Thinking of buying an ebike - advice please

I think Hart’s Cyclery in Costorphine do a lot of e-bikes. (Not sure if they are MTBs) You might want to go & have a chat in there.

i`d go FS purely for comfort if you can.

also the weight of the bike means the ht does give you more of a battering which the FS takes off. Youll also do more riding with teh EEB.

There were some cheap FS lapierres about but probably not local. That said most of the parts/issues/warrenty etc can be dealt with by a local official service centre.

i personally wouldnt buy anything from evans or want to rely on them for warrenty. (some are potentially decent but...)

Not interested in a FS  apart from anything else its a huge extra cost.

Evans reputation not good then?

For warranty piece of mind I'd go with Specialized.

Mrs SSS has 2 ebikes. Specialized Vado and a Cube Reaction Hybrid Performance 500.

Ive used both (in the interests of testing them out).

The Cube IMHO for the money is awesome. The motor and battery and user interface is far superior to the Vado.
BUT the Cube is around 23kg and the Vado around 14-15kg.
It does exactly what she needs from it at Aberfoyle and Aviemore etc on trails and singletrack. She doesnt need a full susser.
I used the Cube up the Ochil hills, and my god, it was powerful. For her, the battery lasts around 45miles on Tour and EMTB with the occasional foray into Turbo.

I recommend the Cube, and id buy it again...

Want to make it lighter? Replace the 3kg forks for something a bit more 'sporty' and maybe a wheelset change. I reckoned i could get 3kg off it easily that way. But for the cost/benefit

We bought the Cube from Start Fitness.

Had no issues with the Cube (or Vado). It will be 2 years old in August. Local dealer has Cube facilities and its been in for a firmware upgrade and remove the 'service spanner' icon on the interface.

May I suggest that the reason you don't want to do more than one climb is that you want to be fitter? If you could increase that then your life will be better all-round, not just on the bike.

Just a consideration, not a moral judgement 🙂

one advantage to me of the cube is its 9spd 135 spacing rear so can take a spare rohloff I have.

May I suggest that the reason you don’t want to do more than one climb is that you want to be fitter? If you could increase that then your life will be better all-round, not just on the bike.

I think its more to do with age.  I'm as fit as I ever have been in many ways but Im nearly 62.  ride out, one climb ride home is 25 - 30 miles with 1500 - 2000 ft of climbing

yeah, get fitter you lazy old bu55er.............. ;o)

I have a cube FS with the 750 battery.
Excellent bit of kit and it's enabled me to get out on the trails after an injury sidelined me for 3 months.

No issues so far. You get a lot of bike for the money.

Would recommend to buy locally just in case you need to take it back for repair

good local dealer is the key with ebikes. I used to use Dales in Glasgow as I have 2 Spesh ebikes, now i go to Pedal Power.

They break, electronically, at some stage, usually at least once or twice within the 2 yr warranty..

Decathlon do a cheap full-sus, looks quite basic tho!
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/29-inch-electric-mountain-bike-e-st-stilus-blue/_/R-p-X8623039

I actually think it might be cheaper to buy and run a small car and drive to the trails than get an mid-range EMTB (tho I own a Shimano one)

The Cubes are usually great value and a Bosch motor in my experience is fairly quiet, so far reliable IME and importantly can be serviced and rebuilt by quite a few companies now.

I also would have suggested a full suss for an eeb due to the extra weight but to be honest I've always loved my hardtails and it really depends on the levels of gnar-age that you plan to do.

There's not really a huge amount more maintenance required on a full suss necessarily. Perhaps the odd bearing change, the odd shock service, but a lot of that depends on how much you rag it.
Looking at the fork servicing thread, clearly a lot of folks don't feel the need to keep up with service intervals. It depends on how you ride and how you treat it with washing etc.

If it's just to get extra range and get to places you'd have to otherwise drive then a hardtail might be just the thing.

The 15mph limit can be a bore on the road though but it's no biggie if you just chill.

But yeah, when I was looking, the Cubes came forward a lot in terms of build value, I just wasn't keen on the looks if I'm honest and so went Orbea.

The other consideration is getting the bike up all of those stairs at home. A removable battery will certainly help, but a FS is usually heavier too.

Have you considered moving house? Somewhere nearer the hills and with fewer stairs - maybe even a shed for the bikes.

Have you considered moving house?

A slightly extreme idea but unsuprisingly yes I have and probably will do in a couple of years.  I wonder if the walk assist will get it up the stairs!

I wonder if the walk assist will get it up the stairs!

You'll tend to get a lot of wheelspin IME, as you naturally unweight the back end hoiking it up over steps. Not ideal.

