[Closed] The Toyota of hydraulic brakes?

The Toyota of hydraulic brakes?

Midpriced, Japanese and fairly common? hmm, I wonder 😊

Deore brakes work, can last ages but like all Shimano, they aren’t perfect

Shimano or Magura.

But Shimano cost less.

Any particular model? Deore? They're are so many of them, it's confusing.

Personally I wouldn’t buy Shimano - had a faulty out of deores myself and had a go on a few bikes with Shimano brakes with variable bite point.

What’s wrong with the levels - just lacking in power?

Sram Guide RE are powerful (downhill caliper matched to a guide lever) and pretty cost effective. I had one for a while and it was faultless but I had a Code R on the front and the lever felt nicer - so I’ve got Code R’s all round on both bikes.

So far been fit and forget for a few years - all I had to do was shorten the hoses and so far change brake pads.

and can anyone stop me buying purple hope breaks cos they look nice?

BL MT501 with BT MT520. Stoporama.

Shimanos are cheaper than most, work very well, easy to bleed, and being so popular their pads are readily available from loads of different brands (some a lot better than others). They're just not that reliable and have persistent issues with leaking seals IME - so not very Toyota-like.

It's not that bad of an issue to stop me using them on the MTB or cross bike, where I go through pads quite often, conditions can be harsh - it's not like every caliper leaks. But if I owned a road bike I'd definitely be looking at some Hopes or other alternative - you want to have them on for years and be barely touching them.

I bet Toyota have the occasional faulty vehicle out of the millions they sell too

Erraticness seems pretty much designed into Shimano at this point, for years now they've been putting out brakes where a fair number will be iffy. Not total failures, just... iffy. I don't ride as many different bikes as I used to but Shimano are still by far the ones I'd rely on least, which is a bummer as they can be awesome value (I loved my old XTs)

But then, all my bikes have 10 year old Formula The Ones on them.

I am moving from Shimano to hope on my MTBs.

One year in and the e4 pair have given me 0 problems. They have had one bleed and pads as needed.

2 month's in and the v4 on the other bike have been no problem. No bleed, no pads as yet.

The third MTB doesn't get used much. It's had a few inconsistencies in the braking power. If it starts getting more use it will also go to hope e4 or v4

This month one mate's xt have failed, another mates xtr failed last month.

Any particular model?

How big are you and what's your riding like on what kind of bike?

I'm 90kg and HT rider - Deore 4-piston with Uberbike Kevlar or race matrix = teh shizzles.

We have had a mix of shimano, sram and Juin tech cable /hydros over about eight or nine bikes, never had a shimano fail and the shimano brakes on my ibis came off an old giant frame that had been lying in a half open-air shed for two years and just needed a bleed.The sram on my cx bike have been pretty much spot on for five years or so. We through out a Juin tech calliper last week which had gone about six years with no attention whatsoever other than pads. So shimano for Toyotaness

I'm about 73kg, bike is steel rigid = 14kg. I generally find low-spec brakes OK for riding around but doing serious downhill stuff or when loaded up with 25kg of food/equipment/water, they're shite and lose power (sometimes totally as in Jordan!).

Maybe I'll get the Hope E4's if I can find them in purple 😀

Formula Cura's fit the bill. Surprising considering their recent history with brakes but they are superb.
If you can pay more, Hope are super solid and you'll be able to get spares for decades.

I've had problems with both my sets of Shimano brakes and know many others that have as well.

Ratio of decent to dodgy shimano is vastly improved now imo. 4-pot deore or slx would be fine.
Cura are great brakes too, 2 or 4 pot.

Been riding a set of tech 3 E4 for a year and have absolutely no idea what the hype is about. Down on power, poor lever feel, more arm pump. Same as last time I had hope brakes for a year. Most people I know who have put hope brakes on their bikes got shot of them pretty quick.

In my experience, I'd go for SRAM Guides.

I've had Shimano deore, xt, xtr, zee and saints. They needed constant bleeding. The bite point is hugely variable. So many times I've pulled the lever and it's gone straight to the bars then needed a couple of flicks to get them working.

My Guides on the other hand were flawless. Only issue I had was a swelling lever internals on a roasting hot day in the Alps. Apart from that they never needed bled and were stupidly powerful even for me at 200lbs+

In my personal experience, Shimano Deore. Given the number of complaints, there were obviously some problems, but I believe they were replaced under warranty. The more expensive Shimanos with the fancy levers are a pain in the arse IME, but the basic Deores work nicely with an 8" rotor and decent pads.

We've both had the same Shimanos (Zee and SLX) for the last few years and they've been fine, just new pads when they've needed them and nothing else. What about using bigger discs OP?

This has just turned into another tell us your brakes, predictably.

