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When it works (99% of the time) it's magnificent. But when it breaks or you forget to charge it electric shifting is a pain in the rear.
Currently my di2 battery keeps running flat after a week or so. No idea what component is causing this, and it's an intermittent fault the lbs can't identify. Don't even know what part to replace first...
If I only had one bike, it would definitely be mechanical as I value reliability. And in truth, the shifting on my gravel bike's tiagra, even when covered in gunk and never washed, is 99% as good as the sram red on my best road bike which cost x8 as much and is kept spotless.
I am now faced with Clues or some crap like that to build a similar bike
Cues, crap for a shopping bike? I'd happily use it for my touring/bikepacking bikes and I don't put any junk on those. Cues is the one component area that's keeping me happy these days - drops or MTB shifters, matches up with old 9/10s kit, plenty of mix/match options, I like it.
When it works (99% of the time) it's magnificent.
99% is much better than what feels like 50% of the time for me and mechanical shifting. There's always something that's not quite right.
take Shimano's non-adoption of UDH as a good sign for us non tech-fetishist types.
SRAM seem to be trying to standardise frame design to fit their kit, like the new brake mount they're talking about. Yet SRAM and Shimano will both prefer to create competing standards.
Should be more tolerant of mis-aligned hangersWhy? Mech moves a predetermined distance per shift whichever mechanism it uses.
I am now faced with Clues or some crap like that to build a similar bike.
CUES is brilliant.
Crap name, great set of parts. Cross compatibility within itself, even across speeds, super durable. It's basically a fit and forget groupset.
There's always something that's not quite right.I think this is a you/installation problem... Most of my bikes will go a minimum of 6 months between even being touched. And then it's usually only an 1/8th of a turn. (Excepting CX/winter bikes that usually need new inners at the half way through the season point.)
TBH, the only real use case for me to have Di2 would be on an all weather/winter/gravel bike. As that's generally the only bike that needs more frequent service or adjustment than once in a blue moon.
And i've tried most of the electronic options out there, but only got one bike with it on.
Yeah but that nice tactile click on my SRAM Red Dura Ace shifter never gets old
I am with Tired and Jameso.
A bike ride (for me) is a beautiful mechanical thing, I have no need (or desire) for anything electronic other than a Garmin and lights.
Having said that, I don't race any more, but can imagine in an 'every second matters' moment on a TT bike,a clean perfect shift with a button must be lovely.
But now I'm looking at gravel bikes and it looks like I'm stuffed. For the model I want, I've found a 2024 version and a 2025 version. The 2025 takes 50mm tyres, which is 5 mm more than the 2024 one. And that is pretty much a key priority.
I haven't read the entire thread, actually I haven't read any of it bar the original post, but just wanted to say that ime 45mm tyres are plenty big enough for pretty much anything round here, I tried fast-rolling 50mm ones and they felt sluggish by comparison, 45mm still pretty good cush, but faster rolling, 40mm faster again, but you lose a bit of cushion. Before I rode them, I thought 50mm would be the bomb, but for me they weren't. I'd probably buy a super light hardtail if I felt I really 'needed' 50mm tyres. Obviously YMMV, but that was my experience. You can also fit 650b wheels with proper bigger tyres in most gravel frames.
I'll maybe skim through the rest of the thread now...
I don't want electronic shifting on anything thanks. There's enough tech shite in the world without it turning bikes into a load of overly complex, battery-dependent rubbish.
1. the battery life seems quite short for multi-day exploring in the boonies
I've got it on my mountain bike which I'm riding 4 times a week currently in summer.
Those aren't all day rides, but still think I'm getting 3 weeks to a month of use out of a charge - which I do when my garmin tells me its "low" battery which I think means 30% left.
Maybe I'd take a spare battery for multiday wilderness trips - or take one in the car for a multi day riding holiday - but the "but you need to charge it every ride" people are definitely, as they say on the internet, creating a strawman.
