[Closed] The price of being a cheating, bullying liar? $10,000,000 (so far)

Poor chap.

Boss of that company (Bob Hamman) is a world class bridge player - the Merckx of the card table. Playing a long game there - bet he knew he'd be seeing that money back the day he paid it out.

I seem to remember reading he was worth 100 million...that's like me having to give up £2oo 🙂

Oh dear. Can he bully his way out of this one?

For gods sake give the guy a break, will the media not be happy until he's killed himself
He's cheated at sport, not comitted mass murder

Cheated, lied, careers shortened, mislead, fraudulent, bullied men and women and now a drink driver.

No not a mass murderer. Just a nasty piece of work that profitted and still kept himself in the media due to his ego.

If he 'killed himself'. Whose fault is that?

What about all the other pro cyclists who cheated and took drugs at the same time
Give the guy a break, have yiu never done something yiu regretted

If he'd show an ounce of regret I may have some sympathy for him.

It's his lack of regret, the hardship he caused others through bullying and ability, to have seemed to be reverting again to denial, which is why I couldn't care less what happens to him from a financial or sport point of view.

I've not lied, threatened, bullied and taken false legal action against people who questioned if he was clean.

I'd have given him a break if he worked with the authorities and paid back all the money.

NOT having to be taken to court. Even now.

Now everything is catching up with him.

The others? What about those who never made great money due to the cheats. The female pro rider who made 50k in her best year whilst her doping competitor pulled in 250k and now makes money on the back of her confession.

He called Emma O'Reilly a whore and tried to stop her getting work through slander.
No sympathy

easygirl - Member
What about all the other pro cyclists who cheated and took drugs at the same time
Give the guy a break, have yiu never done something yiu regretted

As others have said my utter contempt for him is based on his treatment of those who stood up to him.

He's firmly the author of his own destruction

I'll echo what easygirls says, many more blatant and prolific cheats have been welcomed back to sport with welcome arms. Time to move on

I'll echo what easygirls says, many more blatant and prolific cheats have been welcomed back to sport with welcome arms.

I am struggling to name any, so do tell.

I seem to remember reading he was worth 100 million...that's like me having to give up £2oo

His modern art collection was valued at over 100 million a few years back.

Going to agree with easygirl here. Bullying lol? That's part and parcel of the psychological warfare that goes on in all sports at the top level.

His modern art collection was valued at over 100 million a few years back

Bullying lol? That's part and parcel of the psychological warfare that goes on in all sports at the top level.

so, it's OK to spread rumours that a girl is a prostitute? It's OK to tell newspapers to sack journos, or face massive law suits?

I suggest if you don't know the background you do a bit of reading

Lance shows all the classic signs of a psychopathic personality type.
If he wasn't riding bikes he'd be in banking or politics.

Love a good Lance thread.

its a great place to observe the self-righteous personality types.

I don't care about his cheating.
What gets me is the way he ruined other peoples lives to fill his own pockets.
Ask yourself, how would you feel if someone bullied one of your children into taking drugs?

Hopkins don't troll.

I don't think the ruling against him goes far enough.
1. it doesn't cover the real cost of what SCA paid out, $9m + $2.5m in costs and that's before anybody mentions interest.
2. LA was under oath when he gave evidence to the court, sorry I mean when he lied. In the UK you can get jail time for lying to the court over a few speeding points.
Fail, not good enough.

If he wasn't riding bikes he'd be in banking or politics.

love how the typical STW banker bashing manages to squeeze itself into a thread about lance....

FYI...i work in banking. I've never met anyone even vaguely psychopathic...

 

But this is money he committed fraud to get. Why should he not pay it back?

Lance is most definitely a sociopath. Also, I used to work in Asset management/private banking and it is a profession which undoubtably draws them in - however these days they tend to get found out and removed.

FYI...i work in banking. I've never met anyone even vaguely psychopathic...

i've met 1 ceo. The one that ran my very big bank.

He wasnt remotely psychcopathic. Likewise i've met and worked for many of our directors, all actually quite decent folks

Don't believe everything you read...

What about taking all the profits that trek made on the back of armstrongs success, let's take all that back, and all the charity money he raised, let's take all that back.
He is ruthless, driven, but then again so we most top athletes, that's why they are at the top, he only done what countless other pro cyclists did, and he's paid for it, but let the guy have a little hope in his life

he's paid for it

Has he? when was that, again do tell.

What about taking all the profits that trek made on the back of armstrongs success, let's take all that back

Well if there is any evidence that they were part of his cheating in order to profit from it, they maybe they have a case to answer. Is there such evidence?

As for his charity, that's hardly a charity at all, just another part of his lie for money portfolio.

