Top end full sus..

I went through this thinking process a couple of years ago. I didn't want a Santa Cruz because, well, is a Santa Cruz innit.

Looked at tens of bikes.

Ended up with a Santa Cruz 😄

That said, it's been absolutely brilliant. Frame developed a minor fault earlier this year... New frame on way 👍

Leaning towards the 150 then?

Ibis?

Last?

Transition?

We Are One?

Revel?

Zerode?

Knolly?

Digit? (Not carbon)

Carbon Wasp?

Hope HB916?

Maybe test ride a few bikes first before you spunk a load of cash on what you think is going to impress stranger.

What do you intend to do with it?
What's your local riding like?
Do you intend on taking to other places that aren't local?
What are they like?
What percentage of your riding will that involve?

spunk a load of cash on what you think is going to impress stranger.

Or just perhaps, some people enjoy owning nice things for their own benefit and don't give two shits what others might think.

If the Atherton interests you then I'd go for that, it feels like a proper special bike which a lot of other high end carbon bikes don't any longer IMO. Everyone seems to have a Santa Cruz these days

Or just perhaps, some people enjoy owning nice things for their own benefit and don’t give two shits what others might think.

For sure but why would you just ask such a vague question without any specific information if you want to actually get something that'll suit what you want the bike to do?

Money no object/ brilliant great position to be in. But unless you buy something suitable for [b] your[/b] requirements spunking cash.🤷‍♂️

More info might also lead to a lot more useful info from folks with similar bikes that ride similar terrain.
But hey the name on the headtube might also be more helpful than any of that.

Agree with Stu.

I quite like some of the Evil bikes and also Forbidden.

But in reality once you hit a certain price point/spec level they become much of a muchness and most bikes are very very good these days!

Deviate Highlander or Claymore?

I like the look of the Atherton 150 - but I do wonder looking at it what the dropper insertion is like. At 5’9 on a medium Sentinel I can run a 210mm dropper at full height - although I’m not sure transition fall into that rare / boutique bike category and they’re not quite of the quality that Santa Cruz are either.

I quite like the look of the Forbidden and Deviate frames - there’s a Forbidden dreadnought on the follow link in blue and pink that I think looks fantastic. Only ever seen one out on the trail so I’d class it as quite rare.

https://www.forbiddenbike.com/products/dreadnought-frame

I'm actually in a very similar situation to MartynS with a big birthday soon and feeling like I deserve something nice. Our riding is very similar.

Part of the pleasure comes from the planning and I'd do the same as about. Keep the question vague and get lots of answers, then narrow it down.

Let's go through the knock out rounds and not jump straight to the semi finals.

And there was me thing you'd been around long enough to know that asking strangers about " what bike should i buy" is totally pointless without context.

Arbr?
Antidote?
Unno?
Pedroni?
Fazzini?

Depends what you want it for but my current shortlist had one bike on it. The HB.916

I'm not trying to be negative BTW.
Just trying to be helpful as I've ridden with Martyn before and he came across as a nice guy.
Just trying to be helpful.
No one wants to splash out on something that turns out to be less than suitable.

Ibis and Transition would be on my list.
Transition easily win on looks alone. I'm sure there are loads of bikes that are technically better, but this sort of thing needs a healthy allowance made for 'heart', and for me that involves a vertical shock and a straight line from HT to rear axle. However, I love the ride of a DW link bike, so I'd be looking at Revel as well.

UDH would be an absolute necessity for future proofing, however it turns out.

I'd be tempted to spend a little less on the bike - the Atherton is what, £7K or more? - and throw the balance at a really epic riding trip, Peru, Nepal, North America or similar. I get that bikes are nice things, but in a surprisingly short time, it'll be an old, slightly outdated one and ultimately it's the riding that's memorable rather than the bike. I'd rather be planning a mega-trip than speccing a s****y bike. Obviously that's me and I'm not saying you're wrong, but maybe worth thinking about.

Just throwing ideas out there but how about a nice custom Curtis hardtail in nice candy blue paint? Love the look of those and they feel rare and special

Appreciate your perspective Stu, thank you.

you’re right actually, perhaps a bit more context would be useful however i was also using Onza’s approach to be a bit vague and see if anything interesting cropped up

anyway Peak district predominantly . Like to ride up as well as down. Currently have a Bird AM160 which is great

The one thing i’m not doing is buying something to impress strangers. I’m after something I’ll really enjoy for a long time for me, no-one else.

Its still really only window shopping at the mo so i like tbe suggestions!!

