Todays helmet story
 

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[Closed] Todays helmet story

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lovely sunny day, off on the road bike for lunch and coffee. Cycling slowly around the local lake to the road on tarmac path over the speed bump I have cycled a 1000 times before and crashed at 5mph or slower. How? No idea.

Result visit to minor injury unit for nasty cut that needed gluing. Caught some metal work I guess to my hand but....

helmet - wow complete write off. Took full impact and I have slight graze from the impact on my head. Helmet broke and well dented from gravel/tarmac. That would have bloody hurt. Time for a new helmet.

Just wanted to share this to remind us all about helmets even on the shortest journey may save you from a lot of pain 🙂


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 12:49 pm
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Helmet gave you false sense of security, meant you rode with more gnar and fell off. Wouldn't have happened if you rode naked.


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 1:09 pm
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The moral of this story is not "wear a helmet" but "look where you're going" 😀


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 1:11 pm
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How? No idea.

Struck on the head by a meteorite and knocked to the ground?
Good job you were wearing your anti-meteor helmet.


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 1:14 pm
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Just confirms that a soft fragile substances does actually brake when you drop it.

Where as a hard thing like a skull doesn't brake when you drop it


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 1:20 pm
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Dont think i've ever waded in on the helmet debate but here goes...

No issues if you choose to not wear a helmet, its your head afterall, but always find it a bit irresponsible when people come on hear saying the don't work or aren't really required. Most of the evidence from doctors suggests its a good idea to wear one and whether you agree or not its probably not a good idea to discourage others from doing so...


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 1:44 pm
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I once took a nasty blow to the helmet when I crashed my racer into a wall as a kid and connected with the stem. Some pretty nasty grazing all round.

Wasn't wearing any cranium protection, though. Lucky my face went into a hedge.

😉


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 1:48 pm
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Dont think i've ever waded in on the helmet debate but here goes...

No issues if you choose to not wear a helmet, its your head afterall, but always find it a bit irresponsible when people come on hear saying the don't work or aren't really required. Most of the evidence from doctors suggests its a good idea to wear one and whether you agree or not its probably not a good idea to discourage others from doing so...

You're statistically more likely to injure your head when travelling in a car. So it's a good idea to wear one in the car and it's a bit irresponsible to disagree.

Likewise, I told my window cleaner the other day how irresponsible he was for climbing a ladder without a helmet in front of my children.


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 1:52 pm
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You're statistically more likely to be killed by a car when riding your bicycle than anything else. Therefore you should drive a car when riding your bicycle.


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 1:55 pm
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No issues if you choose to not wear a helmet, its your head afterall, but always find it a bit irresponsible when people come on hear saying the don't work or aren't really required. Most of the evidence from doctors suggests its a good idea to wear one and whether you agree or not its probably not a good idea to discourage others from doing so...

I think most of the arguments stem from people who say they 'saved their life' and then describe a slow speed fall or bumping their head off a branch, when we have all (probably) clouted our heads much worse when playing as kids or similar.

Helmets will certainly help stop serious cuts and damage to your scalp, and possibly ears / nose / face (by virtue of helmets being bigger than your head). They may help prevent death but again most of the arguments are about helmets for casual slow speed cycling, which is no more risk than walking or running.


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 1:56 pm
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tpbiker - Member
Dont think i've ever waded in on the helmet debate but here goes...

No issues if you choose to not wear a helmet, its your head afterall, but always find it a bit irresponsible when people come on hear saying the don't work or aren't really required. Most of the evidence from doctors suggests its a good idea to wear one and whether you agree or not its probably not a good idea to discourage others from doing so...

To summarise, the reason people suggest not wearing a helmet is fine is because more people will die from being inactive than from falling off a bike. Going on about your expensive, inconvenient foam hat saving you from injury or death will put people off just going out for a ride.

If I fell over jogging or walking and bumped my head, I wouldn't be on here saying how dangerous these activities were and how I really should buy a helmet. They have their place, but you really are very unlucky to need one at 5mph on a road pootle to the shops.

I wear a helmet most of the time on a bike, and all of the time I mountain bike.


