How comfortable are they on proper gravel fireroads? Do you get shaken to bits, or do they have some give in them. Obviously I'm not expecting suspension level comfort, but I have taken my genesis equilibrium on gravel on a few occasions short cutting busy roads, and it is not a comfortable experience at all.
Any stonking deals about?
Will depend on the size of tyres and the pressure you use. So variable.
Going faster helps.
High volume tyres are the thing. I've just gone from 700x35 to 650x47 on 25mm rims and the difference is notable.
no different to a touring bike. been riding those offroad since the 80's.
I've got two sets of wheels, one 700c for tarmac commuting a set of 650b with 2 inch xc tyres on.If you get a frame with good clearance some big fast tyres really help but I found that fit is as important, I've bought a new frame supposedly too small for me but it's way nicer to ride than my old one which I always felt too stretched out on.
My CdA (soon to be for sale ;)) with 40c Nano tyres is pretty smooth on gravel surfaces. Not really on full on rocky stuff, but anything mild off road is quite enjoyable.
Ive went from 700c on the caadx I had to my Salsa Vaya running 650b x 47 byways. Have to say it’s much comfier but the Salsa is also steel so that might be a contributing factor.
Here it is
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a set of 650b with 2 inch xc tyres
Tyre's wider than those I got on my first MTB! 😁
Yes, you get shaken to bits on anything but semi-smooth tracks. I tried an alternative route to work via a canal path that was partially cobbled and quite bumpy. Despite having 42c tyres the ride was not very comfortable. Would need proper MTB tyres/wheels or full suspension to have made the track bearable for every day riding. Relatively smooth tracks they're OK on and pretty fun, but they're not comfortable. Even big tyres on a gravel bike are actually not that big and tyres don't do as good a job at being suspension as suspension is.
Really loving my Slate, so much so it's pretty much all I have ridden in the last year. Despite only having 30mm of travel it's pretty comfortable on light off road stuff, the carbon post help a bit as well.
Same as what Wobbliscott has said IME. A pal on the continent has one of those Slates and he really likes it (he’s proper dyed in the wool mountain biker too).
Ive gone tubeless with 43mm gravelkings on my vaya, amazingly comfy over rough ground. Im sure the extra width helps but tubeless is a revelation!
Tyres as wide as possible.
For long distance comfort I use Big Apples 2.35". They have no tread to talk off, but running them at low pressures means there's plenty grip because the tyre conforms to the road surface.
We’ve gone circle back to the early 90’s then?
My gravel bike was a boneshacker and offered nothing over my retro fleet so I binned it off.
It all depends what comfort you actually need, how long you ride, what type of gravel roads you are riding and what bikes you have used previously.
Even when I rode MTBs they were always rigid and on the gravel roads and easy single track I ride on I am comfortable riding a track bike on 25c tyres. The fire roads are fairly compact gravel so if you stick to the more compacted areas they are not that different to roads (in fact sometimes more comfortable as they are a bit softer)
In very wet and muddy times then the 25c tyres are sketchy but that is a different topic.
Comfort is not something I think about when riding so guess it is not something that bothers me.
Same here for the slate. I run a specialized cobl gobs carbon seat post. That made a huge difference to comfort on top
It depends if you repeatedly chant ‘gravel bike, gravel bike, gravel bike’ to yourself. They then have a wonderful magic carpet like ride quality
If you see them for what they are though you realise you have been duped in to buying the latest hipster +1 niche bike. A road bike with compromise
Like I said up there - some folk need to pedal harder.
Niners MCR at Sea Otter this year should fit the bill.
Yes, yes that’s rear suspension.. can’t see the front suspension set up but sure it’s there somewhere..
As Kerley correctly points out it's possible to ride it on a bike with narrow tyres.
That's what we did in the days before mtb width tyres.
But there's gravel and there's gravel. There are also green roads. The more compliant your tyre, the better the experience, and a bigger volume allows you to cruise unconcernedly over stuff that looks heroic in the Paris Robaix.
A narrow tyre is very limiting once the gravel gets loose and deep or when the road is wet and soft.
Using wide tyres for gravel roads is not new. 2" tyres were a preferred tyre for that purpose before WW1, but they disappeared after war time restrictions.
The British bike industry made special bikes with wide tyres for dirt roads for use in the colonies right up to the 1960s but did not sell them here.
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1960 Rudge with 2" tyres - but not our mtb 26", it uses a 1¾" 571mm rim, so almost 27.5er, and slack HA too. 🙂
Several other UK brands also made colonial bikes with wide tyres, eg Elswick Hopper.
