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We done [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/recreational-cycling/11559084/25550-the-incredible-annual-cost-of-amateur-bike-racing.html ]this one[/url] yet?
Second hand TCR and a cheap 99 quid turbo. Job done.
What an idiot
And how is £16k of bikes justifiable at that level, although he try's hard to bring it across as "annual spend"? He's only fooling himself.
The entire article is nonsense, from skim reading it, he didn't even buy those 8k bikes, they are loaned from the team.
Is this the same guy?
https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/points?person_id=29795&year=2015&d=4
A flippin wattbike too! How is that an annual cost?
Yes HH, I think it is him.
I don't like him. I get why they've done that article, but it's a bit like saying "dining out for families costs £275k a year*"
*if you're a family of 6 going to the Fat Duck every day
Yes, racing does cost £25k a year if you spend £18.5k on bikes, then add a £2,250 Wattbike on top!
Is this the same guy?
Yep, the one who doesn't appear to have scored a single point 😕
That's an enormously impressive total. But it implies he's buying a new Wattbike, TT bike, racing bike, training bike and spare wheels [i]every year[/i] at a cost of GBP20,750.
If you depreciate that lot over even 3 years you get down around GBP10k per year. Which is still quite a lot, of course, just nowhere near the headline number.
yep assume he is either not buying 3 bikes a year or not selling them on at the end of the season.
The racing bill
1. Two fully-equipped racing bikes for time trialing and road races........... £16,000
2. Winter training bike ................................................................................ £2,000
3. Spare racing wheels .............................................................................. £500
4. Cost of race entries for 8-month season ............................................... £1,000
5. Transport costs to races (diesel) ........................................................... £1,500
6. Indoor trainer (I use a Wattbike) ............................................................. £2,250
7. Training camp (Majorca) ......................................................................... £700
8. Nutrition including supplements, gels and protein .................................. £800
9. Race clothing .......................................................................................... £500
10. Replacing tyres .................................................................................... £300
Total .......................................................................................................... £25,550
I remember doing some events in the UK and I reckon I could spend 6-900 on entries easily if I had the cash about.
300 on rubber sounds possible over 2-3 bikes
A trail bike and a DH bike probably 10k if you wanted to go there same for trail and XC (again if you wanted to)
Transport and accommodation would be up there for any national series
Training camp? Is that the same as going to the alps with your mates and getting pissed?
Reckon any serious mountain biking amateur could get close 🙂
Over the next 12 months I reckon I have the potential for 3x 4-5 day races costs to do them are fairly high but they are holidays for me.
Doing a 1/2 marathon next weekend, will come up around about 150-200 quid for the weekend and thats just up the road.
I'd not argue with 4, 5, 9 and 10 but the rest are not annual costs and are hugely extravagant.
£2k on a winter training. LOOOOOOLLOLOLL
Yep, the one who doesn't appear to have scored a single point
Excellent, I consider myself far superior by gaining the same results at approx 5% of his outlay.
There are always some people that blow huge amounts racing. It doesn't make them fast though. I used to race 3-4 times a week and used to see this all the time.
****.
😀 head of knobs.
Has he really failed to get any points? I really can't be arsed to give it anything other than the quickest of skims.
Bloody hell, I did a season (four weekends) racing a 125 last year and it cost less than £2500 including buying the bike and new tyres! I came second* in the NEMCRC proddy 125 championship, in case anyone's interested.
* by dint of turning up and not crashing than by actual ability and/or speed 😆
Just another sensationalist piece by a media slowly dying and trying to drive some interest.
It's the same with any hobby, there's a minimum price of entry - usually a tiny fraction of what people choose to spend, but when someone really gets into it, they spend what they can.
If they want to be staggered they should look at Clubman level Motorsport, my friends used to race a bit, it was cheap to start (relative to motorsport) you bought a unloved 80's hothatch for a few hundred quid, a cage for a few hundred more, a race suit and a helmet and with a bit of spanner work you were good to go - races were a few hundred to entre - so you could race a full season maybe £2000 including travel - the car would cost you about the same and if you didn't crash it too much it would last for years as the rules meant you couldn't go too mad upgrading it. Then the lovely old guy who ran it, retired and someone else took over - the rules used to say the cars had to be road legal and driven to the track - which obviously limited how mad you could go, that went out the window, and people wanted to spend a bit more to go faster, and a bit more and a bit more.