Cheap, relatively reliable, availability, has to be Shimano.

And tbh, I'd rather have a piston failure than gawdy purple hopes 🤣

Shimano are definately not reliable. I'd say sram g2 rsc - bite point adjust, reach adjust, 4pot, guide pads so available, easy to bleed, reliable.

Shimano are definately not reliable

Having had them on bikes for 12 years, I'd disagree, as Dezb rightly says, sheer production numbers will result in more failures, see also Reverbs.

And if you're talking about historical failures, and recommending Sram, then you'd really have to include Avids, and most of them were a tad shite.

I had SRAM Guide RS brakes on last bike - they were fit-and-forget and worked well. My own personal niggle with them was as the pads wore down, the lever pull increased - it remained consistent, but over a period of 6 months, the lever pull increased. Still had the same great stopping power, but by the end of the 6-months I'd started to miss the shorter lever pull.

I'm now riding SRAM Code RSC brakes and they are also brilliantly fit-and-forget - same issue with the lever pull as the pads wear down, but the stopping power is great.

Have you considered going up a rotor size? That should also provide a bit more bite and stopping power (once the pads and rotor have bedded in).

I'm due to bleed the Codes - don't really need it but I like to try and do a bleed yearly - it will allow me to adjust the pistons and remove the 'excessive' (to me) lever pull. I'm fully expecting that once I've done this I instantly regret it as it'll turn out I actually preferred the longer pull!

The Codes do have the ability to adjust this lever travel, but I always forget about it and when I play around with it, the brakes feel squishier so I have learned to leave it - when they get back to the bar, I change the pads and they are back to spot on - but that is really only because the pads wear away...

Formula are pretty much fit and forget in my experience, I've had a set for years with very little maintenance needed. They've outperformed my Shimano and Sram brakes.

You can get plenty of decent enough good value brakes from Sram/Shimano/Magura but Formula are a cut above in terms of quality.

same issue with the lever pull as the pads wear down

Easy fix = just wind the levers out to move the bite point where you like it.

The levers will then rest further out, but you won't notice that once you're on the bike and covering the levers anyway.

I've done that on both Guides and Codes - the R models - which have been surprisingly reliable.

I still prefer Shimano, even if they need the odd bleed if the bite point begins to wander.

I had a pair of Deores both fail within a couple of weeks of each other.

I had Juicy 3s that I never bled in years and they worked faultlessly.

My E4s have been faultless too and silent.

New bike is spec'd with Deore 4 pots but the E4s will go on and the Deores will either go on a HT build or be punted on.

I had Juicy 3s that I never bled in years and they worked faultlessly.

I have some on an 11 year old bike and still give no problems. The frame rusted tho. ymmv

Must admit I'm very tempted by Formula Curas. I had a set of The Ones that were amazing a few years back, and my word they look good. I'm building a 26" Rocket back up after a couple years not riding enough, and I want to treat it to some shiny bits. While Deores would almost certainly be enough brake they're just not fancy enough!

I had Juicy 3s that I never bled in years and they worked faultlessly.

That's cos you never had to bleed them. Think of a dog shite, aye it's no great to look at, but the smell and mess only begins when some poor bugger stands on it.

Avid brake bleeding is like standing in dog shite.

I ran Hayes HFXs for 15 years. They were the best back then. They were reliable and very powerful, but lacked modulation. Very reliable IME.

I had friend who had the original Shimano XT 4 pots. The modulation was so much better than the HFXs, but they were expensive. Very reliable IME.

Then the original Deore hydros came out and they were amazing for the price, cheap and excellent modulation. Very reliable IME.

Hayes came back with the El Camino, which I've had on a couple of bikes. Very adjustable, big improvement on the HFXs. I still run them on my old XC bike. Very reliable IME.

I've also run some used Avid Juicys briefly, then swapped them to a friend. They reminded me of the Hayes HFXs. Seemed reliable, powerful, modulation not so great.

Currently, I have some basic Deores on one bike, Saints on another, and SLXs on another. The Saints are definitely most powerful, but the Shimano Servo-Wave levers are just pointless. The Deores (with an 8" disk) just work well and have great modulation.

So, for me, if I wanted a brake with good modulation at a good price, it would be Deores.

Shimano XT's, I've the four-pot version and they just work, I never need to think about them, not bled or serviced them since I fitted them either. Have had the discs up to 'they smell hot' and 'the rain's boiling on impact' temperatures, so they'll take plenty of stick.

Had red Hope Mono M4's a few years back (because red) and they were equally great but became higher maintenance as time went on. Swapped to XT's as they're cheaper and found that they were just as good for me.

Nope, winding the levers out then put them out of reach...and if I adjust the other thing the brakes go mushy - I think it is called modulation but just feels mushy, I like a solid feeling lever.