For gravel skinny is doable, but big and fat is better.
BTW if anyone has one of those Rudges lying around, I'd love to get my hands on it, 🙂
A little more detail then, riding the fireroads in the new forest have about a 15mile x 2 of road to get there. I'd like to be doing 50odd miles say 3-4 hour rides. I have done these on my 29er but fancy something a bit quicker on the road sections. The gravel is quite big in places and whilst sizeable on a road bike it' not fun. I'm after a bit of comfort over the road and a bit more speed over the mtb.
Slates look intetesting
I’ve got a cotic escapade with 40c nanos. I Use it in 5he new forest on the fire roads, it’s quick and comfy enough. Go tubeless and ease the tire pressures to somewhere comfy enough for you.
Prefer it than an mtb on fire roads, feels more efficient.
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Big tyres, drop bars, lovely! Tyres are hefty, less hefty 2" slicks are available Marathon Supremes would be on the list. If only they came in cream...
Love this pic, makes we want to piss off exploring for the day. Roads, lanes, grassupthemiddle-tracks, singletrack, beer gardens...
DT78
...The gravel is quite big in places and whilst sizeable on a road bike it’ not fun...
Pop a set of these on your 29er for that purpose. You won't be disappointed
https://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/TYSCGS1RGF/schwalbe-g-one-speed-raceguard-folding-tyre
Yes, yes that’s rear suspension.. can’t see the front suspension set up but sure it’s there somewhere..
Looks like it has one of those inverted RockShox forks (forx?) - the RS-1 I think. Whole thing looks spendy... ENVE Wheels, RS-1 :O
If you see them for what they are though you realise you have been duped in to buying the latest hipster +1 niche bike. A road bike with compromise
Nah a road bike with less compromise 🙂
A bit more space to get bigger tyres in isn't a bad thing, the roads around here aren't exactly the smoothest and if you want to mix it up on the commute being able to ride on stuff other than tarmac without comedy moments/having to pootle.
I think the the gravel bike fits in the middle of the bike spectrum with full suspension mtb one side and flat out Road Racing bikes on the other side.
My god there are some massive pussies on this thread.
That niner has the rockshox rs-1 upside down xc fork.
They're great fun. Get the right frame material and stick to stuff that isn't really boggy and you'll enjoy it on proper fireroad and hard pack. I run 40c tubeless 700c on a steel frame charge plug 3.
It's faster than a mountain bike for the majority of riding. ItsI more comfortable on the potholed roads of Lincolnshire and Rutland than a road bike.
It's not a mountain bike though. I used mine a fair bit for riding totally unsuitable trails. I now reach for the plus bike instead. However if I'm tackling any sort of road distance and likely to jaunt down unpaved cycle routes worhout jumps and big roots, the charge wins out.
I live on the doorstep of Wakerly and Fineshades and Rutland Water. Rutland is perfectly doable on the gravel bike, Wakerly and Fineshades (esp off piste) need Id I'd rather be on the Kona Unit
I have done these on my 29er but fancy something a bit quicker on the road sections
Would a tyre change on the 29er achieve the biggest difference, not drop bars / slight change in geometry?
I use my CXer (rather used to) on the Gravel with some Gravel Grinder 38's from Challenge on it. Pretty much perfect IMO.
Why not just buy a CXer and do the same?
I live in the New Forest (have done for 20 years) so there are probably not many sections of fire road I don't know about. There are no fire roads that cause me any issues on 25c tyres.
The 'illegal' single track sections are a different matter and can be quite challenging with sand, roots and ruts but that just adds to the fun as it is all too easy on an MTB.
Why not just buy a CXer and do the same?
Because CXers have limited tyre clearance and are a bit "racy" on account of being for CX.
30 miles of New Forest tracks & roads at 14.6mph avg on my Camino last night with 650x47 tyres.
Circa 40psi tubeless gives plenty of comfort without affecting rolling resistance too much.
It feels very much like my old ‘90s mtbs did to be honest.
It's a piece of string, which you can probably gather from the answers. It'll be more comfortable than your road bike, but by how much, really depends...
Personally, I think in this country, with the variety of terrain, a bigger tyre is a better choice. And with a big enough tyre, it can be more comfortable than a rigid 26er MTB. We don't have 100s or miles of hardpack dirt roads like I imagine they do in California. A 32c tyre might get you by, but for some real versatility I'd look for something with as much clearance as you can get.