I haven't read the entire thread, actually I haven't read any of it bar the original post, but just wanted to say that ime 45mm tyres are plenty big enough for pretty much anything round here, I tried fast-rolling 50mm ones and they felt sluggish by comparison, 45mm still pretty good cush, but faster rolling, 40mm faster again, but you lose a bit of cushion. Before I rode them, I thought 50mm would be the bomb, but for me they weren't. I'd probably buy a super light hardtail if I felt I really 'needed' 50mm tyres. Obviously YMMV, but that was my experience.
Interested in this comment, I had been basing my next buying decision on 50mm tyres but as you say, I realised there was too much overlap with the 29er, at least 45mm would maintain some sort of distinction and be a bit lighter etc.
I haven't read the entire thread, actually I haven't read any of it bar the original post, but just wanted to say that ime 45mm tyres are plenty big enough for pretty much anything round here, I tried fast-rolling 50mm ones and they felt sluggish by comparison, 45mm still pretty good cush, but faster rolling, 40mm faster again, but you lose a bit of cushion. Before I rode them, I thought 50mm would be the bomb, but for me they weren't. I'd probably buy a super light hardtail if I felt I really 'needed' 50mm tyres. Obviously YMMV, but that was my experience.
Interested in this comment, I had been basing my next buying decision on 50mm tyres but as you say, I realised there was too much overlap with the 29er, at least 45mm would maintain some sort of distinction and be a bit lighter etc.
You should have an aero benefit on gravel over an MTB, so the 50mm should feel quicker to some degree.
So, do I buy the old model with decent gears, but limited tyre clearance or the new one with decent clearance but a transmission setup that I despise?
Mason still do their Bokeh with clearance for 50mm tyres at the front, and 2x12 GRX mechanical. Mine is a great bike.
I went mechanical GRX because I just couldn't face the idea of leaving all that electronic jewelry in the company bike shed for anyone to stroll off with.
Not sure I'll rush to them. Bikes are supposed to be simple. I've been in a bike shop several times recently when people have shown up trying to get their flat battery charged mid-ride. I guess you can take a battery to charge them from, but seems like people don't. Seems like a bit of a pain really.
I don't think i'm a luddite. I agree with most trends on MTB's and I hate front mechs (as much as gravel bikes) with a passion.
I've got AXS on one bike. It's nice but I really don't know what it does beyond change gear at a vastly higher price point. Saves on routing a cable? Never really been an issue. Setting gears with screws? Not a problem.
I could understand for a road bike if you can sort your whole range to be sequential so you dont need to shift at the back when changing gear on the front. On a 1x mtb i just don't see the point
And since we all live with multiple electronic devices from mobile phones to cars that we seem to be able to charge up with no issues
Not sure about “no issues”. Anyway… imagine if someone brought out a mobile phone that you never had to charge, never ran out of power, it could do everything your battery powered version could do… and as a bonus was so much cheaper that it could make the fear of having your phone stolen, or dropping and breaking it, all but vanish… as replacements and spare parts were so affordable.
I've got AXS on one bike but just because the whole thing was half price and that is what it came with. I have to say it's pretty impressive. I've no doubt that if I'd had the choice at the time of the identical bike with cables then that is what I'd of gone for. So far I'm actually happy I didn't have that choice as in operation there is no doubt it's nicer to use.
I'm not one to rush into new tech on the bike, it took me a good few years to even move to indexed gears. I'm still perfectly happy with the deore 10 speed on my rigid bike and my Rohloff is the epitome of it's got it's on perfect but it just goes on working year after year.
I hope the choice remains because different things are better for different jobs.
I can only base my contribution on my own experience, that is to say I've been running XX1 Eagle AXS on my MTB for 2 years now, and it's been flawless. Like, completely. Zero adjustment required in that time. Maybe I've been lucky, but I can't recall anything close to that level of consistency in any previous set-up I've used. IME, charging is a complete non-issue. It's quick to do, and isn't that frequently required - I barely think about it.
Naturally, I agree that manufacturers should still provide cabled options.
As a sort-of aside I've had to look through some battery regulations this week. Let's just say if you were about to start a bike company it'd be a lot easier if it avoided anything that used batteries.
When it works (99% of the time) it's magnificent.
