[Closed] This wheel size thing - no more XL Specialized Enduro in 26"?

Other brands are available 😉

If you're after an XL you'd need you head testing to not go for the 29". I'd go with the Evo Stumpy 29" if I were you.

Why would he need his head testing? Not everyone likes how 29" wheels feel, regardless of how tall they are.

Yes I know other brands are available, few of them make a bike with the Geo of an XL spec Enduro. I already own one which fits me like a glove and the only reason I noticed was because I was absent mindedly oggling the latest Carbon version, so it is no skin off my nose at the moment. I am 6'1" so I am not that huge.

My point was about choice, and wondering if the marketing directions and costs involved in making so many iterations of bikes for differnt wheel sizes is going to end up restricting choice rather than adding to it.

And yes I have had a quick car park test on a 29'er - I didn't like it but it wasn't much of a test. I found the slower pick up due to the wagon wheels quite noticable. I like bikes that feel lively and jumpy, 29'er seems to kill it for me. Might be tempted by 650b though I've not tried one yet though and my current bike is fine for now.

And yes I have had a quick car park test on a 29'er - I didn't like it but it wasn't much of a test. I found the slower pick up due to the wagon wheels quite noticable

You got all that from riding in a car park.

Perhaps Specialized are aiming their Enduro model at people who ride enduros, not people who do one lap of a car park, and have found that 29" wheels are best suited for that purpose.

And yes I have had a quick car park test on a 29'er - I didn't like it but it wasn't much of a test. I found the slower pick up due to the wagon wheels quite noticable

have you thought about testing for magazines? with that sort of in depth testing you'd go far*

*or maybe just around a car park

Bike scene and certini usually have Spesh frames mate.

All nice and friendly tonigh lol

Guessing finding a xl test bike of any sort can be a pain.

Any thoughts on my topic Drac or Rocketdog? Or do you just want to pick holes and feel clever? I said it wasn't much of a test, and yes it was noticable. Clearly you know what I feel and like better than me.

Cheers Wookster - I got my current frame from BikeScene actually, good service.

Why would he need his head testing? Not everyone likes how 29" wheels feel, regardless of how tall they are.

Stop thinking about the wheels. The geo of the 29" is what a tall guy needs. Think about the triangulation of the CoG and how longer (30mm on the Stumpy) chainstays and front centre (wheelbase). Add the lower BB drop/roll centre and the rear suspension isn't as taxed.

The taller you are the more the 29" thing becomes a no brainer. I'm sure after a couple of rides the OP would be convinced.

It may just be they did not sell enough xl to warrant making them any longer ,

I think you may have a point orangeboy, that coupled with the fact that a 29'er can be percieved as filling part of the gap the XL 26'er leave behind. But that was kind of my point, are 29'ers going to be the death of 26" wheeled bikes to fit tall people?

Any thoughts on my topic Drac or Rocketdog? Or do you just want to pick holes and feel clever?

Quite evidently the latter not the former... Perhaps if you moderate Drac you should be setting an example rather than putting a normal member down? It's not exactly a level playing field.

Tbh i think if Spesh get there way 29er will be the death of good 26 wheeled bikes regardless of how tall you are,
New sworks enduro is 29 for 2014 as reviewed by pink bike
Can't get a camber in 26 in the uk
Or a stumpy ht

Quite evidently the latter not the former... Perhaps if you moderate Drac you should be setting an example rather than putting a normal member down? It's not exactly a level playing field.

TBF His "bike test" was a lap of a car park and there is nothing wrong with a bit of mickey taking.

I can read Singlespeed Shep! 😉

But that was kind of my point, are 29'ers going to be the death of 26" wheeled bikes to fit tall people?

More than likely, you can blame marketing all you want but people are buying them,

As soon as a demo comes near i'm going to have a proper go on one. Can't wait.

It may just be they did not sell enough xl to warrant making them any longer ,

This.
Unfortunately for tall people like me, the number of XL sizes that are sold is very minimal so it is hard for Specialized to justify producing an XL size for a model that they are probably predicting will see a big hit on sales numbers with the introduction of the new 29er version.

TBF His "bike test" was a lap of a car park

The OP already admitted it wasn't much of a test though hadn't he. If the average rider can't distinguish between the two wheel sizes in more than a few metres I would be very surprised. I can usually tell quickly whether I like a bike or not - differentiating between two very similarly performing bikes is obviously much harder.

There is also a difference between mickey taking and the often present annoyingly superior attitude that was taken earlier and too often on here...

I was actually quite surprised by how noticable the difference was. I don't think it was the best 29'er bike in the world and the wheels were pretty heavy, which would explain the feel so it wasn't just down the wheel size I'm sure.

