[Closed] Time Trails... what do I need to know?

They are grim, and boring.

You post some decent times once you get used to delivering the measured effort, then it comes down to waiting for better weather and/or getting entries accepted to ride the faster courses.

I've done it in the past, it's ok, but it's not as much fun as cyclocross racing.

Warmup. Pedal as hard as you can for distance. Make yourself sick and dizzy. Limp home and collapse. Repeat.

Oh I missed. Start yearning ever more expensive kit.

I've done about 10 and now have an aero helmet, skinsuit, clipons and 404s. Next step new frame, and a disk...

Pretty much what DT78 said. Can get quite addictive and expensive.

Is a time trail like a nature trail, but more focused on history? My kids would be into that sort of thing I'm sure...

You might as well measure your power in a lab and post it on the internet so you can compare yours to everyone else's. Cos that's all it is.

They're grim and very exciting. Pootle up and down a road for ten minutes to get warm, a man in his 70's then holds your fork and seattube before you fire yourself along the road as hard as you can for however far you're supposed to go, then you nearly vomit (not tried hard enough) or vomit (success) and either ride very shakily home or put the bike back in the car.

Repeat weekly and see yourself improve measurably for a while (about a year in my case) then hit a wall and start buying expensive kit.

There's a lot more than power to riding a good time trial.

Kit does make a difference, but it doesn't have to be that expensive. I gave it a pretty decent go last year on a pretty small budget. Not sure the motivation is there for another year though to invest a lot more time and cash to make the next step.

10 mile TT: 110% of threshold heart rate
25 mile TT: 100% of threshold heart rate
50 mile TT: 80-90% of threshold heart rate
100 mile TT: 70-80% of threshold heart rate

Aero toys make you go faster for the same heart rate but buy carefully:
Free: rotate saddle forwards and up slightly to get lower.
Add clip on bars to stay lower.
After position, a skinsuit is the most cost-effective investment. Get used to wearing one
A used aero helmet (Giro Advantage for £30) will buy more time but they are not very comfortable.
Unless you are running 3/5 spokes and a disk, see above for time savings. Go VERY deep or don't bother.

If you are not OCD about numbers, it's probably not for you, but Aerolab in golden cheetah is great on short circuits like Hillingdon (Weds evenings) 🙂

You might as well measure your power in a lab and post it on the internet so you can compare yours to everyone else's. Cos that's all it is.

Nonsense.

Already ordering a Bontrager Ballista 😀

Sounds like a Trainerroad session, yet outside. The efforts fine, this will be an extension of my training for MTB as a side passion to get the road bike in-use. I already have some TT Bars.

If you are not OCD about numbers

I'm quite safe there TiRed. As my wife has a dance class Tuesdays Wednesday TT's are very likely.

Galibier.cc do decent well priced skinsuits

get the road bike in-use.

How long I wonder till the Kryton "how much faster would I be on a proper TT bike" thread. You have been warned 🙂

You can use your road bike, play around with the setup and stick on aerobars etc and get a half decent position, but it's usually a big compromise and a massive faff changing from road to TT and back.

If you want to retrofit aero bars to your road bike, try slamming and inverting the stem, so the hoods are then almost too low to allow you to ride the bike. You will get a much better tuck than if you simply fit them.

Oh and for your first 10 do not follow the advice of just going out and thrashing yourself. I blew up in the first 2 miles hitting 39.8mph within the first couple of minutes. The next 20 minutes were horrendous.

It's about thirds. First third up to pace, next maintain, final third empty the tank.

Or get a power meter and stare at the screen (yet to do an official tt with my new PM)

My knees are only MM from my elbows as it is Molgrips!

Show us a pic.

Or get a power meter and stare at the screen (yet to do an official tt with my new PM)

Some of my worst races have been spent doing this chasing a power value. Now just glance at it every now and again.

They are grim, and boring.

[b]Wrong[/b]
They are the most painful form of meditation.
They will take you to your edge of reason ,where you will discover your true self.
You will feel everything about your body and surroundings,in tiny detail.
You will focus on plants and blades of grass at the side of the road,searching and hoping for any change in the wind.
The flag in the distance,those last hundred yards,hands locked out front,in prayer to the seconds.

Have fun and enjoy the cake. 😉

molgrips - Member
Show us a pic.

Its not set up.

