[Closed] Titanium - worth it?

If you want.

Geometry has a bigger impact than material..etc..etc...etc

Titanium can of worms has just been opened...

Don't you think those those posts are telling you something?

[quote=Nipper99 ] seem to see lots posts on cracked frames etc. There does seem to be a focus on cracked titanium whereas folks seem to accept cracked steel, ali and carbon as "part of the deal". Overall, I reckon the numbers are actually quite low - unless, of course, you are considering anything made by Lynskey.

Ti is as good/bad/indifferent as any other frame material, they all have their strengths & weaknesses.

I have a ti road bike & a ti MTB, very fond of them both. Would I buy another it bike? Yeah, maybe but probably because a raw ti finish looks the nuts!

Love my Ti MTB, but if it broke I would probably not buy another at the price they are now

It never ceases to amaze me how many cracked Ti frames there are around. I just bought a Ti frame only to find that when it arrived it had a bodged repair and small crack, the cost of repairing Ti meant it was a no brainer that it went back.

After looking at weights it turned out that a decent 853 frame wasn't much heavier so went for steel instead as a replacement. Ti looks lovely and is lighter, not sure the benefits are worth the massive outlay over a nice light steel frame anymore though.

In my experience, yes.
My DBR Axis TT is going on 18 years & still ridden as fast as possible. Muck around on it & I'll get thrown.

It'll be a bike for life

[img] [/img]

I love my Hummer, it definitely has a better feel for me on the trail than my evil sov.

Not comparing like with like though, a ti and steel hummer prob wouldn't feel much different.

[i]Overall, I reckon the numbers are actually quite low - unless, of course, you are considering anything made by Lynskey. [/i]

True, only 5 years on my 456Ti so far...

My next bike will be a 29" Ti HT, but I want one with the same characteristics as my 26" 456Ti - light, strong, comfy, slack, plenty of mud room. Also want a tapered headtube (based on the difficulty now of finding a cheapish/quality 140mm fork) and 142 screw-thru rear axle.

And tbh if you are comparing prices of Ti HT against steel/alu HT's, then yes they are expensive - but compare them against run-of-the-mill alu FS's (that most folk buy) and they aren't. But then you also need to factor in pivots/bushings/bearings and shock services.

Trouble is, the Ti they make bikes from isn't great quality Ti (It's marketed as such, but Ti has moved on massively from plain AL/V mixes) and it's a pain in the wotsits to weld nicely and properly.

A good one with a good design is a thing of beauty, but there are too many overpriced 'average' frames.

[url= http://fireflybicycles.tumblr.com/ ]Firefly[/url] and [url= http://www.vertigocycles.com/ ]vertigo[/url]

Would have either in a heartbeat (interestingly firefly steel frames are the same price as their ti ones)

A good one with a good design is a thing of beauty, but there are too many overpriced 'average' frames.

No different to steel then.

If you want one , have it.
Just would not get to caught up in the its a frame for life etc etc

I have a ti mtb orange ht and its ok but nothing stunning
Also have a ti road bike merlin and that's the best thing I've ever ridden

I would have another ti frame but also thinkin of a nice steel road bike for Sundays and sportife type use

How much are the lynskey ht frames?

Jesus 1500 quid
www.hotlines-uk.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=86269

Now this is a bargain much better than steel. No paint to chip & no rust.
Lynskey 29er Ridline vf frame in large
3 Months old & used for light use only so it is in good condition.
£800.
44mm Headtube so can run std & tapered forks.
Any questions etc please contact me email in profile.
Thanks. 😀

I've cracked four titanium road frames and had them all replaced under warranty by Van Nicholas. I can’t complain about their customer service because it has been exemplary.

Would I buy another titanium frame? No, my Scott CR1 carbon framed bike is better in almost every respect I can think of.

If you think that you are going to pay a premium for a frame for life then think again.

It Depends. My Ragley Ti's totally worth it, because it does something the other versions doesn't do, while keeping the best bits. I could have gone for a lighter steel one or a less horribly stiff alu one if they existed. My Soda, not so much, it's just a lighter bendier Soul- nice, but if I'd paid a grand for it I'd be unhappy (at 10% of that, I am happy)

It's not a magic material, any more than carbon (or steel, or alu), every frame's different. People seem to buy into it a lot, even more than they do with 853 or carbon or whatever, so, er, approach user reviews with caution I reckon.

I have a Litespeed Ti hard tail and currently building up a Litespeed road frame. Love Ti to bits. My last Ti hard tail frame was a 1998 Kona, which I just sold on Retrobike Forum for £600 to a guy in the Far East. With new decals it looked as good as the day I bought it. I've read all the titanium horror stories on here and I suggest they account for only a small percentage of the frames in current use.

