You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
I'm looking for a steel do-it-all bike for light street, transportation and occasional XC use.
Specifically a frame at or under 2 kg with a 67-70 degree head angle on a 100 mm adjusted rigid fork, max 440 mm seat tube, max 415 mm chainstay and minimum 620 mm virtual top tube. I'm 6'3" and already know I like the frame size.
The Chameleon in Medium is perfect, but I'd prefer a light steel frame for it's suppleness and tbh looks. The Cotic Soul almost fits the bill, but the medium is too short and the large to tall, the BFE has too long chainstays and people say it feels a bit dead.
Any other options at or under 2 kg?
Assume we're talking current gen Chameleon (29er) In which case:
> Stanton Sherpa ticks some of the boxes
> Cotic SolarisMax (probably current gen, not upcoming Longshot)
Assume we’re talking current gen Chameleon (29er) In which case:
> Stanton Sherpa ticks some of the boxes
> Cotic SolarisMax (probably current gen, not upcoming Longshot)
Thanks! Stanton Sherpa is a bit too tall again 483 mm seat tube, Slackline is heavier than I need for my riding although lovely. Solarismax also too tall. Basically I'm looking for something resembling a stretched out DJ bike (kinda what the current 27.5 chameleon is).
Commencal meta hit any good? NS bikes must have something. You'll struggle to find under 2kg, I'm after something similar and the soul is the lightest steel option I've found.
Too long CS, too high seat tube in Large! NS bikes steel HTs are all about 2.5 kg. Doesn't need to be under 2 kg, but ideally not much over.
BFe
sorry, not sorry
“Basically I’m looking for something resembling a stretched out DJ bike (kinda what the current 27.5 chameleon is).”
There is no 27.5 Chameleon, it’s a 29/27.5+ bike. As such it’s designed for 120mm 29er forks and close to 29” wheels.
The Cotic Soul’s chainstays are 428mm long, like the BFe.
As soon as you try to get the chainstay length down to 415mm with steel you fail the weight criteria, because it’s only possible with a yoke, which adds weight vs tubes - and 2kg is about the minimum for a CEN compliant steel hardtail.
A custom frame with light tubing, no requirement to pass CEN (I think that’s the case for one-offs) and compromised tyre clearance will do it.
The aluminium chameleon is over 2kg, so I don't think that is a realistic target with steel.
BFe
Lovely, but too long CS.
As soon as you try to get the chainstay length down to 415mm with steel you fail the weight criteria, because it’s only possible with a yoke, which adds weight vs tubes – and 2kg is about the minimum for a CEN compliant steel hardtail.
Good point, slightly heavier than the soul is fine, just ideally not a pound heavier. Thinking there probably are some eligible 26" frames with that length CS as I don't need a lof ot tyre clearance. Kinesis has a SL steel DJ frame, but like most DJ specific frames it's too short.
The aluminium chameleon is over 2kg, so I don’t think that is a realistic target with steel.
That's a large, medium at or under 2kg I believe.
Dunno 'bout the numbers, but, Stif Morph?
NS bikes eccentric cromo 29 would be pretty close I think?
I'll be buying the Chameleon, but my search came up with the Pipedream Sirius 4G
Won't be under 2Kg though - the Chameleon is lighter - what swung me in the end is that with Plus tyres the material is irrelevant and the frame is supposed to be pretty comfy on 29" too - didn't have a reason to take the extra weight then. I like a skinny flexy steel frame myself, but I think the Sirius is aimed at tougher terrain than the chalk downs.
Dunno ’bout the numbers, but, Stif Morph?
Qwery, just looked back into the Morph, a bit slack, but otherwise nearly spot on in medium. I just can't find its weight anywhere, guessing it's around 2.5 kg? At that point I'd have to weigh it up against the Stanton Switchback.
NS bikes eccentric cromo 29 would be pretty close I think?
Close, a bit small in Medium, Large too tall, medium is 2.59 kg.
I’ll be buying the Chameleon, but my search came up with the Pipedream Sirius 4G
Nice, unfortunately the medium is a bit too short (eff top tube). I really need something that's "medium/long".
Some 4X frames might get you close!
NS Clash is a sort of in between bike but it's Alu and 120 mm.
