[Closed] The lovely new land owners at Cranham - i met them today!

nice to see it is not just the cyclists getting it, i wonder about the horses though as there are a number of permissive bridleways in those woods.

They are right though about cyclists having no right of access, CROW is for walkers only.

You wouldn't happen to have a description just in case i see them?

They are deffo the new owners as they were waiting in the the mill

He was just under 6ft tall, overweight and balding, in his 60's/70's at a guess with a lovelly tank top and shirt on.

My guess is they can't really do anything and will just keep being unpleasent to people in a bid to stop people going there. Don't think it'll work though.

Judging by his physique i don't think there is any chance of him chasing us

" Excuse me but i am the new landowner, and i own everyting this side of the road from the junction at the top all they way down

Yes, shrine area, the mill the house a mile and a halk past the house and back the other way to the road

Did he say if he owned it down to the sawmill or further?

Did he mention why he was trying to stop access?

From Natural England - i know it's walkers only etc but what can they really do! the police are not going to go hunting round a wood for soeone on a bike!

Open Access land
Under the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 (CROW), the public can walk freely on mapped areas of mountain, moor, heath, downland and registered common land without having to stick to paths.

People across England now have approximately 865,000 hectares of land across which they can walk, ramble, run, explore, climb and watch wildlife as they are given the freedom to access land, without having to stay on paths.

The new rights, for which people have been campaigning for over 100 years, came into effect across all of England on 31 October 2005.

But I'm the new land owner of that part of cranham woodz. :D. Anyone can say they own the land but where'd the proof? Did he show you the paperwork? Worst case, trespass? Civil matter, the feds won't be interested. Business as usual, nothing to see here.

the feds won't be interested

So he owns the land, just like you may own your garden, or parking space, get real and find somewhere else to ride, before tyou tar all cyclist with the dirty brush.

He also has the availability of removing you by force if you faoil to stop trespassing on his land, and it may not be him but his hired staff.

I say we lynch him or at the very least tar and feather !

Like they did to [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Rothman ]this bloke[/url] and his mates?

So he owns the land, just like you may own your garden, or parking space, get real and find somewhere else to ride, before tyou tar all cyclist with the dirty brush.

Yep will do, then someone else "buys" a little bit more and so on and so on, I know i'll just ride on the road

Project lol

I know i'll just ride on the road

So this is an example of what happens when a wood / forest is sold off 🙁

@project, problems as follows, i have been riding in the woods for more than 20years, others were there before that. I have documentary evidence of horses in the woods over 100 years ago. There are permissive bridleways in the woods that have been there for decades. And the whole site is leased to English Nature who operate it in accordance with CROW.

As for recourse, he can ask us to leave and use force to move us on if we don't go. As the point is to go, what can he do?
[url= http://media.primelocation.com/SPGR/LFCI/LFCI_CRN080068/BROCH_01.PDF ]the forsale notice. [/url]

As for what he wants to do, he is English and rich, "it is mine all mine"

[img] [/img]
GET OFF MY LAAAAAAAAAND

i have been riding in the woods for more than 20years

EDIT: crap. Over 30 years. I really am getting old.

Bad news this Hopk1ns.
I had the displeasure if meeting the new 'owners' on new years day.
I was hoping things would just quieten down after that but obviously not. 😐

As i lived in stroud i remember we cycled at Randwick woods, rodborough common and a around painswick, theres plenty of places to ride, he just doesnt want you riding in his wood does he.

If he wanted a trail centre he would have been to B and Q, and bought a wooden shed, and a kettle,along with a load of stone for a car park.

If he wanted a trail centre he would have been to B and Q, and bought a wooden shed, and a kettle,along with a load of stone for a car park.

[img] http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ6VZLrJ8UMNphqsxVfCjk4A4oAY8OpT8y3zaChYT9AWijlLWXhIA [/img]

@project as i live in Cheltenham and ride from home, Rodborough is a tad far for an evening pottle, which is what Buckholt is ideal for.