99% is much better than what feels like 50% of the time for me and mechanical shifting. There's always something that's not quite right.
I have multiple bikes. I cannot think when I last adjusted the gear cables. Years ago
As a sort-of aside I've had to look through some battery regulations this week. Let's just say if you were about to start a bike company it'd be a lot easier if it avoided anything that used batteries.
you know how bike companies work and I don’t. But would this still be an issue if you bought a component from one of the two largest component manufacturers and affixed it with a single bolt to the rear of your bike? Is any potential problem, regulation, certification etc not laid at the door of sram/shimano here?
ime 45mm tyres are plenty big enough for pretty much anything round here, I tried fast-rolling 50mm ones and they felt sluggish by comparison, 45mm still pretty good cush, but faster rolling, 40mm faster again, but you lose a bit of cushion. Before I rode them, I thought 50mm would be the bomb, but for me they weren't. I'd probably buy a super light hardtail if I felt I really 'needed' 50mm tyres.
Do many in the gravel world run a wider tyre upfront and narrower rear?
That's what I run on my commuter (which is more in the area of 26" hybrid/rigid-mtb) and it's pretty good. Something like a Marathon on the rear (can't remember exactly) pumped up hard and an old 2.1" Kenda Nevegal much softer. It's generally the rear tyre which causes drag, and wears quicker, so narrower, faster rolling, higher pressure reduces that, while wider softer and knoblier up front reduces wrist/elbow pain over rough terrain. It's almost a best of both worlds with a pinch of compromise. Need to be pretty active with body movement over ruff stuff but lots of fun on the commutes at the moment 😀
And it's a no from me on wireless shifting, mostly due to expense, but also am one of the luddites who enjoys the fact my bikes don't have electronics integral to their functionality. Rarely have I had perfect shifting, I'm not convinced that components are heading in the right direction for those of us at the lower end of the (wishing they could afford to be an) enthusiast market.
Do many in the gravel world run a wider tyre upfront and narrower rear?
I do, but only because my fork will take a wider tyre than the frame (42 Vs 38), I'd run the same tyre at the rear if I could.
(wishing they could afford to be an) enthusiast market.
This, and the price of pretty much everything, makes far more sense when viewed through the prism of the buying power of Dollar or Euro (or these days, Yuan) salaries.
We're making redundancies at the moment so I weas idly looking at job postings. Roles in Benelux countries or Germany were paying consistently 50% more, the USA is over double (although substantially blunted by health insurance)! Not being able to afford Di2 is a British thing apparently.
Is any potential problem, regulation, certification etc not laid at the door of sram/shimano here?
For many aspects of the battery itself yes as they're the manufacturer. The bike brand still has overall bike testing to do and responsibilities under general product safety and other EU regs, plus storage concerns in case of higher capacity batteries, that kind of thing. And as soon as you get away from a closed one-brand system it gets more complicated.
For me it's nothing to do with functional benefits of one system over another, but about introducing an unnecessary technological dependency to the function of my previously simple mechanical machine. Sure I have plenty of things to charge, I don't want to add to that burden, nor permanently tie it to a previously unburdened machine. Plus it's adding to the existing environmental footprint of a bike, which is mostly one-off manufacture and durables; it's adding batteries which will eventually need replacing. It also makes the bike less of a freedom machine if you have to find/use electricity every so often to keep it functioning (not the same as charging a GPS/watch etc., as that isn't essential to the function of the bike).
The cost is laughable when considered against the cost of the whole bike. I will be annoyed if XTR doesn't release a mechanical version later, and i'd be astounded if they don't with XT/Deore...
Plus it's adding to the existing environmental footprint of a bike, which is mostly one-off manufacture and durables;
It's mostly in every time you put it in a car to go somewhere.
A single weekend away in the UK can have a bigger carbon footprint than manufacturing and shipping the frame halfway round the world!
Other than that I agree.
Except I doubt we'll see mechanical XT again. On the road they seemed to settle on a single 12s mechanical group set, presumably it ends up being a difficult to sell a premium mechanical group set against a budget electric one at the same price point. Having said that they've not messed with the cassette so 'old' XT and XTR will remain compatible for a while yet.