I'm not automatically against bigger wheels, I'm quite interested in trying different bikes and would be keen to test a 29'er and 650b bike properly. I only ride bikes for fun, so a bike I find fun is all I am looking for.

I only ride bikes for fun

The best reason!

Any thoughts on my topic Drac or Rocketdog?

Thoughts first riding around a car park isn't going to demonstrate anything apart maybe sizing. Having ridden a couple now the last being the Santa Cruz Tallboy LTc I found them very nice to ride, it performed very well on the climbs and was lovely felt in good control on the descents. Took it down some rocky stuff and the bigger wheel did allow it to roll better, yes I know, but did feel nicer. Seemed to pick up quick enough for me can't say it was slower. I rode it around the Dales I'd ridden my Heckler a couple hours before on the same trail and the preferred the Tallboy LTc of course weighing a hell of a lot more less would help.

As for the sizing thing. I had this discussion last week with a friend and we both believe the same thing, at some point that frames will take 26", 29" and even maybe 650b allowing the frame to be a mixed size and easily tweaked to suit.

Perhaps if you moderate Drac you should be setting an example rather than putting a normal member down?

Fair enough it was a flippant comment but it was in response to what was a silly comment.

Any thoughts on my topic Drac or Rocketdog?

oh, sorry no, I've been testing a 650b on the patio, it's not for me, turning circle is too wide, i knocked over the terracotta pot

oh, sorry no, I've been testing a 650b on the patio, it's not for me, turning circle is too wide, i knocked over the terracotta pot

You see that's more like it...

I'm amazed at how sensitive some people are claiming to be in that after a short 'test ride' they can since so much of a difference. When I moved to a 29er I noticed no paradigm shift. I suspect some minds are made up even before a leg is cocked over the saddle. Maybe the differences people are feeling are more to do with it simply being a different bike full stop. When moving from one 26er to another the feel of the bike can be very different. Maybe the difference is not due to wheel size?

Maybe the differences people are feeling are more to do with it simply being a different bike full stop

I did say that when I was riding it too that it may not be wheels but the bike as a whole.

That's interesting Drac, I can imagine a frame being able to take 26" or 650b with interchangeable drop outs, there are some bikes out there already that can do this I think. 29'er as well seems a bit of a push, the geo too specific surely? Head angle would be wrong at one end of the scale or the other.

Wobbliscott it could well have been due to the wheels being heavy, rather than just their size - always noticeable. As I say, I'd like to do a proper test on a better bike...

If the average rider can't distinguish between the two wheel sizes [s]in more than a few metres[/s] by looking at the bike before riding it I would be very surprised.

If by "I found the slower pick up due to the wagon wheels quite noticable" he means he could tell it accelerated slower than one with smaller wheels, then either the difference is due to the fact he knew the wheels were bigger, or he should hire himself out to research labs as he's clearly far more sensitive to small changes than the average human.

Is it like the Star Wars Christmas Special, and Specialized have sent their lawyers out to crush all existing XL Enduros?

I wouldn't worry about it too much op. Hopefully companies will soon see sense and keep 29ers for road bikes and xc. Not a single one near the top in the enduro world series. 650b is the latest distraction and the entire bike industry is getting behind it. With companies as big as Giant getting on board it will catch on. Spesh will eventually give up trying to flog wagon wheels to everyone and realease 650b bikes in their longer travel range.

Not a single one near the top in the enduro world series.

You're presumably just looking at the men's field? TMO (of this parish) won the women's event on a 29er.

I wouldn't worry about it too much op. Hopefully companies will soon see sense and keep 29ers for road bikes and xc. Not a single one near the top in the enduro world series. 650b is the latest distraction and the entire bike industry is getting behind it. With companies as big as Giant getting on board it will catch on. Spesh will eventually give up trying to flog wagon wheels to everyone and realease 650b bikes in their longer travel range.

Lopes and Keene on 120 and 135mm 29" bikes in 15th and 16th places. Explain to me how they can give away 30mm of travel and still be competitive?

Back to the OP ditch specialized, find somebody who makes the bike you want, there are plenty as good out there you might just have to look a bit harder.

Not a single one near the top in the enduro world series.

You're presumably just looking at the men's field? TMO (of this parish) won the women's event on a 29er

Flamer pnwned 😆

Lopes and Keene on 120 and 135mm 29" bikes in 15th and 16th places. Explain to me how they can give away 30mm of travel and still be competitive?

For people who want to win, 15th & 16th isn't really competitive.

Wasn't it you telling us how 29er's were going to rule the EWS?

Not a single[b]trakworlder[/b] [s]one[/s] near the top in the enduro world series.

😆

It's amazing how sensitive/aggressive the 29er evangelists are. It seems to get them very upset if you don't immediately spaff over every single 29er. Apparently riding a 29er and not liking it proves nothing - riding a 29er and liking it proves everything.