They are the most painful form of meditation.
They will take you to your edge of reason ,where you will discover your true self.
You will feel everything about your body and surroundings,in tiny detail.
You will focus on plants and blades of grass at the side of the road,searching and hoping for any change in the wind.
The flag in the distance,those last hundred yards,hands locked out front,in prayer to the seconds

*like*

Start fast, speed up then try to go quicker at the end

It can be cheap: £450 bought me this Shorter and it has more history than a shop of Cervelos. It now has a (£50 used) carbon front end to raise the bars and rests for 100 mile comfort, but is otherwise original.

[img] ?oh=2e7a78a83398d854867995d1dbeb9778&oe=56E57633[/img]

TT bikes don't get a lot of use. Go retro and show your class 8)

for your first 10 do not follow the advice of just going out and thrashing yourself

It’s always a constant assessment of, ‘how hard am I trying, how far do I have to go, and is this sustainable?’ If the answer to the latter is ‘yes’ then you’re not going hard enough, if the answer is ‘no’ then it’s already too late, so the answer you’re looking for is ‘maybe’. Always maybe.

Fasthaggis, like that.

It's actually a pretty mentally demanding thing. That quote of Chris's is pretty spot on. Always juggling HR, candence, power, time, distance, evaluating the terrain, push harder, hold back, am I holding my aero position... lot going on inside the tiny bubble of an aero helmet. As Dr Hutch said about riding time trials, "I'm always doing maths."

I did my first time trial this year and despite the horrible, truly foul wet and windy weather I actually enjoyed it. I was disappointed in how fresh I felt at the end compared to the horror stories I'd heard.

Must. Go. Harder.

[url= https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5663/22753902837_7219a4b01f.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5663/22753902837_7219a4b01f.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/AEFGzB ]My first time trial[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/stilltortoise/ ]stilltortoise[/url], on Flickr

molgrips - Member
They are grim, and boring.

+1

Far better things to do on a Weds eve than be tailgated by trucks/cars/busses/milk floats on a mentally busy A road or Dual Carriageway .. at dusk or dark or broad daylight come to that.

Let us know how you get on will you.

Bikebouy, thankfully not done many races that fit that description, some do though.

Some love the things, some loath the things.. where do I stand? Hmmmm...

Still, I see the benefits for some who love em' 😐

They are the most painful form of [s]meditation[/s] cycling.
They will take you to your edge of reason ,where you will [s]discover your true self.[/s] wonder wtf you are doing
You will [s]feel everything about your body and surroundings,in tiny detail.
You will focus on plants and blades of grass at the side of the road,searching and hoping for any change in the wind[/s] be bored rigid.

😉 Of all the forms of competitve cycling I've done, TTing is the easiest to get into and hands down the least fun and rewarding.

I think though the science says you should accurately determine your threshold and stick to it, no? I was told this by a very good cyclist and experienced tester.

So then the best method would in fact be to stare at a power meter screen.

Ok I'll admit there is some interest in chasing someone down, but then when you cruise past them you realise they're much slower than you so it's not much of a victory anyway. What's properly exciting is being eyeball to eyeball with someone on the track. Now I can wax lyrical about that!

I think though the science says you should accurately determine your threshold and stick to it, no? I was told this by a very good cyclist and experienced tester.

Probably if you have a pan flat course, ideal conditions, and know accurately what your max power is for the anticipated duration. Not often the case.

So then the best method would in fact be to stare at a power meter screen.

Try it and see how you get on 🙂

I have done it quite a few times.

I was asking specifically about the local Cardiff course which is quite undulating, don't think there's any flat at all. The question was is it worth going into the red on the climbs and recovering on the descents, and he said no.

The question was is it worth going into the red on the climbs and recovering on the descents, and he said no.

I'd say it depends on a lot of factors, how steep, how much your speed is dropping, what's the descent like, where are you on the course, can you stay in aero position, etc. Also depends what you mean by going into the red, if you mean pushing a lot harder then usually not worth it as you won't recover and you'll lose time on the rest of the course, but a few watts harder can often get you a few seconds.

If you were an experienced tester giving advice to a new tester, you'd likely say no.

And your cyclist power profile. I'd gain much more but sitting just under Lactate threshold on a gradient and going into the red on a flat.

In fact I came 8th in a sportive once - I appreciate its not a race - by sitting up on the hills then powering - basically TTing - through a 35 mile flat section on the drops after I learned the course profile beforehand.

My local clubs TT is undulating which plays to my weakness quite well so I see this as an ideal mechanism to increase / test my power.