I'm not joking, but in first year they were involved the fastest car on the grid was a 1.6 vetec Honda Civic from the early 90's - it probably cost £4000 to build, last year the top class had a Ferrari 458, a Porsche 997 and a Mosler in it - full race spec super cars, same series and in 10 years it's gone from £2500 cars to £250,000 cars.
I'd say that this is probably a fair annual cost, although £500 on clothing seems on the low side.
Next year he'll be spending more on sailing, last years flash-in-the-pan hobby was probably golf.
WyndyMilla
'Nuff said 😉
I particularly like the fact that he needs £500 on clothes. Is this to fit in with roadie haute couture?
However, I'll show this to the wife before I buy a new groupset!
edit. vinnyeh - £500 on clothes is low? I get that roadie clothing is super tight and so a bit more expensive but presuably you just need one pair of shorts, a top and the knowledge of how to use a washing machine??
Puncture during a ride and that's another £100 for the replacement racing tubular tyre.
🙄
I particularly like the fact that he needs £500 on clothes. Is this to fit in with roadie haute couture?
to be fair, if that includes helmet, shoes, race cape, a couple of bibs and an jersey you wouldn't be far off £500. But you wouldn't have to replace them every year.
Has he really failed to get any points?
According to the BC link, yes. According to his article he got a podium in a team time trial.
Dunno what category he's riding. One assumes he played the "I used to be fast" card, he's clearly not a 4th from the events he's done, but isn't showing a category at all on the BC website, and has done some events that are E/1/2 and some that are 3rds only. Presumably a 3rd cat.
Strange way of coming to that overall figure - he clearly states his team provide him with race bikes, so why is that included yet the cost of his car (or van) is left out, because without that he wouldn't be getting to the 8 months' worth of races? Guess a Man-Spends-Moderate-Amount-On-Recreational-Pursuit story would be less interesting.
To be fair to the guy, from his results this year he's a 3rd cat but he isn't riding chipper races so a bit harsh to mock him for not scoring any points yet!
I don't understand how he's racing in Cat E/1/2 and 2/3 races when he doesn't appear to have raced in any Cat 4 races to get points to move up?
I always thought that you needed to get a certain amount of points at Cat 4 before you could move up to Cat 3 and so on?
I always thought that you needed to get a certain amount of points at Cat 4 before you could move up to Cat 3 and so on?
Not if you phone BC and say "can I have a 3rd cat licence please". If you've got previous palmares (as he does) then they'll usually oblige. Ditto in mountain biking - people have had expert or even elite licences following a long break.
Not if you phone BC and say "can I have a 3rd cat licence please". If you've got previous palmares (as he does) then they'll usually oblige. Ditto in mountain biking - people have had expert or even elite licences following a long break.
Ah, that'll explain it then 🙂
They were talking about that one on the GCN show last night, safe to say they were not in agreement in any way at all.
In fact, let me break it down a touch into a sensible but not overly frugal spend:
1. Two fully-equipped racing bikes for time trialing and road races [s]£16,000[/s]. I can understand 2 bikes, one road, one TT, let give a generous £3k each to that, though I wouldn't expect to replace those every year.
2. Winter training bike ...[s] £2,000[/s]. For a winter bike?!?! £1k, maybe £1.5k to be generous and in no way replaced every year, in fact, you could argue £0 as just use an old race bike. I’ll give £1k.
3. Spare racing wheels £500. I can see that actually, that's not too bad.
4. Cost of race entries for 8-month season £1,000. I'll leave that too as I have no idea how much the races he entered cost.
5. Transport costs to races (diesel) [s]£1,500[/s]. This seems high to me, I reckon that's something like 10,000 miles at 40mpg, I'm going to halve it. £750
6. Indoor trainer (I use a Wattbike), [s]£2,250[/s]. Nope, that’s a bloody expensive trainer, winter bike on a good turbo, £300 being generous and no way is that replaced each year.
7. Training camp (Majorca). £700. If you must, you could just man up and ride in the rain though, you’ve got a new winter bike after all…
8. Nutrition including supplements, gels and protein, [s]£800[/s]. High even if you live on this stuff. I'll halve it, particularly if you're buying in bulk, £400.
9. Race clothing, £500. Fair, on the low side arguably.
10. Replacing tyres, £300. £30 each for Veloflex Masters online means 10 new tyres a year. High but I'm feeling generous.