Emechs are designed to make your existing bike obsolete. They serve no other purpose other than aiding the ebike owners becoming Darleks.
At least wireless shifting gets rid of internal cables! I refuse to even consider a bike with internal cables (I already own one with some internal routing, and its hateful), so at least its better than that!
Head to AliExpress and get a Sensah Empire 2x 11 or 12 speed groupset? I've got their 8 speed shifters which appear to be ergonomically and mechnically the same, and they're great. Stick-on cable guides and full-length outer and you're away! Probably cost less than you'd get for the AXS setup on eBay...
I spent today cleaning and prepping some of our old Hardrocks at work - 20 years old by my reckoning and most are still going on their original 8 speed drivetrain.
I spent today cleaning and prepping some of our old Hardrocks at work - 20 years old by my reckoning and most are still going on their original 8 speed drivetrain.
I used to maintain a fleet of those as hire bikes. Aside from usual consumables like brake pads, they were bombproof, even in the hands of Tourist Family Newbies crashing the crap out of the gears along the local old railway path .
Cost aside, although a GX AXS upgrade kit isn't wildly expensive these days, I'd be happy to have electronic gears from either of the big S. talking about SRAM specifically; It's obviously robust- I'm not a mech smasher anyway and it clearly works fine. Battery charging is a non-issue for an adult, but I guess you could always carry a spare. Plus it gives you opportunity to play about with Zirbel shifters and blipboxs an' stuff.
I get that there's a good argument for bikes and simplicity, but you could also argue the same thing about hydraulic brakes - a failure there is ride ending, complex gearboxes - same, but in reality how often does it actually happen? Sure, I'd think twice about it if I'm touring, but playing in the woods? Non-issue.
Hydraulic brakes is not a good example. We did one ride in appalling conditions where we used 2 sets of brake blocks in one day. Rim brakes also caused rim wear and split rims due to wear.
One 24hr race I saw multiple rear mech ripped off in the mud. Single speed is the real answer.
7 years of running di2 and 2 years of AXS.
Not once have I completely ran out of battery. Occasionally it’s got low enough that only 1 shift in 3 would work, but that’s it.
No ghost shifting (Alfine cables), no snapped cables (105 and corrosion). NO replacement inners, outers or setup, NOTHING in 7 years and over 60k km. NOTHING.
I pack a spare battery for long distance/critical trips. It’s 45g.
plus storage concerns in case of higher capacity batteries
And then there’s shipping…
but playing in the woods?
Electric gear systems aren’t as robust as cheapo cable gears. Playing around (that’s all I ever do really) requires cheap dependable parts. I can see why road riders have bought into ever more expensive components that require more care, but for those of us dicking about off road, it still feels like it’s entirely about selling new bling and nothing to do with our riding needs.
It might be wonderful but I want a choice if I use it.
Since 2018 my gravel bike has covered similar mileage and I changed one gear cable 105, due to it going woolly.
Probably about the same time it took you to charge the battery.
Presumably Mr Microshift, TRP, Sunrace etc will increase market share and their range of products because of this.
True, but with the wireless stuff, it doesn't go woolly, as the shift remains consistent.
There are pros and cons to both, depending on how you weigh those up will determine if you want mechanical or wireless.
Aside from the ridiculous cost, I haven't found any cons, but I suspect I'm a rather simple use case. I have 1 bike used several times weekly and I run the drivetrain for at least 2.5 years then replace it. It has been a long time (too long) since I've managed multi-day rides, I suspect if I got back into those I'd maybe see a bit of a difference in how I use the system.
I don't spend time messing about with my gears (but I do spend the time when setting it up first time but that time is about 15 minutes).
Wireless works faultlessly for me every single time (aside from my 3 user errors!).
Hydraulic brakes is not a good example.
If you pull a hose from either end - I've pulled the hose out of the master cylinder in a crash, you're done for the day.
but for those of us dicking about off road, it still feels like it’s entirely about selling new bling and nothing to do with our riding needs.
