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Telling us 32” wheels offer more choice whilst removing 27.5 for small sizes?!
‘Releasing’ a product/sending a load out to influencers, but then don’t have any stock for people to actually buy.
Stop changing anything that can be changed just because you want to make more money.
although, to be fair, that is not unique to the bike industry.
Stop using stupid ****ing names for tyre casings and compounds. Light, medium and heavy for the casing. Soft, medium and hard for the compounds.
Can't disagree more about carbon. A carbon frame is both lighter and easier to repair than an aluminium one, and IME less likely to need a repair in the first place. But carbon rims are the opposite - many times the price of an aluminium rim and almost guaranteed to fail.
Personally, I'd say massive rear mechs and tyres over 1kg need to stop. As do brands making single component ranges that do all genres of riding - expecting a GX crank to be light enough for XC and strong enough for Enduro, or having one front triangle do several travel iterations, means you have a compromised product.
I think you mean "Essentially using hot glue to not keep cycling apparel in place" cos in my experience silicon grippers never, er, grip.
1kg need to stop
You don't need to buy the tyres that aren't designed for you. I'm happy with a heavier tyre on the enduro bike as it means I don't destroy them. I still have the choice to put a trail tyre on the trail bike for easy singletrack riding.
You're wrong about Torx bolts. Buy better quality tools and use them correctly. FYI, Park is not a quality tool brand...
Yes, it's you, and the other hamfisted gibbons.Is it just me, or are torx bolts more prone to rounding out than Allen key bolts?
Nod, Nod, Nod... Torx, Shake head. It's a pain having mixed bolts on the bike but most multitools come with a T25.
And maybe add electronic shifting. I have it one bike as I really wanted to try it. It's good, mostly great but when it inevitably breaks (I'm looking at you massive SRAM mech), I'll be going back to good old XT mechanical.
Or, Presta valves. I know there on many on here who've never bent one, but for us mechanical kltuz's - can we have a more klutz appropriate solution (that doesn't cost a million quid...)
As long as they only use one size of torx, across the whole bike, it's fine with me.
expecting a GX crank to be light enough for XC and strong enough for Enduro
The problem with this, is some riders will put their XC bike through far more abuse and strain than others will ever put their Enduro bike through. Components tough enough for everything reduces complaints about a few breakages (which in the internet age can seriously damage a brand's reputation).
Daring to put an item of clothing out there thats a bit different to the norm... Apparently.
Daring to put an item of clothing out there thats a bit different to the norm... Apparently.
Across multiple threads now?
This poses a question for me:
Is it going to be more fun or effort to keep you on the hook a bit longer?
I reckon it's not going to be worth the effort, so you've won the forum for today.
👏
Carbon rims are just daft and Silicone grippers are a wonderful invention - try using knee pads without them and they'll be around your ankles in minutes. I quite like Torx bolts, any damaging of mine has been through not identifying them as Torx and mangling them with a hex.
You're right about through stem shit and chainstay mounted callipers though. Anything coming back from the evolution in road bikes is going to be bollox and should stay there. MTBs dragged them along and they're now dragging us back.
I was a metal frame enthusiast too, but I have just replaced an alu-framed enduro bike with a (low-priced SH) carbon one - and I have to reluctantly admit it's a big improvement for me.
I believe that there's a much bigger profit margin on carbon bikes, so perhaps what the bike industry really needs to stop doing is seeing them as a cash cow?
Is there a similar mark-up on carbon rims? For now I reckon most of us who pay for our own rims will stick with aluminium anyway.
If you want to ban a frame material Ti is the low hanging fruit. Expensive, high hassle and energy to build for no point bar fashion points
Cause we recycle our titanium obvs....
The best bikes I've ever owned have been carbon. And the big differentiator has been comfort rather than weight.
Telling us 32” wheels offer more choice whilst removing 27.5 for small sizes?!
I hadn't even clocked it was Ben who posted this, but hells yes. 32" is not going to be a new standard, stop pretending it will be/ trying to create yet another "standard" that forces everyone to replace their entire bike/ parts collection
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With you on the pointless helmet peaks, and exactly same manufacturer; I bought a Specialized helmet with a large peak specifically for commuting as large sections of my commute in either direction had the sun in my eyes. The Specialized peak was literally 100% useless.
The Fox helmet I have OTOH, is brilliant, so I suspect it'll be discontinued six months before I decide to replace it, and due to the actually functional peak, people will snap it up inflating the price of any remaining stock.
That's it. Discontinuing product lines that actually work well for those on smaller budgets because they're not in line with the latest & greatest.
