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Had a long conversation at work with those around me at work about driving standards and i made the usual complaints about BMW / Audi/ taxi drivers and how often they seem to want to kill me on cycle to and from work, and i was basically told that i was just jealous as they were nice cars. My response was that i didn't think it was, as i found other "premium" marques weren't anywhere as bad.
i felt that:
BMW and Audi 10X worse than Mercedes/ Alfa/ Volvo/ other nice cars?
DHL/ Yodel and other couriers 10X worse than Royal Mail drivers.
Drivers of fixed bed, small lorries much worse than articulated lorry drivers.
Range Rover drivers 10X worse than any other nice 4x4 driver.
Now i've probably insulted half the STW masssivem, discuss....
am i right
No. Its those kind of silly ideas that make cyclists appear to be idiots.
People make mistakes in all sorts of vehicles, in 10 years of commuting by bike I've found no correlation between vehicle type and poor driving, apart from buses.
audis and taxis are the worst, whether you're in a car or on a bike, it's always an audi or a taxi.
People who drive small cars are crap at parking, especially those who drive new style Mini's. FACT!
Can't say i've noticed any car brand more reckless/dangerous than another.
Have noticed Yodel van/wagon drivers being very courteous of late.
Yep got go agree on the Audi thing, it's a known term, Audi t**t. We reckon you must have to undergo a driving assessment at the dealership to see if you are a speeding tailgating aggressive twunt before you're allowed to buy one.
I find Taxi's are mostly quite good.
If anything, I think that some drivers of prestige cars may well think that as they drive a posh car, its like an affirmation of their ability to drive, I mean they couldn't possibly get insured otherwise!
It's probably reps and salespeople that are arsehole drivers, since they have to drive so much and are often involved in high pressure situations. Audis and BMWs are also popular cars with reps.
Simple. Confirmation bias.
Same as makes some drivers/people think cyclists are all rude, law-defying cockwombles.
A BMW driver confirmed my bias last night when I questioned why he was texting behind the wheel. "What the f's it got to do with you? Look at you, you're an f'ing state you pompous p***k" was his reply. He was a real charmer and I wasn't even in my lycra. He would have loved that.
Some taxi drivers are absolute tits, but I think that's probably just a professional driver thing.
WRT brands, I don't really find much of a correlation, though there might be - I would personally disagree that any premium brand is worse than another though. I treat everyone as a blind moron and this keeps me fairly safe.
There are, I suppose, some cars where you know the driver is an absolute idiot, for instance the kangoo done up like a 4x4 (external spare wheel, roof racks with ladders etc.) and any non-"special"/fast car done up to look fast (bodykits, big wheels)/fitted with a huge exhaust. It doesn't necessarily correlate to bad driving, a lot of people like this do genuinely value their car and show it by carefully avoiding adding unsightly bloodstains etc. to it.
As for when I am commuting by bike then it can be any vehicle that's driven badly. The Ford Fiesta overtaking a Vauxhall Astra that was overtaking me on a country lane was a recent highlight. Not a German car involved in that incident.
I've found Volvo drivers to be one of the worst. Sweeping generalisation of course but normally a bit older and buy because they are 'safe'. A lot of BMW owners at work talk about their BMW, not their car but their BMW. The sense of entitlement displayed is outstanding. Audi owners are nipping at their heels though.
their BMW, not their car but their BMW. The sense of entitlement displayed is outstanding. Audi owners are nipping at their heels though
Maybe they have 2 cars? If talking to someone in work I would say 'my x' as generally they know I have more than 1 car.
Volvo drivers YESSSS! But I say that as someone who lives in Sweden where every second car is a Volvo. Older, gold-ish S80s are right at the top of the list.
For balance, though, the last car to almost take me out was a Mazda.
My experience is that Audi drivers are the most likely to try and kill me via negligence but small van drivers (up to Transit sized) are the most likely to try and do it deliberately.
All the premier car brands are bad though - including BMW and Mercedes (although Audi do seem to be the worst). Can't say it's jealousy in my case either as we've got a BMW and a Mercedes ourselves.