The walk assist is good for steep and smooth I've found, but if it's too rough you still have to do a degree of lifting, which unweights, which can cause slips.
I rarely use it. That's partly because ridiculous climbs are great fun on an eeb. Stairs inside a building might be a bit TOO much though 😊

I worked in a dealer selling Specialized and Cube - we sold a lot more Cube e-bikes than Spec, but did way more warranty work on the Specialized ones. I bought an e-bike last year - minimum requirements were Bosch CX motor, hydro brakes and 9 speed drivetrain vs hub motors, cable brakes and 7-8 speed drivetrain which tend to come on entry level e-bikes.

Decathlon do a cheap full-sus, looks quite basic tho!
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/29-inch-electric-mountain-bike-e-st-stilus-blue/_/R-p-X8623039

we own one of these (ok its the wifes but...). its alright for a cheap eeb. it done me a few decent rides while my main bike was out of service. its more of a 'across and up' bike then a 'down and fun' bike. mainly due to teh long chain stays and extra weight (my eeb is 22kg - the stilus is 25+). i have jumped it but i would not want to do the more interesting/techy jumps on it. i replaced the fork right away as i had better forks spare. we got the cheapest version as the shock on that has rebound damping.

its similar in feel to teh cheap cube HT we tested and the wife prefers the full suss as the rear wheel doesnt get pinged about sideways so much. and well - its just nicer.

Could you put a board up one side of the stairs? One of the more ridiculous cycle trails near me has steps and a board up the side to help you wheel the bike upstairs.

@Bruce - it's a shared stairwell. In a multi-storey building.

That won't work then 🙁

Great for a descent though 🤣

Its very much the case that to get a good set up you buy the basic bike(for the motor/battery) and upgrade just about everything else.

If you've an extensive parts bin, that would be an ideal scenario for anyone new to Ebikes. Cost of them is f******g horrendous for what you really get spec wise..

Good point.  the cube has very basic kit but I have a 135 spacing rohloff to put in instead of the 9spd gearing.  A decent fork however is £££ and would bring the total spend closer to one of the more expensive bikes

Stairs is really not a huge issue.  I've done this for 30 years

I bought a SL ebike last month. I wanted to be able to get more climb in each ride without turning myself inside out. Easier for those stairs?
The "trail" setting is equivalent to a mates lowest setting and the "turbo" to his "trail".
It's fantastic, point it up and zoom up you go. Point it down and it's great fun, thanks to being "light" 19kg. I was at thornielee yesterday and on normal bike I'd be blowing after 4climb and descents, yesterday it was 6 in 20 minutes less than it takes for 4 and legs feel ok for a run today. It's not free climbs though I used about the same number of calories as I would on a 4climb day just got more W out than I'd normally. I'm not sure that for me at 70kg a full fat ebike wouldn't be too much. At 24kg or so they can be a barge to turn in techy.
From Leith if going up water of Leith path, you'd probably be on eco given how "flat" it is. Trail setting would be fine for most of the pentlands with the odd turbo moment. Coming back eco all the way.
Specialized app allows a smart mode where you can tell it some parameters (battery, distance or heart rate) and it'll adjust the power on the ride.
Alpine at GT have a couple of ex demo levos (I know you don't want fs) which are a decent price.

Which model is it ?. So we can all have a look and make more targeted suggestions.

https://www.evanscycles.com/brand/cube/reaction-hybrid-performance-625-2023-electric-mountain-bike-720624#colcode=72062411

Seems to be the cheapest MTB with the latest bosch motor and a large battery

Cheaper here!
https://www.freeborn.co.uk/cube-reaction-hybrid-performance-625-2022-silver-blue-emtb

Specialized Tero EQ is well worth a look. A very versatile type of bike but maybe a bit jack of all trades for some.

Horatio - local dealer tho?  Seems to be a good idea to have a local dealer in case of warranty work.

pauly - Bosch motor?  Seems to be the easiest to get repaired outside of warranty and maybe the most reliable?

I'd stick with Bosch, and not just because mine is Bosch and I'm biased, its more that in the long long(aspie) researching, bosch came up consistently in forums, threads and other notes showing it more reliable than any other.

The cube shown looks like a good enough deal for the money. Brakes,wheels and forks could be upgraded probably as forks or brakes first and if you come across a 2nd hand set of Hope wheels, change them then.

The 2A charger isnt ideal.4A would be much better

Bosch motors tend to last slightly longer than Specialized ones when used like-for-like but when they do fail you'll be without your bike for much longer. Bosch require the motor back before accepting/rejecting a warranty whereas Specialized send a replacement out then ask for the faulty unit back later.