Anyway if he is old he'l be dead soon and the woods will still be there. No one owns land, you are just the custodian for the next generation. i believe the land belonged to Gloucester Cathedral until the dissolution of the monasteries when it was given to the cronies of the crown. How things change.

Ah but the woods may be gone sooner rather than latter along with all those government agencies tree hugging them.

Probably be an ASDA in the next 5 years.

Disclaimer, there are other supermarkets that may also move there as well.

I haven't got time to get into the detail of this now - off to the Alps for a week's snowboarding at 4.30 tomorrow morning - but if you have been riding there for 30 years or more there's a reasonable chance of there being a public right to do so now anyway. It depends on the circumstances. If you are interested in knowing more email me (address in profile) and I will reply when I get back.

Oh and he also tried to make out it wasn't there fault and that they didn't want to be "spoil sports" but it's because of rare plants etc!

Oh and he also tried to make out it wasn't there fault and that they didn't want to be "spoil sports" but it's because of rare plants etc!

which is something to be aware of if the government gets its way with selling woodland. Every body has its own pet project, the RSPB will look out for birds the woodland trust will ban bikes etc.

Yes there are rare plants, but the owner would do better to fence areas and put up signs explaining why rather than a blanket ban that they have no hope of enforcing.

He also has the availability of removing you by force

I don't think he or his agents are allowed to use force. I think they can only escort you to the nearest boundary/exit.
Obviously I stand to be corrected.

Anyone got a map of the area affected? Mrmo - seem to remember that you had a stash of maps

@bushwacked, if you click on the forsale link on my post above it should heelp

So am I right in thinking this only affects the land on the north side of the sawmill ie the shrine runs? The trails which start on the right of the red/white house are still unaffected

That is correct, the race track side is still ok (apart from the felling at the mo)

Ignore this reply, just doing it so I can keep track of the situation.

He said he owned one and a half miles on the otherside of the house as well. So he owns from the road junction at the top all the way past the mill, past the White house and for another mile and a half, all on the mill side of the road

[url= http://http://media.primelocation.com/SPGR/LFCI/LFCI_CRN080068/BROCH_01.PDF ]The sale notice[/url]

So, who thinks this is a big issue or not?

I'm thinking it could be if he starts blocking trails

for sure, and i wouldnt be at all surprised. which reminds me, hows things at your project?

Gaining good ground, starting to focus on putting in some XC/AM lines and a more technical dh line along side the existin lines and a route to ride back to the top without causing coronaries.

@project, problems as follows, i have been riding in the woods for more than 20years

Only needs a few of you to get together apply for common rights and you've got it forever - nec vi, nec clam, nec precario!

Bushwacked, when you say XC line, are we talking 5km XC race course or less DH orientated downhills?

Mrmo - I'm trying to put in a loop which takes in some of the downs and brings you back up Traversing the hill in both directions - so far got about 2 km sketched out in my head from the top to the bottom but neeed to bring it back up and as its quite steep that is needing more thought. Should be able to get about 5km easily.

If you or anyone you know want to help plot it out drop me a line.

might have to pop up and have a look sometime, i believe the UCI guideline is 15min a lap for elites, so if the plan is ever to hold evening races or the like might give something to aim at.

As for getting back up, all i can think of is don't go as far down or zig zag back up, or both.

mrmo - Member
There are permissive bridleways in the woods that have been there for decades.

You do know what "permissive" means?

i know what permissive means, but the decades bit, closing them is likely to lead to a lot of ill feeling and because of the time they have been used for, i see the land owner fighting a loosing battle.

Thought you could apply for bridleway status if you'd been openly riding it for 12 years. Could be wrong.

Mrmo - happy to show you round sometime and show you what has been built and explain the plans etc

From the ramblers assoc website:

The grounds on which a right of way claim may be made

A right of way may be claimed on the basis of user evidence (i.e. evidence that the public has established a right of way by using a defined route over a period of time), or documentary evidence (i.e. evidence based on historical documents such as tithe maps), or both.
Claiming a right of way using evidence of public use

In order to make a claim for a right of way based on public use you’ll need to be able to demonstrate all of the following:

* A period of at least 20 years uninterrupted use by the public, counted backwards from the date when the public’s right to use the way was called into question. If the public's right to use the path has not been called into question the 20-year period should be calculated backwards from the date of your DMMO application.
* Use should be 'as of right', which means without secrecy, force or the express permission of the landowner. But there's no need for the public to have believed it was a right of way they were using.
* Use must be by the public at large, not just certain tenants or employees of an estate.
* Use must follow a linear route.