Total [s]£25,550[/s] Nope, try £11,450. And I've been very generous in some of those numbers I think, for a start you don't need 3 new bikes and a new turbo trainer every year. I reckon you could get that down without too much hardship as well.
9 is actually a bit low I'd say considering a TT skinsuit could be half of that. Two jerseys, two bibs, socks, gloves, overshoes, arm and leg warmers, rain jacket, etc. He's probably not included two or three helmets (TT and road) and shoes. Then there's training kit.
6 though, that made me laugh out loud.
Spent less on my bike than his nutrition budget, and I wasn't last.
Hopefully he'll go back to golf now.
If you're racing at a high enough level to warrant all that stuff, surely you'd get at least some of it for free or discounted?
Two jerseys, two bibs, socks, gloves, overshoes, arm and leg warmers, rain jacket, etc... Then there's training kit.
This is why I have been doing so badly at racing, I have one pair of bib shorts, one jersey, and a smelly old fleece to keep me warm before the start.. even worse, I sometimes train in a normal t-shirt if my jersey is dirty!
And arguably, as the vast majority of cyclists don't cycle naked, clothing isn't a race specific expenditure.
The brutal truth is that without the support of the Surrey-based bike builder, there is little chance I could afford to compete again at elite level in the UK.
What a load of bollocks. You can quite easily be competitive on a £1K bike.
The one accurate bit of that article is the first two paras - I've raced a few times on a team with Norman Dunn, and he is indeed very much the quiet, tough type.
He was a 1st Cat in 1998 - most of his Telegraph articles are very much the "I used to race a bike so I know what I'm talking about" attitude, quite sneery and dismissive of "lesser riders". I think he might have had a try-out for what was then the British Cycling Junior squad back in the mid-90's but never quite made it.
Either way, he dropped out of racing completely, his Twitter indicates that he was in the military for a while (Marines maybe?) so he often comments with "authority and expertise" on that too.
Standard sensationalist article, the Daily Fail did something very recently about "racing into debt to ride a top end bike" saying about how people were spending "as much as a second hand sports car" on a bicycle and then putting a sort of 😯 😯 spin on it.
If he can't win a 2/3 road race then I doubt he's going to win the Masters Road Race Championships.
Yes, just the standard "people spend indulgent amount on hobby" shocker.
Next year he'll be spending more on sailing, last years flash-in-the-pan hobby was probably golf.
My sailing spend over the last year. Getting back ito it so 99% of stuff had to be bought this year, and I've included old stuff at new prices too to make the list complete.
Boat £2500
Sails £1500 (2x, competative life of sails in the class is usualy 3 years, so really that's 6 years of sails).
Wetsuit £150
Boots £30
Knee pads £30
PFD £35
Gloves £70 (2x pairs and liners)
Assorted base layers and rash vests £40
Balaclava £10
Spray top £30
Re-roping and new blocks to get it how I like it £300
Maintenance sundries (epoxy, sandpaper etc) £50
Race entries ~12 x £20 for the summer and winter traveler series, + £90 nationals.
Accomodation £300 (only where camping or the car wasn't an option)
Fuel £300 (guestimate, assuming half a tank per race).
Club membership £200
Insurance £50
Food £££
<£6k, and at least 2/3rds of that is in assets that will depreciate over 3-6 years, so the yearly costs are probably arround the £1000-£1500 mark, or about £10/race
And that's enough to my boat to the same spec as the top of the fleet, club racing 2.5 races a week, and me to all the open events, if I just wanted to do the club races I reckon it could be done for a tiny fraction of that!
I used to do a bit of Landrover/4x4 off-road stuff.. nothing too serious, just off-road navigation stuff.
I had a battered 110 Defender with decent recovery points, and reasonable driving skills.
You can have loads of fun on the 4x4 scene with a £2k second-hand Discovery/Suzuki Vitara, a set of lumpy remoulds and some recovery gear.
However, I also used to marshal/do recovery work at various 'extreme challenge' events.
Most entrants would turn up with a Defender pick-up fitted with mud tyres, a winch and a cage.. maybe £9k worth of investment.
Others would turn up to the same (amateur) events with a fully space-framed buggy, with a £3k winch bolted to each end...
Rumour had it that some of these guys were sinking £75k+ into these trucks.
Every 'hobby' is the same, some people are happy spending enough to get by at a reasonable level, while others need the best of everything.