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 2:01 pm
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Most of the evidence from doctors suggests its a good idea to wear one

Last I heard doctors treated injuries. They didn't do accident analysis and helmet construction science. Studies suggest the benefits of helmets are too modest to capture according to Ben Goldacre and David Spiegelhalter. If anyone suggests helmets are needed for 5mph falls then we are talking walking helmets next.

http://road.cc/content/news/85306-top-scientists-cycle-helmets-debate-will-go-and-and


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 2:15 pm
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I never realised I was such a sheep, but reading the 5 or so responses surrounding mine I'd like to change my opinion please!


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 2:31 pm
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That speed bump was total gnar almost 2 inches plus. I would have been very sore and cut I'm. It surprised me just what damage you can do at walking speed.

You can have the debate about wearing your helmet. It's your head. Without doubt saved my head from a lot of gravel rash and impact.

Just looked at scuffed gloves, they saved the gravel rash.

I was looking where I was going the path is Tarmac like 2m wide. No other idiots involved!


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 3:18 pm
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I recently hurt my head when I dropped my bike lifting it of the roof carrier. Statistically, where does this leave me? Should I have been wearing a helmet?


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 3:44 pm
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If anyone suggests helmets are needed for 5mph falls then we are talking walking helmets next.

Falling off a bike at 5mph is clearly very different to falling over walking at 5mph.


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 3:46 pm
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I'm just impressed you've managed to beat yourself up so badly crashing at 5mph. Can't visualise it for the life of me.


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 4:23 pm
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Falling off a bike at 5mph is clearly very different to falling over walking at 5mph

How?


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 4:36 pm
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Rockplough I take that path nearly every time I go on the road. How the hell I fell off? No idea.

struck by meteor on head!


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 4:39 pm
 Drac
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Any rotational forces injuries?


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 4:40 pm
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bencooper - Member
Falling off a bike at 5mph is clearly very different to falling over walking at 5mph
How?

Must be a different type of mph


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 4:43 pm
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I used to be slept all about wearing a helmet on a road bike until I had a comedy fall.

Lost my balance at a virtual standstill, clipped in and keeled over.

Helmet took quite a thud, operator error, but it does happen ( well to me anyway).


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 4:45 pm
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What I find interesting - and I offer this as anecdotal evidence only - is that I've fallen off bikes quite a bit. But I've never hit my head. Maybe I have usually strong neck muscles.


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 4:47 pm
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Most of the pro-helmet "research" is utter dross. If they were such an important safety device, it would be easy to show it conclusively. In the real world, populations that wear helmets don't generally suffer significantly fewer head injuries. IIRC the most cited paper claiming to do so, has been disowned by its authors.


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 4:57 pm
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Any rotational forces injuries?

no it was that bloody slow. The cut to my hand from the damn road bike biting me was 30mm long and needed gluing. Really quite deep. I had fingerless gloves on they took the gravel rash away but somehow on the joint of my little finger and palm I managed a 30mm deep wound ^^

Bloody tarmac and gravel


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 5:03 pm
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If it was me I'd be more worried about having an un-explained crash than whether the helmet worked or not. Road bike inherently unstable at near walking speed?

Just asking as my road bikes are tourers and I can't conceive of losing control at low speed on them. I'm speculating that 700x37 tyres are more forgiving of road surface faults as well as touring geometry being more stable.


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 6:28 pm
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If it was me I'd be more worried about having an un-explained crash than whether the helmet worked or not. Road bike inherently unstable at near walking speed?

Just asking as my road bikes are tourers and I can't conceive of losing control at low speed on them. I'm speculating that 700x37 tyres are more forgiving of road surface faults as well as touring geometry being more stable.


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 6:29 pm
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Fell of bike at a low speed last year. Likely wouldn't have died. Seems pretty likely I would have gone to hospital for concussion and/or stitches. Helmet stopped that but I still had a headache.

Just asking as my road bikes are tourers and I can't conceive of losing control at low speed on them. I'm speculating that 700x37 tyres are more forgiving of road surface faults as well as touring geometry being more stable.

My fall was low speed. Car was coming to pass me on a narrow road, I got too close to the edge of the road, rear wheel came off the road as I was pulling in behind the car. Down I went. Nothing to do with tyres or geometry. But that was just my crash.


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 7:02 pm
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bencooper
Falling off a bike at 5mph is clearly very different to falling over walking at 5mph
How?

Think about it. What, generally speaking have you free when you are walking or running, but have occupied and often "death gripped" to the bars as you go OTB?? Yup, your hands.