@submarined

a healthy allowance made for ‘heart’, and for me that involves a vertical shock and a straight line from HT to rear axle.

A man after my own heart. Personally I find myself very drawn to the Transition and the Last Bikes for that very reason.

The UDH is also a valid point. Scrolling through the SRAM list of adopters might help narrow the search a bit.

i was looking at a We Are One this morning. beautiful. they do various travel options now.

For sure but why would you just ask such a vague question without any specific information if you want to actually get something that’ll suit what you want the bike to do?

the talk of the pivots and atherton 150 gave me the impression that the op has an idea of what he wants and is after suggestions of similarly positioned bikes that he may not be aware of.

There’s a lot of very nice bikes out there! With a big budget you can avoid many compromises, so I’d want to really suss out (and preferably test-ride) the geometry and suspension behaviour I’d want. I wouldn’t only look at carbon frames, nice alloy stuff like Geometron, Raaw, etc are well worth considering.

When buying anything where you care about the performance, if you’re upgrading from something I’d always ask yourself - what do you most like/dislike about your current thing? The dislikes are particularly valuable when it comes to finding something better - but don’t let them outweigh the good stuff so you lose sight of what you do like.

For instance I know I like long chainstays, plenty of stack height, slightly lower than middling BB height (at sag), moderately progressive rear suspension and 29” wheels. I’d also rather have closer to 100% anti-rise and plenty of anti-squat (130%+). And most brand’s head and seat angles are about right (64/76 is fine). And I want to be able to run a long dropper! For steeper gnarlier stuff I’d consider a mullet and/or a high pivot bike.

If you’re outside normal height or have a good idea of what you like I’m gonna suggest something I have - a custom Starling.

Mine’s a singlespeed, but maybe a murmur?

I had a plan to do the same, then my 50th came and went. Seven months later I bought a Propain Tyee frame and shock and have absolutely loved building it up and keeping tinkering with different parts. Awesome bike. 🙂

But if you already have a Bird then maybe something really different like an Atherton bike will fit the bill, they do look awesome…

All options I had on my mind have already been put forward.

Perhaps put your body measurements into the Atherton calculator, see what it comes up with (even in the standard sizes). I don't know your proportions but if you're unusual, the results might be a geometry that's unlike what you can get from other manufacturers.

I'm some years off a major life milestone but I expect my first dilemma if spending this sort of money would be between eBike and normal bike. You said it's for a long time, and I'd agree, so normal bike it is.

Also you might enjoy putting a lot of thought into every single component that makes up the build.

Mate got a starling murmur. It is a properly nice bike.

If you like the look of SC, but consider them too mainstream, then you may like the SCOR 4060. I think it looks mint. Seems well reviewed too.

I'd go a Coal 84

Or a Starling.

Perhaps put your body measurements into the Atherton calculator, see what it comes up with (even in the standard sizes). I don’t know your proportions but if you’re unusual, the results might be a geometry that’s unlike what you can get from other manufacturers.

might have done the atherton calculator already..!

i am definitely not an unusual size and whilst quite an experienced rider I’m not sure i’m good enough to gain hugely from a custom geo, but the thing with Atherton seems to be multiple off the shelf options.

someone mentioned the Hope bike.. again it’s something I’ve glanced at but doesn’t it have some completely bespoke parts?
that makes me a bit uneasy.. longevity is important

Forget all the advice and opinions of others, assuming it isn't a real bad bike, just get the one you desire the most.

It's a significant purchase for a significant event and you have the funds, so the bike that makes you smile every time you look at it in the house/shed/wherever is the one to get.

I did the same a few years ago and ended up with a bike (well 2, but that's another story) that I constantly admire, even though I don't ride them anywhere near often enough.

Have you considered a stanton full sus, Ti front end and carbon rear? Can get the front end finished however you like.

Or how about Ancillotti for ultimate rarity, not even sure they are still made.

HB916 is boost rear end, normal post mount brake, T47 BB. Does come with is own headset, which has 2 upper cups to change the head angle, but hope headsets just work.

Only"bespoke" parts are the seat clamp and the idler pulley, and they're only £28 with 2 bearings.

What makes it top end? The frame, the components? I mean there's not many cheap full suss frames these days. Personally I quite like something with a story so quite fancy a Carbonwasp Truffle only they're just round the corner from me and like the idea of buying a bike made just up the road. Atherton bikes has a story too. I was also quite taken with the look of the Cotic bikes when they had a stand at Ard Rock another home grown bike. My wife probably would have gone Cotic for her recent best of everything build, but didn't want big wheels so went Santa Cruz she's very happy with it. Common maybe but there's a reason you see so many of them at Enduros.

