[Closed] The road disk debacle continues - banned from French Sportives

Crazy-Legs, My quote in your post, its exactly that....... My quote, Like i've said countless times in this thread IF your job was to go out and feed the kids and pay the mortgage from how you perform as pro rider would you want to be faffing about unscrewing axles and waggling the disk about trying to get the blade seated between the pads without damaging the pads braking surface or leaving them scuffing? because once it's in situ you cant twist that adjuster to slacken it off a tad like you can on calippers, and as you may or may not know any scuffing is excentuated once the heat builds up in the reservoir,

As for F1 and their silly cars and 180MPH braking into corners, i think they rely on gravel traps if they get it wrong in twisty stuff, quite why you would perceive carnage in corners on a road ride spectator viewing and good for the sport is quite frankly stupidity, i'd prefer to see the attacks on the climbs and the Peleton trying to close down the gap to the lead out group, team tactics at the head of the peleton and the games that the pro's play with each other for tactics, and F1's own governing body implies rules on them, they too have to be of certain criteria, weights, dimensions, air flow, power.

Trying to judge the current standard of Elite level pro bikes brakes as inferior and likening them to drum brakes is laughable, As is your statement regarding out descending any one, there are Plenty of hills which i ride frequently that i pedal down and dont even brake, how are you going to apply your Power & Control over that? As for being more fun, seriously do you actually laugh and giggle as you descend believing all the crap you talk about safety, fun and your expert descending prowess?

I still think it goes against the grain of what makes a great looking road bike, they introduced disks then tweaked the axles, basically changed the road bike to more of a CX bike, so I can see why some don't like it, obvs there's those on here that don't don't like Aesthetics, tradition and the word Bidon, constantly looking for the next best thing,

And this is probably the thing that turns a lot of people off the road groups etc. it's not about "obvs there's those on here that don't don't like Aesthetics" which really makes it sound like we have no taste or can't appreciate what you like just things look different."obvs there's those on here that don't don't like Aesthetics" or conversely holing on to the past with those rose tinted specs and wool jerseys.

If we wanted to make road racing more fun we should probably take a step back to the days of amphetamines and brandy, non of the modern ugly drugs 😉

Do any of the pro disc brake voices ride competitively?

Do any of the pro disc brake voices ride competitively?

I wasn't aware that only elite sportsmen/women could comment on a given sport, equipment and the rules/bodies governing it, next time someone starts up in the pub about Chelsea or whoever I'd better stop them and check credentials...

Pro cyclists might be skilled and capable but they're not pefect, as with anything the vocal, "anti" minority seem to be pushing any debates their way, while some have said they're simply not sold either way...
TBF Several riders did start P-R with discs, so they're clearly not all united against the devil brakes...

mikewsmith is right, P-R was a prematurely aborted trial, because someone scraped his knee and then blamed the equipment on trial (despite it's not seemingly being involved).

And to be clear, I am not necessarily "Pro-disc" I am in favour of broadening the rules to allow their use, a precursor to which should be a proper trial...

Do any of the pro disc brake voices ride competitively?

I don't race (any more, I raced XC and DH at national level in 1990's), but I certainly ride bikes for fun and put in 300-350 km every week

I've owned lots of road bikes including:

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my current road bike:

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having fitted a Sachs hydraulic disc brake to a Rockshox fork before rockshox even had disc brake mounts, I've always been an early adopter of new technology in bikes, and have ridden disc brake mountain bikes since 1994.

But, I don't have any burning desire to get another disc brake road bike, the caliper brake bike works just fine for me, even in the wet. I prefer the aesthetic, the simplicity, the lighter weight - even with those deep section wheels my current bike is lighter than the old disc bike.

However, I can see the appeal for many riders, and if I wanted a heavy duty, foul weather commuting bike with drop bars and mudguards, I'd choose hydraulic disc brakes without pause.

Esher Shore, Be careful, you used the Aesthetic word there, there's a good chance that you will be branded a Luddite stuck in the past refusing to come in out of the cold.

i appreciate the fact the you find rim brakes more simplistic, which in essence probably describes the way I feel about the whole none disk strategy. Having been an early adopter of HOPE brakes back in 90's through to the Evo's I have on my big bike now, I can't ever see me riding a MTB without disks and bolt through axles, rear suspension and a dropped post. All these things are "to me" complicated items which need constant care and attention, fettling, setting up fine tuning cleaning and lubing, removing and sending off for servicing and warranty repairs.

