[Closed] Tips on riding steep and loose please.

Edit. Total nob-end of an answer cos I didn't read more than the first few words and assumed.

Sorry...

Damn, I'm intrigued as to what you have edited out now!

Saddle? First relax. Then relax cause you weren't doing it enough.

You need to keep the wheels moving and if you want to turn your front wheel needs to be moving. So do all your braking before you get there.

With practice you will feel which wheel is in contact land move to keep at least the front in good contact and with traction. The back will mostly follow..

But back to point 1 relax!

Yep I see the edit reason!

I would agree, I do tend to tense up on these sections. Walking the section would probably help, not that you can really walk it.

Damn, I'm intrigued as to what you have edited out now!

🙂

I presumed you were asking about ascending...

Oh ok, I thought I may have insulted someone from Dartmoor with the first line.

Just to clarify, steep , loose descents!

Lots of people overreact to steepness and sit right on the back tyre, like they want to be on the cover of MBR. Almost never neccesary, certainly not at inners, but it destabilises the bike and robs you of front wheel grip. So if you're doing that, don't. The idea is to be kind of above the bike, not behind.

Other'n that... It's useful to know how much grip you have. At the bottom of Gold, frinstance, unless you're cranking it it's completely possible to stop, trackstand and restart (had to do this in an enduro race there once as a couple of people stacked right in front of me). Not that this is usually a good idea, but once you've done it once, I find it useful to know.

Northwind - Member
Lots of people overreact to steepness and sit right on the back tyre

Northwind, I'm not over the back of the bike and don't have the same issue with steep rocks. At the time there is no way you could trackstand as the surface under tyre was so loose, you kept sliding even if you locked both wheels.

The trick is to not lock both wheels 😉

If you could trackstand on the section I mentioned without locking both wheels I would be mightily impressed! 🙂

Oooh, I know which bit you mean. I had a bit of trouble on that section when I was there last.

Riding the Oz DH track at the Mega (dead steep, dead dusty) I found that I was tensing up too much and losing traction. I need to ride that sort of trail more so I can get used to sitting over the bike.

Bagstard - Member

If you could trackstand on the section I mentioned without locking both wheels I would be mightily impressed!

As I say, I [i]have [/i]done it. (in a winter race when the top of the hill was covered in snow, so not exactly good conditions either) There was probably a bit of locking involved since it wasn't planned, but not in the final act.

Without dragging this out too long northwind, from a static position in the conditions I am describing, gravity + loose surface would have you sliding down the hill, trackstand or not. I have ridden the setion several times before in different conditions and on a wet day I was able to come pretty much to a halt and refocus, but this time I just kept on sliding.

It's my local... I ride there all year round, and there's really no shortage of grip. (the wet summer's kept innerleithen mostly grippier this year than last year btw) Why even ask the question if you're just going to refuse to believe the advice?

From what you say "I just kept on sliding" maybe you just needed to start again and feel out the grip better? Yes of course once you're sliding you'll keep sliding, you have far less grip once locked up than you do when rolling.

There are a few banks near me that are 1:1. Just short sections but enough to get brave on the brakes. Practice rolling down them with no brakes so you get a feel of the speed and get into a good body position. Helps the mind see what is possible.

push your heels down
push your wrists down
steer with your body

I know it's your local and I don't think I'm really ignoring your advice. We are actually debating whether it's possible to stop on the section in question, under the conditions in question. Given that it is your loacal and you have raced there, is it not more likely you are riding the track properly, ie aiming for your exits and making them as opposed to floundering about like a dying salmon?!

Ok, what do you think you're problem is? Struggling to steer going down it? Struggling to slow down? You haven't really given much info on what is going wrong and therefore hard to help. Common issue is not enough weight over the front wheel on steeper stuff.

Nah, tbh it's a bit I'm consistently slow on tbh! Being good on the brakes for me is a sideproduct of not being good at not being on the brakes, I had to either get better at riding everything slow, or stop riding everything slow. I chose slow 🙁

GEDA, I'm ok on steep stuff on rocks or where you have a clear run out, it's the combined steepness and loose gravelly or slippy mud.
It makes me a bit panicky and all proper technique goes out of the window. Instead of looking for my exit i will be looking at a tree I need to avoid and anchor up, even though I know it reduces traction.

Gotama, my issue is being a bit tense and panicky, which makes me try to slow right down. Walking the section and knowing what was coming next would probably help me, but I'm not there very often. More time on steep stuff is needed I guess, although I'm more into fast and jumpy.

Not enough weight on the front wheel and not braking subtly enough? I notice that when I get scared I'll tighten up and push myself away from the bars when I should be dropping lower and keeping soft, hence too much reliance on the rear tyre to slow you down. Also, try to only brake in straight lines and when the camber is ok. Look through to where you're going, towards the vanishing point - never look at the thing you're avoiding!