Use must follow a linear route

Correct! oh well - ride and be polite until the very end.

Use must follow a linear route

Well thats the shrine trails out then.

The shrine is linear, in a drunken saturday night sort of way...

Bit odd anyway, almost no path is linear as they are rooted to avoid obstructions, steep ground, marshes etc.

Well it was always on the cards if it was sold a problem would arise.What can you do Lord of the manor and all that.Not that its great to loose the shrine but if any have to go thats the best one.Racetrack wood is owned by a Lady who is sound.Does this mean that car park is going to be closed just of the road?Where does the new owners live is it down the track past the white house?Builders have been down there for a long time.Maybe he will get piss off keep bollocking people.

Wonder what he paid for the land?

Why are some land owners such ****holes, yet some are really cool.

I hope people have given this story to the forest of dean people, fuel to fire over there and the rest of the country.

the guide price was £700,000, how much it went for, i guess, can be found out from Land registry, but not sure how.

Its been suggested to try and arrange a meeting with the landowner and try and put the positives across of what we do. Any ideas how we might make contact? And preferably not just running into him out on the trail. Its probably not a good start when covered in mud and sweat, even if its your sunday best pair of baggies. 😉

I am up for that. I'm sure I could find out. I work for landed(very) members of the aristocracy and can speak their language. Thats if it comes to it, which by the sounds of things, it might(envisage big logs, fencing etc) . Esp when the weather gets nice and its like a trailcentre with kids getting handy with spades. I wouldnt hold your breath though, if they have paid big money they will have a idea of how they see the future(a green and pleasant legacy). Now if that does not even involve horses, which as we all know that horses and dogs are the only things that get affection from the uptight gentry, we could be onto a loser.

Have you checked the definitive map with your local authority? It's not unknown for paths to be not marked on incorrectly assigned (i.e. a bridleway as a footpath). I appreciate this probably won't help with your trails in the wood themselves but at least you'd have a legitimate reason to be riding there.

i wondered when this would rear its head, we have been ridng there for well over 20 years, we have rights of way.
we need to sort proof of use, photo eveidence, bigfoot ride mags, i have loads, also, the shrine was not just thrown down.... lol i took a long time planning that out, along with a couple more like minded folk.
maybe we should sort a meeting and discuss a diplomatic apraoch but have a more strategic backup plan. ok Mr Hopk1ns kis kis

Initial meet for riders? sounds good. butchers arms in sheepscombe, or further away? Be great if bigfoot could be there.

Seems much has happened since my last ride up there then.. have been out with the pooch a few times over the winter though and not seen the new owner.
Would be interested in knowing more about future developments so keep posting and hopefully we can come to some arrangement that benefits everyone?

Maybe a good idea to have a meet?maybe not? what happens if you get no where then you have shown your hand not to mention your face!Difficult one to judge.I would take the chance and keep riding it.I am local but alot who ride it are not.

evidence of riding in the woods.
[url= http://www2.glos.ac.uk/bgas/tbgas/v005/bg005201.pdf ]west tump. [/url]

can anyone find anything older?

That looks perfect mrmo, that surely proves that horses have used that part of the woods for 100 + years. Would that be a permissive bridalway?

I think a rider only meet up to start with, so a least if/when we have to meet the owner we have some sort of local responsible response. I think it will need to happen before the busy season. We can't account for everyone but I have a sinking feeling of the inevitable.

Na, it'll be cool tang! They ave to catch us first 😀

I don't know the place or the people, so apologies if some or all of this is useless / ignorant / already in the process of being done.

There's lots you can do aside from being passive.