A Ye-Olde rose tinted bike with rim brakes is as simplistic a bike as I require for road going duties and winter training activities, I can't ever see me requiring to go any faster down a hill because I've changed my brakes, if I'd spent money on expensive brakes I'd actually be pretty pissed off that it was faster down hill, if you get where I'm coming from?

Maybe one day we will all be scooting round on hover bikes, that's progression....... Personally I'm dreading that thought but here's hoping the majority of proper Cyclists on here adopt this new tech and then spread their infectious enthusiasm for all shit new and shiny, and down the old crap that doesn't work and never did.

Not content with discs, the UCI will be trialling these new frame modifications in the Giro..

Need it, if that's the next new must have thing then I'm all over that like a tramp on chips,

I bet that corners better than them old shit bikes that Luddites ride with clonky old calliper brakes and aesthetics and imagine the speed you could scrub off going into the corners with these ere disks, you could meet yourself coming back out the other side and live to tell the tale, we must embrace the new shit, it's the future

we must embrace the new shit, it's the future

Crash in TdY today. Any discs, any death by disc brake?

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Ned Stark allowed the south to use disc brakes

The bloke with the yellow overshoes is probably wishing chain rings had a guard on them.

Hitler used discs.

FACT.

[url= http://cyclingtips.com/2016/05/leaked-notes-reveal-that-uci-will-restart-disc-brake-trial-in-june/ ]BAN CHAINRINGS! [/url]

Evil things, I can't believe that they're allowed in this day and age

And were back cause it was a chain ring...
http://cycling-today.com/uci-wants-to-restart-disc-brake-trial-in-june/

I saw a picture someone was asked to make disc brake covers for one of the teams, cant find the sod now.

The bloke with the yellow overshoes is probably wishing chain rings had a guard on them.

Why the chain is still on the ring, so is in effect a guard. Guy in the red however, his arm is exactly where a rear disc would have been.

Anyway moving on, I was slightly surprised to find my disc front wheel really catching in a cross wind the other day, if I'd had deep sections on I genuinely think it would have been a handful.

Having been an early adopter of HOPE brakes back in 90's

When Hope were still based on an closed system I rode down a nice descent in the rockies, never been so scared in my life, I would far rather have had calipers on that day. Thank god the disc brake manufacturers have all moved to open designs now.

philxx1975 - Member
I saw a picture someone was asked to make disc brake covers for one of the teams, cant find the sod now

[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/the-road-disk-debacle-continues-banned-from-french-sportives/page/3#post-7653421 ]Jameso posted [/url] Shimano's US patent application for a road disk cover earlier on this thread.
I saw an actual pic of a custom made one too, but can't remember where :-/

Was at the Mallorca 312 at the weekend and plenty or riders using them there despite the Spanish having apparently banned them.

[i]
I saw a picture someone was asked to make disc brake covers for one of the teams, cant find the sod now[/i]

this?

[url=

View this post on Instagram

UCI has no plans to resume the disc brake trial according to [url= http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/uci-not-planning-to-resume-disc-brake-trials-anytime-soon-48037/ ]this article on BikeRadar[/url].

I'd assume that the manufacturers are beyond caring now as it certainly looks like discs on road bikes for the punters have gained sufficient momentum. Was quite difficult to spot a road bike without discs in the Eurobike coverage. My LBS tells me pretty much all the road bikes they're selling now have discs too.

Hope have got some new road specific rotors with a rounded edge and also full hydraulic road systems now:
http://road.cc/content/tech-news/203735-eurobike-2016-hope-show-new-road-calipers-and-hubs

Replacement for the venerable V-Twin system which I've got on my CX bike, specifically so I can also run bar-top levers.

I agree with you though, I think the disc brakes on road bikes is a no-brainer for the general public and the acceptance of them is now widespread enough to ignore the relatively few people who actually do proper road/circuit racing.

Still a rarity around here and the lbs cant shift em.

I'll be waiting for them to make the disc larger, more centrally located, perhaps it could be combined with another part of the bike, that would be the perfect engineering solution.

3 out of the 4 roadies I most regularly ride with have gone disc even though I had them down as real Luddites.
The fourth weighs as much as a used tissue and only has to breathe out to lose speed dramatically but he was adamant he wouldn't be going disc when he bought his new bike, a top end Cannondale which he got cheap.We all pointed out the reason it was cheap was it was non-disc but this didn't persuade him

Just about to get my disc defy 🙂

We all pointed out the reason it was cheap was it was non-disc

Didn't really care about discs on road bikes but if it drives down the price of bikes I'd want to buy then I'm all in favour 🙂

[quote=crazy-legs ]I agree with you though, I think the disc brakes on road bikes is a no-brainer for the general public

As in it's only those without a brain who want them?