So then the best method would in fact be to stare at a power meter screen.

I struggle to maintain focus in a way that I never do in a road race - too much going on in the latter. I did a four-up 30 mile TTT this summer which was a lot more fun though.

Based on your road race thread Kryton, I think you might like it. Apart from the weather and a bit of traffic no doubt, everything is in your own control.

Yep, 5 minutes in you'll be in agony, wondering why you're doing it. But once you've crossed the line, its a great buzz. Its not reliant on you hanging on in the bunch, feeling strong but then getting outsprinted. Its all your own effort, minimal tactics, just pedal hard.

You can add aero kit but its the position that clip on bars will give you that will save you the most initially.

I still prefer road racing but TT feels more controllable.

I see this as an ideal mechanism to increase / test my power.

It might well be good training.. of course it might well not...

Its not reliant on you hanging on in the bunch, feeling strong but then getting outsprinted.

See - for me, that sprinting bit is the very essence of racing, the whole point. It's why I find TTing dull, and why I find being mid-pack in an XC race similarly dull.

It'd be like making the winner of a football match the team who has the most passes.

mtbtomo - Member
Based on your road race thread Kryton, I think you might like it. Apart from the weather and a bit of traffic no doubt, everything is in your own control.

We reached the same conclusions I can't afford to have my bike or me smashed up, but I want to compete. MTB racing & TT gives me that scenario much more in my control*.

See - for me, that sprinting bit is the very essence of racing, the whole point. It's why I find TTing dull, and why I find being mid-pack in an XC race similarly dull.

I'll still be XC racing for my kicks, but I won't sit mid-pack in boredom molgrips, you might want to re-think your strategy 😀

*having also discovered what a lot of people already know about me, I'm much more comfortable when I'm in control.

@molgrips....yeah, I'm not grumbling about road racing, I absolutely love it, but you're not in control of all the variables and could be fitter all round than other rides, yet the result goes the other way.

Did a club 10 a few years ago, got so bored that when my phone buzzed I actually answered and had a conversation 😳

Managed a short 22 (road bike)
Only 40 odd seconds off my PB....... I shouldn't have answered the phone.

I absolutely love it, but you're not in control of all the variables and could be fitter all round than other rides, yet the result goes the other way.

That's the point! You could just as easily be slower than the other riders and still win by being canny.. which is what appeals to me about road racing.

[quote=molgrips ]Of all the forms of competitve cycling I've done, TTing is the easiest to get into and hands down the least fun and rewarding.
...

Have you ever wondered whether it really is just you?

Is a time trail like a nature trail, but more focused on history? My kids would be into that sort of thing I'm sure...

😆 😆 😆

I want to ride on a time trail!!!

Trundling up and down anonymous dual carriageways is one aspect of time trialling, but there's a lot more to it than that:

[img] [/img]

[url= https://flic.kr/p/djepQT ]Nearing the Summit of Dukes Pass. Paul Friel, Glasgow Couriers.[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/23666168@N04/ ]Paris-Roubaix[/url], on Flickr

People tend to do the standard distances, because it gives you an easy benchmark to compare your performance against, but I would recommend seeking out the interesting sporting courses instead. Team TTs are also great fun, and getting a team round a course together as fast as possible is an interesting challenge.

Not much of a fan of TTing myself but have found the atmosphere at TTs a bit more enjoyable than at road races. Not that road races have a bad atmosphere, but there's a bit of tension that I've never had at TTs.

As I type I'm realising that's probably because I care less about TT results so the stakes are lower.

http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk

is a good resource when they are not arguing about the Stockton '100'

I've done a few over the past 4 years, mostly 10 and 25 mile, but I did my first 50 this year. I quite enjoy them and view them as another way of improving fitness. When I ride a 10, I often collapse on the grass verge after crossing the finish line, still clipped into my pedals
I have a nice road bike but I don't bother with tri-bars or aero kit. For a start, I can't maintain an aero position for more than 15 miles with my dodgy back! I'm just competing against myself, though it is a bit satisfying when you beat someone who's all aero-ed up, and you've had to stand up and stretch your back out several times 😛

Not much of a fan of TTing myself but have found the atmosphere at TTs a bit more enjoyable than at road races. Not that road races have a bad atmosphere, but there's a bit of tension that I've never had at TTs.