The biggest factor in how long a motor lasts is how it's washed - let the dirt dry and then brushing it off is best practice, as is making sure any moisture can escape from around battery connections.

Also bear in mind maintenance ease/cost. A lot of the time the motor needs to be removed to change (internally routed) cables so shop labour charges will be higher.

Sorry @tjagain it’s not a Bosch. Spesh do have an excellent warranty and support. Good assisted purchase outside of warranty for original owners too.

Im thinking long term and from what I have read the bosch motors are the easiest to get repaired / get spares for once out of warrenty

@tjagain alpine/tiso are spesh.

I just got a whyte e160rsx .it's incredible. I'm selling my 5 month old giant reign 1 and I never thought I'd say that

@tjagain - before you make a huge mistake are you absolutely positively definitely 100% sure that Putoline is compatible with ebike chains?

just be aware the motor on that Cube is the one of the lower ones... most 'proper' MTBs come with the performance line CX...

DrP

Bosch motors tend to last slightly longer than Specialized ones when used like-for-like but when they do fail you’ll be without your bike for much longer. Bosch require the motor back before accepting/rejecting a warranty whereas Specialized send a replacement out then ask for the faulty unit back later.

The biggest factor in how long a motor lasts is how it’s washed – let the dirt dry and then brushing it off is best practice, as is making sure any moisture can escape from around battery connections.

Also bear in mind maintenance ease/cost. A lot of the time the motor needs to be removed to change (internally routed) cables so shop labour charges will be higher.

I think you're being a bit ambiguous .

I've yet to read any threads on how one motor has better lomgevity than another, so where exactly is that info coming from.

The other is also I've yet to hear of Bosch refusing motors on warranty, so including the 'refusing' bit add bias

WATER- They're waterproof to a greater degree, and while i would like every bike say dont use a pressure washer(grease/bearings etc) on an ebike theres a possibility it will force water up into the casing. Personally I cannot say the housings are totally waterproof, or not because I havent pulled any apart, but i have read threads from people who maintain/fix/service ebike motors that water ingress is a problem, but nowhere does it state how the water got in there. You can tell some folk not to pressure wash and thats exactly what they're going to do no matter what.

On the EMTB forum, the chap who runs the 'performance bearings' company who services motors did a list of which motor group failed and in what percentage. And while al showed water ingress, it was the bosch ones that failed mostly at the bearings and shimano etc on water damage. Read from that as you will.

But waterproof in use they are, because i commute on mine and its in all weathers. I have left it out int he rain a couple of times and no issues presented themselves.

Cables - Changing a cable only involves feeding a new one in through the outer case, it doesn't require removing the motor. If things are that bad and you do need a new outer cable, its been over a year and thats kind of the same whatever you buy. But outwith rear brake, you wont be changing any internal outer that often.

Is it actually going to get you to the trails any quicker? Easier maybe, in urban riding, but your top speed isn't going to be a lot faster. It will allow you to do more riding when you are out at the trails, because the climbs will be much faster of course.

I have to say, looking at the map the Pentlands don't seem as if they'd provide enough riding variety week in week out to keep me interested for 30 years. Is that perhaps part of the problem?

I have to say, looking at the map the Pentlands don’t seem as if they’d provide enough riding variety week in week out to keep me interested for 30 years. Is that perhaps part of the problem?

An awful lot more riding than is on the map.

just be aware the motor on that Cube is the one of the lower ones… most ‘proper’ MTBs come with the performance line CX…

DrP

Ta - thats the sort of info I needed.  So a part of the reason the cube is cheap its not the top of the line bosch motor.  I missd that

If you are going to use your Rohloff I think you need to take care of the size of the front ring to not put too much torque on the Rohloff.  I seem to remember they have limits on the sizes of the rings for different sizes of wheels they are mounted on

e.g. here (but this might not be the speedhub that you have)
Tables - Rohloff AG

This says it has a Bosch Gen 4 Performance Line CX

https://www.cube.eu/uk-en/cube-reaction-hybrid-pro-625-flashwhite-n-black/634112

40 / 16 tooth should be fine - its higher than the tandem ratio IIRC but yes I would check

tj, as a recent ebike person myself, I'll just back up the point that given the limited top speed, commutes to trails are not really any faster or more fun. Yes, they can be more chill as even in eco you get all the assistance you need to pootle along at the max limited speed, but it doesn't bring them any closer (and in fact over Christmas I've struggled with longer commutes to trails as I just don't generate the same internal heat - bloody freezing!).

