[Closed] There'll be trouble ahead - Swinley Forest content

time to sue them for falling off on the new trails and say 'i never fell off on the old trails'

That's blimmin tragic. So much lovely riding off limits.

(just done on the bike forum)

That's such a shame. I never really got to know all of the stuff that was there, having only been around it once on the STW ride last November or some such. Still, I was massively looking forward to going out there and finding it again.

A lot of the new routes incorporate the old trails away, so only a few sections will be lost. I think something needed to happen as alot of the singletrack was becoming as wide as the M25. Hopefully the new trails will hold up to the number of rider who will be on them now!

so only a few sections will be lost.

Or to put it another way, about 20 miles of nice "natural" signletrack will be lost

Are you sure 20 miles? I ride at Swinley a fair bit and can't think that much is really disappearing.

A lot of the new routes incorporate the old trails away

A single direction cycle trail loop in Swinley Forest starting and finishing at The Look Out Discovery Centre

Is there a single loop or multiple routes?

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/swinley-forest-users-please-read

My friend was telling me that she saw mums with pushchairs on some new singletrack.

Also, an update to say that a phone call was not received from Crown Estate. Civil servants eh.

anyone got a map of the new trail route?

Remember CoedY Brenin when they 'first' opened the doors and only the red Bull route was there. It all ended up being dumbed down from fun and technical for people with ability to smooth and open to allow people with no talent to ride and not fall off. I guess this is the dumbing down on this. I will still park at Crowthorne at my mates house and ride through wherever I need to and across to the A30 etc , regardless of sticking to one route. As for stopping the permit to ride, it was something they never could really control anyway.

Just seen this on the Gorrick site myself. 🙁
To be fair, there's been so much stuff built that this was always likely to happen and I'm not sure the permit scheme was ever really known about widely enough (or adhered to) to make it viable.

I used to ride at Swinley all the time, there's some brilliant singletrack hiding away in there.

Is there a single loop or multiple routes?

A blue loop which goes from the lookout down through stickler & back, then a red loop that takes in seagull, tank traps, labyrinth and some rather nice [edit]looking[/edit] new stuff [edit] which isn't officially open yet and is still being worked on in places[/edit].

There will also be DH/freeride areas on the slopes above the jump track and around the baby maker/axle run, and possibly more developments in the future.

Ride it before you make your mind up whether it's 'ruined' or not.

I had a bit of a scout round last weekend, first time there for 6 months or more, so no idea what had gone on.

Interesting times ahead I think. With the trail starting at the discovery centre I reckon theres a lot of potential for user conflict- [i]everyone[/i] is going to use the loop, I predict, from families with kids on balance bikes and mums on shoppers, through to the fully committed flying along in the big ring using it to access greener pastures.

In summer weekends the place'll probably look like the old A303 on the Friday evening before a bank holiday, albeit with fewer passing places.

Here is a link to the planned trail map:

https://docs.google.com/open?id=1kxZn3LhAacd0qAxCz-OJfweP16zClpJ6FF8R7eap-XZeVKCnhkgSEl2mGNd6

I can understand Gorrick's frustration about this as they spent many hours making the trails what they are/where.

Don't be so defeatest. Fallen trees and debris can be moved, bracken can be cut, wardens can be politely ignored. Keep on keeping on.

Don't forget you've still got Crowthorne Woods & ' Over the wire ' Bagshot Heath , plenty of natural CX & ST there.

Swinley had to be sorted , the sheer weight of riders was destroying the place.

CE could have just decided to ban us all on the grounds of :

Dickheads suing for accident compensation.
The SSI status with the ground nesting birds.
Good old elf'n'saftey with the on going logging works.

Instead we're going to get a half decent all weather loop , the bits so far ridden being pretty bloody good.

Bring it on CE !

Have they sign posted it? The map looks like the routes / laps I'd tend to do anyway around swinley, so with sign posts (I always get lost!) and a one way policy, it might be a great place for a quick blast.

So if Crown Estate Rangers are patrolling to ensure cyclists don't wander, does this mean that dog walkers and pushchairs will receive the same treatment?