29ers coming nowhere in a race proves nothing - 29ers winning a race proves everything. 😕

It's amazing how sensitive/aggressive the 29er evangelists are. It seems to get them very upset if you don't immediately spaff over every single 29er. Apparently riding a 29er and not liking it proves nothing - riding a 29er and liking it proves everything.

29ers coming nowhere in a race proves nothing - 29ers winning a race proves everything.

The exact opposite can be said for the 26" crew,

Not all 29ers are the same, just like 26ers.

As for the racing, the best rider wins.

The exact opposite can be said for the 26" crew,

Not on this thread. The whole concept of a '26" crew' is bloody ridiculous. I'm sure 29ers have their merits, just don't jump down someone's throat if they say they don't want one, as several people have done.

grum wrote:

It's amazing how sensitive/aggressive the 29er evangelists are. It seems to get them very upset if you don't immediately spaff over every single 29er. Apparently riding a 29er and not liking it proves nothing - riding a 29er and liking it proves everything.

29ers coming nowhere in a race proves nothing - 29ers winning a race proves everything.

Spot on! And actually there's only a very very small number of real 29er evangelists. - it's just that they are really persistent.

Specialized obviously expect taller people to move over to 29ers, XL bikes are a small enough market already. An XL long-travel 29er with really short chainstays is probably going to sell well. Its interesting that they are up-sizing the whole bike and then obsessively shortening the chainstays. It will make the bike easier to handle for shorter people but it might actually compromise it for tall ones.

Why are Specialized pushing the 29er so much?

It's not like they own the worldwide marker in 29er rims or something is it? They didn't invent the genre, so can't claim credit for that. You could argue it gives them some sort of unique selling point, but it doesn't really. There are plenty of other 29ers out there. So, what's in it for them.

I'm naturally cynical, but even I'm beginning to wonder whether they just think they can build a better bike around the larger wheel.

I have printed out the Geo of a 2011 XL Enduro for safe keeping - if I can't find a bike I like in the right size off the shelf in two years time when its time to replace it, I'll send it to Nicolai and get them to build me a Helius AM in the right size 😈

And maybe its all in my head but every bike I get on feels different to every other one to me - I'm amazed people can go from a 26" bike to a 29" bike and not feel a difference immediately, cos they are different! Otherwise what's the point? 🙄

Do all tyres feel the same? All bar widths feel the same? All stem lengths feel the same? No... why should wheels be any different?

FWIW, I think car park tests are a great way for feeling small differences between bikes.

The trouble is that that doesn't always translate to how they feel on the trail. A bike may feel noticeably stiffer for example in the car park but actually not really any different once you're out on the trails...

And maybe its all in my head but every bike I get on feels different to every other one to me - I'm amazed people can go from a 26" bike to a 29" bike and not feel a difference immediately, cos they are different! Otherwise what's the point?

Do all tyres feel the same? All bar widths feel the same? All stem lengths feel the same? No... why should wheels be any different?

+1

Do all tyres feel the same? All bar widths feel the same? All stem lengths feel the same?

No, they feel different and you can tell that straight away. What is much harder to tell (without a much longer test) is whether one is better than the other.

Agreed clubber and roverpig. Unless you are racing its all personnal preference anyway, a second or two over a 30min stage might be important to Nico - its not important to me. But what is a shame is that what starts out as a personnel choice becomes an enforced one due to corporate profitability and marketing... time will tell.

I have an XL enduro 26" bike and its the best fitting bike I have had so far on a 26" bike. I'm disappointed they have stopped making them as well as at 199cm tall its tough finding a bike in the geometry you want without making lots of compromises to make it fit! Its not like that with the Enduro, nice long head tube with slack angles and long wheelbase. Decent climbing and great descending.

If the new spesh enduro in the 29er guise fits and works as good then great but I'm just not so sure. On very tight switchbacks, drops jumps etc will it be as good? I hope so as I will defo buy another when the time comes if it is.

I own a 29er XC bike and it does feel very different, better fit and faster in certain circumstances but not so sure in technical tight stuff. Maybe I need to get used to it more. But I do think long travel 29ers will feel different and hopefully in good way!

The choice would be good.

29ers coming nowhere in a race proves nothing - 29ers winning a race proves everything.

Point proven then. I wish I'd paid more attention to what Tracy was riding when I've seen her recently, as it appears the bike she won on isn't yet for sale and has been getting lots of press - I suspect I might have got the scoop if I'd been paying attention - all I noticed is that she's been riding a 29er.

BTW I'm almost as far from a 29er evangelist as you can get - I don't even own a bike with 29" (or 650b) wheels.

And maybe its all in my head but every bike I get on feels different to every other one to me - I'm amazed people can go from a 26" bike to a 29" bike and not feel a difference immediately, cos they are different!