However, once you get to the trails, absolute game changer. See that 4th hill that you are not sure you have the beans to ride up? Go to do it! See that rubbish uphill trail that you've not even looked at before? Go do it!

Hilarious fun. but the commutes are still long and slow (unless you de-restrict the motor, as my riding buddy did, which resulted in the motor shitting itself after a month and the warranty being refused. oops!)

Any reason not to just build one up yourself using a Tongsheng motor and a suitable frame? (I believe you've done this before on another bike.)

Both my main bikes (a Cube hardtail and a full-sus) are now "electrified" and I still ride them everywhere that I used to before. The only drawback that I've found is that the motor hangs a bit low but, apart from that, for me the advantages of a DIY built outweigh a ready-built eBike in every way, not least of all the price.

I even bought a spare motor just in case I need it (or parts from it) in the future. I built another Cube hardtail up for my riding buddy and between us we have three bikes, four motors and three batteries, all for well under the cost of a cheap ready-built eMTB.

Oh, and they all have 135mm rear spacing.

buig scots nanny - its as much the effort to get out to the hills as the time.

steve - the tongsheng does not always fit well on a 29er that takes fat tyres but its an option for sure

I understand. Frame choice is indeed a big limitation. We've been searching for ages for a Tongsheng-able full-sus frame in XS for my riding buddy, but we've yet to find one.

@dyna-ti the longevity comment was based on what we see in the shop I work in. We deal with Spesh & Boach equipped bikes and, whilst we sell many time more Specialized's, we see more in for issues. That being said they're fairly easy to "repair".

My reference to Bosch potentially refusing a warranty was merely acknowledging the possibility. I felt my comments on warranty would prove helpful to the OP as they mentioned warranty and repairibility.

Given how well water & electricity play together, e-bike systems are impressively sealed but eventually water causes a problem. My experience is based on MTBing. Most commonly water ingress is via bearing seals but does take a while and pressure washing definitely quickens their demise.

In the context of shifting performance, by the time a cable needs changing the housing general does too. Any decent shop would change both to restore the shifting and some e-bikes are definitely easier/quicker to work on than others.

I wouldn't normally recommend this, but given limited budget would you be better off trying to get a second hand good spec FS eeb with Bosch cx motor?

The arse falls out of used eeb values due to the lack of warranty, but that could be an advantage to you.

You would have to accept the fact that it is going to break out of warranty and you will have a bill at some point, just as you'd accept that with a used car.

That could well work out better value and a LOT more capable than buying something that is *always* going to be basic and limited l.

Would echo the points about FS being more warranted on an eeb on proper offroad. HT will give a lot of limitations for what is possible (e.g. bonkers technical climbing).

Would also echo comments about restricted ebike not being any quicker (actually slower) commuting to trails.

@sss

that's odd!

The UK sites TJ linked to say "Bosch Generation 3 Performance Cruise motor which produces 65Nm torque"!

DrP

EDIt - the pro has the better motor, the performance one has teh lower motor....
Link to performance model

Dr P
the bike SSS linked to is the posh version - the "race"

El boufador - maybe a good call.  Buy a better secondhand one and budget for a motor?

@tjagain I would try and demo a Bosch powered e-bike if you can as the motors feel very torquey when they kick in - some people like it, some don't.

I have ridden a bosch motor bike.

<<Edited to remove erroneous info>>

Mrs SSS Ebike has a Gen 3 like the Evans cycles link and it’s over a year old

Ta

Sorry. After getting lost in the website. DrP and Evans is indeed correct

https://www.cube.eu/uk-en/cube-reaction-hybrid-performance-625-polarsilver-n-blue/533112

The Reaction Hybrid Performance is a Gen 3 non performance line motor. At least 2 year old technology.

I can't comment on ebikes but I'm a seven minute ride to the boundary of the regional park.

There is a range of riding both there are around Midlothian.

Moving is my suggestion (that's been mentioned though)

If it’s anything off-road mountain biking on loose rough ground don’t get an hard tail.
My mate got one to save some money and it’s hard work, on my full sus i have to continually stop and wait for him, on road or canal etc it’s fine, anything else including hill climbing off road he just can’t keep up with the pace.

Moving is my suggestion (that’s been mentioned though)

Not for a couple of years and if I do it will not be to those ghastly edinburgh suburbs / commuter towns 🙂

@onehundredthidiot
I bought a Kenevo SL 5 weeks ago after hiring one from Gordo in Inners, done 400 miles on it so far, all in the valley.
Not cheap but got it for a very good price in the BlackFridaySales, and certainly not comparable to what TJ is after, but I am finding it fun and basically I'm just covering ground a bit quicker than my old Cotic. Use it mostly in Eco, but drop into Trail for a bit more pace and then I've always Turbo for one more climb. Did nearly 4500ft at the Golfie today on only half the battery (including extender) capacity.

