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Views and opinions please.
Having just had a run in with the owner of one who wasn't happy at the way I told him and his out of control hound to **** right off.I would be interested to know where I would stand legally if I had launched it with my right foot.
If the dog was a clear and present danger to your safety then I suppose you could justify kicking it to defend yourself. Otherwise it's animal abuse and you'd be liable to a good kicking yourself such as I administered to the last person I saw beating a defenceless animal.
I'd be kicking the dopey owner before I'd be kicking the dog, unless it was having a nip at me.
Ok the dog was well in front of it's owner and then proceeded to run in front of my bike I braked pretty hard to avoid it as it cut from one side of the path to the next before heading off into the heather and bounding about and I went down , owner caught up eventually and chided me for not riding correctly for the conditions.
As I'm reading now law states dog must be under control or it's an offence.
Two points:
1) Chill the f*** out. You're riding a bike for fun FFS, live and let live.
2) What if it had been a family with a kid? Would you kick a kid for being slow/riding the wrong way?
Kick my dog and expect a Jean Claude roundhouse from me!
My dog has got in the way of a few people on the trails but they waited a few seconds for me to recall him and get him out of their way before they happily carried on.
Similiary when catching slower riders me and the dog have been held up or had to suddenly brake for someone slower than us we encountered on the trail, I didn’t feel the need to kick them and tell them to **** off!
In conclusion calm down and grow up!
Point 1 above.
Good luck reasoning with him! I have never met a pet dog owner whose brain is firing on all thrusters.
Just slow right down whenever you seen one, just not worth the aggro otherwise or the potential harm to the dog if you hit it. The only acceptable time to hit/kick one is if it’s actually attacking.
Que the tough guys I’d beat up the owner then bum his dog.
Sounds like no harm was done the guy was having a nice day out with his dog, it ran in front of you but nothing happened. You got angry.
@thisisnotaspoon did either of those things happen in the text I wrote above? No , end of.
Isn't this just a dog? Where do "so-called trail dogs" come into it?
Anyway, I slow down when dogs are around, because dogs behave like dogs. If they're actually attacking you, fair enough, do what you need to do, but dogs run around.
And even if the owner was committing some sort of offence that doesn't mean you get to kick his dog.
I'd move on.
Doesn't sound like the dog was out of control
I reckon only four pages, as the new forum is a bit dicky, and a fair bit of Internet hardman activity.
Dog came from behind i was going downhill, first I saw it was when it ran past.
Two further points:
1) You can use your bike as a means of transport, especially if you are unfortunate enough to not be able to afford a car,
2) What if an out of control dog knocked your child off their bike and bit them? Would you tell your child to chill the f*** out?
Dog came from behind i was going downhill, first I saw it was when it ran past.
How slow are you!?
It could be a baby robins face next time.......
On the basis of telling a dog to **** off and using the phrase "end of" as an argumentative gambit, I'm in danger of forming a certain opinion here 🙂
@psling If my dog knocked a child off it’s bike and bit them I would expect it to be kicked or whatever needs doing to protect the child. An aggressive dog like that shouldn’t be off it’s lead and not wearing a muzzle.
This dog in question stole his Strava Kom downhill and he was annoyed about it!
If a loose dog ran in front of me and caused me to come off I'd be pretty ****ing angry whatever the circumstances. A trail dog should not be getting under the wheel of other riders otherwise I'd class that as out of control and it shouldn't be on the trails.
Out of interest Op was this on a trail centre?
Yeah, I wonder if it woofed "on yer right" as it bounded by!
This never happened did it.
Strava makes people so angry 😉
seriously though just chill out, It’s a hobby that should be enjoyable and relaxing. Don’t let other people’s actions ruin your enjoyment and don’t be ‘that person’ who think it’s appropriate to hurt an animal. It’s not the dogs fault it’s the owners.
You were riding a bike in a public space and a dog with no concept of your supposed 'trail laws' decides to be in the same place as you.... So yeh, kick it, why not.
I often kick stuff that has the audacity to be where I want to be.... Kids, baby animals, nuns, the elderly.... All selfish gits the lot of them.....
Out of interest Op was this on a trail centre
No top end of wharncliffe wood along the trail that runs through the heather.
Were you terrierfied when it happened?
No need to kick a dog unless it’s actually attacking.
it’s a shame when a dog isn’t under proper control, my experience* is that they love to be trained and they absolutely live to make their owner happy.
telling an animal to **** off may help other people to form an opinion about you though, perhaps it would be better to interact with the owner instead?
*i come from a farm, my experience is mostly limited to collies and springer spaniels, both well known as loving to be trained.
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Psling ISWYDT
This dog in question stole his Strava Kom downhill and he was annoyed about it!
😂
Oh FFS! Quote is getting even more annoying.