Commuting across the New Forest, anyone towing a caravan regardless of vehicle. Perhaps a caravan-owner here can comment but it feels like the drivers forget that the caravan is actually wider than their car.
Glasgow black cab drivers occupy special class of bellendery all to themselves. They just do not GAF.
It's not bias - for BMW drivers it's an evidence based conclusion:
http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/697232/BMW-drivers-most-likely-break-speed-limit
My experience of cycling to work is that it's consistently Audi SUV, BMW and Range Rover drivers that are complete c0ckwombles. They mostly seem to be the personification of:
Whilst my OP was just a bit of fun and i appreciate a sweeping generalisation, I do genuinely find that if i see a BMW driver (or Audi/ taxi), i can see that they have actually seen me, they just have the attitude that they will pull out form side road or turn across my path anyway even if it is going to be close.
When it comes to van drivers, there seems to be a clear divide between whether it is clearly their company and they own the van, or if the driver is driving for a big company and its a works van and they won't be paying the insurance claim?
Whilst there is an element of confirmation bias, you must also remember that different careers (such as artic driver) or brands attract and are marketed to different types of people.
So it's perfectly possible for one brand of car to have drivers who are more aggressive, than another brand. You could argue that the way BMW markets their cars is going to attract a more aggressive driver, than Volvo for example.
The issue I mostly see doesn't appear to be agression but carelessness - certainly with the Audi drivers. With the van drivers it's more likely to be agression - certainly they're the only ones that have shouted at me to get off their roads so far!
if i see a BMW driver (or Audi/ taxi), i can see that they have actually seen me, they just have the attitude that they will pull out form side road or turn across my path anyway
I take that attitude with every vehicle will pull out in front of me regardless of make. Taking the attitude that 'its a nissan (for example), nissan drivers don't pull out in front of people' is an odd one and a dangerous way to ride.
Maybe they have 2 cars?
Alas no, certainly it's not why they talk about the 'BM'. Totally as a status symbol, like its the 80's still. Ditto 'the Audi'. I can only think of one other guy who would say 'the subaru'. Everyone else seems to say 'my car', 'my wifes car', 'the silver car' etc.
From 20 years of cycling daily in London I reckon that nowadays its Volvo and Seat driven vehicles that demonstrate the worst roadcraft. Cycling anywhere Putney/ Richmond means an almost guaranteed Volvo arm shaving or standard cut-up.
Most BMWs are driven by company car drivers who can't afford to lose their jobs, so they're usually ok.
No OP you are wrong, I've found it to be more black and greys cars.
Doesn't matter what age/make of cars they are just always black or grey
white van man here..
Some of my peers are real embarrassing.
Whenever I have been out on my road bike I've found the Rover/Jaguar driving gloves and hat in the rear window type the worst or best arm shavers!
Check out one of my earlier posts about a rover driver I overtook after setting of a speed camera on my bicycle, true story.
Channelling Brian for a minute, "It's a bit more complex than that"...
This is an old idea that's been doing the rounds since JC was a lad. Back in the late 70's my Dad would say the same about Rover drivers and at various points it's been Saab drivers, Volvo drivers etc also. BMW do tend to be overrepresented for some reason.
I'd suggest that the actual link isn't directly that they're nice cars at all - but that there's a substantial investment needed and that there is often a correlation between the drive to acquire larger salary and aggressive behavior tendencies in a variety of situations, driving being just one. Mixed in with this is the 'man on bus is loser' idea that if you're on a bike you're a pauper and automatically jealous of people driving, which is usually not correct in my experience as most bike commuters I know at least own a car and frequently a fairly nice one, but simply don't feel the need to show it off at every opportunity - possibly as they reserve such for their bikes... 🙂
Zafira drivers are by far the biggest bellends on the road by a light year.
You can guarantee that if a car cuts you up or pulls out on you or passes close its will be some fat tosser , or Mrs fat fosser or a family of fat tossers.