As above I run a Salsa Carbon seatpost on my Vaya, I think they are manufactured by Whiskey for them, and it does make a difference in the comfort level while riding, but as stated above they do have their limitations but I’ve managed gravel and Singletrack on mine. I let some air pressure out for the Singletrack running at around 28-30 psi. I also find for me I can ride straight from the house as opposed to loading up the car for a 1hr journey to a trail centre every time I fancy a run out.
Well I just rolled into work on my 2nd run of my Canyon Grail, the frame flex/forgivness is nice the big tyres also nice for the canal sections and the hardpack, then I got a bit lost hit the roads and was happy not to have MTB acceleration and speed in traffic
then there is the bit where UK roads are shit and it's nice not to have to wince that badly when the pothole ends up bigger than you thought, though I did jump quite a few today. I'm never going to head off and slog round 80km of gravel road here in the UK, Tassie I might have done but for mixing it up and getting around generally it seem like a good compromise.
My eartly mtbs were xc oriented Konas and the like, and now XC oriented smal-travel FS bikes.
My Croix de fer and now Tripster ATR and quite different and have their own attractions based on the different riding position afforded by the drop bars - whch is why I have them.
They turn local loops that are pretty boring on the mtb into interesting and even somewhat technical rides.
A CX bike has different angles and handles differently to the 'gravel' bike which is a bit slacker.
Just did 25k this morning on WTB Nano's at 40psi, Alu frame/fork (Charge Grinduro SS), mix of gravel path, single track with roots, rough wooden bridges and hopping up kerbs.
All was well.
Just to chip in,I found that wider flared bars made things a lot more comfi (on the drops obvs) and go faster 😉
Every type of bike is a compromise, you just need to choose the one that hits the sweet spot for what you intend to ride. When people say ‘ooh, skinny tyres, terrain feels rough’ i hear ‘moderate terrain feels pretty exciting ‘
i agree that the ‘gravel’ tag is just marketing bolx though.
that red/cream singular up above, oooh nice.
Spesh Diverge has 20mm of suss in headset, adds comfort
Spesh Diverge has 20mm of suss in headset, adds comfort
All of them or just the top models? Having dabbled relatively cheaply with my maintenance free SSCX for a year, I am wondering whether to go full fat...
Well my 'gravel bike' is my commuter with a rack and D lock, but it's fine on some tame off road stuff running 32c marathon plus tyres
It's not comfy, I have to raise my bum off the seat for sections, but it's a compromise. I can have good reliability for the road based stuff and debris/glass. I've thought about fitting bigger/softer tyres but then I might have a problem on the road and get punctures. I like my bike being reliable
All of them or just the top models? Having dabbled relatively cheaply with my maintenance free SSCX for a year, I am wondering whether to go full fat…
Comp and up (that's 105 shifters etc with TRP brakes). We have them in this years hire fleet and I'm seriously considering booking one in my size from our end-of-season sale.
The first thing I did to My Kona Rove is swap the tyres for the fattest ones that fit. But the real game changer to what you can ride on it is a dropper.
I've got 38/40c Vittoria Adventure Trail II tyres on my CX / Gravel bike, set up tubeless.
On normal fire roads and gravel tracks it's ace and very fast, introduce some rocks and my 29'er is faster.
All of them or just the top models?
The top aluminium one which is £1500 and all the carbon ones which are more.
lol @Kiwi I remember you telling me you didn't need a dropper up in Trevallyn one day!! Bikes looking good though
So what 35-40 fast tyres for road use?
I've seen the light Mike. I think we all have now. & Trevallyn is pretty flat.
If you see them for what they are though you realise you have been duped in to buying the latest hipster +1 niche bike. A road bike with compromise
Well obviously! Because road bikes are one of the less compromised types of bikes, designed almost entirely to be ridden long distances on smooth tarmac. Riding them for anything else - city riding, hacking through the woods - is a little silly. And MTBs have now become so specialised for their own niche that it’s the same there - I choose not to use my 150mm fs for 40km slogs around the wide tracks of Gower, for instance. Funnily enough, I tend to think that a lot of road bike owners have been duped into the wrong bike because they really aren’t using it for what it’s designed for.
So gravel bikes just cover the middle ground. The word ‘gravel’ doesn’t really cover what they are used for but is adequate. But then ‘Mountain bike’ doesn’t really describe most rides either.
The marketing around 'gravel bikes' is probably a bit different than the actual usage in the UK, but I'm liking that resurgence of bikes that are just made to be versatile on all types of ground.