If you like try the following experiment:

1) Get a good friend (or enemy) to tie your hands behind your back.
2) Walk along in front of said friend/enemy.
3) Without warning your friend/enemy will kick you hard in the back.

Watch in wonder as you use your face for a brake........... 😆


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 7:30 pm
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Last year I was riding my bike to the shops. Just popped out without a second thought. Bought some eggs, bacon, black pudding and beans if I recall. Popped into to see me local coffee house, grabbed a double espresso. Called in at the local artisan baker and picked up a sower dough loaf, seed covered.
Jumped back on my bike , headed back home. Wasn't wearing a helmet....
Got in, kettle on, fired up the frying pan. Cracking breakfast! Didn't have a crash, no cuts and bruises.
Conclusion, not wearing a helmet stops you crashing and makes you cook a great fry up. Doctors agreed.


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 7:37 pm
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Wearing my helmet. Turned into single track at 5 mph. Forgot to turn off fork lockout. Front wheel hit dogpoo, slid out to the left. I fell forward, my right arm hit the ground and then me on top, with my arm hitting my chest. Broke a rib.

Head OK though!

2 days before. Bashing round the rock gardens at the London Olympics tracks, fast as possible, not a scratch...


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 7:44 pm
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Broke a rib.

Tsk. Why weren't you wearing a suit of armour? How irresponsible 😉


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 7:47 pm
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2 weeks ago I was brought down in a bunch sprint at 55kmh. My arm and back were a mess - now just a bit scared and red. Scratched up my bike, ripped my jersey. Head was fine, not a scratch on my helmet. So remember, probably no point wearing one really.


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 8:06 pm
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Think about it. What, generally speaking have you free when you are walking or running, but have occupied and often "death gripped" to the bars as you go OTB?? Yup, your hands.

Must just be me then. Any bike crash I've had I've always realised when I was past the point of recovery, let go the bars, and either rolled or used my arms to break my fall. Never hit my head yet despite crashing at more than 5mph.


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 8:10 pm
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What, generally speaking have you free when you are walking or running, but have occupied and often "death gripped" to the bars as you go OTB?? Yup, your hands.

I don't death grip the bars, am I doing biking wrong?


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 9:46 pm
 Bez
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Most of the evidence from doctors suggests its a good idea to wear one and whether you agree or not its probably not a good idea to discourage others from doing so...

Two points to note about that:

Firstly, albeit admittedly without knowing precisely what you're referring to, a significant proportion of "evidence" that comes from doctors is not evidence but opinion. Which isn't to say it's necessarily wrong, but it does mean it's not necessarily right and it does mean it's not evidence. And, yes, the difference is important.

Secondly, doctors get to see a subset of the cycling population: namely, those who have been injured and have been admitted for treatment. They don't get to see the ones who have been injured but not admitted, they don't get to see the ones who have been in an incident but haven't been injured, and they don't get to see the ones who haven't been in an incident. That's a *lot* of data they're missing out on. And if you look at all of that data, you see two things that doctors don't: firstly that there's a slightly higher chance of an incident for the helmet-wearing population (due to factors such as first- and third-party risk compensation), and secondly that this seems to be at least as significant as any benefit afforded by helmets, meaning that there's no net benefit to the population.

This becomes highlighted when you see the results of helmet compulsion, where participation rates go down but injury frequency stays broadly constant, meaning that injury rate (including head injuries) goes up. Theories for this include the highly plausible notion that compulsion is off-putting to people who would normally not choose to wear a helmet (the obvious bit) and that these people tend to cycle in a way that is inherently more safe (the less obvious bit). Essentially it aligns with the idea of a certain environment (where people are required to share with motor traffic) nurturing a certain type of rider: largely men who can and do ride fast and accelerate quickly in order to mingle tolerably with motor vehicles.

I don't think anyone here is discouraging the use of a helmet (though I know of at least one person who does*) and I'm also not arguing that helmets provide no trauma protection, because I believe they do (to a point). But it's absolutely fair to point out that wearing one isn't anything like the "common sense" protection that people think it is. And it's absolutely fair to dismiss an anecdote about the sort of freak accident that one might encounter in all sorts of scenarios: if you're going to cite an inexplicable tumble at less than 5mph as a reason to wear one but you don't wear one when you go out drinking, or travel in a car, or all sorts of other things, then your approach to anecdata—let alone real data—is perverse.