You're wrong about Torx bolts. Buy better quality tools and use them correctly. FYI, Park is not a quality tool brand...
Torx is ......... divisive. Fundamentally it'll strip the tool before it strips the bolt, rather than the other way around. And I hate how loose the interface on some fastens feel, the suspension mount on my motorbike are great big 1/2" 8.8 bolts, and the T45 bit feels very precarious in there. I know it's designed like that, it's original USP was that it could be driven in at an angle, but it still feels completely wrong. IT actually works/feels much better with a proper ratchet set and bits where you can push the bit in with one hand and apply torque with the other. With keys the 'bit' tends to fall over at an angle when you turn it.
So on the one hand if you mash the tool you've still got a 2nd chance. On the other hand a similarly sized hex would not have slipped in the first place and if the bolt is stuck then trashing several tools before taking the grinder to it isn't any better than rounding it off and taking the grinder to it.
Personally, I'd say massive rear mechs and tyres over 1kg need to stop. As do brands making single component ranges that do all genres of riding - expecting a GX crank to be light enough for XC and strong enough for Enduro, or having one front triangle do several travel iterations, means you have a compromised product.
There's a commercial logic to it though.
Say you're a big brand and need to produce low, mid and high tier component ranges. Not a niche company that only makes high end components.
If you make just those three, then your R&D budget only needs splitting 3 ways (probably skewed tot he top end). If you need to make XC, Enduro and DH versions now your top end budget is split 3 ways and the lowest tier budget barely covers the graphic designers crayons. So it very much depends whether spending 3x more on the top end R&D results in a crank that isn't any heavier than the XC version or weaker than the DH version you would have developed.
When the fashion was towards lighter bikes, plenty of DH riders were running XT cranks. And I remember a race report in Dirt where Sam Hill bent his Truvative cranks every single run of the weekend. Srams DH cranks weren't as strong as Shimano's 'XC' offering! The light/cheep/strong mantra is still true, but you can make it cheaper just by economies of scale.
6mm front axle, 5mm rear axle- who signed that nonsense off.
I have an 8 on the rear of one bike! Most multitools don't have an 8!
I remember the days when pretty much everything was a 5mm hex bolt, then they started sneaking in 4mm ones, then it all went to shit.
It's not even sensible.
Tiny, barely adequate 4mm bolts on a stem to save weight, then things like brake levers get 5mm bolts that barely need to be finger tight. Or worse, a mix of 4 and 5 on the same stem! Component brands really should have standardized on 5mm for everything on the bars then just made the brake/shifter/dropper clamp molts from aluminum.
Stop using stupid ****ing names for tyre casings and compounds. Light, medium and heavy for the casing. Soft, medium and hard for the compounds
Same goes for other components like suspension and saddles - just call them "good" , "better" , "best" , "pointlessly expensive but in our range because someone will buy it". For suspension I'm familiar with the RS naming and just CBA to try to understand Fox etc. Also looking for a new saddle and some come in different variants of the same shape but with small differences - just makes it harder to work out what you actually want.
What a weird article. Says that carbon frames are shit and carbon wheels are great. Absolute garbage on both counts
Most multitools don't have an 8!Old ones do, from the days your crank was held on by an 8mm hex.
I remember the days when pretty much everything was a 5mm hex bolt,
Ahhh, the young. My first MTB still had 8mm nut/bolts to pinch the cables and 14mm to clamp the saddle rails IIRC. Stem was still an expander, 6mm hex.
First *road* bike was about 50% imperial and 50% metric... needed something like 9 and 11/16th" cone spanners and a 14mm bolt to hold the crank on. Once i'd removed the 1/2" cotter held on with a 5/16 nut, then the 1/2" bolt to adjust the expander wedge in the stem, and the 32mm nuts for the headset too... ah. Such joy.
As long as they only use one size of torx, across the whole bike, it's fine with me.
BMX pretty much standardised the 5mm (I think, maybe 6mm) allen key for the whole bike a long time ago. I wonder if it lasted? Probably, because BMX is smarter than this side of the bike industry. Simplify and do simple well. I wish more BMX people/brands would get into rigid 29er design.
Chainstay mounted brakes .. new ISO tests will be helping get rid of those, or at least encoraging them back to a more sensible place for any bike that doesn't use racks and guards (edit, suspension bikes get a pass if they have pivots there). And even if you do use racks and guards, just adapt them to fit around a better frame / brake layout. Priorities.
Car industry aping
All these ‘Works’ bikes. Or eebs with stronger motors in the top tier models. Feels very Beemer M Series. Naff.
