[Closed] Too lazy to build

I'm here to ride, not work, pal.

Now, smooth off that berm please, I'll be back in 10, yeah?

Where I do most of my riding, I would get into serious trouble for getting my tool out.

Seriously, the Malvern Conservators would take a very dim view of anyone working on the bridleways.

But I take your point.

My Mrs won't even let me have the sellotape at home. Trust me you don't want me near trails with a shovel.

"the Malvern Conservators" - they sound like a bunch not to be messed with!

Whenever I get the opportunity I'm out there, which isn't too often but it is annoying when bloody walkers and horsetorturers then go and rip it up for no apparent reason..

From what I can see the majority of people that ride bikes wouldn't even consider getting a shovel or hoe and going out on foot to repair or build trails. Am I wrong? Why is this?

No idea, but I can't recollect the last time I saw a car driver filling a pot-hole or clearing a drainage ditch either.

No idea, but I can't recollect the last time I saw a car driver filling a pot-hole or clearing a drainage ditch either.

Because roads have maintenance people to do that, it's what you pay your taxes for.

Whilst many trails/dirt jumps are maintained by volunteers who get ****ed off with winter only mtbers/carbon riding lycra clad audi driving ****waffles wrecking their jumps/berms and not lending a hand to fix them.

^What Tom said^

It's a lack of skills that put me off - 75% of the time I'm riding trail centres but when it comes to my local 'community built' trails I limit myself to shifting fallen trees and the odd branch which has mysteriously wedged itself between to narrow trees...

In fairness there's nothing that looks overtly man-made, whoever is building is a master of stealth - jumps, drops and such magically appear week to week but look like mothers nature's work.

Have just helped resurrect an XC loop near me following some felling/thinning, plenty of people have clearly been involved but would be good if others would help too, could be loads of trails round there.

I dig as much as my owd and knackered body allows, and do it alone for 95% of the time too, getting good trail builders is like pulling teeth, everyone is quick to ride the stuff when its done tho (strange innit) most people are lazy and selfish (and admit it too) so I have to do things myself 'my way' or it doesn't get done at all.

I'm with you Dan - from your neck of the woods, and am getting a bit sick of clearing trails only for some asshats to destroy them with inept riding and/or riding them when too wet. The guy with the blue paint can stick it right up his hole too...

and I believe its our god given right and duty to fettle any trail up a little bit (for flow and fun) and the good of mankind! but only if it doesn't leave holes or destroy another part of the place in doing so.

Whilst many trails/dirt jumps are maintained by volunteers who get **** off with winter only mtbers/carbon riding lycra clad audi driving ****waffles wrecking their jumps/berms and not lending a hand to fix them.

I tend to mostly ride existing rights of way, which have for the most part been finely sculptured by horses hooves.
Besides, any decent enduro bike doesn't need a groomed trail in the first place.

"the Malvern Conservators" - they sound like a bunch not to be messed with!

They have a legal responsibility for the upkeep the Malvern Hills, and on the whole do a good job in keeping trails open for everyone. What gets them going, and quite rightly in my opinion, is unauthorised digging, trail building etc. and people riding on the scheduled monuments

The Conservators manage over 1200 hectares (3000 acres) including most of the Hills and the surrounding Commons, some other parcels of land and many roadside verges according to the Malvern Hills Acts 1884 to 1995. The Malvern Hills Acts were drawn up to protect the rights of Commoners and the public and to prevent encroachment on the Malvern Hills, lands and commons. Under these and other relevant Acts the Malvern Hills Conservators shall manage the Hills to:

Preserve the natural aspect
Protect and manage trees, shrubs, turf, and other vegetation.
Prevent unlawful digging and quarrying.
Keep the Hills open, unenclosed and unbuilt on as open spaces for the recreation and enjoyment of the public.
Conserve and enhance biodiversity, Sites of Special Scientific Interest and Scheduled Ancient monuments on its land.

http://www.malvernhills.org.uk/conservators/index.aspx

I've been riding MTB for 25 years and never once built or maintained a trail. I just ride what's there. Why on earth would you need to? It's not BMX.