He can't race any more, anywhere......is that not punishment enough for a man like Armstrong
He's been stripped of his tdf wins

So his charity has not helped anyone, is that what you are saying

Say for instance you went out partying with guys from work, they all get coked up including you. A year later one of the guys get caught doing drugs and tells your bosses you do them too, effectively bringing you down with him. Are you gonna deny it or say he's a loser drug addict talking crap...... Now let's say your job you now could loose paid MILLIONS of pounds a year and if sacked you would be on the front page of every newspaper.

I'd have done exactly the same, doesn't make it right at all but don't pretend that most of use wouldn't have done the same.

I am saying his charity has helped Armstrong a lot lot more than it helped anyone else.

Easygirl if gave back all the money he wrongly earnt, completely gave the authorities everything he knew, who else was in collusion within management then disappeared to a ranch in Texas and shut up then he'd be on the road to redemption of sorts.

As it is he lied, threatened, bullied and defrauded.

Oh and NO most top athletes aren't like him. Ruthless & driven can mean focused on winning it doesn't mean 'at everyone else's costs'

Is that the charity that 'raises awareness' or 'ploughs money into R&D'?

Genuine question...

What about taking all the profits that trek made on the back of armstrongs success, let's take all that back, and all the charity money he raised, let's take all that back.

Careful with the chat about his 'charity money'. A careful look at what actually went on might not support your case as much as you think!

hora - Member

If he 'killed himself'. Whose fault is that?

Given recent threads on this very forum related to the nature of depression, one would think you'd be a little more sensitive.

Was Lance really all that bad?

[img] [/img]

so easygirl because he was competitive he should be allowed to keep his ill gotten gains and continue to profit from them?

Perhaps he should be let off drinking driving too because hasn't he been punished enough?

what a load of shit. he deserves everything the lying scumbag gets.

Daffy your taking that out of context. It was in reply to a poster who said that implying that he's almost being victimised /leave him alone . He's the author and architect of what he did systematically. He's not a victim. He's also said post-outed that 'everyone else did it'. Two greats left the sport when they saw the EPO crowd powering away. Boardman quit clean etc. Would Lemond have had another title if he had cheated but no he stayedclean.

He would have gotten away with it but did decided on a return.

When is he marketing the photos?

joshvegas - Member

so easygirl because he was competitive he should be allowed to keep his ill gotten gains and continue to profit from them?

TBH I'd be more up for taking away his cheating winnings if they also took away the winnings from all the other cheats, and more importantly imo the profits from the race organisers and teams who allowed and facilitated the cheating. As it is, it tickles my sense of unfairness to go after one guy as if he's all that counts when you've got an entire guilty industry which created him.

That's lessened a bit by the fact that the man's a shitehawk but it seems to me, that going after him harder for the cheating on the justification that he's a shitehawk is a bit weak. The offence wasn't shitehawkery after all.

There's an awful lot of guilty people in cycling that are delighted every time Armstrong gets villified, and that's basically shit imo. And I think a lot of road cycling fans who're happy to have a whipping boy too rather than admit their sport was a joke. And there's no fanatic like a recent convert eh.

Oh and NO most top athletes aren't like him. Ruthless & driven can mean focused on winning it doesn't mean 'at everyone else's costs'

Yes, yes it does.

For example, Ayrton Senna was almost as big a dick as Armstrong. The only thing that counts is winning and you do that by doing everything that you think you can get away with.

Lance shows all the classic signs of a psychopathic personality type.
If he wasn't riding bikes he'd be in banking or politics.

Or he'd be a surgeon, special forces, a Michelin starred head chef or any other number of professions that need high functioning coldly calculating types. Psychopaths have their place in society.

Some top performers are like LA or senna but many are not - I think its a little unfair to link Senna with LA tbh but i see the gist.
Its not essential to have that sort of mentality to be the best but you do have to be competitive to win.
For Senna and Schumacher you can have Vettel and hamilton.
For a LA you can have Chris Hoy
I am not sure where say Sir Steve Redgrave would feature as he seems a decent bloke
Not everyone winner has a win at any [ cheating basically] costs attitude.

For Senna and Schumacher you can have Vettel and hamilton.

Annnnd which group is greater, Senna and Schumi or Vettel/Hamilton? IMO the latter two will never, ever achieve the heights that the former two did.

And just because they seem nice doesn't mean to say you know what is actually going on behind the scenes. I bet the only thing they give a shit about is winning, Hamilton just has a greater fear of being caught than Senna or Schumi did, so is less likely to take obvious risks.

The $10 million is nothing to do with his winnings.

hora - Member
Daffy your taking that out of context.