It's been pointed out plenty of times on numerous threads on here that rim brakes work just fine on road bikes (and the vast majority of those who don't race or do group riding will likely never take their nice road bike out in the conditions where discs have an advantage). The usual line about luddites and comparison with discs on mountain bikes doesn't really apply - I was an early adopter of discs on my mountain bike because the advantages were clear.

My 'winter' bike has discs and my 'summer' bike has calipers. If it's dry there's no real difference between the braking (although I could lock the wheels on the disc bike with less effort if I wanted to). In the wet the disc equipped bike is much better, far more consistent and no half second "nothing's happening whilst the brake pads clear the water off the rim" feeling you get with caliper brakes. I can still stop quickly on the caliper brake bike in the wet but it's simply not as good.
For me the other big benefits to discs will come from being less worried about investing in fancy carbon wheels (as the rim won't wear out after a couple of years) and also it's probably better for tubeless (or latex tubes) to move that heat off the rim, although admittedly that's less of a concern in this country.
The only downside is maintenance is a bit more hassle and weight but those don't really bother me.

I'm still not convinced by disc brakes despite having 2 bikes with them (1 cable, 1 hydro) and I hate the way they often drag/rub after use. Calipers are much better from this point of view as they sit further away in the first place, and can be adjusted on the fly if need be.

It's been pointed out plenty of times on numerous threads on here that rim brakes work just fine on road bikes

You can point it out as many times as you like but that still doesn't make it true unless your definition of just fine is different to mine .

Can't help it if you have shit brakes. Or are shit at setting them up.

I saw an actual pic of a custom made one too, but can't remember where :-/

should see the ones we are making at the momentt with the air ducts to keep the disc cool F1 style ....i kid you not , and this is no tiny amateur team

Is this still going on?

Talk about denial.

I was slightly surprised to find my disc front wheel really catching in a cross wind the other day

I'm very surprised at that. I've been commuting year round, all weather (including gale force winds) on a disc equipped road bike for 13 years now, and I've never noticed the front wheel catching the wind.

I was slightly surprised to find my disc front wheel really catching in a cross wind the other day

I'd be surprised if this was anything to do with it having a brake rotor on it. It's usually the wind catching the rim and turning the front wheel. Wind pushing the disc would be a tiny amount of turning force compared to hitting the rim.

I have no issue with anyone buying a disc bike but why do they get so bothered by others not wanting or needing them?

I have no issue with anyone buying a disc bike but why do they get so bothered by others not wanting or needing them?

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I agree with you though, I think the disc brakes on road bikes is a no-brainer for the general public and the acceptance of them is now widespread enough to ignore the relatively few people who actually do proper road/circuit racing.

I wonder if it'll continue to stick when the general public realise they now have to bleed bits of their, previously simple, road bikes? Welcome to the world of wondering bite points, sticky pistons and joyful bleed procedures

Of course, LBS' will be lap up the extra jobs through the workshop

I wonder if it'll continue to stick when the general public realise they now have to bleed bits of their, previously simple, road bikes? Welcome to the world of wondering bite points, sticky pistons and joyful bleed procedures

I suspect those people would take their bikes to the LBS when brakes or gears need adjusting too, so likely no change!

wilburt - Member

I have no issue with anyone buying a disc bike but why do they get so bothered by others not wanting or needing them?

because the arguments are often not 'I do/dont need disc' but '[u]you[/u] do/dont need discs ...because [u]I[/u] manage fine'

To weigh in with my two pennies worth....

I can see why if you race, then you would not like them, more for the extra weight or aerodynamics than any injury risk. if i was a racer or climbing an Alp everyday in the sun, then i'd feel differently.

But for me, an average Joe, i bloody love them... i remember doing the Tour de Yorkshire sportive last year, coming down a 15% or thereabouts hill, absolutely chucking it down with rain and the road was basically a river, a 101kg me, braked in time and made the left turn at the bottom, i watched numerous lighter riders than me struggle to modulate their speed down, let alone stop including a poor guy who went straight over the junction and through the windscreen of a Transit.