Thinking back, Crown Estate did a pretty good PR job of advising Joe Public of the whys and wherefores of their decision. I could be wrong here but they've gone deadly quiet with no updates on progress.

It's because they can innit. 😕

I don't get the moaning. The trails that have been lost include the bottom of 9 yards, which was trashed, and watsons wander, which was less of a trail and more of a 15 foot wide scar through the woods. I've ridden at Swinley for the past 17 years - over half my life - and the place has changed beyond all recognition. It is so much busier now than it used to be and this is only a good thing in my view.

The new trails are all-weather, really good fun, really flowy and fast. The stuff around labyrinth is all being kept. Yes, it's not as roots as it was in places, but the popularity of those woods meant that the status quo was unworkable. I wonder exactly what Gorrick and co wanted that wasn't allowed/taken on board? The new trails are built in the same way and from the same material as the SAG trails, so it can't be that.

I always bought a permit - yes it's not enforceable but that's not really the point. It makes me really cross when people start staging the only reason they'd buy one is if they knew people would be checking - but then again that's how society is going these days. Just do things because it's the right thing to do, people.

GB

That has the feel of a golden age* closing.

Hope I'm mistaken.

Can't say I'm a fan of blatting on to the ranger if there's a dog/walker on the trail etc, as per CG's link up there ^^. The consequence of forced separation will be ghettoisation of MTBs, like this. We're in the minority.

Also it's easy to raise the principle of promoting exercise unhelpfully. What the government want is most people to do a bit, not a few people that already do it to do more. Dumbed down trails are the way to achieve more people doing a bit.

Perhaps it'll find a new happy level in due course.

Apols if any of the above is not helpful, I've ridden and enjoyed Swinley a couple of times but I'm not a local.

(Definition of a 'golden age' - you don't realise you had it until it's gone).

Ride it before you make your mind up whether it's 'ruined' or not.

Pretty chuffed with the bits I've ridden !

Looks interesting! I'll be heading down in April to check it out.
Seems a shame to completely eliminate all the volunteers/groups though.

Does this mean we don't have to pay for a permit? Little confused.

sam - yep, posts at start/end of each trail section. What they don't tell you is how to get back to the start of the section you just rode so you can ride it again though.

CG - one of the next phases of the CE work is to produce sign posted walking routes so the pram pushers and their hounds from hell have somewhere to go. There will always be one or 2 petulant asses on every side of the user community who will insist on doing what they always did because they always did it, but I'd expect the vast majority will just get on with it.

And gee - well said.

ska - there will be a new group of volunteers to maintain and maybe even extend the new trails. A group that hopefully won't require you to be a BOB member.

And as for the 'golden age' - I reckon that was a few years ago for Swinley, when there were more available trails that weren't trashed. IMO the forest has been heading toward this sort of thing since the yellow brick roads started appearing.

Just quickly comparing that Google map to the old Swinley Singletrack map I have saved on here makes it look like the red route contains the Labyrinth and the Tank Traps at least for sure, while the blue route looks like it's kept Stickler.

I'm also vaguely hopeful that the new signposted routes will make it much easier for me to find the really fun stuff in there, unlike previous times I've gone unguided and totally failed to find things.

Don't be so defeatest. Fallen trees and debris can be moved, bracken can be cut, wardens can be politely ignored. Keep on keeping on.

That kind of attitude doesnt really help.

Particularly at Swinley where due to the population density in the area user-conflict is always likely to occur. The net result of said user- conflict usually ends up with MTB'rs getting slung out of a place as we are often viewed as an irritating minority.

By all means be cheeky but dont do it somewhere its going to cause problems.

So if Crown Estate Rangers are patrolling to ensure cyclists don't wander, does this mean that dog walkers and pushchairs will receive the same treatment?

Correct me by all means but: no, because they can go where they like. It's bikes that are being ghettoised.

gee's comments are encouraging.

Story here http://www.getbracknell.co.uk/news/s/2125872_new_swinley_forest_bike_trails_to_stop_insurance_claims

What kind of dickhead would sue the estate after crashing on their bike?
Jeez.

my dog loved the trails at swinley especially the berms! hopefully the new routes will live up to his expectations too 🙂 😉

Can't say I'm a fan of blatting on to the ranger if there's a dog/walker on the trail etc, as per CG's link up there ^^. The consequence of forced separation will be ghettoisation of MTBs, like this. We're in the minority.