I'm really not; you're implying that he should be systematically punished, punished so much in fact, that should he
feel that there is no "out", no light at he end of the tunnel, that when he "killed himself" that it would be an almost justifiable punishment; that he sowed the seeds and he's only now reaping the whirlwind. But that whirlwind is being fanned by yours and others hatred of the man and what he did.

That's not justice.

Here's the exchange

"will the media not be happy until he's killed himself"

My reply

If he killed himself whose fault is that?

How is that implying that he should be systematically punished?

How is the media hounding him? They are reporting current situation/fact on him

So don't imply malace.

you only want him to be given a break because you love him.

the arguments are all constructed [i]after[/i] the emotional tie you have to him. People pick and choose evidence to suit the position they want to take. But the position you take is built on what he represents to you, by being a great winner (and then dumping on you). If he's still a great winner to you then you'll want him to remain that way (and you deflect the evidence). If he's dumped you (as he has) then you'll want him to get fat and marry a minger.

i agree entirely with everything northwind said.....

Your statement implied that he was receiving JUST punishment, and that whatever the result, he brought it on himself..

I completely disagree, He should be allowed to compete once a two year ban has been served.

Not everyone winner has a win at any [ cheating basically] costs attitude.

Well.. over a certain critical mass in a particular sport then I think that's not true. If you can only win by doping, then by definition all the winners are dopers who are prepared to cheat.

I have no emotional attachment to LA, I didn't even start watching the Tour until 2007. I watched Vinokourov, crash and then, bandaged like a mummy, storm the next day's climb. It was amazing, it was inspiring, it was apparently drug fuelled...but still, it was pharmaceutically amazing. Vinokourov was banned for two years and then back again. LA should have the same opportunity.

I believe Vinokourov may have then cheated again, but we'll gloss over that.

tpbiker - Member
i agree entirely with everything northwind said.....

Me too.

Trying to look from a non emotional standpoint here.

A lot of people defended Lance and feel very let down, they had invested emotion into his story and believed that it could be true. They now feel bitter and let down.

He is high profile and what he did was organised and probably calculated. He was part of a drug cheating programme that has gone right through cycling.

Here is the other side.
The USADA went on a Lance at all costs mission, they allowed others who were taking and profiting from the drugs (not all had their arms twisted) to confess and take bans after they had left the sport. They seem to be keeping their pay cheques.
For Trek/US Postal etc. to claim it was a massive shock to see the team was doping is a bigger lie. What did they do to ensure that something that was prevalent across an entire sport was not going on in their team.

Cycling had a drug problem, or as it can also be put Drugs had a Cycling problem. Going after 1 man grabs headlines but allows others to sleep easy at night.

Lance is his own worst enemy in this as he loves to be on TV and in the middle of it all. Perhaps the biggest punishment would be to stop talking about him.

I agree with northwind too actually but why should people sue him to regain their money?

If you break the law and you get caught you lose what you have gained from it. His wealth has been built up and defended against people who spoke out against him. There are more people after hime because he stolen from more people. Its irrelevant what has happened to other riders if no one wants to sue them thats how civil law works no?

No Daffy. You are trying to make someone agree with what you read into it. Abit control freakish and wrong.

I applaud USADA. Cheats were caught and banned before and since. Floyd Landis dragged everyone through court in the vain hope he'd keep his Tour win etc didn't he.

North wind. One flaw in your thinking on tbis. Lance entered the contract that the performance bonus (of this lawsuit) had one stipulation- that he didn't cheat otherwise would forfeit etc.

So its not going after one competitor. Its contractual breach isnt it.

The USADA claim they gave him the chance to fess up and get a lighter ban. Truth? We don't know.

I'm a little sad it was the US authorities that blew it all open in the end and not anyone with international authority. The UCI has gotten away with a lot and was massively culpable.

Another thing, maybe speaking to Northwind's point, is that while the SCA thing is all on him (his bonuses) the dept of justice action is regarding sponsorship of the team is is not? So who's on the hook there? That must go further than LA personally?

Tom_W1987

Actually no .. Senna was a nice guy out of his car

One of my family worked for him in Europe.

Thing you have to remember, Senna was putting life at risk everytime he raced, so when something wasn't perfect (caused by others)that dedication was in-effect thrown away for that race or season.

Thing you have to remember, Senna was putting life at risk everytime he raced, so when something wasn't perfect (caused by others)that dedication was in-effect thrown away for that race or season

He was an arse that should technically have had his racing license revoked, an entertaining arse though.

Actually samunkim may have solved it. Away from the competitive sport they were perfectly normal and pleasant individuals. I dont think you can say that about LA and the way he destroyed folks lives [ some seriously underhand and unpleasant ways] to defend his reputation is hard to defend.