Ahh good - shouty sweary Tom is here on his high horse.

Maybe those Audi drivers contribute in other ways,like using local shops and cafes and spending money on car parking and stuff. Maybe they don't have time - a lot of people have children/wives to keep entertain on a weekend and as such would rather ride than dig.

Maybe its not lazy, it's priorities ...

If you build stuff for your own benefit on public land, expect other people to ride it, if you dont like it, buy your own wood and build there! otherwise

robgclarkson - Member

I'm here to ride, not work, pal.

Now, smooth off that berm please, I'll be back in 10, yeah?

Hi Tom Audi driver here btw. I know round by me the trails I mainly ride could do with some maintenance and I'd quite happily spend a couple of extra hours digging/sculpting trail but would have no idea where to start as I aint a landscaper plus since there a good old distance from the car trying to get tools and/or materials there would be a fair hassle.

Seriously, the Malvern Conservators would take a very dim view of anyone working on the bridleways.

Surely they would let us build berms and table tops once the chairlift is built? 🙂

If I ride a trail centre it costs me money so I assume the trail building is paid for from that.

If I ride a bridleway (90% of my riding) I don't want artificial crap on it anyway.

I know there's a big difference between conservation areas, England, Scotland, forestry or estate land etc. I guess this is more about the basic principle. Even people spending 30 mins clearing things now and then would be great. But I know local clubs and mtb groups where next to nobody does any trail work yet they regularly ride away from trail centres on trails that someone has spent weeks making for nothing but the love of the sport. It just feels a bit unfair.

I think the majority of people are too lazy to even learn how to ride a bike properly, let alone build trails.

Imagine if you'd built a sweet booter on the trail, and then the next time you go back you find some mincer has flattened it because they've never even bothered to learn how to jump properly.

You'd probably end up with something like this http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2014/12/fallen_tree_causes_portland_mo.html

Doesn't take much to put a folding saw and folding shovel into a riding pack.
That way you can take 10 mins to clear anything particularly bad.
Have ended up cutting through a number of fallen trees clearing trails using my saw.
Saw can't weigh more than 400g anyway so its easy enough to carry

Imagine if you'd built a sweet booter on the trail, and then the next time you go back you find some mincer has flattened it because they've never even bothered to learn how to jump properly.

What if I'm just a novice, do I need to have lessons before I ride on your trail? Or just expected to rebuild it when I break it?

(WTF is a 'booter'?)

I've always assumed people who build trails do so because they enjoy doing so. As part of their hobby, a bit of fun just like riding their bikes. Apart from a bit of deadfall clearing I never touch any trails, just ride whats there.
Honestly if your going to be arsey about it just don't bother, I'll still be out there riding whatever, the same as most others.

I do a fair bit- more than most, less than some- but only because I enjoy it, whether solo or in a mob. A huge amount of the social side of mountain biking comes from the digging, for me, in fact in a roundabout way I suppose I owe most of it to that since it was trailfairying at Glentress that really turned me from an occasional rider to an Enthusiast, and also put me in touch with more riders, racing, all that. Oh and it was kinda cool having Steve Peat tell me how much he loved the new trail we built for the EWS.

Locally, my riding is better for what I do- even if it's just spending a couple of hours whacking nettles or digging drains or clearing deadfall. (I can't jump so I don't build jumps, but the mad kids don't build drainage so I come along once they're gone and make things last a bit better)

So I suppose I'm saying 2 very similiar things here- it should be its own reward, I wouldn't do it if I hated it. But also, don't underestimate the benefits, I've got way more out of digging than I've given.

Oh- re paying for your trails, most trail centres struggle for investment, even at honeypots like Glentress the maintenance budget is stretched, and overall it's never likely to see a cost benefit. But even if your local riding spot is well funded, they could do more if they had more.

I ran into Paul Burwell from MBR up at Surrey on NYE, he was busy putting another jump into the new(ish) jump line up there. He had a good moan about people who ride but don't dig. I neglected to mention that with 3 young kids I barely have time to ride so fit into that category. I can see the annoyance but for some of us it's just not practical to devote the time. Been meaning to donate some money for tools to the guys who build the trails round my way (Steyning MTB), they do a great job. Must get that done.