In just the same way one 26er is different to another. You can probably notice the difference in geometry and even the difference a slightly heavier wheel makes to steering, but if you can actually notice the difference in acceleration due to the larger wheels then you're not human. Far more likely that you're noticing differences in tyres and contact points which are far more significant to bike performance and feel.

Sherry I agree - the combination of really short chainstays but long wheelbase seems to make for a super stable but fun and manouverable bike - there are not many bikes quite like it. My bike has a 48" wheelbase, much longer for example than the Orange 223 I used to have despite the chainstays being way longer on the 223. And yet it is the easiest bike to get around Alpine switch backs I've had, its magic. I considered the Forward Geo Mondraker before buying the enduro, its the only thing quite like it I could find without going the custom Nicolai route and that was too expensive for what was still an experiment for me at that point. Now I know it works. I don't know for sure but would 29'er wheels kill the fun feeling that the bike retains despite its size, I don't know.

For people who want to win, 15th & 16th isn't really competitive.

Wasn't it you telling us how 29er's were going to rule the EWS?

LOL! Tell that to the World Champion DH riders and guys like Adam Craig who were behind them.

I didn't say they would win. Just maybe surprise a few people on 29" trail bikes.

Where I struggle with this is why is there a debate at all. Many alternative options live happily side by side in harmony in cycling. Take frames. You can get alloy, carbon, steel, even bamboo. I don't hear any arguments trying to polo rise everyone to frame materials. They each have their own pro's and cons. I really don't see how wheels need be any different. I've had 26ers and 29er and like them both and personally think the pro's and cons touted around at each are much over hyped and in some cases are academic and simply not noticeable in the real world, or just simply BS. Lets end this madness now. Each to their own and lets get on with it.

It's amazing how sensitive/aggressive the 29er evangelists are. It seems to get them very upset if you don't immediately spaff over every single 29er

nothing compared to a 26" rider desperately defending their wheel size.

You do realize that we are winding you up don't you? It's becoming a bit too easy though.

Really, no one cares what size wheel you ride, [b]ride for fun, not for fashion[/b]

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If you are riding for fun what bike wins races in the hands of a professional rider has no bearing on what is going to be the most fun ride for a recreational rider. The most fun bike I own will never win any races on the Enduro circuit (26in 66deg HA Hardtail) but it is such a blast to ride. At the moment I ride it more than any of my other bikes.

If someone wins an XC race, a DH race or an Enduro race on a different bike that doesn't mean it's going to be fun for me to ride that bike. The pros can make anything work for one thing and in any sport the fastest most aggressive tool in the hands of the pros is not necessarily what is best for the masses.

On the 29er thing. I've done direct comparison on 26" Stumpjumper Evo and 29" Stumpjumper Evo. For me the 26" bike is hands down the more fun bike to ride (subjective I know). I didn't time any runs so it could well be that the 29" was faster, but the winning bike is the one that left me with a bigger smile at the bottom of the trail. A friend feels that 29ers are fun for him and that's his choice.

What I don't like is companies taking the decision out of my hands. It looks like many companies are not going to make 26" AM and Enduro bikes for 2014 and this is something that I find pretty bad. We the customer should be able to choose, not be told what we want.

And that sums it up brilliantly for me - it seems that advent of the bigger wheels is going to reduce the choice in the all-rounder category of bike that many of us like to ride for fun, particularly in larger frame sizes. I'm so glad I managed to get my bike when I did. I don't mind what size wheel people choose to ride I am a fan of the choice of wheel sizes, but a bit like religion I have my own preference and I don't want anybody else's preference forced upon me.

No, they feel different and you can tell that straight away. What is much harder to tell (without a much longer test) is whether one is better than the other.

Absolutely - very quick to feel 'different', some time to adapt, much more difficult to assess 'better' as better in one area normally means worse in another.

I was actually quite surprised by how noticable the difference was. I don't think it was the best 29'er bike in the world and the wheels were pretty heavy, which would explain the feel so it wasn't just down the wheel size I'm sure.

You'll also be quite supprised to hear the maths doesn't add up. The slower rotation (it's rotating 10% slower at any given speed) of a 29er wheel cancels out the increaced diameter. The increaded weight is relavent,

26"x2.35 Hans Dampf is 760g
29"x2.35 is 850g

So that's 90g (plus 40-50g for the rim). But one thing to note is that you can potentialy drop a tyre (width) size when going up wheel size and maintain the same contact patch size and cushioning/suspension/whatever, a 29er 2.25 (a 2.1 would be closer to 10% smaller, but I don't want accusing of bias) NN is 650g, saving 100g/wheel! So the maths/physics doesn't suppourt the idea that 29ers would accelerate slower.