The best thing, really, is to make your own choice (perverse or otherwise) about whether you wear one and to let others do the same. Not just for reasons of personal freedom, but because most people are probably making the right choice for the way in which they cycle.

* And that's partly due to the above: tacitly putting up with helmets, when they're not shown to have any benefit across the population as a whole, has no net trauma benefit across the population but does diminish the cycling population (which has a health disbenefit) and steers naturally helmet-averse people towards the use of helmets, which may increase their risk for reasons of risk compensation.


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 11:16 pm
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I'm not interested in enforcing helmet use but...

If I know I am going to be engaged in an activity already anyway... I could be wearing a device that [i]most likely[/i] would add protection and not add risk. The device is comfortable and doesn't impinge.

Why wouldn't I?


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 11:26 pm
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firstly that there's a slightly higher chance of an incident for the helmet-wearing population (due to factors such as first- and third-party risk compensation), and secondly that this seems to be at least as significant as any benefit afforded by helmets, meaning that there's no net benefit to the population.

To me that seems WILDLY unlikely, and that reeks of science being used to justify a desired outcome. I haven't read the science though, that's just suspicion.

Re 5mph - I maintain that cycling at 5mph is a) more likely to result in a tumble and b) the mode of falling is different, resulting in different injuries. I do stumble occasionally when walking, but I'm falling in the direction I'm going, and my trailing leg always comes forward to hold me up. On a bike, I tend to fall over sideways, and my other leg is on the other side of my bike where it can't help me.


 
Posted : 06/06/2016 11:33 pm
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i hope the thread title is wrong and this thread isn't going to be an every day thing

my guess is were riding too slowly - in fact your bike is probable capable of balancing itself without a rider if going fast enough ..... so it would be safer not to ride it


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 12:25 am
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I see very few not wearing a helmet these days. Of course there are the hardcore card carrying members of the CTC and flat earth society who don'tt. I'm certainly not in favour of compulsion. There's enough nanny state already. I will, as always, continue to wear gloves, helmet etc as experience has shown me they lessen my injuries.

I certainly agree with molegrips about speed, more so on MTB and falling. Never hurt my legs, knees or shins MTBing. Elbows, shoulders and head, oh yes. Others I know always fall and hit their knees or shins first. I think we all fall differently and speed had some part to play in your off.

As for turning to data and statistics they are a useful tool but need to be applied sensibly. I'm not sure that were drawing the right conclusions from the data which Bez points out isn't inclusive of all incidents. We live in an imperfect world. Doctors aren't experts at riding.


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 12:43 am
 kcr
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I'm not interested in enforcing helmet use but...

If I know I am going to be engaged in an activity already anyway... I could be wearing a device that most likely would add protection and not add risk. The device is comfortable and doesn't impinge.

Why wouldn't I?

[img] [/img]


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 1:18 am
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Makes me laugh when people post pics of wearing protection equipment in cars!

What do you think all those airbags are for??

They are precisely designed to stop hard points hitting your head (especially in a side impact) and most people who buy a modern car want (and get) airbags, so you already DO (in effect) wear your helmet in your car, it's just that it is integrated in the car rather than being put on your head..........


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 6:41 am
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So there are no more head injuries in cars?

By extension should people who drive cars manufactured before the mid nineties wear helmets?

My kids don't get airbags in the back, should they be wearing helmets?


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 6:59 am
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My kids don't get airbags in the back, should they be wearing helmets

Rear airbags. The first thing I checked was in all of my most recent cars or added as an extra.


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 9:15 am
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Not getting at you specifically (because we all do this) but

To me that seems WILDLY unlikely...I haven't read the science though

This is the problem. You've just taken a cogent and accurate argument and dismissed it from an admitted position of ignorance, just because you don't "feel" it's right.

When it comes to bike helmets (and lots of other issues) People react with emotion and anecdote, rather than facts and logic, and call it "common sense".


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 10:25 am
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Anyone who doesn't "believe in helmets" should go outside and bang their head against the ground repeatedly. If they're still able to, try it again with a helmet on and see which hurts the most.