You've pretty much summed up the strategy for every bike manufacturer in the world...Selling gullible idiots stuff they don't need...Winner, winner chicken dinner. On that scale electronic gears (that work) are clearly no different from infinitely adjustable sus forks that cost over a thousand that some folk never service, or multiple teeny bearings that aren't changed frequently enough.
I was a big fan of 11 speed Deore.
But after destroying 8 derailleurs (they're made of cheese), I ponied up for GX AXS.
It is a lot more robust, shrugging off hits that would destroy a Deore.
My only wish is a jailbreak to run 11 speed with the AXS, but I could have got a Wheeltop to do that,
What if your battery dies? What if you run out of battery?
TBH If your doing off the beaten track(not close to any road access) you’ll probably be carrying a power bank for charging phone/gps so as long as you’ll have some usb capable charger for it 🙂
I think the issue is where your using it and the pains you’ll get sorting yourself out when something breaks.
Walking it to the road and a quick call to the other half for a pickup as opposed to being out in the mountains off road and having to push it for an hour in 35c no cover 🙂
But tbh this is a moot point as there are plenty of other exciting things than can break on your bike and you don’t necessarily carry a spare for.
I like wireless but tbh find that the cable stuff isn’t that bad for my use case.
I started using axs when it came on a bike I bought. I was sceptical at first but it has been flawless and so much easier for my arthritic thumbs, it made my dropper seem hard to push so I got a wireless dropper too. Wireless rocks for the old and arthritic
Wireless rocks for the old and arthritic
It's brilliant for anyone with wrist / hand disabilities, weak grip etc. Plus the positioning options for blip shifters.
It's been a gamechanger for para-cyclists.
im not desperate to have wireless shifting, but if I had the funds i probably would
but its an expensive enough sport as it is, and cost of living, supporting a family etc etc , theres no way i can justify it, id much rather spend my biking fund on a weekend away on the bike.
As long as there is a decent wired alternative that costs considerably less then, ill be happy!
a bigger concern for me is that SLX is being canned as that has always represented excellent vfm
I wonder how long it will be before we see wireless brakes, controlled by something like a rocker button rather than a lever, Ill bet SRAM have something like that in the works
Need the modulation and feedback for brakes though so doubtful that would be worth pursuing.
99% is much better than what feels like 50% of the time for me and mechanical shifting. There's always something that's not quite right.
In that case that's either a set up or compatibility issue, or somethings broken. I've had many many cable operated bikes that worked flawlessly with only a slight tweak to the barrel adjuster required every other month.
Only bike I wouldn't be without electric shifting is my tt bike. So much more intuitive than a bar end shifter, especially when you are blowing out your ass at the end of a race
Wow here's me thinking I actually fitted my axs 3 years ago and forgotten about in terms any sort of hassle. Carry one spare battery. Job done.
Do you lot forget to charge your phone daily?
It's fab no more rough cable syndrome.
Love it. (But don't hate cable either.)
Do you lot forget to charge your phone daily?
Yes, absolutely.
Today I've just given our recently acquired 2013 Felt F5 a mechanical overhaul. New rings, cassette & chain, all four cables inners and outers, made a new protection strip for the chainstays and rub protection on the head tube, new brake pads, new headset and retaped the bars. It took me a few hours at a relaxed pace and trying to do a really tidy job
This has to be about the pinnacle of pleasurable home mechanic bikes to work on. Nothing maddening, everything easily accessed (nothing internal), no bespoke tools just well thought out mechanical components that work well (10 speed 105 🙂).
That bike needs electronics like I need a kick in the head.
If the industry is, however, determined to keep anything that resembles a cable concealed from view then they need to not do a half arsed job and instead give us wireless electronic brakes as well and bin all that internal **** althogether.
a bigger concern for me is that SLX is being canned as that has always represented excellent vfm
I think deore has taken that crown. Back in the 10 speed days yes the Slx/105 was the peak of the value for money chart.
But deore got too good, I imagine very few people bought it/manufacturers specced it because deore became the enthusiast’s work horse but the marginal gains or money no object crew wouldn’t stoop to that level.
it’s a nicer name and silver is better than black, but apart from that, I can see why Slx gets canned. It just doesn’t have a role anymore.
