[Closed] The reality of expensive technical gear and real worlders

Ofcourse it is.

I guess if you were going hard mixed winter climbing in, say, the middle of the Cairngorms you could probably justify it.

Taking the dog for a walk in the park, probably less so.... 😉

Is it all hype?

Even hard winter climbing is it a case of dimishing returns?

How many MRTs use Arcteryx gear?

Well, they've been winter climbing for longer than Arcteryxc have been around so you don't [i]have[/i] to have one.

How many people on here really need a £7k bike?

How many MRTs can hard winter climb

FTFY 😉

Other brands are equally expensive......

Interesting point on bikes - so bontrager trope light strong cheap choose two or pounds for smiles equation

Having owned a £450 Arcteryx Alpha LEAF jacket I can say that it did absolutely nothing my £150 Mountain Hardwear one doesn't do.
The fabric started to delaminates after about 6 month of ownership & I had a proper fight getting them to honour the lifetime warranty on it. When I eventually hit a replacement it went straight on eBay & I'll never buy from them again.
That aside, it's just like anything else really. Properly cheap through to reasonably expensive usually shows a fair improvement but after that it's either a small difference or simply the branding that you are paying for.

As always (nearly).Cheap is cheap for a reason.Expensive is to make yourself feel better (by making others feel worse).There is a middle road.

I think Arcteryx were very much like Apple back in the day: a premium product but innovative (welded seams etc). The rest of the market has now caught up and you're only really paying for the branding IMHO.

Yep, diminishing returns above around £200.

My first Arcteryx jacket cost £330 and lasted 11 years including a lot of abusive use - climbing with heavy rucksacks, hiking with skis on shoulders, scrunched up in a rucksack etc. It had one repair when some of the tape holding the waist drawstring came off; Arcteryx did it for free even though it was 7 years old, and it came back as good as new. I eventually replaced it because the zip puller broke and I thought I'd had my money's worth out of it. Bought a £150 Haglofs Jacket and after one skiing season it was in a worse state than the old Arcteryx. I went out and bought another Arcteryx jacket; if you're 3000m up a mountain and the weather turns you want something you can trust. YMMV

Can't go wrong with Arcteryx in the sale. I'm a fan, mainly because I'm lazy and like to just throw things in the washing machine after use. The waterproofing keeps going no matter how I treat, or not treat the items I have.

You pays your money etc etc .........

I have several Arcteryx sacs. All bought secondhand or clearance, I'm not THAT stupid. All brilliant in their own way, very well made, very comfortable.

I also have Arcteryx overtrousers which are the best cut I've ever seen. I wouldn't shell out (see what I did there?) over £400 for a jacket though.

I have got an Arcteryx top which I got in the sales. It's been well worth the money. Whenever I go out, especially around the lake district, I get people commenting on it. People will spend thousands on fancy car to get a similar reaction, but you can get exactly the same for just a few hundred.

Arcteryx is just the new pattagucci really isn't it?

And that's only there because North Face went mass market, as did Berghaus before them (I was lucky enough to have some top level berghaus samples cheap via a contact at the factory when it was all still made in Washington, and it really was fantastic stuff, the really expensive jackets now don't seem half as well made as the older gear.

Look at the real hardcore users though, and they are still happily using and abusing Buffalo and Keela and Brenig for half the price of the trendier labels

You see the same with motorbike kit. I ride 12,000 miles a year in all weathers so good kit is necessary. I have a Dianese textile jacket and trousers that cost ~£550 about 5 years ago. It's warm, totally waterproof and fits perfectly. It does everything I could possibly need.
But you can pay over £1000 for a Rukka jacket alone and it won't keep you any drier than dry. Sure they'll try and tell you it's better but it's not necessary.
A bit like expensive bicycles really... 🙂

traildog, you have your tongue firmly in cheek I hope?

I do hope that Traildog wears his watch [i]over[/i] his jacket sleeve....

🙂

Arc'teryx quality 10 years ago was market leading (I still use a 12 year old Alpha), now it is marketing lead because as mentioned elsewhere other brands in the market have caught up. The George Fisher sale is generally the cheapest place to buy the the top end stuff. Personally I have moved over to Marmot for my technical climbing shells - simple well made jacket and because not fashionable - cheap!
Worth remembering they are a tool designed for a particular job. They have a particular athletic cut that is designed for the target market using them over a layered performance clothing system - the days of thick fleeces are long gone, which means most people who buy them for the high street complain that they have to go up a size and the arms are then too long.
As for looking at what MRT etc use - depends on who is giving them the biggest discounts/sponsored supplier.