I think this is true. In a road race unless you get yourself into the pointy end or you are working for a team mate to get them into the pointy end it's an ultimately futile event. Get in the points or your might as well climb off. Most folks in a 3rd cat race trundle around in the middle of the peloton grimly trying to hold on and not get dropped before coming a very anonymous 48th(or unplaced or inaccurately placed as 60 riders go over the line together and there is no video on the line) having done nothing of note - what's the point? And when the other folk around you have the aim of stoping you getting into the points because they want to be there it does create a bit more of an edgy atmosphere. With a TT everyone has the option for success - all at the same time. There will be an old boy at the back who will go away content if he beats one legged jim, his arch nemesis for 50 years or knocks a few seconds off his time from last year and a newbie overjoyed because they got under the hour on a 25 for the first time even though they only came 35th. With that comes a more collegiate atmosphere - all of you against the course and conditions.

Some people will never get it as it's not in their mindset - it is quite an introverted experience. It's also one for people who can sustain pain and be quite analytical and 'out of body like' about their performance. It's not a red mist discipline.

Sporting course TTs or club evening events away from the dual carriageway courses have always been my favourite though.

TTs are fab and friendly. Lots of cake too.
The winner of the national 10 this year was on a relatively modest bike (2k I think) so even at the top level you do not need to spend loads. But its a bunch of middle aged men- of course we are going to spenf £££.
Busy fast courses are not for everyone, it is just one type of course, our local hardrider series has some lovely roads. and our club 10 is mainly on small roads.

The idea that iso-power is fastest is wrong. Also looking at power as you ride is rarely the best approach especially in short events. The occasional glance can help or hinder, it is a tool that can be used badly!
If it was just about power I would not do very well. I am a million miles away from being an athlete and managed a long 19 on a lumpy slow course, just putting the power down at the right time saved me a lot of time.

Edit: Anyone near Bristol who wants any advice etc. feel free to drop me a line. I can recommend nice courses too.

The winner of the national 10 this year was on a relatively modest bike (2k I think)

was around £1k

quite how much the support from Aero Coach would have cost though is another matter, but its another indicator that position is important

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/how-a-bike-costing-1000-won-the-national-10-mile-time-trial-championship-189583

Have you ever wondered whether it really is just you?

You mean is it simply my opinion? Er yes.. 🙄

I spent a couple of 5 mins periods in faux TT bars aka elbows on the tops during some sweet spot intervals last night. Once I'd inched forward it was amazing how easy my pedal stroke felt, although I could feel my belly getting in the way. I quite enjoyed the burn.

Just read some of the road race thread. 80

Few sporting TTs will sort you out, you'll be back road racing by the end of the year, and probably doing better, as you'll know what pain actually is. And how to pace yourself/judge your efforts.

I quit racing a couple of years back and started TTing, I was coming back from a long illness and needed a sense of competition as well as an accurate way to benchmark my recovery.

Started on my spare race bike with clipons and loved every minute of it. I love the scene, the fact that everyone is so helpful and pleasant - not like races where it feels like some sort of stand-off!

I like that you'll always find your level, and then even if you're not going to place in the top 3, you know who you're competing against and you can have a proper good tussle with with the lads that finish in your time bracket.

I bought an Argon 18, some Chinese wheels and spent less than 1500 quid. I get a free skinsuit off my old racing team who like to see me flying the sponsors' flag at events, and I bought a Kask Bambino when Ribble were knocking them out cheap.

So in a nutshell, I can't recommend it highly enough. It's accessible, fun and a bloody good workout!

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How important is the visor in TT's? I quite like the visor look, but the Bontrager Ballista I quite like doesn't have one. Note that I'd be riding to my local TT's.

The visor definitely makes it feel more aero, but it can get quite hot in there... And covered in snot!

But most importantly, it makes you look a bit "Robocop", and that's more important really... 😉

Isn't the Balista an aero race helmet like an S-Works Evade? If so, I'd only consider one of those if you could only have one helmet that you used for all road riding.

They're a bit of a half-way house... TT lids are hot and uncomfortable but they're as aero as you can get. If you're spending money specifically to get faster, I'd go the whole hog and get an out-and-out TT lid.

Having said all that, the Bambino is pretty comfy and surprisingly well vented compared to others.

Anyone used a Casco Speedster?

Did my first 10 for 34 years this summer. I'm now 52. Was just over a minute slower than my very first 10. Better bike now but not the wheels.