I e had three ti bikes. The two Lynskey built ones were trouble free. The other one cracked. All were nice. I replaced the road bike with a carbon one (stiffer and lighter but not as pretty), and the MTB with a steel one. I'd probably have ti again, and the Pegasus in the classifieds is tempting me, but as others have said, it's pretty, light and rides well, but not really better than other well-applied materials.

Nipper99, if you've an idea on what angles you'd like or would like something a bit different to off-the-shelf, have a look at [url= http://tritonbikes.com/faq/ ]Triton[/url]. Less than 1k for a custom frame (unless you chose lots of options), they have a loyal following and make some very nice stuff!

Yes, love my new kinesis maxlight sync Ti, so much fun to ride.

I love my sheep with a passion that is almost illegal

[img] [/img]

good Ti from a brilliant frame builder yes. Cheap Ti from mass produced mob with a history of frame fails or poor customer backup like litespeed/lynskey probably not for me.

I'd rather have a bespoke one-of-a-kind British built steel frame than a standard mass-produced ti frame - much more special and interesting for the money.

Jamie - Member

Titanium can of worms has just been opened...

not to mention 29er obsolescence

a standard mass produce Ti frame today
[img] [/img]

I have a bespoke Ti road frame from Justin Burls. Only thing so far road wise I haven't broken. I think its the best frame I've ridden but it does look dull as ditch water.

Would I have a 29er HT Ti frame......yes, tomorrow, but I would have it custom made to suit me.

My Ti hard tail cracked. Then it was repaired and refinished by the manufacturer (Lynskey) at no cost to me and with no quibble or question, it took a little while but not an unreasonable time considering it had to go back to the U.S. to be done and now it looks like a brand new one. OK you could argue that it shouldn't have broken but I have absolutely no complaints with the way it was dealt with when it did and I feel the level of service I recieved worth a good part of the considerable original purchase price. Would I buy another when/if this one goes? Possibly not, I probably won't have that much cash again to spend on a bike anyway and I would maybe get a higher end steel frame instead. I've got a feeling I would always [i]want[/i] another Ti frame though.

Like most things it's only worth it [i]if[/i] you really want it and you can afford it.

I had a Kona Hei hei for 14 years, which I loved and bitterly regret selling

[url= http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3109/2574207242_7f45618003.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3109/2574207242_7f45618003.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimbosussexmtb/2574207242/ ]2008_0506_183833AA[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/jimbosussexmtb/ ]South Downs MTB Skills[/url], on Flickr

I eventually replaced it with a Cove Hummer, which I still have (and love!)

[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8245/8467475423_7e3cfd47b7.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8245/8467475423_7e3cfd47b7.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimbosussexmtb/8467475423/ ]Cove Hummer[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/jimbosussexmtb/ ]South Downs MTB Skills[/url], on Flickr

And I've just got a kinesis sync, which I think may have made the Hummer a bit redundant, but I'm not going to sell it as I don't want a repeat performance with the regret of the Hei hei!

[url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8245/8467475423_7e3cfd47b7.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8245/8467475423_7e3cfd47b7.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimbosussexmtb/8467475423/ ]Cove Hummer[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/jimbosussexmtb/ ]South Downs MTB Skills[/url], on Flickr

Liking my 456 ti with use sumo ti Seatpost and kingdom ti flat bars at 730 mm wide

Just noticed the picture didn't work, should have been this:

[url= http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2886/9358742289_e1ae075273.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2886/9358742289_e1ae075273.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/jimbosussexmtb/9358742289/ ]Kinesis Maxlight Sync on a signpost[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/jimbosussexmtb/ ]South Downs MTB Skills[/url], on Flickr

I have ridden most frame materials.

Ti is fantastic.

Is it worth the extra cash? Maybe - after geometry and everything else has been taken into consideration.

A good steel frame will still whip a bad ti frame everyday of the week, but a good ti frame is something a little special.

XACD will build you a Ti frame for about £500 delivered. I've a road one still on order so can't comment on quality yet. Fully custom but no warranty at that price.

I'm still happy with mine after more than 4 years. Its 'lifetime warranty' may mean diddly-squat but at my age I won't lose any sleep. 😀

I've ridden Ti frames exclusively for over 15 years without any problems, but I'm only 130lbs wet through. I wonder; are all the cracked frames ridden by heavyweights?

Well I'm 161lb and mine survived too!

I've ridden Ti frames exclusively for over 15 years without any problems, but I'm only 130lbs wet through. I wonder; are all the cracked frames ridden by heavyweights?