+100. And bike brands or events teaming up with car companies. F the car industry.
Is there a similar mark-up on carbon rims? For now I reckon most of us who pay for our own rims will stick with aluminium anyway.
High Quality carbon rims are available from reputable Chinese OEM's for $150. A lot of what you're paying for from a Western brand is the warranty support when you smash it on a rock (apart from DT Swiss). Carbon rims definitely make sense on a road bike but I'll stick with aluminium for mountain biking.
"and just CBA to try to understand Fox etc"
Is Rhythm, Performance, Performance Elite and Factory really that difficult to get ones head around?!
I would agree that Torx bolts need to get in the sea - they're a PITA compared to a (decent) allen key/head. Star fangled nuts are barbaric too, while saddle rail clamps are the devil's work.
Fox's fork line-up is ridiculously easy to understand compared to the array of different forks that RS offer.
I can have a Lyrik with various levels of damping poshness (which they keep changing the names of), or a Yari which uses the same chassis and has more basic damping... but hang on, now they do a Psylo, where does that sit? And there's a 35 as well - that looks pretty similar but I've no idea what's inside it.
I'm not particularly a Fox fan, but at least they don't make a "bad" fork. Just got a secondhand bike with a 38 Performance and it's comparable to the Zeb Ultimate I was used to riding.
A lot of what you're paying for from a Western brand is the warranty support when you smash it on a rock (apart from DT Swiss). Carbon rims
Was about to give a hearty "amen" to that, but then realised you might be saying something different to what I thought you were saying...
Anyway, the DTSwiss warranty on carbon rims is indeed a joke
Yes, it's you, and the other hamfisted gibbons.Is it just me, or are torx bolts more prone to rounding out than Allen key bolts?
Will nobody think of us hamfisted gibbons? I much prefer Allen bolts, but then I’m a klutz with cheap tools.
… on the other hand I always use Pesta valves, and I’ve never yet bent one.
Bikes are brilliant. Bikes today are brillianter than bikes from even a few years ago. Ebikes in particular are getting brillianter and brillianter.
I'd like the bike industry to carry on doing what it's doing please, because as far as I can see it's doing a brilliant job.
Needing to buy an extra shed for tools. Because there is a ridiculously diverse set of tools needed for essentially the same part and sometimes the same part and manufacturer. It’s annoying!
… on the other hand I always use Pesta valves, and I’ve never yet bent one.
It's a design that made sense from 1890 to 1990, but as soon as rims grew wider than 21mm it really should have been ditched.
The trouble with arguing " I’ve never yet bent one" is that when you do, it'll be when you get a puncture miles from anywhere and because you were so sure of your own superiority in not bending them, you probably didn't take a spare.
Rhythm, Performance, Performance Elite and Factory
But you kinda see the point. What part of a fork/ shock used for MTBing conveys "rhythm" to you? Surely you want the opposite of rhythmic suspension - you want "pillow" suspension
This reminded me of a Youtube review of a Furch guitar. (A Furch Yellow G-CR* iirc). The reviewer complained that he couldn't understand Furch's naming convention. The models range, from bottom to top, Violet, Blue, Green, Yellow, Red, Rainbow. Fairly straightforward if you know your rainbow, I'd have thought, and much nicer than Furch 1,2,3, 4** , or Furch Good, Better, Best.
In terms of Fox, how difficult is it remember that factory is Best, Elite, is Almost Best, and then, if you really need to remember this stuff, you have two models to memorise?
*G-CR is Grand Auditorium (the size), Cedar and Rosewood (the woods that it's built out of.) Extremely easy to work out. D-CM would be Dreadnought, Cedar, Mahogany, etc.
** Is 1 the best or worst?
on the other hand I always use Pesta valves, and I’ve never yet bent one.
On the other hand I always use Presta valves and have bent them, snapped them, seized them up, ripped the head off in a pump. My main bike currently has a slightly bent and leaking valve. If I wasn't so lazy I'd replace it, but you know, it takes the occasional pump up and all is fine.
I've broken way more carbon frames than carbon rims... and all four of my current bikes have carbon rims, they are ruddy ace, and direct from Ch they are not even expensive anymore. My previous FS frame to my current carbon one was Alu... the Alu one was lighter for a similar design and much nicer to ride as the carbon one is overbuilt and is so stiff it has the feel of riding a girder.
Convince me I'm wrong.