TJ
I'm almost your age, get a FS - I'd imagine that the extra weight of an ebike HT makes for a 'painful' ride on anything other than smooth gravel.

My current favourite bike runs plus wheels and one of these...
https://www.pnwcomponents.co.uk/products/coast-suspension-dropper-post-external
Must say that in the Surrey mud I'm not missing rear suspension at all.
Of course oop north might be different.

not be to those ghastly edinburgh suburbs / commuter towns 🙂

One man's ghastly commuter town is another man's historic mining village. We can't all be property tycoons living it up in the big city.

If I was you I'd be looking at an Islabike, you don't go fast enough for suspension and you'll appreciate the dropped top tube and dropper post when getting yer leg ower.

It’s always worth restating that this is not accident or incompetence, this is deliberate, planned Tory policy.

They’ve always hated the nhs, hated that a hugely successful and popular public service exists. It proves that the ‘only private industry works’ mantra is a lie. The Tories want peoples health expenses to go to private companies, as in USA, not because it’s a good system but because they and their friends will get fat on it.

From experience do not buy anything with a Shimano motor. Shimano will not sell spares for their motors so very few shops will repair then.

Have you looked at Haibike?

They have a massive e-bike range although I have no experience of them personally.
A good mate who works in the bike industry has previously ridden Haibike e-bikes and really rated them.

Might be worth a look.

Well I still haven't bought one.  Old tight fisted me is having trouble spending that much money 🙂  I am reluctant to go second hand because of relibaility concerns

Seems that stock is actually fairly low in Edinburgh.  Not a huge amount of choice

I have looked at a few bikes - there is a cube available with a gen 3 motor  650 battery at a reasonable cost, and a Whyte with the gen 4 motor but only a 500 battery.  Both can be had in lower or higher spec IIRC

Im thinking the gen 3 motor will be fine and the bigger battery better.  Is that daft thinking?  I know from previous ebikes I have ridden I find it hard not to max it out allthe time so the lower power motor with the bigger battery will give significantly more range?

The Cube bikes do look like very good value overall.

Edit - the posher spec cube  seems to have the gen4 motor.  Anything wrong with cube bikes?

fyi tj, below is a recentish quote from an e engine rebuilder

Buy an old Bosch Gen2, Brose or Yamaha (not Giant). At least these motors are currently between 90% and 100% repairable.

———-

ps I think later Bosch motors have the circuit board at the bottom of the engine

I use an On One Codeine 29er with a Tongsheng 750w motor & a Haibike XDuro with a Bosch CX.

Personally I prefer the On One.

If I was in your shoes I'd either buy something with a Bosch motor (you can service them yourself) or I'd get a Dengfu HT carbon frame such as the M01 with a Bafang motor. Then you can chose anything between 250w to 1500w depending on the motor and have any speed limit you like. Plus they're easy to fix or get fixed and cheap to replace.

This is the chap that owns the EMTB forum. He rides the bikes, has the background, which is unlike many of the you tube Ebike reviewers who it seems are either new to cycling and just jumping on the bandwagon or are unfamiliar with emtb's and so don't understand the kit,bits and bobs etc.

https://www.youtube.com/@RobRidesEMTB/playlists

I'm not sure it's the case on the newer Whytes, but certainly changing the battery was reportedly a real pita at one point, disturbing wiring etc.

I suppose this is more of an issue if you're using it as an uplift bike and going through more than one battery on a ride, or if you need to remove the battery overnight for security.

Not an issue if only on the one battery and leaving it in the bike.

When i was looking, the Cubes seemed to have the best spec for the money.

Ta chaps - I bought a cube today.

Ta chaps – I bought a cube today.

Pics please 😊

Its on order.  I haven't got my paws on it yet

Pushing it up stairs make you big and strong, like ox 🙂

Joking aside, I think it might be quite hard work. I found humping a Turbo Levo up our short flight of outdoor steps fairly intense, but I guess it'll also depend on the steepness and spacing of the steps. Going down could be fun though.

I used to carry the tandem up and its a similar weight.  I'm hoping the walk assist might work on the stairs.  Its only 104 steps

Which Cube did you go for in the end?

Mrs SSS has the Reaction Hybrid Performance - Gen3, 500 battery. 2 year old now. Got 3000 miles on the clock atm.

Ive ridden it, very impressive!