I'm still riding a 14 year old aluminium frame. I've ridden when heavy and when light.

Doubt they break due to fat users, more likely to be poor welding technique.

Hey, hummer, you're not a heavyweight. Anyway, what's all the Ti prejudice on this forum?

No I know I'm not, but I've got 30lbs more cake round my middle than you oldboy 😉

[img] [/img]

Here's mine, I had a lot of fun on a Ti456 for 4yrs then went for a bespoke 29er from Justin Burls. I just love it, fast and light and comfortable.

I thought long and hard about getting a Ti road frame, didnt in the end, got a Supersix Evo High Mod which feels a lot like Ti to me.

But for mtb, for me, always Ti. They're just right.

Is it worth it?

I've got 2 Ti bikes. They're nice but I'm not good enough to notice much difference over their steel counterparts.

The USP for me is not having to worry about paint finish or corrosion, but that's about it. Oh, and they can be very shiny, that's a plus. 🙂

Thanks for all the feedback. A Pegasus would have been ideal, being a fan of Singular bikes.

First addition Cotic Soda here - bike has been hammered for years now with no ill effects. The ride is just amazing - I use it for XC and light DH. Also still looks brand new despite having crashed more times than a ZX spectrum. Maybe I'm just lucky but will be buying Ti forever now - thats if I ever need to - bike for life and all that ;).

Perhaps avoid Lynskey though - they do seem to pop up with cracks quite regularly on here.

oldboy - Member

I've ridden Ti frames exclusively for over 15 years without any problems, but I'm only 130lbs wet through. I wonder; are all the cracked frames ridden by heavyweights?

No, I'm in my 60's and weigh 10 stone so my Soda should not have cracked. It was a second incarnation (pre Lynsky)and to say the least I was very disappointed. Got a Soul frame as a replacement as it was just over 2 years old but have since sold it.
Saying that I have also had steel and alloy frames crack on me. Now running a Whyte 29C so wondering how the plastic will hold up!

OTOH, I couldn't have afforded my Soda if some kind person hadn't cracked it 😀

hummerlicious

What is the Kinesis like?

I just read the review in WMB and with the right spec it sounds a cracking bike - is yours the 29er version?

Yeah it's the 29er medium size, I had the FF29 aluminium version before which I loved, but I was lucky enough to use the prototype Sync last year for the Twentyfour12. I fell in love with it and basically had the FF29 till the production ones turned up.

It's a slightly different beast to the FF29, it's slacker, shorter out the back and a lot more comfortable to ride. I've just done 12 hour mixed pairs on it at the Bonty this weekend and I reckon I know it pretty well now.

The only trouble is I also have a Cove Hummer and I can't really see that I'll ride that much now, the Sync really is perfect for me. It handles all the tight twisty stuff fine and doesn't seem to mind being thrown down stuff like a loony, which is just as well because it wants you to ride it like that!

Isn't carbon more appealing from an engineering POV anyway?

The only thing that would make me get a ti frame over steel is looks. That bare ti grey/silver is a thing of beauty. If I ever find a Ti Charge Blender for cheap I'm having it.

On a Ti456 bought from here (Lynskey 1st version, so obviously I'll die or worse) - have to say it's doing everything I hoped for, light fast and not noticeably less comfy than my old Superlight (only roots round here though, no rocks). I'd been riding my skinny Duster and thought something lighter and as comfy might be all the bike I need, and so far it looks like I'm right.

hummerlicious

Do you reckon that the Kinesis would be a good 29er comparison to my current 456Ti (Lynskey 2nd edition)? It's just now with other buddies getting 29er's and seeing how much less effort they're putting in to cover the same ground as me I'm erring now towards one.

After looking at weights it turned out that a decent 853 frame wasn't much heavier so went for steel instead as a replacement.

This is what I don't get: it's barely lighter than steel, and costs a lot more to buy and repair if/ when it cracks. Sure, steel can rust but that's what paint's for.

Ti frames are like anything else, can be great, can be a waste of £.. I've ridden some sublime ti frames as well as some awful ones. Builder / brand rep and back up counts for a lot, ie warranty peace of mind and being sure they've done something useful with the material so it actually offers more than just a few 100g saving over a good steel frame.

Just get a good one, then you'll know. Have had four, still got two. This over almost twenty years. I have only ever cracked steel and ally frames, mind you I ride like an old school wimp.