I never used to bother on the road as I thought I was taking less risks than mtb but after being hit by seemingly blind drivers I'd say there's definitely more risk there. And the speeds are higher. Mud is softer than concrete as well.


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 11:51 am
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You've just taken a cogent and accurate argument and dismissed it from an admitted position of ignorance

I actually haven't. I've expressed scepticism - which is quite a different thing to dismissing something. And I don't know how accurate the argument is because I haven't assessed the science. Don't assume that because scientists say it it's accurate.

For example - across a population and across all cycling activities, it might be that people take more risks when they are wearing helmets. However, that doesn't necessarily apply to any particular individual, does it?

If it is possible to wear a helmet and still remain equally risk averse, then surely a helmet is an advantage? Bez's post is an argument against helmet compulsion, NOT an argument against individual helmet wearing.


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 12:00 pm
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Tom - I don't think anyone is questing that wearing something on your head makes things hurt less.

For me its the 'the helmet saved my life' - 'how lucky I was wearing a helmet, my head would have been in bits if not' statements.

These kinds of statements are not based on any more fact than those people saying helmets are a waste of time. Unfortunately we wear helmets because we think it will do us good, when there really isn't much evidence either way - which is very very surprising for something sold as a safety item.


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 12:01 pm
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I always wear a helmet to ride, but I wish I'd been wearing one on Sunday morning to counter my wife's most successful attempt yet on my life. I went into one of our floor to ceiling cupboard in the kitchen looking for something in the lower section. I was crouched down and heard something move on the 6 foot high upper shelf. A split second later I was smashed on the back of the head by the iron which had been put right at the front of the shelf. My guess is that the flex was hanging down and I may have moved a broom that pulled on it.

Thank god the kids were outside as I think I may have invented some new swear words as I was balled up on the kitchen floor.

I still have a very big and sore lump on the back of my head.

The iron is now stored at ground level.


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 12:07 pm
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Oh dear Pawsey, stopping with your head is never a good idea, glad you are OK, need to arrange trip down to see you for a ride whilst we have the weather (avoiding speed bumps obviously)


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 12:11 pm
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I still have a very big and sore lump on the back of my head.

But you didn't die. Its amazing how tough heads can be, yet marketing and the modern world suggest they are very fragile.


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 12:12 pm
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I never used to bother on the road as I thought I was taking less risks than mtb but after being hit by seemingly blind drivers I'd say there's definitely more risk there.

I fall off my mtb way more than my road bike.


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 12:14 pm
 D0NK
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but I wish I'd been wearing one on Sunday morning to counter my wife's most successful attempt yet on my life.
well...
If I know I am going to be engaged in an activity already anyway... I could be wearing a device that most likely would add protection and not add risk. The device is comfortable and doesn't impinge.

Why wouldn't I?

why aren't you wearing a helmet for pottering about the house? You fool!
I'll let you off from wearing one in the shower as it would affect your hairwashing regime but otherwise you really should be wearing a helmet from getting out of bed to going back to bed - it's common sense!


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 12:53 pm
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I'll let you off from wearing one in the shower as it would affect your hairwashing regime but otherwise you really should be wearing a helmet from getting out of bed to going back to bed - it's common sense!

Surely people still dont stand to shower!!?? Have you not heard how many people slip in the shower, yes you can install anti-slip dots and mats but why not just sit and remove the risk entirely.

[s]The device[/s] it is comfortable and doesn't impinge.

Why wouldn't I?


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 1:02 pm
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Anyone who doesn't "believe in helmets" should go outside and bang their head against the ground repeatedly. If they're still able to, try it again with a helmet on and see which hurts the most.

My problem with this is that you could replace 'helmet' with, say 'oven gloves', and suggest trying to take something out of the oven and see which hurts the most. Nobody's* going to disagree that helmets/oven gloves are a good choice in those scenarios.

But you probably wouldn't then go on to suggest that this shows anyone who doesn't wear oven gloves all the time is an idiot.

Doing exactly that for helmets only makes any sense if you assume that banging your head on the ground while cycling is very likely to happen. Or far more likely than any number of other scenarios where you [i]could[/i] get hurt and there's some sort of PPE that would help if you were wearing it at the time. And I don't think the facts bear that assumption out.