"telling an animal to * off may help other people to form an opinion about you though, perhaps it would be better to interact with the owner instead?"
Well, to be fair to the OP, he did. He actually told the owner to * off, not the dog.
The prominence afforded to dogs in our society over the last decade or so really depresses me.
Wish I could keep up with my dog downhill....... or uphill............on the flat.
Were you racing or late for a meeting?
If you are "really" interested I'd have a chat with a solicitor.
I don't think you are.
Last bloke I saw hitting a dog got me asking his son if he did it to him too?
That went down well.
Chill out a bit
Kill them
Kill them all.
In the spirit of the thread, I'd kill you all with extra hot napalm, so there.
On a related note, does anyone know of a good quality, small water pistol? All I can find are really cheap plastic jobs which might fail at just the wrong moment.
I'm thinking of mounting a chilli oil filled one in a holster on my bars so that I can reply to dogs when they are 'saying hello' or 'just being friendly'.
I seem to be having a run of them recently, does my nut in.
last time i rode Cafall there were loads of sheep on the trail. I got over it.
A sharp kick on the nose is usually enough to send them on their way.
The owners are usually too far behind/infront to witness it so you're generally in the clear.
Brave of you to confront the owner, as
so would be worried things would quickly escalate as dog owners tend to be hot headed types who act before thinking.I have never met a pet dog owner whose brain is firing on all thrusters
Kicking dogs, swearing at the owners but it’s dog owners who are hot headed that act before thinking. 🤔
Yeah, trail dogs can be annoying if they interrupt you when at speed. But it's not a really big deal is it? I generally think they're great.
However, there's appropriate places - some ****t brought his collies on the Real Ale Wobble one year - 500 riders going down steep muddy welsh stuff and these two poor dogs were in the middle of a group of people, people falling off left right and centre, nearly ran over them twice.
Dog owners do seem to lower their IQ by a good ten points when taking their dogs out. And if their pet makes someone have to do something that they wouldn't have had to do it's the pet owner's responsibility to apologise - not berate the other person.
Responsible pet ownership necessarily means that you assume responsibility for what your pet does to other people. If your dog jumps out in front of a rider, making them break sharply or scaring them then the correct action to take is to profusely apologise and get control of your animal. Period.
Having said all that. I love seeing dogs out on the trails. They lift spirits because they're clearly having so much fun. 🙂
Yay, we’ve reached the point where we can simply start replacing “dog owners” with “cyclists” and make these opinions look as dumb as they are.
If it was a known and marked red or above trail centre route then I'd be annoyed that a dog was bounding around. Blue and green trail then fair enough as its a family trail with walkers allowed etc, so to be expected.
It's all well and good talking about riding relaxed and just chilling etc, but surely some of the purpose of the marked red+ routes is that you can go like a nutter if you choose and shouldn't expect a dog to be on the trails.
Of course, ride within your ability and be prepared to stop at short notice, but to have to do so because a dog (or a family walking the wrong way up the trail... doh) should not be an expected occurence.
Personally I love most animals and dogs in particular. Do see quite a few around Cannock but they are all well controlled and much faster than me so getting in their way is more of an issue for me
On public bridleways and open land, everybody should respect one another and there are no grounds for complaints if a dog slows you down. It's entitled to be there just as much as you are.
You won't get much sense on here. My view is owners that put their dogs at risk by taking them round busy trail centres are selfish idiots. I nearly crashed on one of the Forest of Dean red runs on a switch back descent when a hound came running straight down the hill straight across the trail. I've also nearly hit a dog at Swinley on one of the red descents. Both on busy Saturday's in summer.
there will be arguement sabout what if small children, wheelchair users or baby robins were on the trail and you obviously we're riding too fast. If you can't have a decent crack at riding fast on a trail centre descent were it really really should be clear. we may as well all ride every where at 5mph
If it’s a trail centre then they shouldn’t be there. If it’s not a specific bike trail then it’s a simple learn to keep your dog under control
It's become a real problem around here - local council spent £1000+ putting up these after over numerous complaints about dogs.
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If your dog is ruining other's fun & being a potential danger by virtue of you letting it off the lead & run round - whose really being selfish? The "only being friendly & chill out line" doesn't really wash. Take responsibility of your pet.
FWIW I've had 7 dogs & was a professional dog trainer.
if its a mountain bike trail then dogs should be on it. Dog should be under control at all times. If the dog is running after bikers then it's not under control and should be kept on a lead.
"Sounds like no harm was done the guy was having a nice day out with his dog, it ran in front of you but nothing happened. You got angry."
The dog caused the OP to come of his bike. I wouldn't call that "nothing happened". I'd be angry and I'm a dog owner dog lover 🐕 🐕.
This isn’t about Dogs at all, it’s just the usual rawr big man people slowing me down should move schtick with a slight twist.
