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Vaguely considering chopping in the 456 and building myself a nice short-ish travel allroundery full suss, just wondering if anyone's got any suggestions to check out.
Not an outright racy XC bike, it'll have to do occasional xc races but also be the first choice for trail centre stuff, and occasionally get taken to the downhill trails for a laugh. I like a bit of slackness but won't insist on super-slack for this one (though a headset-type that I can mess with would be good) ISCG tabs also good but not totally required. Bottle cage bolts required I reckon which sadly rules out the Whytes 🙁
The Camber's got my attention- seems to tick the boxes, though the lower spec ones seem a little nasty. But sensible head angle (68.5) and BB height (335m) and I like the FSR setup.
But what else? Specialized's Epic Evo also got my attention but not so easy to find used. Cannondale RZ120 is a little steeper but otherwise seems in the same ballpark... GT Sensor, I like the idrive suspension system but it's steeper still and I expect as heavy as the moon. Mondraker Factor maybe...
Orange ST4 on paper should be on the list but I didn't get on with it at all.
Blur TRc?
That'd do it... But probably out of budget.
Picky, picky, picky...
Bandit
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If you're looking at second hand, what about the last model Stumpy?
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Turner Flux meets your criteria - they can be real rippers on the trail, can be built as light XC type (but not strictly speaking a race XC bike), can be built burlier for more fun on jumpy downhill things (although the 5 Spot takes that to a whole other level).
I had a Flux and loved it for the type of riding you describe.
Trek Fuel Ex 7/8/9? [url= http://www.rutlandcycling.com/39882/Trek-Fuel-EX-8-2012---Full-Suspension-Mountain-Bike---Black.html ]The 8 seems like a bargain this year.[/url]
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[url= http://www.bikescene.co.uk/Specialized-Camber-Pro-Frame-4523-92-0.html ]Any of the Bikescene frames?[/url]
It's a shame you said no ST4, as they're doing them for £699 🙂
I wanted a similar thing to you, a good all rounder that's light & fast enough for XC but has some down hill ability (as I'm lacking in it). Went for an EX8, really enjoying it. There are loads of good bikes for that sort of cash but it's a decent bike. Has a 68deg head angle these days too so fairly slack.
Giant Trance X. Or Anthem X if you want to go a bit more XC.
Canyon Nerve XC
Boardman FS Team/Pro
Commencal Super 4
Rose Jabba Wood.
Why not just get a Camber?? some stores are doing the expert for £1,800 ordered mine from Lesuirelakesbikes last week for that price, still waiting delivery, any day now.
2nd hand Turner Flux
Flux doesn't really seem to fit the bill, I don't want to go all MBR and assume you can know a bike from the spec sheet but Turner are quoting a 70 degree head angle with a 110mm fork... Bandit and Trance seem to want more fork. Boardman FS Team is a lovely bike but feels a wee bit more xc than I'm after (this is as much about feel/attitude as it is about actual performance I reckon)
TBH the Camber's the main contender, they're easily available and they're cheap... But just wanting to figure out what else is in the same ballpark. Frinstance I'd totally overlooked the EX and the Super 4.
So cheers folks!
ASR5? Slack, short travel fun thing, isn't it?
Did a demo day with the Freeborn team a few months ago. Bikes ranged from XC (epics), trail (stumpy, davinci dixons, elsworths etc) to some DHs. Opinions were very divided between the XC lovers and the rest. Really clear preferences, exept for one bike. Everyone loved the Camber! I had imagined it as a poor mans stumpy but actually found it far more fun than the stumpy! Not as good a climber as the epic (by some distance) but a hoot on the singletrack!
May I suggest a Camber...? 🙂 Mine's superb - and I wanted just what you're looking for, I think. I love the ride of the 456 and have had a number of them over the years, paired with a Superlight, Anthem X and a few other short travel full sussers, but the Camber ticks all the boxes. Sensibly slack angles (it seems noticeably longer than the Anthem X) a good weight, what feels like just the right amount of travel for most riding situations and really sweet handling.
I bought a 2011 Pro, but if you can land a 2012 one, I think you get a bolt through rear on it? I kept the XTR / SRAM carbon 2x10 drivetrain, but ported my SLX brakes, Thomson kit, short stem, wide bars and Hope Pro2 / 719 wheels over. It just works.
On the large, there's just enough room under the shock to get a full size bottle, but you have to be a little careful with the ProPedal lever.
For the money, it's a steal. [url= http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/productDetails.asp?productID=52395&categoryID=1237 ]CycleStore has the 2012 Expert[/url] for £1800. By the looks of it, there's also potentially 4% back via TopCashBack too. If you don't know about it, here's [url= http://www.topcashback.co.uk/ref/gonetothehills ]my referral kickback linky[/url]...
Like I say - I'd not bother with anything more boutique, different or whatever. It just works and works really well. PS: I don't have a 456 at the moment 🙁
Rocky Mountain Element MSL?