Ah, you didn't read it all. I spoke to the Crown Estate office but NOT the Ranger to point out that the signs were too small and were being ignored. Word was spreading that some trails were open and I had concerns about accidents at the weekend.

Actually, what really boils my pi$$ is that mtb'ers are expected to take responsibility for themselves and Joe Public takes none.

I fear that the charm of Swinley will be lost. 🙁

tutgareth - if he likes berms he's gonna be one happy dog. 😉

I think the land owners perspective is clear and, tbh, difficult to argue with.

I think we all liek to think we're a bit 'maverick' and riding on a signposted, surface dressed, route takes us away from that.

Does anyone know when the official opening day is? Just so I know when I can head down and check it out (along with everyone else).

Hope it works out for you locals.

I can see how the liability thing can be a worry for CE.

Having provided waymarked trails and making it plain that deviation from them is 'not permitted', would they still be liable for an injury that happens off the trail? It's hard to see how, otherwise they'd have to fence the whole place in.

i'd heard it was today, but cant confirm that..

Of course we just have to take their word for it that they've been sued.

I think we all liek to think we're a bit 'maverick' and riding on a signposted, surface dressed, route takes us away from that.

Yeah but it's faux really as you recognise. There are parts of the UK that can provide a wilderness experience, but the woods behind Nationwide Bracknell aren't it. (Large as they are).

Of course we just have to take their word for it that they've been sued.

It's plausible though. I doubt they'd lie, they've no reason to.

ok now I am totally confused.....

the new stuff that was being built or or almost ready is being scrapped? and another lone single track is going to be built?

was planning on taking a day off work to ride Swinley

Latest I heard was 28th or 29th March - but maybe not all the new stuff will be fully open.

Whilst searching for this thread on google I found this article, date 19th Feb, which says more or less the same thing. Interesting that they sold everyone on the idea of new trails but were not very forthcoming with the news about the old ones. I guess we should have expected it really, given that even from the start they said the reason for building new trails was that the old ones are 'unmanageable". Personally I'm gutted as I've spent a lot of time up there in the last year and even though I expect the new ones will be fun, its a shame to lose some great trails.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-21499732

Does anyone know when the official opening day is?

The last I heard was that the 28th April was the planned day to open the trials, although the wet weather over the past couple of week might have delayed that.

I don't want to predict doom and gloom until I've been there. I know where my favourite riding is, but unfortunately I live in London and the Lake District isn't somewhere I can get up to regularly. Swinley was good because it was near, fun, and I didn't have to gear up for that 'epic adventure' type of affair that can occur up north.

I'm still hoping that it's going to be the same, just with easier to find trails from now on. I can see how all this uncertainty could not be great with people who have been used to having the run of the place for years though.

With the trail starting at the discovery centre I reckon theres a lot of potential for user conflict- everyone is going to use the loop, I predict, from families with kids on balance bikes and mums on shoppers, through to the fully committed flying along in the big ring using it to access greener pastures.

'T'was ever thus', surely - but at least now they're not spending the first half a mile dodging between dogs on stretchy leads, pushchairs and prams, plus all heading in the same direction (one way loops)

The user conflict in and around the user centre and the first few hundred yards of trails in every direction was ridiculous beforehand.

Luckily I don't live down there anymore, but what we use to love doing was just exploring.

Off the established 'trails' are hundreds of yards (and more) of singletrack that folk just don't use. And this is what I think is the loss.

buzz-lightyear - Member

Don't be so defeatest. Fallen trees and debris can be moved, bracken can be cut, wardens can be politely ignored. Keep on keeping on.

Love this. Fight tha power!

Personally I'm gutted as I've spent a lot of time up there in the last year and even though I expect the new ones will be fun, its a shame to lose some great trails.

Give it some time Ralph, these issues often turn in cycles, the boundaries move one way then the other. It's rarely static.