Dartmoor Hornet 4X, again Alu.
Something from Identiti, Alu though.
Quite a tough ask in steel.
Anything by chromag? Production privee, Stanton used to make a 4x bike
Some 4X frames might get you close!
Yeah! Not easy to find at least, might have to consider a heavier frame or alu. I was talking to BTR about customizing their 4x frame, would be quite expensive and also around 2.5 kg. At that price I could get a Ti frame instead so there's that.
NS Clash, rather get a Chameleon! Dartmoor Hornet is too small unfortunately.
Stanton used to do a steel 4X frame.
Edit: Beaten to it.
Privee SHAN is 2.5kg?
Orange P7 is probably not 🤘🏻
Chromag do a M/L size in quite a few of their frames. However they're mostly designed for longer travel forks and are often pretty heavy. I love my Surface but I don't think there's something there that will fit the bill for the OP.
What about a Chameleon with an 853 sticker on
Oh, make sure the tubing is solid so it doesn't snap.
The new Slackline is lovely; they look ace with those skinny rear tubes and ride really nicely. The 853 tubeset is brilliant, and was probably nicer to ride in terms of feel than my Ti Switchback (second gen).
70 deg HA?? OOFT! 😲😂😂
What happened to the Stanton 4x4? Apart from the possibly a bit too short seattube it's nearly perf.
Timberwolf from Richey
https://www.merlincycles.com/ritchey-timberwolf-mountain-bike-frame-2017-110830.html
Merlin have some great deals on Transition hardtails too
Timberwolf from Richey
Too long st at 480 mm for the large i'm afraid! Medium is too small.
Is having one made going to go over budget? Plenty of custom frame builders working in steel, but could go ti if weight is more important?
Is having one made going to go over budget?
Yeah a bit over budget, although BTR does offer down payments. Ti is about the same price as a custom steel rame. Ideally I'd find a suitable 26" frame I could pick up for a couple hundred used! Cotic soul is nearly it, but a bit to tall to be ideal for my use.
Honzo ST is 3 kg or so? Something like this!
I'm only 5ft 7" and ride a medium Chameleon in 29er mode and it fits perfectly. At 6ft 3" it would like like a kids bike for you.
Mate of mine had a full custom steel ht from a guy callling himself smalltown boy designs, was 450 quid, 2 years ago.
If you've got deep pockets Curtis might be able to sort you out with something.
I'm a complete ignoramus where geometry and technical riding is concerned but would their [url= https://www.curtisbikes.co.uk/frames/curtis-racelite/ ]Racelight[/url] fit the bill?
Kona made the Explosif in Ti, if you can find one, look to the USA maybe.
This might work as hits some of your criteria
http://sickbicycleco.bigcartel.com/product/h-a-c-k-s-a-w-s-u-r-g-e-o-n-4130-preorder
Mate of mine had a full custom steel ht from a guy callling himself smalltown boy designs, was 450 quid, 2 years ago.
Thanks! Will contact, my only gripe is that custom bikes don't have a history of durability the same way a factory frame can have.
I’m only 5ft 7″ and ride a medium Chameleon in 29er mode and it fits perfectly. At 6ft 3″ it would like like a kids bike for you.
My current rame is a Brand X HT01 in Large, which is the same size as a Chameleon Medium, so should be fine.
If you’ve got deep pockets Curtis might be able to sort you out with something
Too short im afraid at 583 mm eff top tube. That's usually the problem with 4x frames, I need a XL for it to work (like the BTR Ignitor in XL which is perfect except for the weight and cost). An older XL 4x or DJ 26" frame could work here.
This might work as hits some of your criteria
http://sickbicycleco.bigcartel.com/product/h-a-c-k-s-a-w-s-u-r-g-e-o-n-4130-preorder
/a>
It could! Although I'm a bit in between sizes, medium being just a tiny bit short, large being a tiny bit tall. I will ask em about weight.
Kona made the Explosif in Ti
Unfortunately the 17" is too short and the 19" too tall.
If you’ve got deep pockets Curtis might be able to sort you out with something
Too short im afraid at 583 mm eff top tube. That’s usually the problem with 4x frames, I need a XL for it to work (like the BTR Ignitor in XL which is perfect except for the weight and cost). An older XL 4x or DJ 26″ frame could work here.