*Some people probably do though

EDIT
Actually Bez said basically this but better:

I don't think anyone here is discouraging the use of a helmet (though I know of at least one person who does*) and I'm also not arguing that helmets provide no trauma protection, because I believe they do (to a point). But it's absolutely fair to point out that wearing one isn't anything like the "common sense" protection that people think it is. And it's absolutely fair to dismiss an anecdote about the sort of freak accident that one might encounter in all sorts of scenarios: if you're going to cite an inexplicable tumble at less than 5mph as a reason to wear one but you don't wear one when you go out drinking, or travel in a car, or all sorts of other things, then your approach to anecdata—let alone real data—is perverse.


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 1:13 pm
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Makes me laugh when people post pics of wearing protection equipment in cars!

What do you think all those airbags are for??

They don't prevent all head injuries.

Head injuries to car occupants in crashes on Australian roads are a major cause of death and
permanent brain damage.


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 3:21 pm
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skellnonch

Ha ha, help I'm being stalked! Yeah come on down. Had a great weekend with some friends from London. Dry trails, endless single track

It was a particular large speed bump on the lakeside pedestrian path ..........


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 3:40 pm
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Doing exactly that for helmets only makes any sense if you assume that banging your head on the ground while cycling is very likely to happen. Or far more likely than any number of other scenarios where you could get hurt and there's some sort of PPE that would help if you were wearing it at the time. And I don't think the facts bear that assumption out.

I've hit my head falling off a bike more times than I have when doing normal day to day things so based on my own experiences it's a lot more likely. Though tbh some of them have actually been when I wasn't wearing a helmet and I didn't die but I would have been a lot comfier (and possibly concussion-free) if I'd have been wearing a helmet.

I'd never ride on the road without a helmet any more, had too many near misses at speed with clueless drivers.


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 5:19 pm
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Yet again! Another helmet thread with no real thorough research! People once again letting their arguments get way ahead of the data. Otherwise we wouldn't have had this gem...

I'll let you off from wearing one in the shower as it would affect your hairwashing regime

A simple, cursory read of my posts on here - aka background research, would have revealed the fact that I have admitted many times to being bald, hair free, bare pated, unemcumbered by cranial fur.

You sir, are a rank amateur! How dare you suggest that I shower sans helmet! I know we may differ in our approach to cycling without a helmet, but do you really wish me to die and die ignominiously in my shower of a totally preventable head injury. You are a barbarian and are definitely no gentleman!


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 5:19 pm
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First image is a g-force trace taken with a helmet

[img] [/img]

The second is without a helmet, half way up is where permanent brain damage occurs. Nearer the top is when you become Michael Schumacher.

[img] [/img]

I'll carry on wearing the helmet.


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 10:10 pm
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Doing exactly that for helmets only makes any sense if you assume that banging your head on the ground while cycling is very likely to happen. Or far more likely than any number of other scenarios where you could get hurt and there's some sort of PPE that would help if you were wearing it at the time. And I don't think the facts bear that assumption out.

I've never, even as a todler, banged my head whilst walking. I've done it numerous times cycling at 5mph.


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 10:16 pm
 irc
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Nearer the top is when you become Michael Schumacher.

His helmet worked well.


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 10:23 pm
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I've never, even as a todler, banged my head whilst walking I've done it numerous times cycling at 5mph.

You're a bit accident prone then. A helmet may be a good idea for you. Doesn't mean everyday cycling is dangerous enough for anyone else to need a helmet. I've been cycling since the 1960s without a helmet. A few falls but no head injuries.


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 10:27 pm
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His injury IIRC was exacerbated by the increased force applied through rotational injury caused by his helmet-mounted camera...?


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 10:27 pm
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I've been cycling since the 1960s without a helmet. A few falls but no head injuries.

Does that mean people don't get head injuries cycling? 🙄

But you probably wouldn't then go on to suggest that this shows anyone who doesn't wear oven gloves all the time is an idiot.

Hmm yes but hot things don't suddenly appear and need carrying without any warning.

When cycling, cars come by you all the time, except some of them very occasionally knock you off.


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 10:40 pm
 Bez
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Makes me laugh when people post pics of wearing protection equipment in cars! What do you think all those airbags are for?? They are precisely designed to stop hard points hitting your head (especially in a side impact) and most people who buy a modern car want (and get) airbags, so you already DO (in effect) wear your helmet in your car, it's just that it is integrated in the car rather than being put on your head..........