There's a ' Mega Train ' opening ride on Good Friday posted up. This group are involved with CE , so I think we can take it that's the official opening day.

Alas , it still can't be guaranteed that all trails will be fully opened cus of this shitty weather.

Story here http://www.getbracknell.co.uk/news/s/2125872_new_swinley_forest_bike_trails_to_stop_insurance_claims

What kind of dickhead would sue the estate after crashing on their bike?
Jeez.

I'd say that the chances of stopping insurance claims entirely by putting in a purpose built trail are very low. They might be able to defend them more effectively, but you can't stop numpties from suing you.

Some people are reminiscing about the old off piste trails that might be lost.

Regular riders might agree that it's all been so over ridden & the weather so foul , barely nothing is ridable at the moment , a complete bog.

The new trails will at least give some ' all weather ' options.

Remember , Swinley forest is but a small part of the ridable area.

If you want natural , there's Crowthorne Woods , Bagshot Common , Broadmoor , Sandhurst ect , all without crossing a road !

I'd say that the chances of stopping insurance claims entirely by putting in a purpose built trail are very low. They might be able to defend them more effectively, but you can't stop numpties from suing you.

True, I'd guess tho CE have a pre-prepared defence, they've likely already done it as part of this process. This means the cost of initial, and hopefully usually successful, rebuttal of the ambulance chasers will plummet to a letter.

In which case the ambulance chasers will move on to other low-hanging fruit. They're not in it for the benefit of the injured party, it's a numbers game to them.

[i]In which case the ambulance chasers will move on to other low-hanging fruit[/i]

So next time you overcook it on [i]that[/i] high consequence off camber section and all you can see as you high side the bike is a sea of blokes in suits proffering business cards you know it'll be time to find a new favourite riding spot.

the estate was currently facing a £50,000 out-of-court settlement to an injured rider.

I've mixed feelings about the direction things are taking at Swinley, but ultimately CE have to make some tough choices and I'll be giving them a large helping of benefit of the doubt. If it turns out rubbish, well there are other places to ride.

This means the cost of initial, and hopefully usually successful, rebuttal of the ambulance chasers will plummet to a letter.

If only. I used to work in PI law and the firms that instructed me would never be put off by a strongly-worded letter.

The end of the recoverability of ATE insurance premiums will probably reduce the number of low-value claims massively, not sure whether the same can be said of the the new generation of purpose-built trails.

Does anyone have a good idea how long the new red and blue trails are?

Surely people are missing the main advantage of this initiative.

With nice all weather one way trails we won't have to endure the following threads again:
What tyres for Swinley coz its raining?
I got lost in Swinley last time I went - anyone around to guide me?
What are conditions like in Swinley after the rain yesterday?

On a serious note - this seems like a good thing. One way trails is a great thing for the area and some of the new (open) trails are pretty good. Also they have kept Stickler which is just brilliant.

This what we were all waiting for, and in the circumstances it is not unreasonable. For the masses it is necessary, enforecement has to be seen to be done, but relatively few people rode corkscrew, bombholes, rollercoaster etc. Watson's wander was a rooty bog not a trail.

However as long as there is Gorrick and races at Swinley, there will be sneaky off piste left from the races that can be used by the few.

' Over the wire ' Bagshot Heath

I heard there may be a rideable route through the back of pennyhill, does anyone know? Else where do you normally go, up Maultway or climb over under the pylons?

Also they have kept Stickler which is just brilliant.

Has someone hi-jacked your login Shortcut? I didn't think you could get your big wheels around Stickler?

"its a shame to lose some great trails"

You aren't!

I think there is a lot of precious behavior over all the redevelopment. No need really... It will be fabulous for the sport if more people can access fun trails. Good news.

GB

No more racing in swinley, from what I understand

[quote=theotherjonv said]No more racing in swinley, from what I understand

The Enduro's still on the Gorrick calendar for May.

Just move further North and/or West. There are far better places to ride 😉

As someone who has actually checked out most of the new stuff I can report that this is def a good thing for Swinley. The best old stuff made much better and lots of excellent new stuff built by someone who clearly knows what they're doing.