Plus i have lost count of the number of times on commute home where the usual suspect BMW/taxi driver/ bus/ school run mum (take yer pick) has pulled out from a side road or across my path and i know whatever the weather i can stop, quickly, even with a heavy rucksack or bikepacking gear on, i couldn't do that on my previous road bike which had Ultegra well set up calliper brakes, they weren't bad, my hydraulic RS685 are just better and in all weathers..

As per my point earlier- I don't commute and rarely ride in the rain, for me the bike is a fun fitness, sports device.

Its like telling a downhill mtb'er they should be using panniers because you find them brilliant.

wilburt - Member
What next all BMX should have panniers because you think their the best way of carrying luggage?

POSTED 4 MONTHS AGO # REPORT-POST

wilburt - Member
As per my point earlier- I don't commute and rarely ride in the rain, for me the bike is a fun fitness, sports device.

Its like telling a downhill mtb'er they should be using panniers because you find them brilliant.

POSTED 21 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

Well at least you are consistent with your arguments but as analogies go those are pretty poor . You can still have a fun fitness sports bike with disc brakes , panniers on the other hand would ruin the performance of downhill or BMX bikes with no benefit whatsoever .

wow, my arguments have no chance in face of obsession!

ride on fella's.

Is it OK for me to want disc brakes on one of my road bikes but not on the other?

I feel like I'm sitting on the fence here.

Is it OK for me to want disc brakes on one of my road bikes but not on the other?

I feel like I'm sitting on the fence here.

I certainly hope that's OK, cos that's what I want too.

I wonder if it'll continue to stick when the general public realise they now have to bleed bits of their, previously simple, road bikes?

You have to bleed disc brakes? I have never ever had to do it on my mtb, why is a road bike different?

Last year I was all for my next road bike being disc. However this last summer I went to the Pyrenees and had rim brakes and didn't die. In fact I was glad of the lower weight.

So for now, my next road bike will be rim brakes.

You have to bleed disc brakes? I have never ever had to do it on my mtb, why is a road bike different?

You realise most of us have had to bleed disc brakes, numerous times?

I've never had to bleed a set of caliper brakes.

In fact I've barely touched my Ultegras in two years and they are still on the same set of pads.

I have bike's I race with rim brakes, a winter/ commuter bike with trp spyres and a pimp ass Sunday training bike with hydro disc brakes because I lucky and can. I certainly wouldn't go back to rim brakes on the winter bike, but I don't have any desperate desire to upgrade it to hydro's. I don't have an issue with rim brakes and like the performance of the hydro's, and probably feel overall these offer the best performance across a range of conditions. I won't have any issues letting rim brakes go when I can race on hydro's but equally I don't have any great desire for this to happen. I can't really get much more excited about the issue.

FunkyDunc - MemberYou have to bleed disc brakes? I have never ever had to do it on my mtb, why is a road bike different?

Assuming that you actually ride your bike, what brakes are these that never need bleeding?

legend - Member
Assuming that you actually ride your bike, what brakes are these that never need bleeding?

If your brake hoses have no leaks, why would they need bleeding? In over 15 years of running discs on multiple bikes, I've only ever needed to bleed them when I've trimmed hoses.

With all the p*ss-taking above, i have been genuinely surprised that only after a year and a half and nearly 8000 miles, the Shimano RS685 brakes on my Roubaix have needed bleeding this week, much less upkeep than any hydro brake on MTB.

bensales, ever owned a pair of Avid brakes? 🙂

It's unfortunate the way this topic always degenerates into those that only wish to ride in good condition for sport - who generally view rimbrakes as acceptable vs anyone with a different opinion.

The genie is well and truly out of the box. Most ranges now are reasonably populated with disc bikes, there are sufficient disc groups developed now that the technology is unlikely to be dropped anytime soon; and for most real world users they genuinely are a better day to day solution.

I really don't see the problem. Top level sporting equipment being 'different' is not new. If top level racing wants to mandate rim brakes then fine. It's not like anything new needs developing.

Where it becomes contentious is clubman level where people might want to race on their daily ride. These are the people really affected here as they need to compromise on safety for day to day to make possible peloton pileups safer.

[quote=vincienup ]It's unfortunate the way this topic always degenerates into those that only wish to ride in good condition for sport - who generally view rimbrakes as acceptable vs anyone with a different opinion.

