh loudly in their faces before walking out!