Approximately 50% of all traumatic brain injury occurs inside motor vehicles; data from the US and the UK both show this. Data from Germany show that the rate of head injury in seriously injured casualties is around 86% for pedestrians, cyclists and car occupants. For sure some cars are more protective than others but I wouldn't assume that once a collision is underway your head is necessarily safer in a car than it is at any other time.


 
Posted : 07/06/2016 10:58 pm
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I reckon I was travelling 20-25mph when I stopped dead with a head/rock interface yesterday. The helmet doesn't cover the part of my head that was struck, but (and I can't state this 100%) I'd be guessing the helmet took some of the force away. I'll be getting a bigger helmet!


 
Posted : 08/06/2016 8:03 am
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This is where I hit - opposite side to break in jaw

[img] [/img]


 
Posted : 08/06/2016 8:23 am
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Hmm yes but hot things don't suddenly appear and need carrying without any warning.

When cycling, cars come by you all the time, except some of them very occasionally knock you off.

Well, that's sort of my point. I could say, when driving, cars come by you all the time, except some of them occasionally hit your car (causing head injuries- see Bez's posts).

I'm not arguing that you'll never bang your head cycling and that a helmet will never do you any good. I'm saying that it's not clear that it needs to be treated as some sort of special case. As far as I'm aware the [i]perception[/i] that it's super dangerous being on a bike at any time without a helmet just isn't borne out by the stats.

And it should be obvious that I'm not talking about 'enthusiastic' mountain biking here.


 
Posted : 08/06/2016 8:49 am
 D0NK
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You sir, are a rank amateur! How dare you suggest that I shower sans helmet! I know we may differ in our approach to cycling without a helmet, but do you really wish me to die and die ignominiously in my shower of a totally preventable head injury. You are a barbarian and are definitely no gentleman!
😆
I do <mostly> wear a helmet while cycling BTW
what we [i]possibly[/i] disagree on is public attitudes towards helmets
😉


 
Posted : 08/06/2016 9:11 am
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Well there are risks when driving, of course - and I take steps to mitigate that by having airbags. Likewise, when cycling I take steps by wearing a helmet. Never thought this was unreasonable.. 🙂

Data from Germany show that the rate of head injury in seriously injured casualties is around 86% for pedestrians, cyclists and car occupants. For sure some cars are more protective than others but I wouldn't assume that once a collision is underway your head is necessarily safer in a car than it is at any other time

Ok but how does number and placement of airbags affect injury rate? Are the people with head injuries all driving older cars without airbags?

Also, in cars people tend to be doing 50-odd mph, whereas they aren't whilst walking or cycling. However we do have a set of road users who are doing similar speeds without any airbags or external protection, called motorcyclists, and their injury statistics would suggest that your head probably is safer in a car along with the rest of you.


 
Posted : 08/06/2016 9:13 am
 D0NK
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I've never, even as a todler, banged my head whilst walking. I've done it numerous times cycling at 5mph.
I've hit my head falling off a bike more times than I have when doing normal day to day things so based on my own experiences it's a lot more likely.
I've received quite a few head injuries, 4 lots of stitches, staples, concussion and amnesia, while doing various stuff, none while cycling, most of them were everyday things and none of them were traditional helmetwear activities.

my anecdata evidence > you anecdata
😉

I did bump my head once as a kid riding my bike, nothing serious, but I do also tend to be more fastidious getting the kids to wear helmets.


 
Posted : 08/06/2016 9:15 am
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A couple of years ago, waiting on a bus in Fort William, I watched a morbidly obese woman literally screaming at her toddler that she couldn't ride her bike if she didn't put her (badly adjusted and poorly fitting) helmet back on. I remember musing on what lessons that kid was subconsciously taking away from this regarding eating, exercise and risk assessment.


 
Posted : 08/06/2016 10:28 am
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Being the height of most doorways means that i must walk with great care. I've been knocked out a couple of times by cracking my bonce on stairwells that i've taken with a touch too much enthusiasm. I typically bang my head more times in an average month just walking about than i have in a lifetime of riding bikes (80% of which was without a lid). I do wear a lid on the bike now (mostly) as i ride a bit faster than i walk.

This was, and shall remain, a cool story.


 
Posted : 08/06/2016 11:10 am

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