I got 2 Ti bikes now and love them - similar ride to HQ Steel but without the paint/rust issues 🙂

My new Kinesis SYNC

[url= http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3763/9354750115_fbc197d0e2_n.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3763/9354750115_fbc197d0e2_n.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeystuff/9354750115/ ]Time to Head Home[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/bikeystuff/ ]FoxyRider[/url], on Flickr

and my GF Ti Prototype:

[url= http://www.kinesisbikes.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/bikes-gfti-prototype.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.kinesisbikes.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/bikes-gfti-prototype.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.kinesisbikes.co.uk/products/ ]GF Ti Prototype[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/bikeystuff/ ]FoxyRider[/url], on Kinesis UK

Did JOGLE on the GF Ti last year and was perfect 🙂

I got 2 Ti bikes now and love them - similar ride to HQ Steel but without the paint/rust issues

In my experience, steel bikes need repainting after about 15 years. I can live with that.

In my experience, steel bikes need repainting after about 15 years. I can live with that.

That's fine - I like Ti but it's not for everyone - what ever works for you mate 🙂

In my experience, steel bikes need repainting after about 15 years. I can live with that.

That's fine - I like Ti but it's not for everyone - what ever works for you mate

I don't dislike Ti, I just fail to see the point of it as a frame material.

foxyrider your road bike looks lush 🙂 exactly how I'd want mine to look if I had the cash!

@_Tom - thx mate - she's such a good all-rounder - I cycle to work on her, great winter bike and unless I'm going balls out fab for riding around Dartmoor hills with the Apex groupset 🙂

[img] [/img]

Yes, definitely worth it!

I started with a Ti road bike from Qoroz. I raced it for a couple of seasons and absolutely love it!

I then suggested a Ti cross bike was a good idea, so ended up with the prototype, made to my size, for testing and 'sharpening up' another great bike that has been trashed about Three Peaks Cyclocross and a couple of seasons of normal cross races. I use it as a mountain bike, on mountain bike terrain and routes.

Last year I was challenged into doing Mayhem 24 hrs solo and called Qoroz: HELP! I have entered this race and I don't have a MTB... So I was loaned their Ti 29er HT demo model.

Two weeks after handing it back after the race I was suffering with such extreme withdrawal symptoms, I bought and built my own. It is an absolutely awesome bike! Fast, comfortable, strong... I have never had to worry about anything on that bike and I absolutely love it. For as much as I love my road and cross bikes, the 29er tops them all. Best bike ever!

In my view Ti is the ideal material for off road bikes because of its strength and weight.

Above all, they look damn sexy in brushed bare Ti 😀

@b r - yes I reckon the two would go well together, as I said earlier I have a Cove Hummer so a similar kind of thing to your 456Ti, just beware or you may end up with the same dilemma as me and you might end up ignoring your original bike.....

I sold my 26er HT and then waited a few weeks for the SYNC so I couldn't neglect it LOL 😉

I've exclusively ridden my Kona Hei Hei since 1997 and couldn't think what to replace it with. I give it a Scothbrite and new decals annually and it looks good as new.
I don't have the engineering background or riding skill to definitively say one material is better than the other but it's made me proud to ride it for 16 years so it's got to represent value for money (better value than buying a whole new bike because the wheels are a tiny bit bigger - IGMC).

Not for me. Had serious BAS for a Ti frame for 15 years.

Finally succumbed and bought a Soda (hey the Soul is just good the Soda must be even better, right?)

Well, wrong. Turns out I prefer the way steel rides. Hey ho. At least I managed to sell it on easily enough and not lose too* much.

*this is of course subjective...

Hey Gunz, check out what vintage Kona Hei Hei Ti frames are going for on Retrobike Forum - about £600 at the last check. I don't think 15 year old carbon/steel/alu frames are going to retain that sort of value!

Oldboy - that's quite pleasing but to be honest if I had a quid for how many posts I've seen here and there from people who regret selling their Hei Hei, I'd have more than £600.
It's being lined up for my Son when my knees give out 🙂

Gunz, I wasn't suggesting you sell it, just trying to make a point about the longevity of Ti. I only sold mine because I wanted discs and the Litespeed Ti hardtail I have now is awesome. BWTF do I know!

I love the Brodie holeshot I brought off here, I couldn't have justified a new frame but when one came up Sh I thought what the hell 😀
Stiff but soft if that makes sense

I'd go with stiff but soft too 😉

My soda recently cracked.

I appreacite plenty are still going strong but I've fallen out of love with ti for bikes.

I've had a Ragley Ti for about two and half years and it's been ridden a lot in the UK and abroad, I'm around 11.5-stone. I absolutely love the bike, it's the best frame I've ever ridden and always puts a smile on my face. It's been used in the UK, the Pyrenees, Morocco, raced in a 24-hour solo etc.