Shooting Zafira drivers should be a yearly event to thin out the population.
there is a BMW flatbed taxi that helps us out with uplifts on the weekends gratis. go figure.
I use the supplied cyclepaths and footpaths mostly so dont have an issue with motorists, whatever they choose to drive.
Tractor drivers on the phone HAS to be the highest percentage of phone using drivers..
I tend to find its not the make of car, it's whether there's kids on the back seat.
People doing the school run are the ones that scare me.
Buses and school pick up/drop off every time for me
The worst used to be anything with an Addison Lee sticker on it, other than that everything else was much of a muchness.
I've been most nearly killed by a driver ofor a container lorry. Van drivers generally OK. BMW drivers seem OK by me, Mercedes and Audi slightly worse.
VWs seem to be the worst, audi drivers in training with a point to prove.
I must say, I have considered this over the years and have come to the following conclusion.
In order of bad drivingness.
1. Old, knackered exec cars. (Big old b&w's and the like)
2. flat bed trucks.
3. Women driving mpv's
4. White van man.
5. Women driving audi a1's.
Clearly there will be exceptions to the rule, but.....
I commute a fair bit by bike to the City of London from Surrey. My anecdotal evidence tells me that 4x4 drivers are to be given a wide berth because they are typically limited in terms of side and rear view also they seem less aware of width of their cars and the gaps they should try or not try to make. Next it's performance cars as they do like driving fast often too fast for the conditions and can be a bit sketchy. Finally I've noticed that town drivers are more adept around bikes because they have to be, from Richmond Park onward into surrey it's considerably more dangerous, less traffic equals higher speeds and there appears to be less awareness of bikes. I don't think it's a make thing more a type of car and area thing. Except Audis which are ****wagons.
Shooting Zafira drivers should be a yearly event to thin out the population.
Whoa there! I commute on a bike and have a Zafira. Top car for fitting a bike, a kid and a Newfoundland in. Also 11st so must be the exception to your Zafira rule 😉
I've never noticed particular brands of car, van or wagon trying to kill me. Just expect them all to do something mental at any given moment and it's all good.
Round here it's definitely BMW and Audi drivers (I keep a tally). But it's all ages of those cars - the old knackered ones as well as the new sparkly ones.
It's so noticeable that my son, on his first ever road ride, commented on the fact that about 3 BMW drivers had passed either aggressively or too close (it was an unusually aggressive outing from my PoV)
As pointed out, we shouldn't be surprised - the type of person that values a more expensive car over cheaper alternatives is likely to have more 'alpha' tendencies. It's exactly what marketing departments strive to achieve.
Audi drivers - I've recently moved from Yorkshire to Scotland (which is, I'm told, the logical conclusion of Yorkshire) from one biggish city to another. Audi drivers in my old city were awful and pretty much every day on my commute some fricking Audi driver would do something that made me fear for my life. Weirdly, in Scotland, the Audi drivers don't appear to be any worse than anyone else. Notably, the road are much wider here which probably serves to reduce the number of sketchy/inappropriate/dangerous overtakes. This makes me think that a) there was definitely something about Audi drivers in my old city, and it wasn't just confirmation bias and b) the awfulness of drivers of certain car brands is not a consistent relationship, but varies depending on place, quality of roads, probably time of day, etc.
Taxi drivers and white van ****ers are awful everywhere, obviously.
That said, I've been hit by cars three times. None of those occasions was an Audi, BMW etc or a taxi. One occasion a flat bed (I was in a car for that one) and the other two were right hooks to my bike by middle aged women in mid range saloons. Not sure what conclusion I draw from that really.
Another bike commuting zafira driver here
We are saints on the road!
I'm cycling through London shortly
I shall make a mental note of any transgressions by vehicle type/brand
(not my own tho obvs)
Ime private hire taxis are the worst
Tractor drivers on the phone HAS to be the highest percentage of phone using drivers..
I noticed this when I was in Wales and Cumbria recently and find it baffling.
How do they get reception in these places?