Digging jumps and what not in the Surrey Hills is idiotic anyway, sufficiently contentious land without fuelling the fires!

I usually drain puddles that have formed on trails, and pick up tear offs and other litter, but I'm not sure my local trail builders would be very happy with me taking a spade to their trails and 'improving' them for internet brownie points

I spent 3 years trying to organise trail maintenance sessions in the Pentland Hills. It was one of the most frustrating and fruitless exercises I've ever undertaken.

FWIW, a mate and I moved a fallen tree off a trail today.

Hats off to the boys that dig on Woodbury Common.. They put in a lot of work but seriously, although the stuff up there is top notch, it's always one of the least inspiring parts of the ride if and when I can be bothered to ride it..

The more natural trails that have been there for years with little or no conscious human input are far more rewarding.. Immaculate groomed trails with berms and carefully measured transitions don't have any soul from my point of view..
It's also pretty funny that this smooth Scalextric style trail seems to require such massive suspension and tons of safety gear..

That said, they're fun little links and diversions between the 'real' trails when I'm pootling about on my shonky rigid bike 🙂

Saw can't weigh more than 400g anyway so its easy enough to carry

Have always done a bit of trimming and tidying on my local stuff, but have only recently started 'proper' building. Enjoying it so far - it's a different vibe to riding but still part of the same activity. There are a small group of us building locally and it's cool to ride the different 'personalities' of trail. I've discovered I tend to build tight, twisty, technical stuff rather than fast and flowy.

What if I'm just a novice, do I need to have lessons before I ride on your trail? Or just expected to rebuild it when I break it?

(WTF is a 'booter'?)

+2 ^^^

And what all the others said about priorities, 2 children and their activities take up most of my weekend and then work takes up the week. This situation leaves very little time for riding let alone building which I know bugger all about, that said I will at some point in the next 6 months drag the children up to QECP for one or two of the dig days where my activity can be controlled and monitored. If it's not I might inadvertently build a booster in the wrong place 🙂

If I ride a trail centre it costs me money so I assume the trail building is paid for from that.
If I ride a bridleway (90% of my riding) I don't want artificial crap on it anyway.

+1

If I found any "sweet booter" on a public right of way, then sorry guys, I'm gonna probably make sure it's destroyed. We have to share them with all the other legitimate users and I don't want to get a bad reputation just because you don't have the skill to get air off natural obstacles. If you can't cope with the trails being natural then keep to your trail centres.

If I found any "sweet booter" on a public right of way, then sorry guys, I'm gonna probably make sure it's destroyed. We have to share them with all the other legitimate users and I don't want to get a bad reputation just because you don't have the skill to get air off natural obstacles. If you can't cope with the trails being natural then keep to your trail centres.

+ another. I don't do trail centres basically & FWIW I've only ever ridden 2, GT 3 times, last time was about 7 years ago & Dalby about 2 years ago. Oh, I went to Stainburn once as well.
However, I do realise that you're talking about regular TC & jumpy riders not rebuilding. Right?

I'll stick to the natch stuff in the Dales & on the NYM.
( I did move a twig that was in my way once, does that count?)

Cmon, so end tell us what a booster is 🙂

Nick1962
Mine is called a silky bigboy (yes yes fnar) it weighs 450g according to the silky site.
****ing amazing saw

So not everyone is as committed as you to digging, big whoop, what do you want a medal?

I've done my fair share of building and repairing trails in the past, I have done a little bit on my local trails in the last year but TBH I'm in the same kids/work/having a life boat as many others...

And sorry but sanctimonious trail boss types are generally the best way to kill any riding spot, it's not [i]just[/i] about the trails.
I don't really see why people have to pay homage to some arse with a shovel because he chooses to hide from his missus in the woods all weekend...