I'd always have said that it was a brilliant balance of lightness, suppleness and toughness with brilliant geometry. Then, after two years, the top-tube cracked just behind the headtube. No problem I thought, Lynskey's lifetime warranty will mean it's returned to original condition. I had a lot of faith in Lynskey's excellent reputation for customer service, I've even stood up for them on here.

I spoke to Hotlines, the importer and they told me that the frame would be returned in original spec. It went off to the US and came back five weeks later with an undersized, curved downtube. The original was bi-ovalised so it braced the headtube at the top and the bottom bracket, the new one is also mildly bi-ovalised, but considerably smaller section and barely larger than the one on my Lynskey-made road bike.

The seat-tube had also been sleeved down to 27.2mm - actually very slightly larger than 27.2mm - which effectively rendered useless a £180 Lynskey Ti seatpost, a Thomson and a £250 Reverb.

The frame I now own, which originally cost me £1200 looks awful and it is visibly less substantial around the bottom bracket and the headtube - same size more or less as my Lynskey-made Planet X road bike, much smaller than the original. If it had been built like this in the first place, I'd never have bought it.

Hotlines, to be fair, are somewhat stuck in the middle of this as the warranty is with Lynskey. Lynskey's attitude, apparently, is that they've done what they're required to under the terms of their warranty.

I've actually [b]offered to pay my own money [/b]towards either having the frame reinstated to its original spec or at least have a proper over-sized downtube fitted and possibly an oversized headtube. Lynskey's take is that the original design was 'flawed' and they won't fit a straight downtube for that reason, yet at the same time, in their loft section, they were clearing out what was visibly obviously a Ragley Ti frame with a straight down-tube complete with a full lifetime warranty. Go figure.

The last communication I had with Hotlines said that Lynskey would contact me direct which they have never done despite several e-mails. The only thing they will do is exchange my 31.6mm Lynskey post for a 27.2mm one, which still leaves me with a useless Reverb and a surplus Thomson. To be fair, they offered to resized the insert to 31.6mm, but then also told me this would weaken the frame in that area. Nice dilemma.

Essentially I now have a £1200 frame which is not what I paid for, looks like a dog's dinner and, I don't believe, will ride in the same way. I look at the repaired frame and want to cry.

The irony is that if Lynskey had simply fitted an oversized downtube to the standard spec and left the seat-tube alone, I'd have been ecstatic, I would have said that Lynskey's customer service was excellent and would probably have bought a Lynskey cross bike to go with my road bike and the Ragley.

Can't say that now. Lynskey won't talk to me. Hotline can't do anything apparently. Even though I've offered to pay money to have the frame sorted out, nothing. Based on that, I can't say that I'd ever buy a Lynskey product or Lynskey-made frame from another brand again.

Rides brilliant, breaks after two years, comes back in a different spec. Go figure. I'm kind of disillusioned and anyone who has a Ragley Ti might want to take note and, if they have to use the warranty, check what they're actually going to have returned to them. And good luck actually getting Lynskey to talk to you.

Still love mine, i did break the fork though 🙁

[img] [/img]

Still looks like new after 4 years.

I'm still trying to suss out Ti. I'm currently hitting Glentress Black each week for 'a laugh'. It's a test for any bike, let alone a hard tail, and it's a fairly painful rider experience. But the ride quality is excellent. Considering the harshness of the trail, the only difficulty comes from having to stand through the numerous rough sections. Other than that its a lively yet smooth and planted ride. Well, as smooth as any hardtail ride could be on GT Black.

Would I go back to steel or carbon? I've had carbon frames begin to de-laminate, and steel has a weight that's expensive to mitigate, so Ti solves both of those issues. The raw frame looks great too. If I ever grow bored of owning a hard tail, I'd be open to any sort of frame material, but only if the design and ride was good, so in that respect, I haven't been converted to Ti. That said, it makes for a spectacular, brilliantly riding, compliant bike. The frame's actual design goes a long way to achieve that of course.

[img] [/img]

scotroutes - Member
Is it worth it?

I have two Ti frames I'm really happy with and they've both done thousands of miles. The wee hardtail was a cheapo from China and the tourer is a Van Nicholas, so neither represent the expensive end of the spectrum. When I was buying my El Mariachi I seriously considered the Ti version but it was £1,000 more than the steel version (i.e. 3x the cost). I just couldn't justify that sort of money. I'd consider an XACD frame though.....

Did you not also have a Lynskey-made, Ragley Ti frame? What happened to that? Assuming you're who I think you are?