I love mountain biking, and I love being in the hills. But you spend any time around your average mountain biker and it's all about technical trails and fast descents. Occasionally that's fun, but it makes me sad that people don't just go out because the outdoors are blooming great... A bicycle is a gift that allows you to experience that, and a so-called gravel bike is pretty good at getting you to all the places you want to go with maximum efficiency.
Put flat bars on if you want. Setup your old Kona. Ignore the marketing, it's all the same thing. It's an ATB 🙂
I hardly ever ride mountains on my mountain bike, but I ride gravel quote often on my gravel bike...
Would be quite interesting to see tests with a gravel bike vs a rigid MTB
As said tyre width and pressure helps a lot switched from a true Cx ali frame to a carbon gravel bike with 35mm tubeless and impressed by change in comfort Also use gel pads under tape and a specialized cgr post (luck it fits) also a Ti railed saddle but that might be snakeoil
Moved from riding a cx to link bridleways to roads north of sheffield to extensive network gravel roads north of Melbourne Aus and yep it does hurt sometimes and get a bit beaten up but more rewarding than tarmac for me..... as to marketing hype I'm just liking the choice of bikes and hope it continues
Would be quite interesting to see tests with a gravel bike vs a rigid MTB
What you testing? Really comes down to how you want your bars arranged so fairly personal
gravel roads north of Melbourne Aus and yep it does hurt sometimes and get a bit beaten up but more rewarding than tarmac for me
You get beaten up in car on some of those roads!
Would be quite interesting to see tests with a gravel bike vs a rigid MTB
I have lived in same area for 20 years and used Strava for a long time so have a fair bit of data for rides over same routes MTB, CX and track bike (all single speed fixed).
For rides with combination of road and gravel the fastest bike is the track bike, second is the CX bike, third is the MTB.
For off road sections with roots, ruts, mud it is the MTB.
I'm just back from a 43km loop that some of you might know - Aviemore, Nethy Bridge, Ryvoan, Glenmore. I took the "gravel bike" (OK - it's my tourer with big tyres) and recorded 3 PRs on the way round. I reckon once I can shake off this flu and give it some welly it'll fly on that type of mixed surface.
specialized cgr post
Yeah there actually really nice, I’m surprised don’t seem to hear much about them.
I think the gel pads on bars also make the bars a little thicker which may also give you a better/ more comfortable shape to hold.
I get some arguments that CXer’s are for CX, but they can easily be adapted for Gravel.
Heres mine in Gravel Grider Explorer mode..
If you see them for what they are though you realise you have been duped in to buying the latest hipster +1 niche bike. A road bike with compromise
Been around >10 years, hardly 'latest' anything, simply more popular now the road bike boom is over. People are buying less use-specific bikes. It could be said that road bikes are the limited or compromised design - based on racing needs yet most don't race or ride at 20+mph average in a bunch, skinny tyres don't cope well with anything but fairly smooth tarmac, uncomfortably low position (after 3 hours or 10, depending on the rider and what they ride etc).
I like road bikes but I'm glad I have something else to choose for many of my 'road' rides.
I'm off out now for my maiden voyage on my new Arkose. A bit of tow path, bit of road and a bit of bridleway. Pretty much how I used to ride my MTB in the early 90s.
Been around >10 years, hardly ‘latest’ anything, simply more popular now the road bike boom is over. People are buying less use-specific bikes. It could be said that road bikes are the limited or compromised design – based on racing needs yet most don’t race or ride at 20+mph average in a bunch, skinny tyres don’t cope well with anything but fairly smooth tarmac, uncomfortably low position (after 3 hours or 10, depending on the rider and what they ride etc).
Did you just rephrase my reply (above) into something more readable? 🤣
I have a Surly Crosscheck on Surly Knard tyres. It's a bit leaden on the road, lovely on canal tow paths and Swinley Forest proved a bit much (just not much fun) out the other side.
specialized cgr post
Yeah there actually really nice, I’m surprised don’t seem to hear much about them.
FUGLY!!! I'd rather take a battering in my ass....hang on let me rephrase that...oh never mind.
If you see them for what they are though you realise you have been duped in to buying the latest hipster +1 niche bike. A road bike with compromise
Or you have bought a road bike with more possibilities. Depends what you want.
My first road bikes were steel tourers and we used them for everything - I'm delighted we've got a great choice of all rounders again.
Mrs S has a Specialized AWOL. It rides like a drop bar MTB off road, is an excellent tourer and equally brilliant on holiday or shopping.