- however as soon as it involves an engine, it starts to make cycling look cheap...
Just skimmed the article, his figures don't add up really. Mostly I was amazed the he is only 40 - he hasn't aged too well has he! His byline photo could be someone 10-15 years older.
I posted the article to Norm on FB - I wonder what he has to say about Andrew (nothing at all most likely)
Has he really failed to get any points?
he finished 22nd overall in the tour of the reservoir, that suggests to me he's a very strong racer indeed.
His numbers are utter rubbish. I know an Elite road rider and his training kit was all old team stuff from in some cases up to 15 years old, and his winter bike was a 10+ year old race bike. His sponsor give him a road bike and I think they paid his entries and for 1 or 2 sets of kit. His TT frame and wheels were bought 1/2 price and built up with stuff he had already and stuff at trade. Winter training was a bike on a mid range turbo or rollers in the shed. A lot of this stuff lasts 10+ years, if looked after. Guesstimating I'd put the year at ~3-5k.
Clearly the jurno is no accountant!!
If you read between the lines you can see that he's budgeted for a VW van next season... 😀
Milton Keynes Spring Road Race 2003. Rode my training bike and some chump was laughing at the old 105 stuff on my bike. He definitely finished behind me that day. Everyone did 😀 and that was an E123 8)
he finished 22nd overall in the tour of the reservoir, that suggests to me he's a very strong racer indeed.
Where's that? He finished 22nd in the Tour of Northumberland, a National B race? Unless I'm missing something he didn't do the Tour of the Reservoir. [url= https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/events/details/125499/Tour-of-the-Reservoir-2-day#results ]Results.[/url] He finished 9th in 1998 though.
He's certainly not doing chipper races, but I remain unimpressed given his talking.
Some tough races there, so not surprising he hasn't scored points. I was down for the SL stage race and we were targeting points and overall. Obviously, I didn't ride, but TCC won the first race.
However,
If he can't [s]win[/s] place in a 2/3 road race then I doubt he's going to win the Masters Road Race Championships.
Is probably true this year. There are plenty of elites in my age group (45-50) and other groups as well! I'm used to hanging onto Martin Smith's wheel for as long as I can. Never beaten him. Ever.
£2000 gets you an excellent race bike, £400 gets you a good used starter race bike (TCR, of course!). My kit probably does cost £500, including shoes, and one decent crash and it's new skinsuit and helmet time (£250). But seriously, better off buying a cheaper bike and the services of a coach.
Race entries are not insignificant, about £500/year. Teams pay for national events normally.
'm used to hanging onto Martin Smith's wheel for as long as I can
The ex army guy? i've been riding with him. He's a total machine. turned up to our sunday club ride and realised how fit he was when he big ringed it up one of the climbs out of Bristol.
he finished 22nd overall in the tour of the reservoir, that suggests to me he's a very strong racer indeed.
Where's that? He finished 22nd in the Tour of Northumberland, a National B race? Unless I'm missing something he didn't do the Tour of the Reservoir.
My Bad! I'm assuming he did the cat 3/4 race then? not particularly impressive. i was going tor ace that, but it was easter....
But seriously, better off buying a cheaper bike and the services of a coach.
Hmm good point, he doesn't seem to have listed the cost of coaching. Probably knows it all.
mrblobby - MemberWe done this one yet?
Second hand TCR and a cheap 99 quid turbo. Job done.
LOL - how many here follow this suggestion?
Seems to me most here are closer to cyclists described in the article than not.
LOL - how many here follow this suggestion?
🙂
Hardly anyone I suspect. Point is you can do it on very little money if you want, or you can choose to spend pretty much a limitless amount of cash on it.
I reckon I'm somewhere around £2k a year. But most of that is nice to have, very little is essential.
[quote=cynic-al ]Seems to me most here are closer to cyclists described in the article than not.
Depends on your definition of "closer". My race bikes aren't exactly cheap, but at £5k for the pair I'm rather closer to £0 than his spend. The TT bike is the more expensive, but currently costing me £167 a year.
Closer how? I don't think any spend >12k every year on racing alone, so mathematically we're all closer to the guy who works in Greggs than we are to Critchlow.
But it's irrelevant anyway, as he even says he doesn't actually pay those prices for that kit. He's done the equivalent of selling a bike and valuing it by listing the retail prices of everything, including the garage it's stored in.
LOL how defensive are you lot?