Does anyone pay full price for arcteryx?

Does anyone pay full price for arcteryx?

IT managers inside the M25

I do hope that Traildog wears his watch over his jacket sleeve...

My GPS watch and yes, this is allow it to keep a good signal. It also helps it to fit my wrist as I'm quite skinny and the watch is huge.

[quote=puddings ]......
As for looking at what MRT etc use - depends on who is giving them the biggest discounts/sponsored supplier.

A few years back it was all Keela, but the last clothing sponsor was Mountain Equipment.

mmmhh, I think some history is interesting here...arcteryx was founded 1990 in vancouver BC,
the founders had before a small company wich made climbing harnesses and quickdraws...the name was Rock Solid..
from 1990 until 2002 arcteryx was an independent small manufacturer and all goods where "made in canada", extremly expensive and highest quality for that time.. together with patagonia..
I still have an vancouver made backpack ,quality is brilliant and its still or better again in use !
2002 the company was sold to adidas-salomon and they sold it 2005 to
amer sports finland..
amer sports owns today among others also salomon, mavic, suunto, atomic..and sells toyota and french citroen cars in finnland
personally I think quality changed during the years, but is now again very high...

what technical ability can be gained over a £100 or £200 jacket?

In my limited experience in that price range you might see real difference. That is a bit like £500 to £1000 for a bike.

But you miht get a better deisgn and or materials.

I have a Paramo. This wouldn't work for everyone but its done me years of good service. Paid over £100 and will be replaced one day by another one. I'll probably wait for Sports Pursuites to do a deal and hope to pay around £150. Current retail is £225 I think.

My wife has one as well. She walks for a living it is used loads. Still going strong after 8 years?

Marmot for my technical climbing shells - simple well made jacket and because not fashionable - cheap

My wife has a made in Colorado down gillet. Back when they were a made in America brand....

Arcteryx stuff is good, but then so are lots of other brands where the jackets are only £250.

I just bought a RAB eVent jacket on clearance for £100. eVent is demonstrably far better than Goretex for temperate climates, but no-one seems to pay any attention to that and so people continue to shell out for £450 Goretex jackets.

I'm finding that cut, use and detailing has far more impact on performance than the latest fabric.
I buy the cheapest jacket from a good manufacturer - who can cut jackets/trousers well.
I'm not buying Patagonia (and I'm a fan boi) or Paramo for this reason.
I've found that Mountain Equipment, Montane, Rab and (usually) Berghaus all do a good cut/detail.
I wear waterproof materials far less, and use far more thin layers, windproof(ish) softshell etc.
No the £1k Patagonia jacket and trousers are not worth it.
I also find the difference is in longevity. A really cheap mountain warehouse product just falls apart at seams or fabric - whereas my ME jacket lasts until I wear through physically.

I just bought a RAB eVent jacket on clearance for £100. eVent is demonstrably far better than Goretex for temperate climates, but no-one seems to pay any attention to that and so people continue to shell out for £450 Goretex jackets.

Maybe a few years ago, but not quite as simple now. There are three main types of GORE-TEX – GORE-TEX, GORE-TEX Active and GORE-TEX Pro. Active and Pro are much more breathable than std GORE-TEX and comparable to eVent. Have a look a which material they use in high end shells.

Polartec Neoshell works best imo.

I also find the difference is in longevity. A really cheap mountain warehouse product just falls apart at seams or fabric - whereas my ME jacket lasts until I wear through physically

I also find the fit/cut at the cheaper end of the market is typically horrible.

Active and Pro are much more breathable than std GORE-TEX and comparable to eVent.

Under what conditions though? When I last researched, Goretex was more breathable than eVent when you were on top of a mountain in -20 and 10% humidity. But when it's 10C and 92% humidity Goretex performance falls right off. Because its performance depends on a temperature and humidity gradient, and that of eVent does not.

When did you do your research?
My observations are derived from real usage in the U.K., where I find little difference between Pro, Active, and eVent (on like for like garments). Significantly better than std Gore-Tex or paclite. Neoshell is best though. My findings are largely backed up by modern kit reviews, which agree that modern Gore Tex is no longer significantly inferior to eVent (have a look at something like outdoors magic for examples).

Don't pay much attention to the laboratory figures as manufacturers don't like to share the whole data, just the parts that make their products look good. Real world experience is the best data, but of course it is impossible to quantify in practice due to the variables.

I'd like to think those spending £400 on a jacket wouldn't blindly choose Gore Tex due to brand recognition alone, but I'm sure it happens. Much more so at lower price points though.