How can you compare Senna to this situation?

He put others lives at risk? What first corner incidents that also involved another who'd turn in/would slam the door shut/etc etc?

I wouldn't even bring him into a discussion. He wasn't a bully, from my mind he didn't cheat. He was bloody driven though wasn't he.

TBH when Nico Rosberg turned into Lewis's rear tyre- I'd say that was a spur of the moment racing decision that was wrong- not cheating. Yet it was blown out of all proportion.

Actually samunkim may have solved it. Away from the competitive sport they were perfectly normal and pleasant individuals.

Give the guy a break, have yiu never done something yiu regretted

The only thing Lance regrets is getting caught.

I completely disagree, He should be allowed to compete once a two year ban has been served.

Do you think the punishments for breaking the speed limit by 1mph and 50mph should be the same?

Do you think the punishments for breaking the speed limit by 1mph and 50mph should be the same?

Seems to be for the rest of cycling

Is it? The Armstrong case is without precedent, and he was punished in accordance with the existing criteria.

Without precedent of being caught, there has been serious team organised doping across pro cycling that let people off with slapped wrists

Without precedent of being caught, there has been serious team organised doping across pro cycling that let people off with slapped wrists

That has certainly happened in the past, and most people agree it was wrong to do so.

Great summary Northwind and it I think it gets to the crux of the argument. The man is a shitehawk and his shitehawkery is his greatest crime and failing as human being, but USADA et al cannot and have not punished him for being a shitehawk.

I do remind friends and colleagues that it is not so much that Armstrong doped, but that he was the kingpin of a sophisticated international drugs trafficking cartel. That crime caries a little more weight than someone who just doped or prepared themselves "professionally". LA could have co-operated with USADA and who knows what his sanction may have been had he done so too.

Hopefully the courts will be the right place to provide justice for LA's shitehawkery. Fraud, libel, slander, blacklisting and bullying are not doping violations or cheating actons to win a bike race at all costs. They are the crimes of a sociopathic shitehawk and the perpetrator must face these charges in court.

He should be allowed to compete once a two year ban has been served.

The thing is, Lance systematically cheated for years- he won many titles and races by cheating (clean people lost the opportunity to stand on the podium, earn more sponsorship money etc). I don't think he got away with it without help but the fact remains the punishment should fit the crime. Stripping him of 7 titles. That was right. The person(s) proven not to have cheated then got those spots where possible. Which shows there is some in the Pelaton who raced at the time clean.

As I said- he got all he deserved. No ones hounded him.

Looking back- remembering the pic of him sat at home under the 7 framed title jerseys of the Tour with the words 'just chillin with my titles' (or whatever) - it just shows his rank arrogance.

Not really sure what your point is mike. I dont know the Yorkshire ripper either or anyone convicted of murdering prostitutes. Am I not allowed to have an opinion on that ?

I dont think many folk would like to defend some of the things he did.

FWIW I have been following road cycling since before the internet.

Its fair to say others did as much as he did [ perhaps not to influence an entire team /operation] and got far lesser punishments.
Has he been unfairly punished. I think he has been punished as a deterrent to others and as an example.
I tend to think a lifetime ban is excessive but how could you ever believe he was competing clean. Even now he says he would do it all over again.

hora - Member

Looking back- remembering the pic of him sat at home under the 7 framed title jerseys of the Tour with the words 'just chillin with my titles' (or whatever) - it just shows his rank arrogance.

[IMG] [/IMG]

JY - Actually samunkim may have solved it. Away from the competitive sport they were perfectly normal and pleasant individuals. I dont think you can say that about LA and the way he destroyed folks lives [ some seriously underhand and unpleasant ways] to defend his reputation is hard to defend.

Not really sure what your point is mike. I dont know the Yorkshire ripper either or anyone convicted of murdering prostitutes. Am I not allowed to have an opinion on that ?

You don't know LA, you don't know drug cheats, you don't know ruthless people who don't cheat. You read the press, you read what the USADA PR machine told you, you read what people what you to think... there are f'wits in the world he is one of them but the focus in LA is clever as it forgets what the rest of the pro cycling world has been up to

Everyone else may have been taking drugs, but Lance always won - ergo, Lance was the best at taking drugs.

Simply, the pursuit of Lance is forgetting the rest of the guilty.

you read what the USADA PR machine told you

You do know what their remit is don't you? Have a read up on them.

but the focus in LA is clever as it forgets what the rest of the pro cycling world has been up to

Catching cheats from what I've heard.

Simply, the pursuit of Lance is forgetting the rest of the guilty.

It's forgetting the cyclists who didn't win the yellow jersey. If Lance hadn't been a champ, he wouldn't be worth pursuing.