On average I'd say BMW 1 series are definitely the most aggressively driven cars.
And I've been hit by more new Minis than any other car. (Both female drivers).
Apart from those, can't say I've seen a pattern.
Scaffold lorries are by far the worst, driven by idiots.
Ime private hire taxis are the worst
Helpfully, in London they have to have that TFL sticker in the back window, so you can spot the next car trying to kill you as you filter past them.
questioned why he was texting behind the wheel. "What the f's it got to do with you?
Because if you don't see me by being distracted by your phone I might end up under your wheels. Oh, you didn't want a sensible answer.
So I've cycled 2 in to the train station.
But it was all on segregated cycle paths, coz I live in the city of the future (MK has 300km of segregated redways)
There was an Audi doing off in the station car park at a jaunty angle, but it was hardly life threatening.
Well report further after I've reached the smoke
In the last 10 years of commuting I've only been taken out once, these were the culprits
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It's been a lovely quiet, and relatively close pass free summer, but now the kids are back, the idiots are back on the commute.
Three blind corner overtakes this morning. One mpv and two city type cars. How they didn't clean me, the drivers coming the other way and themselves up I can only put down to sheer luck.
No particular brand or type of vehicle bias as far as I'm concerned, just individual pillocks who should know better/have a better appreciation of others safety.
I can't believe the Nissan Juke hasn't been mentioned... I've no idea who's buying these ugly things, but they appear to drive about as well as they look like they should - not sure it's the drivers fault really.
On average I'd say BMW 1 series are definitely the most aggressively driven cars.
So you've encountered my daughter then!
On my ride on the outskirts of London last night there weren't too many close passes for once. Closest was a classic Ford Capri in fact - but even that wasn't too close.
Normally there are loads of Audi & VW drivers giving it big bootfulls when passing closeish - but didn't seem to be many of those out last night.
round where I live audi bmw and merc are the car of choice for the young men and yes there's a fair amount of ****tery goes on, speeding (20mph rds near us but pretty sure they're doing >30 anyway), rlj, double parking right outside the shop when there's a parking space 1 car length away, sometimes just just stopping in the road to chat to their mates who are driving the other way so completely blocking the road (and getting all arsey if anyone beeps at the for this). But while they've caused me to tut and swear under my breath a lot I'm not sure any of them have actually caused an incident for me (I'd class near miss as an incident)
As for the general population I think the audi bmw thing is just confirmation bias, possibly more aggressive due to target audience but IME ****less idiots are, by and large, a bigger issue than aggressive driving and ****less idiots drive all sorts of motors.
BMW driving commuter, that's almost an oxymoron. Maybe I can aggressively overtake myself.
FWIW, it's not specific brands of cars - in my experience. it's generally school run mums who are the biggest liability.
So, so much bad driving.
Last few near misses i've had (since the schools went back) were all women drivers, mainly in people carriers, but the BMW 1 series features quite highly too, the culprit of the closest shave was also wearing a headscarf just to throw another stereotype into the mix 😉 #banthebalaclava
So my 3km ride from euston to clerkenwell
A guy on a brompton shouted at me for riding too far out 😯
A black cab keen to get away at the lights buzzed an old guy on a brompton
2 cyclists went through red lights
1 White van man pulled close while I was filtering up the cycle lane
1 massive nissan 4x4 with a guy on the phone was drifting inwards a bit (knew he was on the phone even before i saw it)
1 guy in a range rover on the phone stopped in box junction
the biggest arse was private hire Prius doing a U-turn nearly swiped me, but cam really close to the guy behind me, ended with lots of shouting and swearing from both parties, but taxi driver was well in the wrong
so confirms my belief that private taxi hire drivers are the worst (but I do see a lot of those, often in Prius)
(didnt see any audis, merc or bmws driving badly)
Audi A3 on the way home yesterday. Pulled out of a side road in front of me. He knew I was there, I raised my arm in protest, he used a gesticulation not in the highway code back as he pulled out in front of me.