Well no, you're misunderstanding the arguments being made. For example up there the suggestion was made that for joe public on a nice road bike discs are a no brainer. Well joe public only rides his bike in good conditions for fun/sport, in which circumstances rim brakes are just fine.

for most real world users they genuinely are a better day to day solution.

aha, and there you go generalising from your usage. For most users day to day riding there is a negligible performance advantage to discs. I certainly can't remember the last time I had a problem with the rim brakes on my bike and I probably do exactly the sort of riding the average road bike rider does.

I'm not sure anybody has said on this thread that discs don't have advantages in some conditions - I certainly accept that for some riders there is an advantage, and if I was getting a new utility bike I'd probably consider them. On the contrary it appears to be the disc brake fans getting upset that not everybody wants them and that there are some events where you can't use them.

Last month I did LEJOG with 8 other people . I was riding a Trek Domane with hydraulic disc brakes and everybody else was on rim brakes . On day 2 we came down a pretty fast descent , round a corner and there was a halt sign at a junction about 10 yards away . I stopped fairly comfortably before the junction but the person in front of me shot half way across the road . Now I may of had faster reactions or there may well be some other factors at play there and we were both going too fast for that road I will admit and I know that this doesn't prove anything . On one of the days in Scotland it rained all day and I was the only person in the group who could consistently stop well and quite a few of the others had no braking at all at certain points in the day . At a cafe stop I sat drinking my drink while everybody else was trying to degrease their rims as they thought something had got onto them from the road surface . Anecdotal evidence I know counts for nothing and I know plenty of people who ride with rim brakes and don't crash . Plenty of them can also descend faster than me . So there it , each to their own I guess .

and i have taken the mtb out on the road in the winter and got diesel i guess all over the discs and screwed the pads so i had no brakes. Works all ways. If you want discs feel free, if you don't so what. Ride the bike and stop worrying about the kit.

legend - Member

Assuming that you actually ride your bike, what brakes are these that never need bleeding?

TBH if your brakes need bleeding often, they're either faulty or you can't bleed brakes. (mostly it's because people leave air in the reservoir but I won't assume...) Last time I had to do one of mine except for a hose change or other maintenance/repair was 2009...

Rounded rotors to the rescue apparently!

http://www.bikerumor.com/2016/09/08/rounded-rotors-rescue-uci-allows-disc-brakes-back-pro-peloton-2017/

+1 for the "why do you need to bleed brakes" themes.

I've always found anything cable related much harder work. I'm probably incompetent, but that makes hydro discs a much more welcoming prospect for me. Though I probably have crap rip brakes too.

ive been pretty vocal on this earlier on in this thread for the against camp. For no other reason than the picture in my head of a road bike doesn't have disk brakes. So the real world bike I ride that I like to think represents the image reflects this.

I did however on a very soggy strines loop a few months ago wonder if disks would stop that grey grinding paste on the rims, sidewall, chain stays etc. Now that would be a bonus.
Then last Saturday we did another loop of the strines but this time on my Propel Pro 0 with carbon rims and guess what...... No caked on black gunky sheet.

My theory, it wazzed it down ALL day...... The descents were as wet as anything I've ridden and as steep as anything I'm probably going to ride so it confirms two things "to me" I made the right bike choice and I still don't need disks.

That's just me though, others may disagree and claim I do need disks. But I don't.

First UCi win on a disc braked road bike

[url= http://www.velonews.com/2017/01/news/tech-milestone-boonen-wins-first-race-with-disc-brake-bike_429063#r1fBeQRcYA2O3vq1.01 ]Boonen wins first race with disc brake bike [/url]

I get this.

Loads of riders, many with zero group riding skills, piling down long descents at speed - the last thing you need is somebody in front of you with no consideration for other riders, stopping way more abruptly than you can.

Based on his gushing Instagram post, it seems Boonen was [s]pleased with both the win and the bike[/s] very aware of what his sponsors want to see.

FTFT 🙂

Interesting debate. To me the benefits of hydraulic discs are that they don't wear out your rims (them wheels can be mighty pricey), are less likely to be effected by gunk/water on rims hampering braking performance and can't be impacted by cable stretch. On the flip side they're a bit heavier.

Interesting (given what some have said on this thread) that Boonen sees fit to say "It gives you better control of the bike braking into corners" which I'll take from a pro..

Hopefully this will go some way towards them becoming race legal so when I eventually replace my roadie I can get some!

"It gives you better control of the bike braking into corners" which I'll take from a pro..

Pro's are used to using carbon rims all the time which are notorious for giving poor control. May be singing a different tune if they were using alloy like 99% of non-racing riders.