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Orange 5
That Rocky Mountain isn't very slack looking
I have an RZ120 and love it...ride it with 140 forks and it is plenty slack. Suspension action probably not as good as a giant maestro bike (what is.... they're awesome?) but giant sizing I find weird and a medium was tiny and the large like a gate. I ride an M/L giant roadbike and wish they did that size for mountain bikes. I have a large RZ120 and it just feels right. That was what swung me over to it and it being a bit slacker than a giant trance.
Just get a Camber Expert. I've got one and love it.
Hard to see past the Spesh, especially considering the somewhat hard to believe warranty thing they have going on, but how about a Ghost AMR 5700?
Jimjam on here has one and raves about it's all round brilliance and after following him up and down some little hills the other day, I can see why. Climbs like a mountain goat and not too shabby going down either. Similar price to the Camber too with a better spec.
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Re cambers... There's a bit of mixed information on the headsets, some say it's fully integrated, some semi-integrated. Some think it's changed year on year. Closeup pics I've seen look like semis, but can't be sure, anyone know the correct answer?
The Ghost looks liike it'd do the job too but again, not many out there to buy used... It's on The List now though.
I'd rather have a camber than any other suggestion so far for what riding you've described
NW, didn't realise you were looking second hand.
Just so happens his is for sale (and is actually the [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/fs-2012-ghost-amr-5900 ]]5900[/url])...
I hardly buy anything new 
Basically I'm looking for a frame, possibly forks... I'll shoot the 456 through the head and steal its organs. But with the price of a full Camber I could buy one and sell all the bits and still come out well for the frame. I think for that Ghost it'd probably not be so easy. But cheers though! If I was out for a full bike it'd definately be in with a look.
No bother NW.
😉GW - MemberI'd rather have a unicycle with no saddle than any other suggestion so far for what riding you've described
😯
Right, bought a camber pro! Cheers folks.
Good choice, sure you'll be happy with it.
For the record I've got a 456 and a Camber, which I'm very pleased with and suits the type of riding I do perfectly. Tis good fun too 🙂
Cheers... On paper it looks great and I had a wee go on one which wasn't really enough to learn it, but was enough to convince me it's at least in the right ballpark. This one should be a good match anyway, the drivetrain on the 456 is pretty clapped out and this comes with nice 10-speed stuff, everything else i can swap over, just wind my Revs down...
Just need to get some stuff sold now!
Theres a medium 2010 Blur in Pearce Cycles in Ludlow ,for 1900 quid.
Great choice Northwind - exactly what I did (without the execution of a lovely 456, I hasten to add). Actually, I kept the Fox forks too, and they've been rather nice. I'm sure you'll be seriously pleased with it.
Talking of Spesh's warranty, a neighbour of mine, who's new to cycling but getting quite seriously into road riding was out on his old Allez with local chain gang a few weeks ago and to cut a long story short, the driveside chainstay snapped. He talked to me about a couple of choices for new winter frames, not realising the potential support from Specialized. Anyway - it's now three weeks down the line and he called me over this morning to show off his shiny 2012 Allez frame, with all the bits fitted from his old frame free of charge. I'd say his old bike was at least 8 years old, maybe more. No quibbles, all done willingly through his local dealer.
Understandably, when he comes to swap out his posh Pinarello, it'll be for a posh Specialized, the rest of the lads in the road club are impressed and the good feeling just continues. I've never had a Specialized break on me, but at least I know that if one does... Match that with some of the stories you hear of some of the other brands out there if you will.
I'm impressed at going from "vaguely considering" to "bought a camber pro" in less than a day. Takes me MONTHS of dithering.
To be fair I've been vaguely considering it for about 2 months 😉 Found a nice Pro at the right price just now so decided what the heck.
Curious - did you consider the yeti? 125 travel, nice and slack?
Aye, it was definately in with a look, but largely came down to price and availability (and the fact that it'd absolutely have to be turquoise).
There was a cheap white one at Royles a while back, it very nearly replaced my Soul. Kind of glad it didn't.
Euro how about a Ghost AMR 5700?Jimjam on here has one and raves about it's all round brilliance and after following him up and down some little hills the other day, I can see why.
Yes, that's true I will happily rave all day about how good my Ghost is. It's a bloody ripper of a bike and punches way above it's weight in every way.
Little red bike arrived today... Just gave it a very quick pedal around as some of the kit's as-new and is coming off before I ruin it. Seems very nice indeed, feels at home straight away. Does feel a little bit small, but we'll see how that plays out, and I wish it had a proper headset as I like fannying around with head angles. But still, not going to complain too much 😉
The geo is spot on. You'll be fine. However, the rear suspension is very good so possibly think about fork internal upgrades and maybe adding 10mm to the fork travel. The stock models I've ridden could have definetly done with a better fork.
It's got a nice new F120RL on it... But apart from the drivetrain I'm going to fit all my nicely smashed up old stuff to it, wind the Revs down to 120mm so there's a bit of room to play around there, fire in my Traversee wheels and the gravity dropper... Sorted.
Ah but first I need to spend an entire evening in the garage with the hairdryer obsessively helitaping it. Best bit!