Have you made contact with the ROW officer at your local authority?

Have you talked to the local horse riders? If there's no immediately visible organisation, just ride up to the local livery stables and ask - once the riders get over their surprise, they can be very helpful, and I'm guessing they'll be interested in helping you out with contacts if they are having the same problems. Bear in mind horse owners tend to be very well connected types.

Also look up your local Countryside Access Forum and see if you can get some questions about the wood put on the next meeting's agenda - it gets widely read (well, certainly at the Surrey CAF). Meetings are quarterly.

You might also want to speak to Ian Warby at CTC, and other local landowners who may know the guy.
Bear in mind that some landowners are not that 'up' on liability issues, and see horses, cyclists et cetera as a potential risk as much as anything else. This guy may think he's doing the right thing - certainly he's not physically blocking access yet.

There's lots you can do if you stay polite and positive and get organised. I've been involved over the last eight years or so with talking to local landowners and land managers, and, while it takes time, it brings a lot of rewards for mountain bikers. Getting them to realise we're not a bunch of two-headed louts is a great first step - and it sounds as if at least one local landowner is already there.

HTH - and best of luck.

Thanks bent some food for thought. I happen to know the row officer at glos council and he is a really sound guy. Well connected with local landowners and hoping for a few favours if need be.....
Lookma you know how slow I am...

Thoughout our little chat both of us were v polite. I think the diplomatic approach is the way ahead, and I hope his current view of us is not what we are really like. But what worries me is the horses, that surprised me. I think they just don't want anyone there. He did say he owned a mile and a half the other side of the White house, but looking at some boundary maps of bucklholt woods ( not for sale) they end at the car park before the short rooty climb and with the track down to the house, so I guess he was fibbing about how much he owned.

The chap that lives in the house deep down the hill in the woods is a friendly chap with no worries. He even apologised once for tarmacing his drive and making the climb easier.

It's all very well thinking I'll just ride there anyway but it won't be a very relaxing ride.

Hi hairy or should I call you slam these days, kis kis - cranham seems to breed these problems eh? You should know

Hi Hop its funny you say that about how far he owns was talking to a mate earlier saying about the house which had there drive done,that he cant own that.So how much does he own?Was riding up there when the workmen were doing it they said i would never make it what do they know :lol:.Hi Hairy remenber when you first put the shrine in winter 200?saw you up there said it was new trail and needed bedding in you suggest a different form of two wheels to bed it in,did a few goes to help it on its way 😉

There is a similar discussion going on within Chelt and county club. We're keen to have a discussion with landowner after getting an understanding of the lie of the land up there. Sounds like there are a lot of people who will be affected.

Mmm cheltenham and county, 20+ riders on a ride up I'm cranham ain't too good for cheeky trail riding.....

not to mention trailers and bow saws..... 😉

That'll be trail maintenance that 😛

tell him you're litter picking, might win him over. you working thurs?

Nights! I'll drop you a mail mate.

lookmanohands - Member
Mmm cheltenham and county, 20+ riders on a ride up I'm cranham ain't too good for cheeky trail riding...

pete, 20 is high but certainly mid teens.

I think the point is we are being cheeky on some of the trails and groups(I've seen groups of 15+ many times, who they are, not sure)leave a bigger mark esp when ridden in bad conditions. For me its mainly been a solo ride, quietly passing through when its not muddy. Now if you are a twitcher or someone who likes the peace of the woods a group of riders does clatter along. Its a sensitive area therefore we should all act accordingly and take a little responsibility.

Don't know the area that well but have ridden around there a few years back

Just a small point is it full on cheeky or did someone once say 'ah go on you can ride through'

looking at the sales details it states in the general conditions of the sale previous agreements for easement and crossings will still stand or something to that effect

If the land is leased to natural England surely it's there job as the lease holder to police 'there' land not the 'owner'

Nearly all the best riding spots from my childhood are gone or fenced off now but I still go there when I can and would argue till I was blue in the face that I have 'earned' the right to be there as I care for the area I guess you feel the same

Good luck

Lol @ lookma!