If I found any "sweet booter" on a public right of way, then sorry guys, I'm gonna probably make sure it's destroyed. We have to share them with all the other legitimate users and I don't want to get a bad reputation just because you don't have the skill to get air off natural obstacles. If you can't cope with the trails being natural then keep to your trail centres.

The OP is not from England, and so, your quaint 'bridleways' are of no concern. He's actually pointing out that lots of MTBers are selfish ****s, and this thread has confirmed his suspicions.

I don't do gardening. But if there is any digging needed round the Didcot area then point me in the right direction.

And trailbuilding is not all about jumps, as lots of you point out, a wee bit of drainage work can make a trail a really good trail.

Ah, "your trail" mentioned a few times here. Been a discussion about this today over on FB.

So a question you can ask is what makes it your property if you built it illegally in the first place?

And if you build it where the public ride (still doesn't make it legal to build), fair play to the effort involved but you can't expect it to just be your property, or insist people contribute, or lay down rules like "no videos on pinkbike, no Strava" after building it in a very busy location 😉

Not saying people shouldn't put something back into it and yes I wish I did do more, but in most cases outside of trail centres and official builds it's asking people to do something illegal to add to the illegally built trail anyway. Though obviously it's crazy that building may be illegal but riding it may not be.

and this thread has confirmed his suspicions

I hope I'm not included in his suspicions!

But I know local clubs and mtb groups where next to nobody does any trail work

None of these trails are 'illegal' AFAIK, they are in public land in Scotland

"The OP is not from England, and so, your quaint 'bridleways' are of no concern. He's actually pointing out that lots of MTBers are selfish ****, and this thread has confirmed his suspicions. "

I'm sorry but i'm really going to have to take issue with that statement.

I've been riding bikes off road for 30 years plus as have a few of my mates. For years and years we just got on with our thing riding around on bridleways and through private woods that allowed us access. Over the last 10 years or so I've seen a proliferation in trail building around the local woods that usually preceeds the woods becoming full of people pushing bikes uphill, litter, confrontation with other users of the woods and inevitably restricted access.

Just because some of you lot can't ride a bike without some kind of earth bank or wooden structure to launch your gnar off means I'm selfish if I don't join you? The woods were around a long time before your purple shorts and they will be there long after you've gone.

The odd bit of cutback and moving logs is fine and I'm happy to help but you can f'off with your shovels thanks.

Throwing this one out there for a kick 😀 ... remember Supernova? Which is selfish, riding it without digging or digging a kick ass gap in a well established busy trail used by all abilities and expecting everyone to just deal with it?

I'm on the fence a bit here as I see all sides and appreciated the gap and wanted to ride it myself, but also felt it seemed a bit selfish to just stick it where it was. And then would it be right for someone to fill the gap in because they don't like it? Is that selfish?

Just stirring things 😈

"The OP is not from England, and so, your quaint 'bridleways' are of no concern. He's actually pointing out that lots of MTBers are selfish ****, and this thread has confirmed his suspicions. "

I'm sorry but i'm really going to have to take issue with that statement.

I've been riding bikes off road for 30 years plus as have a few of my mates. For years and years we just got on with our thing riding around on bridleways and through private woods that allowed us access. Over the last 10 years or so I've seen a proliferation in trail building around the local woods that usually preceeds the woods becoming full of people pushing bikes uphill, litter, confrontation with other users of the woods and inevitably restricted access.

Just because some of you lot can't ride a bike without some kind of earth bank or wooden structure to launch your gnar off means I'm selfish if I don't join you? The woods were around a long time before your purple shorts and they will be there long after you've gone.

The odd bit of cutback and moving logs is fine and I'm happy to help but you can f'off with your shovels thanks.

I don't build jumps, read my last post. So there are no boggy sections where you ride? I'll need to come and ride there. Please feel free to add your nonsensical prejudices about enduro colours etc, makes you really cool mate.

Oh, and as for litter, XC racers and roadies are by far the worst for this, with their bloody gel packets and burst tubes.

I'm not selfish, I'm the opposite. I care about all the users of the trail. What is a nice jump for one person is a death trap to another rider.