For fun, reimagine the situation with road vehicles and make the dog a cyclist.
Also, reading back through the thread, a lot of people would have a much happier time if they realised that ‘trail centres’ and ‘private race tracks’ aren’t the same thing at all, and that there’s every legal right for there to be a picnic in the middle of a tabletop or pushchair in a berm etc in a public forest even if it is stupidly dangerous from our point of view. Being a ‘bike trail’ doesn’t alter the legal status of a patch of public forest no matter how many signs you put up trying to tell people to stay off them.
Private venues like BPW are where you need to go if you want to go flatout without risk of walkers or whatever.
For fun, reimagine the situation with road vehicles and make the dog a cyclist.
So, for an equivalent, it would be the cyclist jumping off the pavement in front of a car.
Idiot cyclist.
This isn’t about Dogs at all, it’s just the usual rawr big man people slowing me down should move schtick with a slight twist.
Of course it is.
Came up fast behind a Staffy on a downhill run once. I was travelling at a serious rate of knots and I swear the dog was hauling ass as well. He/she turned round and looked at me mid sprint and pulled over to let me past.
Kudos to the dog. Met the owner of the dog a bit further down and congratulated him.
Still makes me smile that dog giving me a glance like, yeah no bother pal on you go.
If there was such a thing as dogtrackworld, there would be a thread on it by Fido,slating a slow mtber for ruining his Strava time.
Maybe. 😉
Or that you cant walk anywhere without stepping on a discarded energy gel wrapper
Section 2 of the Dangerous Dogs Act - a dog must be "under control" at all times in a public place.
/Thread
Says it all.
Yeah, basically that sign says “newsflash, other people exist, so, don’t be a dick”
not a bad motto to live by.
Says it all.
Not really hence why the council felt the need to have the second part of the sign.
I do slow down and watch out for people and dogs when on shared paths. However I have had a couple of emergency brake situations when someones ill trained mutt has run out of the undergrowth right in front of me. Neither of those times I was riding fast since I was passing (or about to pass) its owners.
Trail centre guide for dog owners - dont be a prick and take your creature elsewhere for exercise.
The woods guide for bike riders - dont be a prick and expect other people to also be in the woods.
If you were in Wharncliffe Woods then you are lucky it was only a dog. It's not a trail centre and attracts all sorts. We have come across horses, motorbikes, families, walkers in large groups as well as dog walkers, all using the same paths as riders are. Over the years some bike riders in the woods have earned us all a bad reputation, rightly or wrongly, for been unconsiderate to other users. If it was up to the horse riders we would have be banned from using it a long time ago. It's not so long ago that someone's van was ridden over by a motorbike after they had been upset. Walkers have now started putting obstacles in the paths towards the craggs end to slow the bikes down.
The dog owners that I have chatted with have been considerate in keeping them off the down hill tracks at the bottom of the woods and also on the Greno down hills on the opposite side of the road.
When ever we ride the Wharncliffe side it's always with caution as to who or what will be round the next bend.
Maybe its time to ban bikers from anywhere not specifically for them , only it was another biker letting his dog run amok
Just about to go and check as someone in the pub just mentioned it says no dogs or dogs must be kept on leash. On the gate onto that section.
Does it say bikes are allowed on the section?
You know just for the sake of avoiding hypocrisy.
Were you on a public ROW?
Firstly I cannot condone harming any animal, with the only exception being if it is hurting/attacking someone.
I’m a dog owner and a cyclist and as far as I’m concerned dogs should be under control at all times and the owner is responsible for that dog at all times. I have not come across many dogs that are actually “under control” when off the lead.
If I have read the op’s second post correctly the dog caused him to fall off his bike, As a cyclist i would have been pissed as well. As a dog owner I would be horrified if my dog had caused anyone to have an accident and my only response would of been to apologise profusely not blame the cyclist.
As a cyclist I always try to be curtious to other trail/forest users by slowing down, making a noise to warn that I am coming and giving others a wide birth.
As a a dog owner I always try to be curtious to other trail/forest users by ensuring my dog is on the lead by my side when someone passes or I move to the side of the track to let them pass.
Oh and I live in the Forest of Dean which has a large and varied amount of forest users.
Oh and I live in the Forest of Dean which has a large and varied amount of forest users
fair point, the rest of us live in places that don't have many dogs or bicycles
Bikes ruin a dog walk.
Dogs ruin a bike ride.
Enjoy them separately.
Were you on a public ROW?
A bridleway, lots of horses go down it judging by the tracks , to be honest would a horse have bolted and trampled the dog , cows and sheep often in those fields
What a bunch of Stava loving, dog hating tiny men unt©S 😉
As a cyclist I always try to be curtious to other trail/forest users by slowing down, making a noise to warn that I am coming and giving others a wide birth.As a a dog owner I always try to be curtious to other trail/forest users by ensuring my dog is on the lead by my side when someone passes or I move to the side of the track to let them pass.