So many things many already stated
one frame to do everything from short travel to enduro is clearly going to be so compromised to be useless
6mm front axle 5mm rear
pretending to be green. There is nothing green about riding bikes in the woods for fun
why are bikes getting so heavy, do bike companies not employ engineers anymore
SRAM first generation of any product will be bobbins as thy are still test product
The number of bikes that get given to YouTubers that the customer will be f7nding and then anyone expecting us to think they are independent and no5 just part of the marketing strategy
'.. the Alu one was lighter for a similar design and much nicer to ride as the carbon one is overbuilt and is so stiff it has the feel of riding a girder.'
That is the exact opposite of my experience with hardtails. It is not possible to build a compliant Al seatstay so they're a harsh ride and that's that
I'd definitely like to see a move away from Presta valves for tubeless.
Nothing else really bothers me that much as it's easy to avoid anything I don't like.
Proprietary accessories.
Now I don't necessarily mind proprietary stuff but if you are selling a bike that ONLY accepts your design of computer mount, light mount, mudguard, rack etc, have the decency to actually supply these parts with the bike.
Or have them as tickbox add-ons at point of sale but critically, make sure they're in stock!
It's no good selling a bike but then having half the stuff you actually need to ride it properly as not in stock.
Making bikes with too low stack.
You're wrong about Torx bolts. Buy better quality tools and use them correctly. FYI, Park is not a quality tool brand...
i think one of the issues is that it’s easier to use the wrong size tool on a torx. The size down will usually work but wrecking the bolt. And I find it harder to muster the correct sized by eye than hex.
anyway. I’m with Ben. Worst of all is manufacturers who mix the types on the same part
just batteries on everything
maybe its a gripe about consumerism more widely, im not being a velopurist or anything, shifting, droppers, motors! it all just seems so wasteful, phones, great, lights, fine even a gps, but the financial and environmental costs just seem nuts
and breath
Can I go for "stop talking about off-road gravel bike design" even though this is an MTB site? It's a pro-MTB post.
A drop bar bike is not an optimised off-road bike. Stop promising something that can't be done. It's a mixed-terrain bike, CX, whatever. It might go off-road without falling apart but if it's got drop bars and isn't a bad road bike, as a gravel bike should have/be, it's just never going to be a great off-road bike.
All the things that promise better off-road performance make it worse on road, that's just the differences between the 2 opposites of riding terrain/fit/handling. If it has drop bars, flared or not, it should be because drops are for the benefit of road riding (or for smooth, fast gravel tracks).
If you want a good off-road bike and you're going to be on varying off-road terrian most of the time - get an MTB/ATB.
PS I love gravel bikes, don't get me wrong. I just think the bike industry and some brands sell people a false promise.
any damaging of mine has been through not identifying them as Torx and mangling them with a hex.
I suggest those stick on +2 magnifying things for the bottom half of your riding glasses so you can see what you're doing when making repairs out on the trail. 🙂
Similar to Gowerboy, cutting the steerer short on display bikes in shops. Just leave the thing uncut till someone buys it.
Trying to sell me bikes with SRAM on, I won't buy it unless it's discounted enough to replace the group with Shimano when the SRAM gets put in the bin at a year old. On a similar theme: why can't they agree on a cassette body standard like they did for everything up to 11s? And would wheel manufacturers kindly make both types of cassette body available after market for more than a few months.
But on the whole I agree with Kramer, current bikes are ace, theough the ones with cables/hoses sprouting from the stem a little less so..
Quoting bike weights without pedals. It would more useful to quote bike weight without tyres. They have much more influence on all up weight.
…is there any point in quoting bike weights at all now!? Most of them weigh more than a Honda 90 Stepthrough anyway! 🤣
It was different when we were all trying to get to 20lbs or under!
Making bikes with too low stack.
It's very easy to raise the bars. The opposite is basically impossible without a long stem.
I am not a fussy person, I’ll buy what works and or is on sale, but that stem disgusts me.
Making bikes with too low stack.
It's very easy to raise the bars. The opposite is basically impossible without a long stem.
It’s easy up to a point, but there are limits to it. As I get older, my bars are getting higher and I write off may potential drop bar bikes due to low stack. I also see a load of people riding around with bars that are probably lower than ideal for them.
Thru-headset anything
I'm afraid to say I bought a bike with hoses through. Hate it but buying an SL eBike, tradeoffs had to be made and I chose that so I could have other things I cared more about.
Torx bolts
Manufacturers using poor quality bolts? (material and tolerances)
Disc mounts on chainstays
Mondraker Neat has this. With the standard brakes on some spec levels, you can't undo the brake pad retention bolt without removing the caliper.
Silicone grippers
Worst blister I ever had - crack developed in Sealskinz socks with Hydrostop, rubbed the back of my calf on a ride, only realised when I took them off.