Well I'm with Winston on this now. I too have been riding since well before trail building was around & if you want to break you back fannying around to give yourself something more, well crack on! But If I come across it & ride it don't expect me to 'pop down' a rebuild it. Put it where I can't find it or find somewhere private to do it.

So there are no boggy sections where you ride?

What?? I ride the Dales & North York Moors! Where shall I start the drainage?

Are you nuts?

If there's a boggy section I ride through it. Are you riding a road bike or something?

Not saying people shouldn't put something back into it and yes I wish I did do more, but in most cases outside of trail centres and official builds it's asking people to do something illegal to add to the illegally built trail anyway. Though obviously it's crazy that building may be illegal but riding it may not be.

Why is it crazy? I'm not talking about building kickers, booters, doubles etc, but drainage and sustaining the trail are not 'crazy'.

You lot will never, ever get your access issues changed if you sit on your hands and do bugger all. But that's another argument altogether!.

esselgruntfuttock - Member

I too have been riding since well before trail building was around

Raised eyebrow.

Maybe fair enough Northwind, but in 1990 I cant recall any trailbuilding where I was riding.

They must have just appeared, did you see Paul Daniels and Debbie Magee round every corner?

What is a nice jump for one person is a death trap to another rider.

Proving you can't read, again.

Why is it crazy? I'm it talking about building kickers, booters, doubles etc, but drainage and sustaining the trail are not 'crazy'.

You lot will never, ever get your access issues changed if you sit on your hands and do bugger all. But that's another argument altogether!.

I'm with you with the drainage stuff and subtle maintenance. There are some great trails that don't have obvious big features, have much work on them and yet people think they're just natural trails. If trails in busy public areas were more of this we'd have less of the access issues anyway. It would still be illegal for me to even do drainage work if it's an illegal build anyway. There are enough issues already in places I ride with locals and rangers threatening to get the police in because some badgers have been disturbed etc. I don't want to get a shovel out and then find an angry owner pointing a gun at me.

As for the big jumps build, I'm not knocking them either, but I do have a concern about the level of activity at the moment in busy places used by all abilities, illegally built and the whole thing is going to reach breaking point, likely only on the negative side when it comes to access.

Enough of the "you lot". We're all on the same side. We ride bikes.

I don't build trails but do spend the time now an then to remove fallen tress from the paths that make up my local rides
Does not take much time to drive and walk a bit with an axe/saw to clear things a bits

I don't want to get a shovel out and then find an angry owner pointing a gun at me.

I agree with lots of your post, and orangeboy too, but in reality how often does this ^^^ happen? About as often as the much vaunted 'suing' of riders.

Edit - you lot was meant in terms of the archaic access laws in England and Wales, not people who don't build trails mate.

orangeboy - Member
I don't build trails but do spend the time now an then to remove fallen tress from the paths that make up my local rides

Likewise, though I don't carry a saw etc, but if it's something I can clear by hand or with help, I'll do it. Ditto with litter, though sometimes it just pisses me off so much I feel why should I clear up after others. On that point, jumps spots in some places where kids do the digging, litter everywhere from the kids doing the digging 😥

Edit - you lot was meant in terms of the archaic access laws in England and Wales, not people who don't build trails mate.

Fair point 🙂

Who's selfish now?

I'm not disagreeing with you, pisses me off the amount of red bull style cans that are left at local jump spots, but at least they have the excuse of youth and ignorance, go and follow a sportive, see how many middle agers leave shite after them.

They must have just appeared,

When did they 'just appear' then?
It actually makes no difference to me when they appeared. I don't use them so don't feel any urge/need/want or otherwise to build or maintain trails. I ride what's there & enjoy it, simple. The worse that bridleways get because of wear & erosion just make things more interesting & I wouldn't like to be involved in the sanitisation of some of our ROW.

(NOT that I want to see B/Ways & ROW become impassable I might add, but that's what local authorities & my taxes are for)

When did they 'just appear' then?
It actually makes no difference to me when they appeared. I don't use them so don't feel any urge/need/want or otherwise to build or maintain trails. I ride what's there & enjoy it, simple. The worse that bridleways get because of wear & erosion just make things more interesting & I wouldn't like to be involved in the sanitisation of some of our ROW.