Noticed this morning that all Last Bikes to suit some one 170-180cm are out if stock.

Smuggler frame can now be had for around £3k which is closer to what they should have been in the first place.

Onzadog

Or just perhaps, some people enjoy owning nice things for their own benefit and don’t give two shits what others might think

The OP stated that he was excluding some brands because they are 'too common' or 'too mainstream'.

This makes it sound like you value perception over performance.

I like this game, always wonder what I'd buy if I won the dreambike 8k prize. Chops and changes, but currently - Evil the Wreckoning- Deviate, any - the Hope one and slightly more left feild, I think the Niner rip RDO frame is gorgeous. It'll be different next week...

Still trying to get my head around the idea that you buy a bike because you have a significant birthday ( whatever the hell that is) rather than because you need ( or want) one.

If none carbon bikes are being included, there’s

Rå .12 and .20
Actofive P-train
Terra bikes Aria
Kingdoms range of Ti FS bikes
Reeb
Project 12
Egerie Velo Moto (custom builder who makes Paul Aston’s project frames, if that means anything to you)
*shudders* Pole (if you can get your head around the looks).

Speaking of looks, and back to carbon, it’s unlikely you’ll see another Structure Cycle Works SCW1 on the trails…

It's an excuse for wanting one, a present to yourself.

If you don't want to buy a bike to coincide with a big birthday, you don't have to. 🤦🏼‍♀️

Still trying to get my head around the idea that you buy a bike because you have a significant birthday ( whatever the hell that is) rather than because you need ( or want) one.

thanks for your input, its been valuable.

what is a significant birthday? well certainly in the generation i’ve grown up in this is things like an individuals 16th, 21st, 40th 50th. Milestones if you will.

To celebrate and commemorate these milestones, occasionally there is something of note to mark the occasion.

its by and large a harmless tradition (certainly in my peer group)

I’m at the point where i can possibly treat myself,
It just so happens that the point at which I’m thinking about a new bike is also the point where a life event happens and for me that’d be nice to commemorate.

What i can’t get my head round is folks posting snippy little comments on a thread about bikes on a bike forum.

What i can’t get my head round is folks posting snippy little comments on a thread about bikes on a bike forum.

100%!!

The frame is the boring part. When it comes to super builds the real fun comes speccing the components !

When it comes to super builds the real fun comes speccing the components !

Can confirm.

The frame is the boring part. When it comes to super builds the real fun comes speccing the components !

Totally agree, but you'll always need something to hang them on.

Current thinking is Intend fork, or maybe the new Push inverted. SRAM transmission. Onyx hubs with BERD spokes

You say Santa Cruz are a “bit common”
There could be a reason for that, they are exceptionally well built, they have a lifetime warranty on the frame and bearings, and speaking to a certain dealer in the Peak District their customer support is worth the extra cash

I know if I was in the market I definitely wouldn’t discount SC on the fact they’re a bit common

The only other boutique bike I would have on the list is the Hope HB916.

In the meantime go on as many demo days as you can

Happy hunting

The OP stated that he was excluding some brands because they are ‘too common’ or ‘too mainstream’.

This makes it sound like you value perception over performance.

Not at all. Having something different just feels special.

Having something different just feels special.

Can confirm.

I’m sure a few of you won’t believe this, but I don’t build my bikes to impress others. What is nice however, is when others are just as enthusiastic about my bikes as I am, if they aren’t, IDGAF.

I can't believe we've got all this way without someone asking the obvious question, which is why a man of such advancing years and limited skills is not buying an ebike 😉

(disclaimer when i was younger and used to ride mtb i frequently rode with @MartynS and still count him as a good friend. As I've barely ridden mtb since The Before Times, i very much doubt i could keep up with him these days, and have little to no useful knowledge to impart in terms of current cycle technology. I have LOADS of cheeky insults though)

I can’t believe we’ve got all this way without someone asking the obvious question, which is why a man of such advancing years and limited skills is not buying an ebike 😉

We didn't:

my first dilemma if spending this sort of money would be between eBike and normal bike. You said it’s for a long time, and I’d agree, so normal bike it is.