So I've found a Giro Selector at half price which also happens to be in club colours and with the visor I want, therefore coming in at the cheapest aero option of all specific helmets I want.

Am I going to look like a tit in my first TT wearing such a "pro" level item?

Or am I being a tit worrying about it?

Anyone who stands up in a skinsuit with a pointy helmet and looking in need of a good meal, is not exactly giving out a look of coolness, to be honest. Fortunately there is safety in numbers!

My Giro was second hand and £30. It did help me keep my head in the right position and feels faster. Everyone is over-biked#, over-wheeled, over-everything in TTs. It's how you buy speed. So no, you won't look in the least bit out of place.

You'll still get whipped by a pensioner on a fixed wheel steel bike with drop bars, pushing a dinner plate sized chainring, and wearing wool 😉

# just raced Marcel Kittel's frame in a road race, so it's not just TTs!

Exactly! My club ...a3crg runs a weekly evening club 10 in the summer and it is a fab experience! Everyone is friendly and you realise that it is about personal performance and trying to beat your own Pb!

When I went under 30mins for the 10 for the first time I got some of the nicest praise from the really really fast guys!

I never enjoyed road racing, but the TT scene has always seemed more welcoming!

You won't look a tit. I'd doubt most other riders would notice.

Nice helmet the Selector. I like mine. Feels pretty claustrophobic compared to my bambino, Giro didn't really leave any space for ears. Is faster though on me.

Just bought a black / red Selector. A couple of hot turbo session to decide the relevant lower section await I expect.

Gulp, the first time I read TiReds post I thought he said he paid £130, I bough I was getting a good deal at £140. £30!

It arrived...

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😀

Shave that beard. That'll be at least a watts worth of drag there.

Hang on, have you even done a time trial yet?

Most people can't ride like <insert cycling person here> but still have a bike like hers/his.

Thought that was Wiggins for a minute there 🙂

What's going on near the Giro logo, crashed it already?

Its a reflection of the light on the ceiling, slightly altered by the monochrome effect I used...

Can't believe no one has said - if you don't taste blood in your mouth when you have finished, you haven't ridden hard enough.

Also....prepare a good selection of excuses before the season starts so you can select, use and recycle them as the summer progresses. You will need them to explain why you lost a second and a half on that corner, that short climb etc.

Will anyone believe you? No. Will anyone listen? No...because they are busy delivering their own excuses.

It can be fun though and is curiously addictive. Haven't done a TT since about 1999/2000 and keep meaning to have another bash before I'm too old....but then I look at some of the old biffers thrashing people way younger, with much more expensive bikes and I realise I've got decades yet!

NB when you start believing lycra overshoes will save you 0.5 seconds in a 10 and you think it is worth it....have a long lie down in a darkened room!

😕
Except TT kit is pretty much the most restrictive kit out there, i can use an actual team sky bike and kit to commute with, if i want.

TT kit is pretty much for TT use only.

Ah. Comfortable? Mine isn't, and I'm a pin head.

Also....prepare a good selection of excuses before the season starts so you can select, use and recycle them as the summer progresses. You will need them to explain why you lost a second and a half on that corner, that short climb etc.

Traffic... bloody traffic!

And if you think no one cares, I've known people to analysed other's strava data to validate claims of delay.

Well, ghostly, its my cash eh...

Ah. Comfortable? Mine isn't, and I'm a pin head.

I've not ridden with it yet, but the living room tests it seems fine although tight on my ears. I'm going to do a couple of sessions on the Turbo with my TT setup so I can check / Mrs K can photo me to ensure I use the correct depth bottom section.

You can't TT with an aero helmet and not a TT bike. Its the rules.
I happen to have an argon E80 for sale by the way

Well, ghostly, its my cash eh...

I'm not even sure what point he's trying to make!

Not any more, you've spent it. 😉

Lol, sorry New Kitchen = N<>1

I have a fairly aero road bike (Bianchi Sempre) and that'll get used in 2016. I've no room for another bike atm, but if TT'ing works out I'll rationalise to a decent endurance/sportive style bike and a TT bike. I was looking (already) at a 'dale Slice the other day.

I'm not even sure what point he's trying to make!

I think he's bemoaning the fact I've bought a pro level helmet, yet have never ridden a TT.

Kryton, worth pulling the plastic bit (I think it's a T shape thing) out the back so you can get it tilted right back.

The instructions in mine state that the "lines" should be horizontal and not tilt backward. See photo for evidence of such a fit...