(NOT that I want to see B/Ways & ROW become impassable I might add, but that's what local authorities & my taxes are for)

Ah, the taxes argument. Do you shout this at commuters too?. As I said earlier, your trail structure is pretty irrelevant to the discussion, do catch up. I hope England and Wales eventually get some decent access, but attitudes like will probably stop it. I'm guessing you're over 50?.

tbh I like th look of the silky boy saw..

I've had a few close incidents of broken branches that you only see when they're about to impale you.....

I hope England and Wales eventually get some decent access, but attitudes like will probably stop it. I'm guessing you're over 50?.

The fact that I am over 50 & you actually knew, astounds me. How did you know that?
I'm guessing you're Scottish.

I don't really know what your'e getting at here. Do you expect very offroad cyclist to put in some work on the trails/bridleways/rights of way that they use? Please enlighten me, a long term offroad rights of way user, what you'd like ME to do.

You've wallpapered over your ridiculous taxes argument. If you think you have absolutely nothing to do, and are happy to keep taking, taking, and taking some more, then fair do's, enjoy your riding. I'm out, happy new year, and keep taking. 🙄

esselgruntfuttock- Member

The worse that bridleways get because of wear & erosion just make things more interesting & I wouldn't like to be involved in the sanitisation of some of our ROW.

You do realise that it's often wear and erosion that causes sanitation?

Just to point out, I never wrote that! 😀

You've wallpapered over your ridiculous taxes argument. If you think you have absolutely nothing to do, and are happy to keep taking, taking, and taking some more, then fair do's, enjoy your riding. I'm out, happy new year, and keep taking.

I still don't know what you expect from your everyday user of ROW in England & I only mentioned taxes because that's where ROW maintenance in England is funded from IE local authority (except when private landowners fund maintenance for their own interest, IE shooting & personal access)
& 'taking, taking, and taking some more' What do you want people to do on England? I'm talking bridleways & other ROW open to cyclists, do you expect me to start drainage work on a clarty track used by farmers every day? (as an example)? Honestly, give me an idea of what you'd expect of the average English offroad rider who doesn't use purpose built venues.

Big fat slow ninja edit

boggy and poorly drained bits ftw. they'll erode and make it more interesting. eventually the loggers will come along, f*** it up beyond all recognition anyway, and eventually put gravel down to make it passable again. then it'll bed in and erode again.

trees down? leave them. walkers and bikers will make a new path round it. only in exceptional circumstances have i had to maybe snap a branch off to get over/under/past a fallen tree on a hillside. park rangers will eventually chop it up or drag it to one side.

plenty of fallen trees that have eventually "evolved" in to the trail.

most standing water I've seen is the "manicured" man-made trails. always a puddle before every single roller, jump, double. do they put them there on purpose?

not lazy, just tend not to ride purpose built or illegal/cheeky trails. maps ftw.

Can someone sort that big wheel sucking puddle out under the bridge on New Rd tomorrow morning please.I'm after a Strava PB in the afternoon.Cheers.

Can someone sort that big wheel sucking puddle out under the bridge on New Rd tomorrow morning please.I'm after a Strava PB in the afternoon.Cheers.

I'm on it Nick, always carry a big **** off pump in me Dakine just for these occasions.

You don't have to know how to build trails to help out maintaining them. It's just basic courtesy to do things like pat down the lip of a landing if you've come up short etc.

To think your above doing this is downright rude and arrogant.

Also, I had to laugh at the bloke saying he doesn't ride smooth trails because he has a decent enduro bike.

smooth trails are like bald fannies..

they're for little kids and perverts

It's just basic courtesy to do things like pat down the lip of a landing if you've come up short etc.

When should one do this? Immediately after the event, later that day?

If one is riding with friends does one wait for their friends to jump or fix it first so they have a perfect jump to use too?

As already said, there's an assumption going on here that we all ride dirt jumps.