In 21st Century Britain, trying is usually not good enough.
Is there a definition of "under control"?
I think if you are riding in public woodland you are sort of siht out luck! Yes it's unfortunate said dog caused you to fall off and I would be gutted and apolagetic if my dog caused that, would it have made a difference if a deer had ran out?
At a trail centre would be a different matter.
Is a dog running through the woods out of control? Arguably if you can't stop if something gets in the way are you out of control?
Guess I'm saying it's not as clear cut as everyone is making out. Think we all have valid points in some ways
would it have made a difference if a deer had ran out?
Yes. One is a wild animal the other is a pet. I would expect any responsible owner to keep the pet under control and so not get in the way of other people. Whether thats just it running up and sticking its muddy paws on someone whilst the owner dribbles out "its only being friendly" or running in front of a bike and causing a crash.
Arguably if you can’t stop if something gets in the way are you out of control?
if said thing is sitting in the middle of the trail then yes. If it dives in front of you even after you slow down and give it space then no.
As a thought experiment. Consider you are cycling past someone on a shared used path.
If I am walking along in a straight line and you hit me then clearly you are being an idiot.
If you try and go past me giving plenty of space but I then dive into your way then clearly I am the idiot.
Short of stopping and pushing the bike there would be no easy way of avoiding the accident and even then you would only minimise the damage caused.
Grow up and chill out you big baby :-).
I believe TJ is the forums resident expert if you need any tips on kicking the crap out of over-friendly miniature poodles.
'In 21st Century Britain, trying is usually not good enough.'
I'd say just trying is a big improvement over quite a lot of people, unfortunately.
Damn, it appears to be Section 3 of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, and a quick Google threw up this, which at least confirms I knew the details if not the section - itr appears to be quite a low threshold
<span style="display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: transparent; color: #5e5f62; font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 22.4px; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">Under section 3 of the Dangerous Dogs Act an owner, or a person in charge of a dog, commits an offence if the dog causes reasonable apprehension to a person that they will be injured, whether or not they actually are injured. Unlike most offences in English law no criminal intent or recklessness is required for liability to arise and a person can therefore be guilty of an offence even if their dog was on a lead and had never behaved in such a way before. </span><b></b><i></i><u></u>
You lot need to lighten up..... Is it that serious? Really?
It was a dog doing what dogs do, it just so happened you were both in the same place at the same time. You and the dog both have an equal amount of right to be there.
It doesn't sound like it was 'out of control', the dog has no concept of paths/routes and was being a dog, they have no intent above primeval instincts.
Look on the bright side, have a laugh about it..... All part of the experience.
I'm am a dog owner.... Mine are slightly ferel but well trained and come to command. I let them run as I KNOW they are obedient and non aggressive. If they came into the path of a bike, on public land, where they have every right to be, then that would be a random and unfortunate occurrence.... Life is full of them.
If you kicked my dog I'd return the favour...
I don't get dogs as pets, in fact I go so far as to say I think a majority of dog owners now leave sh*t lying and allow the dog to leap all over me excitedly. This I don't like. Dogs I like, I just wouldn't have one.
I slow down around them, most seem to take a reaction to bikes, either excitement or fear, and just don't get me rolling along.
The only time I would harm any animal is if I was threatened. Twice I have done - once when one repeatedly attacked a friends I was with dog, once when it was nipping at me even when I got off a bike. Even then there was much bellowing and attempt at scaring pooch off before I went for it.
As others have said, it is irresponsible behaviour of the owner (dogs and bikes don't mix well IMO) but life has bigger issues. Slow down, roll by, move on.
some ****t brought his collies on the Real Ale Wobble one year – 500 riders going down steep muddy welsh stuff and these two poor dogs were in the middle of a group of people, people falling off left right and centre, nearly ran over them twice.
Hope it didn't affect your race result to badly.😚
TBF If you choose to ride in the middle of a big bunch of people that only ever dig a bike out of the shed once a year to do an event that's more about drinking than riding you really can't complain about any kind of standard...
"I KNOW they are obedient and non aggressive."
I'm sure I've heard that before somewhere.
Sort of playing devils advocate I know but it's an interesting debate.
If my dog was running in public woodland where there are no sanctioned trails and it got in a riders way I would be apologetic about the situation and not a dick but I would not consider my dog at fault. It' just an unfortuate accident. Equally I wouldn't consider a dog running in woodland to be out of control.
At an actual trail centre/ official trails I think it's a different matter. Incidently i take my dog riding if I'm just on a bridle way to make her tired but never properly riding. It' almost more an excuse for me to st a couple miles in!