[Closed] Toe overlap?

Surely you don't move cleats to avoid toe overlap? Unless they are in the wrong place anyway.

Assuming you not on a frame that is too small or that you clown feet. Check your cleat position as above.

New CX bike... You'll get used to it.. I wouldnt move your cleats just because of overlap. Just try not to scratch the new carbon when you fall off. You just need a slighly different foot position when cornering tightly. Go onto a grass field and start riding in circles.

5' 9" 32" inseam, size 9 feet on a 54cm frame.

I thought that by moving my cleats all the way forward I would gain an inch or so as they are all the way back at the moment. Not something I want to do as I imagine it would be hard work, saying that so is falling off every 5 minutes!

Thanks.

New CX bike... You'll get used to it.. I wouldnt move your cleats just because of overlap. Just try not to scratch the new carbon when you fall off

I'm more worried about scratching me! Luckily no one spotted me, was back on the bike and pedalling within 5 seconds as if nothing happened.

What happens on the moors, stays on the moors!

Surely the only factor governing the position of your cleats should be getting your feet in the right position relative to the cranks?

you wanna try it on a fixed with toe overlap 😉

I've been caught out by this when riding my Langster in fixie mode, turning sharply at slow speed has ended up with me lying in the road a couple of times 😳 Luckily no other traffic around to run me over though. If running a freewheel I just remember to have my pedals at 6 o'clock position for slow speed tight turning manoeuvers instead of the normal quarter to 3 position I would adopt on my MTB.

I feel you pain! I'm getting used to the six o'clock position on the road it's just impossible on the slow uphill xc stuff.

Surely the only factor governing the position of your cleats should be getting your feet in the right position relative to the cranks?

But I'm not sure that they are in the correct position, currently the cleats are as far back as they can go. Is there a 'correct' position or is it just a case of where feels best?

I had a brief fling with spds a while back but I'm more of a flat pedal man. Are flats allowed on a cx bike? 😳

It's a case of where feels best.

Toe overlap is a by product of the bike shape/design/handling characteristics of road and Cx bikes.

You soon learn not to turn too much with a foot forwards.

You will gett used to toe overlap very quickly. It is a neccassity on a bike that small. Enjoy it ..

What crank length do you have? For your height ideally it should be around 165mm.

You'll get used to it. I've got it on one bike, hated the first few rides and until this thread have now forgotten about it.

Cleats furthest back is not ideal though - unless you're trying a mid foot position. Under the ball of the foot is generally agreed to be most efficient.

Cleats furthest back is not ideal though - unless you're trying a mid foot position. Under the ball of the foot is generally agreed to be most efficient.

Cleats right back is no where near mid-foot position though.
Most people have the cleats set up too far forward, putting too much pressure on the front of the feet.

Ball of the foot over the axle centre, or just ahead is best practice as you say.

It's because modern bikes are designed for racing. They're far too short for 'just riding'. MTB geometry is finally OK (try riding a bike from the mid 90s and you'll get my point), hopefully roadies / CX will catch up eventually.

Cleats right back is no where near mid-foot position though.
Most people have the cleats set up too far forward, putting too much pressure on the front of the feet.

No, but I can imagine folk may want to try as far back as possible before drilling holes in shoes - just meant that unless it was an intentional decision it's likely misguided.

Will set the cleats up properly and concentrate more on foot position.

Love how quick it is, just going to take some getting used to.

Somebody beat me to it.... What length cranks are you running?

Ah sorry, forgot to say 172.5mm.

Even if I used 165mm cranks they'd only be 7.5mm longer, the tyre is catching the ball of my foot. Or am I missing something?

Ball of your foot? That's not toe overlap, that's half a foot overlap. That does sound very odd.

Have you got the forks on the wrong way round?

Nah. 172 would be right by conventional wisdom. There's some schools of thought that much shorter is correct, but I'm the same height as you and found 170s odd.

With the overlap, you start to accommodate for it anyway after a while. If you feel it happening, in a trackstand or a tricky slow corner, then sometimes lifting your heel will drop the toe enough to clear the wheel. And sometimes not...

OP you are Claude Hopper and I claim my £5.00.

This needs pictures

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Haha, had to laugh at that picture. That's exactly how I feel every time I fall off.

[IMG] [/IMG]

Forks are on the correct way, will take some pics tonight of the shoe/wheel position as this is the only pic I have at the moment and it doesn't look too bad.

Probably not quite the ball, but it's at least a good couple of inches it's catching by.

I just got a new road bike and managed to go otb within 30 seconds of taking it out on my road 😆

Scared the living shit out of me in all honesty but certainly glad to have highlighted the issue early doors.

It's seemingly only an issue when attempting fairly tight turns or u-turn type manoeuvres, could cause the odd issue when pushing off from a standstill however.

Mentally I just need to get it out of my head as it will not happen when riding normally.

Fit your cleats independently of everything else, I'd say the position is more important than toe overlap. Having said that if you move your cleats slightly inboard (should affect foot comfort much) will help with overlap a little, shorter cranks is the first thing to try (and sell me your 172mm 🙂 ) I've size 12 feet, manage OK on my pro6 with my current 175 cranks, only have probs when I have mudguards fitted (so just 95% of the time then 🙄 ) doing trackstands or endoing round slalom gates.

Is the XLS as really compact/short wheelbase frame then?

How was the downhill? Done san marino (very) slowly but not tried kennels CX yet.

Happens on my roadie all the time at slow speed, manouvering through gates etc etc. It wouldn't be ideal on a CX bike I must admit.

I could probably live with it on road. I did just catch the wheel on the way home, but after going down like a sack of spuds earlier it put the fear of God in me.

How was the downhill? Done san marino (very) slowly but not tried kennels CX yet.