Another long term Shimano user here, they just work and seem to thrive on neglect.

BL MT501 with BT MT520. Stoporama.

I'll second that. Recently upgraded from Guide R brakes as supplied on my Trek Remedy, to these.

Night and day!

I’m about 73kg, bike is steel rigid = 14kg. I generally find low-spec brakes OK for riding around but doing serious downhill stuff or when loaded up with 25kg of food/equipment/water, they’re shite and lose power (sometimes totally as in Jordan!).

Maybe I’ll get the Hope E4’s if I can find them in purple 😀

for a lightweight rider* on a rigid bike, I'd recommend Hope X2. Had a pair for 2 years on the mud mountain bike/summer commuter. they have been faultless and have a lovely feel to them (possibly down to the 2 piston design).

this in comparison to the E4 on my full suss bike, and the previous shimano XTs that did the pull to the bar, frequent bleed thing.

*at my fattest, with a normal day bag on, I'd be around about your loaded touring weight. No issue on lack of power, even with a 160 disc on the rear.

Ive had loads of shimano brakes, never any prob’s, sram’s haven been utter gash!

Nope, winding the levers out then put them out of reach

Not once you're covering the brakes, surely?

Give it a try, works fine for me with my stubby fingers.

SRAM code R  ( no one is more surprised than me writing that down)

I thought Saints were the bees knees, but for overalll stopping power, non-faff all round use, the Codes have been brilliant. Haven’t missed all the extra adjustments, the only minor fly in the ointment is that the levers are starting (after a couple years of hard use) get a little bit loose, and I can see them getting rattlly. Might look at some RSC levers if/when that happens

can anyone stop me buying purple hope breaks cos they look nice?

Decision's made then isn't it! I have Hope X2 on my rigid commuter/bikepacker and V2 on my trail bike. Both lovely, and with the Hope bleed kit they are an absolute doddle to bleed.

Yeah pricey, yeah maybe not as 'good' as top end Sram or Shimano. But the alternatives don't have the bling factor, and for many (me very much included) that matters.

Not once you’re covering the brakes, surely?

Give it a try, works fine for me with my stubby fingers.

Yeah...got the reach sorted so my finger tip of my index finger sits on the blade resting on the crease of the furthest knuckle...so they fit nicely.

So if I move the lever any further out, I need to stretch to get my finger round the lever. I've no real interest in running my lever slightly engaged where my finger then rests as that is asking for trouble with my inability to ride smoothly - I'll be locking up the brakes over the slightest bumps.

Deore or SLX are great brakes fresh from the box and for a good few months after that too. XT are too variable for me to ever buy again. Catastrophic failures do happen with Shimano but don't with Hope, as they're fully and readily serviceable, whereas Shimano are disposable. Sooner or maybe later, the piston seals will fail. If you have kept them long enough, as frustration with variable bite point sometimes leads folk to bin them before they fail.
Meantime, I've Hopes that have outlived 3 or 4 sets of Shimanos.
I quite like SRAM in general too but somehow they're just less inspiring. As well as less serviceable.

haha, I'm gonna buy some SPD boots instead!

What, and jam em in the spokes?

You could get E4 calipers, switch the seals to the red RX4 big ones (you'd need 8 in total), and run Shimano levers. That way you'd get a serviceable caliper AND a variable bite point.

I’ve had first generation SLX which worked fine with no worries or wandering bite point or leaks.

Since then I’ve had 2 sets of Deores, SLX, 3 sets of XT and a pair of Zee. They’ve all failed at some point, and have been mixed/matched throughout depending on which bits were working. The bite point varies considerably and they needed constant bleeding (by both myself and decent mechanics (when I eventually got so fed up I thought it much be my error).

Pretty sure all but the first pair were servo wave (but they were so cheap from CRC during that time period it was sometimes easier to just bin the whole brake than get a replacement lever or calliper)

I’ve been put off Shimano since then, not we’re either on Hope or SRAM (OEM) now as at least with Hope you can get replacement parts compared to Shimano brakes that you cannot and so bin them.

Didn't Toyota have to issue a global recall on millions of vehicles for faulty brakes a few years ago? 😉

the bling factor

Bling is definitely subjective 😅

By far, the most reliable, resilient, trouble free, Toyota like brakes I've had are my current Code Rs. Using them since May 2019, still on original front pads, zero maintenance, the levers took an absolute beating on crashes, I'm amazed.

Old school Shimano brakes were great and dependable, the new ones not so much. I had a set of XT M8000s for a couple of years, was bleeding them every 3 months or so, wandering bitting point on the worse critical moments and the levers were made of glass (went through 3 of them, mostly on mild crashes)