Worst blister I ever had - crack developed in Sealskinz socks with Hydrostop, rubbed the back of my calf on a ride, only realised when I took them off.
Yeah, my skin reacts badly to certain grippers. At various times I've had the words Endura, MT500 and Gore written into my thighs.
Torx bolts on seatpost heads are bloody annoying, as you can't spin them up to low torque with a ball end, so it takes ages.
The other issue with torx, is that generally three size tools fit on bolt! So many times I've thought 'pretty sure that is the right size but I'll try the next size up to be sure', and yes it's the next size up. Might explain the rounding off issues that some people have.
That pasta eating stem is one of the dumbest looking things I've seen on a bike, and I would immediately strike whatever brand that is (Focus?) off any future purchase list as a result!
Trying to sell me bikes with SRAM on, I won't buy it unless it's discounted enough to replace the group with Shimano when the SRAM gets put in the bin at a year old.The few i've had i just swap while the SRAM kit is still "new take off" and can be sold for more than an equivalent shimano set up.
Why can you never buy a bike with Rockshox suspension but shimano drive train? Infect why do most bikes come with sram drive trains whatever the suspension. Presumably sram sell it dir5 cheap to oem knowing it will fall apart and the can fleece the customer on replacements
Stop giving influencers free stuff. You never get an honest review, and nobody wears a helmet to the coffee shop, cafe, toilet, shower. Take the bloody thing off you disrespectful idiot. Yes that free £15k bike must be nice but you didn't pay for it, nor are you doing the fixing or replacing the worn bits.
The few i've had i just swap while the SRAM kit is still "new take off" and can be sold for more than an equivalent shimano set up.
This is the way.
Bike industry: stop up-speccing the rear mech on new bikes. Yes I know it's the obvious bit that folk will be drawn to look at, but I'd much rather that money was spent on a higher spec shifter than the rear mech. Touch points matter more than a blingier rear mech.
Torx bolts on seatpost heads are bloody annoying, as you can't spin them up to low torque with a ball end, so it takes ages.
You can, as I said above, torx is designed to wiggle like a ball end. The sloppy fit is in fact a deliberate feature, not a bug!
There's also a "Torx plus" which is similar but the points are rounded off (and therefore wider) and has a 0deg drive angle (no wobble). You can use a torx bit in torx-plus fasteners, but not vice versa. It's not been universally taken up because while it tends to cam out less often and tools wear out slower, the original torx is designed to engage while moving, so if you're screwing together a hundred Dyson hoovers an hour in a far eastern factory you don't need to be so accurate with when you press the button on your electric screwdriver.
I've only ever seen torx plus on really expensive kit like camera lenses, or where it's just trying to feel expensive (IT components).
Why can you never buy a bike with Rockshox suspension but shimano drive train? Infect why do most bikes come with sram drive trains whatever the suspension. Presumably sram sell it dir5 cheap to oem knowing it will fall apart and the can fleece the customer on replacements
A way back someone posted up the (large scale) OEM price for SRAM brakes, it was something ludicrous like £5. And yes they offered discounts if you bought a SRAM groupset, RS fork, Truvative bars/stem, reverb post etc. Which is why you tend to see Shimano + fox, if they don't spec a SRAM drivetrain then they get a worse price, so the spec ends up looking worse than their competitors.
Bottle cages with hard to reach bolts. I have a bottle cage with a built in multi tool. It is so awkward to get to the bolts that it is impossible to do with the supplied multi tool.
Bike industry: stop up-speccing the rear mech on new bikes. Yes I know it's the obvious bit that folk will be drawn to look at, but I'd much rather that money was spent on a higher spec shifter than the rear mech. Touch points matter more than a blingier rear mech.
in days of yore, higher spec mechs were superior to lower spec and the shifter was pretty much the same unit rebadged, once you got to a certain level anyway. nice mechs lasted longer. however this isn't really true anymore, trickle down tech perhaps, but mechs don't seem to be as fragile as they were. maybe with the advent of more gears (10+) the smaller shifts = smaller movements per shift and less wear, or maybe just better quality for lower cost wear parts.
on that though, there is a difference shifting XTR to SLX, but is there a difference from GX to XO or XX?
re the number of tools/bolts, I remember once replacing a front shimano brake and rotor.
From memory I think that required:
front axle 6mm
brake bolts 5mm
lever to bar 4mm
pad retention bolt 3mm
hose clamp on fork 2.5mm
release clip to take lever off 2mm
rotor bolts T25
House!