They offer custom options and a [url= https://www.curtisbikes.co.uk/frames/ ]and a variety of frames[/url] as a starting point, but they're pricey and you'd be well within titanium territory. Custom might be the only option to get you exactly what you want though.
Here's a contender, although alu, the 2017 Kona Shonky
TT 623 mm (longer than my large Brandx)
CS 400 mm (should fit small 27.5" tires)
ST 347 mm (concerned this is too short!)
Weight ?
Cost 450 dollars.
Pjay I've written them 🙂
Fwiw the Chameleon frame is very errr, supple probably not the right word but its certainly not a harsh frame. Feels more muted/forgiving in the rear than a Swarf steel frame I had previously so I wouldn't rule it out on that basis. Looks are clearly up to you.
Also isn't the stack height and overall bar height going to be a bit out with a 100mm corrected fork, particularly for your 'street' stuff? They have pretty short headtubes on them, particularly given your height and choice of frame size. I'm 6ft 3 and rode mine with a 130mm fox 34 and still needed a 35mm rise bar with 5mm of spacers, albeit appreciating we all want different things.
That all said I am selling my frame due to a rash purchase which is arriving shortly so if anyone browsing a chameleon thread wants an XL drop me a mail.
Contrary to what was said earlier, it is perfectly possible to make short chainstay 29ers without a heavy yoke. I've done 405mm with tubes and clearance for 2.4 tyres. But it takes effort and creative design.
Unless you want a very steep seat angle, you'll need to look for something with a proper bend in the seat tube, or a straight st with an offset forward joint at the bb. A decently slack st and 27.2 post is where most of the comfort comes from anyway (rear triangles are vertically stiff in any material)
Make your own? I just bought enough tubes for more than 2 frames for less than £300.
Fwiw the Chameleon frame is very errr, supple probably not the right word but its certainly not a harsh frame. Feels more muted/forgiving in the rear than a Swarf steel frame I had previously so I wouldn’t rule it out on that basis. Looks are clearly up to you.
Also isn’t the stack height and overall bar height going to be a bit out with a 100mm corrected fork, particularly for your ‘street’ stuff? They have pretty short headtubes on them, particularly given your height and choice of frame size. I’m 6ft 3 and rode mine with a 130mm fox 34 and still needed a 35mm rise bar with 5mm of spacers, albeit appreciating we all want different things.
Thanks for the info, yeah the Chameleon is tempting especially given this info, I like the looks, only downside is that everyone will want to steal it. Might have to find a medium to try out. As for bar height I run at 40 mm riser bar and 80 mm stem with a few spacers on my brand X, works fine or me. A frame designed around ~120 mm forks would be best.
Contrary to what was said earlier, it is perfectly possible to make short chainstay 29ers without a heavy yoke. I’ve done 405mm with tubes and clearance for 2.4 tyres. But it takes effort and creative design.
Good to know, as for seat angle I want max 74 degrees. Ain't got the equipment or time to make my own, plus I wouldn't trust it hah!
This is blatantly the answer you're looking for:
http://marinobike.com/order-form/
Full custom for peanuts...
Either that, or check how off the shelf options stack up when you mess with the axle-crown length (bearing in mind a lot of bikes are designed for longer travel, so you may end up with a mad low BB)
Doubt you'll achieve the weight you're after with steel mind.
For a long DJ bike check out the transition PBJ.
Maybe check out Invictus bikes in the UK, I have a 24" Dj bike built by them and its great. http://www.invictusbikes.com/
Or there are a few BMX companies in the US that will build you what you are looking for e.g. FBM, Standrd Byke Co. They won't be 2kg though.
I haven't the faintest idea about the angles on this one, but they must be doing something right, as it's been going for the best part of a decade...
https://cycleworx.co.uk/products/soma-juice-29er
even if you wanted a chameleon i'm told there's a good ( bad ) wait.
For a long DJ bike check out the transition PBJ.
Spot on geo but I think the seat tube is too short unfortunately, would dj bikes aren't really made for pedaling seated. Or could a mega long seat tube work?
JIVE: Marinobike is a really interesting option! Custom frame delivered in Germany for about 470 dollars incl vat. Asked what the build I want would weigh approx.