Using maths (and an amount already decried earlier in the thread) when I was just pointing towards a principle - most of us spend WAY more than we need to - especially those thinking it will make them faster.
LOL how defensive are you lot?
"You lot". You mean two of us, who made a very valid observation. 😕
Has all that lol'ing starved your brain of oxygen!?
Of course we all spend more than we need to. No one needs to own a bike, nor race it.
Using maths (and an amount already decried earlier in the thread) when I was just pointing towards a principle - most of us spend WAY more than we need to - especially those thinking it will make them faster.
I don't think people are decrying the amount so much as what he has included in the claimed "annual cost" (... a Wattbike!!!) And the implication that this is "the incredible cost of amateur bike racing" for all and that people are being priced out as a result. Which is clearly bollocks.
It's just someone indulging their hobby with extravagant spending.
especially those thinking it will make them faster.
Hold on, I added some <70g new pedals to my bike at the weekend. You mean I won't be faster? 😯
To be fair to him regarding bikes being an annual cost, for a lot of semi-pros the offer they get is to buy that year's race bike(s) at a reduced rate, rather than get anything for free - the idea often being that you can sell them on at the end of the season for close to what you paid.
Admittedly this means that his bikes are, in fact, astronomically expensive ( as opposed to just "silly expensive"), but it would mean an annual outlay if he wants to stay with the team.
Hold on, I added some <70g new pedals to my bike at the weekend. You mean I won't be faster?
Well you will, but not measurably to any degree of accuracy.
To be fair to him regarding bikes being an annual cost, for a lot of semi-pros the offer they get is to buy that year's race bike(s) at a reduced rate, rather than get anything for free - the idea often being that you can sell them on at the end of the season for close to what you paid.
That's not how he's put it though (and many teams running that sort of deal will let you just give the bike back anyway, or purchase at the end of the season, potentially having already sold it). Either way it's either 'free' or you sell it on, so the only annual expenditure would be the trade value of the bike, less it's resale value.
I used to do that every year until bikes got stupid expensive and even at trade they were £3k+, just too small a market for that second hand.
Of course we all spend more than we need to. No one needs to own a bike, nor race it.
Or chain it to a lampost outside someone's cafe?
njee20 - Member
Of course we all spend more than we need to. No one needs to own a bike, nor race it.
YAY! Godwins's law in 1 post!
My point is most of us spend way more than we need to to get the level of enjoyment/performance we want.
Lighten up pal.
Click on his byline and he appears to be a financial journalist by trade.
So I won't put too much faith in the Telegraph's reporting on money matters from now on.
Could have been a worthwhile article if it wasn't for the absurd maths.
Has all that lol'ing starved your brain of oxygen!?
😯 I lol'd, hoping to God/Allah I haven't starved myself of oxygen, I really don't want to end up like Al...
FWIW I raced last year on an standard entry level alu TCR, (it had a PM on but we'll gloss over that...) got some points and even some prize money too. You don't have to go balls deep.
if that includes helmet, shoes, race cape, a couple of bibs and an jersey you wouldn't be far off £500.
I don't know what a race cape is but if it's what I'm imagining, I really want one.
I lol'd, hoping to God/Allah I haven't starved myself of oxygen, I really don't want to end up like Al...
I suspect you're safe. I wholly approve of the activity. But typing "lol" should be reserved for 12 year old girls on Snapagram or whatever.
I don't know what a race cape is but if it's what I'm imagining, I really want one.
It is exactly that!
You're imagining a clear rain jacket designed so you can still see team kit and race numbers yes?
No imagination some peopleYou're imagining a clear rain jacket designed so you can still see team kit and race numbers yes?
[img]
[/img]
How that is a race face!
LOL - how many here follow this suggestion?
funnily enough, I did just this; £400 used seven year old TCR and no turbo. The upgraded Propel frame (RIP) only came when I graduated to third cat. The new bike was faster, but not by much.
The replacement will be Marcel's long lost smaller whiter twin. Promised second cat upgrade, but needs must. It won't be faster.
Worth a bump to say the author must be a different Andrew Critchlow to the one who dispensed this nugget of wisdom, among others, in the same paper last year:
"
7. Ride a bike that reflects your ability, not your ego. Bikes worth £10,000 are only cool when piloted by racing snakes who can ride 25 miles in under 52 minutes. I won my first race on a £150 third-hand Paganini, which changed gear of its own accord.
"