For the past 3 years ive been looking for a reason to change from my Megatower .. There is a reason why its still here... exceptional build quality and unbelievable customer service/ warranty . I have demoed the Forbiddens Deviates, Yetis and others in the last 2 years .. Still not found anything like the Mega.. I seriously recommend finding a larger demo day and trying a few

MartynS is typically towards the front of the group he rides with, up and down, so there's no need for an ebike.

Use it or lose it.

I'd go Hope, or maybe Atherton & make an event out of getting it. Invite yourself to the factory to see it getting made, spec the parts there, maybe a trip to wherever the fork & shock come from, will make it feel totally yours.

TBH, if it were mine, something from the Shand stable would probably suit the majority my current riding quite well. That's not for everyone though.

I have to say that if I was splashing the cash for a top end bike I'd be very attentive of the level of customer service... very nice having a boutique bike but not if you have no warranty 'cause the man in the sheds gone bust, or it takes 6 months to get anything done if it needs work.

Hope HB916 in Chameleon. Not sure if I'd ride it or hang it on the wall just to look at.

6 month lead time though.

How about a Contra?

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/field-test-contra-mc-the-steel-steamroller.html

Or one of the SupreDrive Nicolais

You say Santa Cruz are a “bit common”
There could be a reason for that, they are exceptionally well built, they have a lifetime warranty on the frame and bearings, and speaking to a certain dealer in the Peak District their customer support is worth the extra cash

And this is actually part of this thought process.. whilst the boutique top end stuff would be very lovely to own and ride if the support isn't there its just not worth it.

very nice having a boutique bike but not if you have no warranty ’cause the man in the sheds gone bust, or it takes 6 months to get anything done if it needs work.

so exactly this. The reading I've done the Atherton doesn't use any custom/bespoke stuff its easy to source bearings and fasteners which I assume means standard bolts!

I really appreciate the ideas. It's helping the thought process.

OP mentioned Turner or lack of. I can confirm the RFX is awesome in all ways but Dave T has had one too many significant birthdays so is now designing gravel bikes cause that what he rides now. Makes sense but sad that no more Turner MTB's. Also RFX is probably a bit short if you're coming off an AM160.
I'd go Deviate I think, cool company story and well designed and made bikes. Highlander not Claymore as it just soaked up too much and didn't feel that playful.

Support from Santa has been beyond brilliant. Even though covid I had replacement bearings with in 48 hours on my door step . A rear end warranted because of a failing grub screw in a flip chip .. 72 hours again in the hight of covid .

Could mondraker be an option, a foxy rr perhaps.

I have no idea. But to me they just look delicious.

Six month lead time on Hopes? Never! I have an H3 in raw carbon XT bike ready to ship and more in both carbon and chameleon arriving in about 6 weeks or so. And those ones can still have their details changed without losing place in line.

Personally I have a real soft spot for non far east carbon, so the Hopes, WeAreOne Arrival and even the Atherton even though I don't sell those ones should all be top of your list.

I have been on a HB130 for nearly three years and don't plan to change it any time soon. Ridden the 916 for a few days and it is a lot of fun too, I just prefer trail bikes to enduro style bikes for what we ride. That said it did pedal really well, I wonder what a 916 'light build' would be like 😀

Hope HB916 in that awesome chameleon paint job

If you after something ‘a bit special’, the SCOR 4060 and the new Scott Genius both fit the bill, certainly in terms of looks if nothing else. Kingdom Void is also a pretty thing.

I’m trying hard to resist the new Atherton AM.170 currently. The AM.150 is also lovely, but that kink in the seat tube, reducing seat post insertion is a deal breaker for me.

What about a Pyga? Bikes with a bit of back story.

Six month lead time on Hopes? Never! I have an H3 in raw carbon XT bike ready to ship and more in both carbon and chameleon arriving in about 6 weeks or so. And those ones can still have their details changed without losing place in line.

I was told when I ordered mine 5 weeks ago that it wont be here till September. Thats in Chameleon. Mine is a H2 if that makes any difference.

Are you a serial bike-swapper? Or do you tend to keep your bikes for a while?

I think geometry has got to a place where we might buy a bike and not feel it's gone obsolete within a few years. I know I'm hoping to keep my Bird Aeris 9 for 10 years or so.

But personally, I still feel there's an element of planned obsolescence in mainstream carbon FS bikes. You know they are already working on the next iteration as you're buying it.

Hence my other bikes are a Starling and an Orange, which feel a bit more lasting and have more character (in both looks and ride feel), IYKWIM.

Anyway, definitely test-ride a few candidates and see what floats your boat in terms of ride characteristics.