Unless I'm missing a bigger plan of everyone moaning so it doesn't get used much, I'd recommend stop whinging and get down there.

Email today was written in a negative way 'cos those guys got cut out of the process and are unhappy.

Of course we just have to take their word for it that they've been sued.

It's plausible though. I doubt they'd lie, they've no reason to.

Do you believe everything you've read/been told? 😀

Muppet - the new blue and red will be 15 miles combined.

Which bits are open now, and are they signposted?

I'm taking a group of kids there on Sunday and I haven't been for about a month. Last time most of it seemed to be shut.

As JonV points out, no more racing (at least for now) in Swinley. The Gorrick Enduro is NOT in Swinley this time round, although the website still says it is. It will be hosted at Porridgepot/Windmill Hill (Deepcut).

The creation of the new trails is a good thing for 80% of the people using the forest. The locals who ride it at odd times fo the day, and spent hours learning the random sections and knew the little bits of trail to connect other areas are the ones who will feel let down by the developments. I'm not saying they won't enjoy the new stuff, but the ability to vary your route each time is going to be removed or reduced considerably and that will probably reduce their enjoyment.

Yes, there is plenty of other riding in the local areas, but there have been issues with riding on the MOD land so the risk may be that these areas end up with more riders on them as they seek variety away from a pre-defined loop.

Which bits are open now, and are they signposted?

Officially I think its w9y, stickler, tank traps and the labyrinth area. If you see plastic mesh pushed to one side at the start of a trail that means its still closed but someone who thinks they know better has ridden it anyway. If you see plastic mesh at the end of an apparently open trail then you must immediately repent and strangle one kitten for every time you thought you were enjoying yourself.

[i]Muppet - the new blue and red will be 15 miles combined. [/i]

Well that's the morning sorted, with a late start...

I think riders are worried that the trails will become crowded with perhaps little opportunity for old girls like me to pull over for a fag and a breather.

Absolutely detest anyone on my back wheel, it can be quite intimidating and offputting.

Would be interesting to know what the percentages are of locals and those who travel further afield.

[i]Officially I think its w9y, stickler, tank traps and the labyrinth area.[/i]

Thanks. That lot added to some of the fire roads and Crowthorne should give us plenty of riding. Is it obvious which way round they have to be ridden or are we still going both ways?

Do you believe everything you've read/been told?

@cg no but neither am I as cynical as I once was. Most people are just trying to do their jobs as well as they can, just like we do.

I don't see CE making up a bare faced lie, they've no need to. They'd just say "we're scared of being sued" rather than quite specifics.

@somewhatslightlydazed , sign posted & one way.

Went the other day and everything I rode last year was still there, with added packed down kitty litter. The new reservoir trail was fun, just needs to dry out lower down, the top is quite quick already. I don't know the locals secret stuff so cant comment on that. I normally take a weekday of work to ride it, so I'm not going to worry about traffic as there isn't any then :).

Can Swinley still be ridden at night?

Wondering what happens if you were to get lost off the exceedingly well signed trail. I imagine it would take quite a bit of exploration to get back to the exceedingly well signed trail.

Wondering what happens if you were to get lost off the exceedingly well signed trail. I imagine it would take quite a bit of exploration to get back to the exceedingly well signed trail.

And you might accidently ride a section the wrong way by mistake.........

I think riders are worried that the trails will become crowded with perhaps little opportunity for old girls like me to pull over for a fag and a breather.

Absolutely detest anyone on my back wheel, it can be quite intimidating and offputting.

Would be interesting to know what the percentages are of locals and those who travel further afield.

I dont want to appear unkind but you arent forced to ride at Swinley..

I rode some of the new stuff last week its a lot of fun, as long as the play areas are still accessible it should be fine

Im happy to drive 2.5hrs to cwmcarn for an xc loop with no off piste, im just as happy to drive 45mins for the same

I think the new stuff looks great. I do hope there is a settling in, rebuild time. Some of the new stuff, (eg off the tank traps) may erode quite quickly. There is, from what I have seen, plenty of opportunity to bin it and land in a crunpled heap. Stuff near the reservoir had my grinning but I am old and slow ( :wink:)