Horrible 😯 Had lost confidence after coming off, on the hoods so I could reach the brakes so felt like I had all my weight forward. Hopefully I will get a bit quicker after a few more runs but it takes a lot more effort than just wafting down on the fs that's for sure.

Will move the cleats over and see how it feels thanks.

Scraping along tarmac hurts as well, it's just a case of knowing how to avoid it happening and pedal positioning.

bluearsedfly - Member
...on the hoods so I could reach the brakes...

you can of course do what you want, but you'd be better off in the drops.

you can of course do what you want.

Mmm, suppose the overlap issue is due to not having 170mm cranks and fat tyres 😀
What size feet do you have, I have 12s and the overlap on my road bike is minimal although it's there and I have got used to riding it now and avoiding the situation.
Frame for sale? 😆

I get toe overlap on my small Boardman CX with size 8 feet.Also had a painful comedy crash turning sharply from a main road up a dropped kerb.I moved my cleats back and scarcely notice it now off road but when I first put my summer shoes on I almost crashed again as the cleats were further foward than my winter ones.
I ride most of the same routes as on my MTB and as I don't wear clips on my MTB , steep rocky descents on my CX were tricky to begin with.Suicide levers that came stock on the bike seemed to give me more confidence.

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As you can see it catches by a fair bit, wheel is hardly at acute angle.

Size 9 xc50 shoes, xt pedals, 172.5mm crank arms. Is this right or am I being a numpty?

Have you moved your cleats?

[IMG] [/IMG]

They weren't on the first pic but they are now, probably moved them forwards just over half an inch.

^ Your foot still seems a long way fwd over the pedals in that lower pic, it could be the pic angle but with the axle a little behind the ball of my foot the pedal axle looks to be just behind the widest bit of the inside-fwd edge of my shoe. About 1/2 - 1" different to how yours look?

There's a guide that says if there was a line between the 2 most sticky-out bits of the edges of your foot (forgive me I'm not a Dr etc) then the cleat should sit in the centre of that line, roughly.

Was taken more or less from above tbh, will put them as far forward as poss and see how it looks for reference.

Cheers!

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That's as far forward and inboard as the cleats will go.

Just realised the grass needs mowing too.

You are getting close to what is acceptable.

If your foot is level it still looks like you could use a bit more adjustment.

What pedals are you using?

There should be two sets of cleat fixing holes in the sole plate, can you take them off and move the cleat forward to the next pair.

Yes the cleat is on the furthest forward pair of holes, the cleat bolts are as far forward in the slots on the sole of the shoe as possible.

Not sure id like to ride with the cleats that far forward, pedals are XT trails.

Is your foot horizontal in that pic? Does it feel as if the pedal is under the ball of your foot? The pedal still looks quite far back, but that could be the angle.

It might be worth having a bike fit

In that last pic the overlap looks fairly normal?

Best suggestion is to set your cleats where they suit and then practice some slow speed tight turns on a nice bit of grass. Get used to standing and dipping your toes.

I have recently (3 weeks) taken delivery of my own Planet X XLS. Size Medium.

I am 5'10 with clown feet - size 11, so if anyone is going to get toe overlap, it's me.

On the XLS, like all my bikes, I do get toe overlap. However, after my toe hitting the tyre on the first ride, not hit it again in the subsequent 60 miles. This is with no conscious effort to adapt riding style. Must just be doing it sub consciously.

In other news, it really is a great bike.

Hmm, that last pic looks better - with the axel where I'd expect it, just behind the sticky out lump behind your big toe ([url= ]the tibial sesamoid apparently[/url]) but I would expect that to be closer to the middle of the range of cleat movement not at the very end - could be the angle/perspective of the camera maybe. Amount of toe overlap looks reasonable aswell in the last pic.

You really need to be riding on the drops on rough downhills tho, your hands are bound to get bounced off the hoods, if it's really too low raise the bars a bit. Learn to get your arse behind the saddle on steep stuff aswell. CX appears* to be a different technique, you can't mince down slowly with the rear tyre scraping your shorts, bit more speed and momentum with your weight further forward. I'm a confirmed saddle dropper on the MTB so getting used to steep downs on my cx was hard work and I still get nervous but it gets better quite quickly. I can get behind the saddle ok but getting back over the top when the trail bottoms out occasionally gets me, usually with humorous consequences 😳

*just a guess, not had any training or even read any CX technique** mag articles
**officially it's probably "get off and run"
😉

I'm surprised no one has picked up on what the problem here is. You are trying to ride a CX bike like it was a XC bike. When you get in a steep slow techie climb type situation you should jump off it, sling it over your shoulder and run!

Hard to tell from the pictures if the cleat is right or not as you cannot tell the angle. I mark on the shoe where the ball of my foot is using a pen, then adjust using that mark. Conventional wisdom is that it should be over or just slightly in front of the pedal axle. I wouldn't have it any further forward.

Top overlap is not unusual for bikes like this. They are designed to be ridden as speed where you don't turn the bars in the same way. Even on a CX course with sharp bends I never notice the tow overlap because my pedals are in a different position and I'm not pedaling. While the first comment I made was meant in jest, there is a bit of truth in it - they are not XC bikes and thus don't excel in situations where a XC bike does.

Thanks lads, some great pointers there that I will bear in mind. Given me a bit more confidence in what I'm trying to do.

As said, I think a lot of my problems stem from pushing the bike too far. I suppose it is a 'cx' bike and not an xc bike, I have been riding it like a rigid hardtail.

I do find it hard work on the steeper downhill stuff as I feel all my weight is forward, especially as I'm so used to having the saddle down and my arse over the back wheel which is kind of why I was on the hoods as it felt my weight was a tad further back.

I guess it's just going to take a bit more practice (and carrying)!

Thanks again.