I will try and get lower over the bars, i think the main thing is where I'm looking, it didn't help that people kept crashing in front of me and becoming obstacles.

I find that when its steep and i get scared all flexibility from my arms disappears and i rely on the front suspension. Because my arms are effectively locked the fork pogos and it all goes pear shaped...so similar to you. I guess it ties into the relax. Unfortunately, as it sounds like you've established, the only solution to avoid tensing up is to raise your comfort threshold which means riding more steep stuff.....whcih is hard where you are. I do find that talking to myself helps, not general chit chat but telling myself to look round teh corner, get off the brakes etc.

Edit ^^ same as the chief above.

Where do you ride in the South?

My local spots are Aston hill and Woburn sands, there are a few steep bits, but nothing major. Usually I do the talking to myself bit, but it went out of the window at the time.

Scout out any forgotten or less well known mini DH spots - random steep hillsides, old quarries, embankments, etc. There's always steep stuff to be found if you look hard enough. I don't get the time to travel to many of the bigger pointier bits of the UK so I'm making do with short but steep local trails, which usually entail pushing back up. I'm rubbish at steep switchbacks but much less rubbish than a year ago!

Ok, I think you know the answer to this yourself and you're seeking reassurance from someone that what you're saying is correct.

You are right in saying you need more time on it. How many times did you session that bit? Have you sessioned it at all or did you ride it last off, de-kit & head home pondering why it fazes you?

I would argue that walking it will serve absolutely no purpose whatsoever, except that you'll get a bit better at [i]walking[/i] this type of terrain.

You're issue is riding it confidently & the only way to do this is to ride it again & again & again. If you have a mate who is confident there ask him to watch you or even better video you so you can analyse your riding. If Northwind is local try to hook up with him & get some tips and the benefit of local knowledge.

Have a look on roots and rain at the downhill lads, in particular "Rob Young"
Look how low he is on the bike, and then get someone to film you on a steep section and then you will see how dynamic or not you are on the bike.
Rob is one of the fastest riders around when it comes to super steep rock tech sections.
Basically you need to learn to attack the section and make the bike do what you want it to do.

mildred, unfortunately it is 375 miles away from me, so I'm currently only there once or twice a year.My mates love that sort of thing, so I will make a point of riding it more when there next (probably october.) The way I left it last time was getting down sketchily, but ok and the guy behind me getting concussion. After that I decided to ride the faster tracks I enjoy, as it was my last few runs.

mildred, unfortunately it is 375 miles away from me, so I'm currently only there once or twice a year.My mates love that sort of thing, so I will make a point of riding it more when there next (probably october.) The way I left it last time was getting down sketchily, but ok and the guy behind me getting concussion. After that I decided to ride the faster tracks I enjoy, as it was my last few runs.

That's fair enough mate, but just be aware that focussing on your weaknesses reaps the biggest rewards. I'd bet you're already a decent rider on the fast open stuff, so imagine that feeling when you have the confidence on the sketchy stuff coupled with your ability elsewhere.

In other words, don't just keep repeating the stuff you enjoy and know you're ok at - why practice stuff you're already good at?

From the advice above, I will try to stay lower on the bike, look where I want to go and find places to practice.

Also (thanks Jedi!) if you don't already ride with your brake levers angled so there is a kink in your wrist, do so, it will stop you feeling like you're going to go over the bars, and [i]will [/i]stop you going over the bars. They want to be somewhere a bit below horizontal, but most people have them way too far down.

And stick a firm spring in her vans..! 😉

mildred, I know you are right and it gets under my skin, it's one of those MTFU situations, I need to face my fears. I'm really happy on the fast and rocky stuff, jumps, drops etc. If I improve on this it will vastly improve my enjoyment. The firmer spring in my fork may help too?!

I've already been to see jedi, but not specifically for steep stuff, so lever position not an issue. Mostly it is just i need to think what I'm doing, relax and MTFU!!!

and push your heels down, makes a difference to your fore-aft weight distribution and therefore your balance whilst maintaining control of the front end.

Elbows out knees bent
Heels droped a bit weight slightly rear
Drag the brakes a bit and roll through
Stay nice and lose and low let the bike move under you
Can't go wrong

d45yth - Member

Northwind - Member
Lots of people overreact to steepness and sit right on the back tyre

+1, I don't think folk realise that when they do this their arms are fully outstretched, making it impossible to steer!
If you imagine a vertical line going up from your BB, as long as you're behind this and you keep your feet heavy...it's quite hard to go over the bars.

See that's the problem. Sitting back. Weight on the front wheel = grip for steering!! So many folk sit back and have no front wheel control.

Fwiw, it's just weight forward and confidence, brake before corners. Let wheels roll round. (i'm also quite local to inners)