It came with a brilliantly designed frame (no overlap on the small) and almost spot on Sora 3*9 gearing.
For most of the the riding we do these days, it's hardly compromised at all.
It was a grand and even has nice wheels as standard.
Not used the roady road bikes for ages apart from the odd mad half hour.
Love my Disc Trucker - reminds me of being a kid again. It's not about being a cyclist, it's just about having fun.
Pop a set of these on your 29er for that purpose. You won’t be disappointedhttps://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/TYSCGS1RGF/schwalbe-g-one-speed-raceguard-folding-tyre <
Fitted my pair of 2.35" G-One yesterday, I'd forgotten just how fast these balloon tyres roll, new PB for getting into work this morning and my best time this year for going directly home without doing Witts Hill reps. They are the same weight as my 38mm Marathon Cross pair, but that extra width and lower pressures encourages you to give it more beans.
Did the Dirty Reiver 130 yesterday - that's what I imagined 'true' gravel to be although I suspect it doesn't exist in too many places in the UK. I rode a Genesis Fugio - steel with carbon fork and 47mm Horizons - it's sold as I road plus bike - don't know how that compares to a true gravel bike.
On the roads which had seen a lot of timber Waggon traffic it was brilliant - the fire roads felt almost as smooth as tarmac. On the looser rougher stuff it was a case of going quicker and things got smoother.
Compare to a few weeks ago, on a similar event in the Peak, where nothing was comfortable. 'Gravel' in some places just means the normal bridleways it would seem. Horses for courses and all that.
On the looser rougher stuff it was a case of going quicker and things got smoother.
Yep - I said as much earlier in this thread.
‘Gravel’ in some places just means the normal bridleways it would seem.
US gravel - the original, just like an average UK B-road
'UK gravel' - a mix of easy MTB trails, rutted-out byways and Sustrans paths
'Euro gravel' - big chunky rocky stuff at 2000m with sections where you truly hate drop bars
: )
Did you just rephrase my reply (above) into something more readable?
Ha.. Sometimes I even reply to a quoted post without even reading posts beyond that one. Nuts isn't it.
jameso
‘Euro gravel’ – big chunky rocky stuff at 2000m with sections where you truly hate drop bars
...and you truly love big volume tyres.
Maybe Euro = Scotland too? 🙂
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Half the fun is pushing and adapting stuff beyond it's original design.
Bikes, old Italian scooters and Citroen 2CV's are even more fun when used in ways unimagined by the original designers.
I used to love dragging a Raleigh tourer over moorland cart tracks as a kid and bodging cowhorns onto gas pipe racers.
Love the fact I can now go out and buy something similar that actually works and wasn't designed by a 12 year old.
Rusty Spanner
Half the fun is pushing and adapting stuff beyond it’s original design...
I used to love dragging a Raleigh tourer over moorland cart tracks as a kid...
Me too. 🙂
1930s rod brake bike on the StrathPuffer track
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Not my best idea - after surviving the descent I promised myself I'd never do that again with rod brakes. 🙂
But never stop doing that sort of stuff...
Epicyclo, if there was a prize for the best picture of a bike so far away from it’s design brief, that ^^ would surely be it!!
Have finally cracked and ordered a new bike, to make the most of the roads, fireroads and trails around where I live and commute.
The OP was asking about good deals - I've ordered a 2017 105 SuperX from Start Cycles. OK, so it comes with CX tyres and gearing, but it's 42% off and I've never had a full carbon bike before.
It was between this and a Grail - disadvantages are the AI rear wheel (but I'll never be in a race where neutral service is a problem), heavy wheels (but solid is good, and they're tubeless ready), and the 25.4mm seatpost (no chance of fitting a dropper, but I'm not that gnarly anyway). Advantages are the adjustability in the bars and stem, compared to the grail, and hopefully the frame.
I've also ordered 50/34 chainrings (same type as the 46/36 fitted so I should be able to mix and go to 46/34 if I need to), an 11-32 cassette and 40mm G-ones to go full gravel.
I'm not sure that this will be easy enough gearing, but unless I go to 1x I can't go smaller than 34 on the front and even then it'd have to be the Si crankset with a 40t - don't think any other cranks will fit the BB30-83 nonsense.
There are also ultegra 11-34 cassettes, but they're much more expensive for 2 teeth more, and the SGS 105 rear mech is only supposed to handle 11-32 although the Trek Checkpoints seem to be all equipped with 11-34 and the same mech, so perhaps it's OK, unless they're doing something with the rear hanger, or fitting a longer B screw.. Anyone know?