Arsehole
Team Sky bus drivers are the worst... 😀
Approx 113 of us are going to be killed this year (2014 data).
ROSPA quotes [i]The most common vehicle involved in collisions with cyclists is a car or taxi, with the rider usually being hit by the front of the vehicle. In a quarter of fatal cyclist accidents, the front of the vehicle hit the rear of the bicycle.[/i]
28 deaths from what transpires when a close pass isn't a pass
I can't seen ANYTHING being done to stop this attrition. Talking about it in this vaguely jocular way seems almost to condone it.
so basically not looking where they are driving and mowing someone down. Scary.In a quarter of fatal cyclist accidents, the front of the vehicle hit the rear of the bicycle.
you cant rant and rave about it (and I often do) but constantly foaming at the mouth about it can't be good for your blood pressure. I'm certainly not condoning it.Talking about it in this vaguely jocular way seems almost to condone it.
Case in point. white van man who just pulled over into the space I was occupying this morning, I shouted as I saw the manoeuvre coming, he still made it, I took evasive action, had a good swear at him and then tried to forget about it. Pretty sure it was basic lack of observation (and entering a bus lane before it had ended), I got my point across that I was there and wasn't happy, not much else I can do to get that guy to drive better.
Staying angry isn't going to help my day.
I am a BMW driver - a big shiny showy off one at that. When I first got it I stated I was not going to be 'one of those BMW drivers'
One of the first proper journeys in it I was going down a 3 lane bi directional road (2 in my way direction and one in the opposite). I was in the middle lane. Its a narrow road for 3 lanes so it feels a bit squeezed in the middle with traffic either side and its not a fast road so I was basically waiting for a gap in the oncoming traffic to pull past the traffic I was over taking (not speeding just slow traffic in the inside). I realised the middle lane was coming to an end and filtered my way into the inside lane. Didn't feel too aggressive or 'BMW W@nkery', that is until I realised I was now between the hearse and the lead car in the funeral procession.
I think that provided suitable 'confirmation bias' to any observers.
I do however give cyclists plenty of space.
For me its the school run mum / dad is the absolute worst. followed by tourists ( living in Edinburgh they take over)
Buses in Edinburgh are no issue at all. Some of the best drivers towqrds cyclists - but then they are trained to be careful around cyclists and it works
Interestingly on several tours on my bike on single track roads the only cars who have refused to drop a wheel off the road to let us by have all been big shiny black 4x4s. Locals no problem at all - they just drop two wheels onto the grass and we get by but these 4x4s will not do it. Confirmation bias you might say but its happened to me 4 times and every time a black 4x4
Not a particular make of car, but the older drivers round here (yes I know I'm also getting old) are especially dangerous. They don't drive fast, but seem to have no appreciation for what they need to do to pass a cyclist. No variation in speed or direction = a very close pass.
Shouted at one the other day - fixed stare forwards. His female passenger looked suitably embarrassed.
They don't drive fast, but seem to have no appreciation for what they need to do to pass a cyclist. No variation in speed or direction = a very close pass.
It's the ones that religeously obey every speed limit - the people who drive at 28mph in every 30 zone - when they reach the 40 start they floor it up to 38 then slam the brakes on and see-saw back and forth for a bit until they've settled down then they reach the next 30 zone and stand the car on it's nose to bring it back to 28.
They're so busy doing that and so convinced that driving at the speed limit = safe that they don't swerve or pull out for anything. Worst one is when the cyclist is doing mid 20s mph, they're doing 28 so they crawl past you, determined never to exceed the speed limit.
Just pull out and bloody floor it! I'd rather be overtaken with a 20mph speed differential with 5ft of space than a 3mph differential at 2ft of space.
Ok the winner is BMW drivers
some rotund old giffer, in a shiny new bemeer just tried to turn into me , I'm not sure why as I was passing a no entry road or maybe was swerving to avoid something on the other side, not sure what exactly and he drove off sharpish so no reg.
Fortunately it was low speed so I was stayed upright, bike ok too but DMR V8s leave quite a gouge down the front wing 🙂