My big bike ride of 4 months and 3000 miles - how often would I have needed to recharge? I still haven't changed the cables on it 3 years later
I wonder how long it will be before we see wireless brakes, controlled by something like a rocker button rather than a lever, Ill bet SRAM have something like that in the works
Never. As far as I am aware its never been done. Nearest is probably the citroens of the 70s with their high pressure assisted hydraulic systems. Brake by wire is such a bad idea
In that case that's either a set up or compatibility issue, or somethings broken. I've had many many cable operated bikes that worked flawlessly with only a slight tweak to the barrel adjuster required every other month.
I was thinking this. I've had cable gears that have gone the life of the bike without needing adjustment. Albeit that was more likely 10/11 speed. 12 speed sometimes needs more tweaking. Got X01 on a bike now where the only adjustment has been because the b screw slipped, and even then the shifting remained consistent up til the mech started contacting the cassette.
My big bike ride of 4 months and 3000 miles - how often would I have needed to recharge?
With Di2? Once, maybe twice to be sure*. AXS, probably once a week/10 days depending on how much shifting you do. Takes about 20 mins
*that’s the wired road option, not sure about the new wireless.
every day is a school day. I wonder how well it worked
I'm also in the "not on my watch" camp.
But it's going to be very easy for me to avoid, so no need for me to get outraged.
However, it is laughable how the entire transmission (mechs, shifters, cassettes) on 2 or maybe 3 of my bikes probably cost less than just one leccy rear mech.
Also, I have actually had a quick go on AXS and didn't like the ergonomics at all.
2 days and nobody has said Shimano brakes already have a binary on-off feel?
Also, I have actually had a quick go on AXS and didn't like the ergonomics at all.
By any chance was it sitting in the normal (mechanical) shifter position? Think it was an article by Ben that mentioned mounting it far further forward than the norm, and it does make a big difference. The standard position doesn't make sense as you're not moving a lever any distance, you can just put the pod right beside your thumb and sort of 'bump' the different buttons when you need to (this is also why I suspect that if you measured the full action of changing gear, it may be faster* than mechanical by the time your finger is back on the grip)
*by a tiny amount
My son's out in Morzine at the mo and just sent me this pic of his SLX mech. Apparently it didn't hit anything!
Imagine if he'd been out there with electronic mech - double the cost of the holiday to get it sorted!
Not strictly true, of course - you can buy the whole lower cage for about £30 with AXS. Do Shimano have something similiar?
Or is it £370 for a whole new DEORE level mech?! If I'm paying £370 for something I'd want a better name on it! Couldn't they have come up with new names for the Di2 stuff? I wonder how much Alivio will be... £250?? 🤣 (I'm not a groupset snob, oh no I'm not!)
SJS stock the inner & outer plates. Grand total of less than £30
TBH, I never need an excuse to buy shiny new stuff for my bike(s), I was, however, neutral about electronic shifting, my mate was right on it, and I was like, well, my stuff works fine, what's the point? Then I saw a GX setup ridiculously cheap, my inner bike Magpie clicked to buy, now most of the fleet is cableless.
SJS stock the inner & outer plates. Grand total of less than £30
You shore?
My son's out in Morzine at the mo and just sent me this pic of his SLX mech. Apparently it didn't hit anything!
Looking at the photo the lower jockey wheel is worn and possibly not the correct type. If 12 speed it's also missing the ridges around the outside that prevent the chain coming off and getting wedged between the jockey wheel and cage. Which is where the chain is, and probably caused the mech to fold around under pedalling.
Shimano SLX mechs are prone to doing that. Mine went in a similar way after a minor slow speed rock tap. The replacement XT one is still ok a couple of years later despite much heavier hits. Deore also seems much tougher.
Looks like an 11 spd mech.
inner plate £6.99 - part no Y5YX16000
outer plate £9.99 - part no Y5YX98070
2 speed it's also missing the ridges around the outside that prevent the chain coming off and getting wedged
inner plate £6.99 - part no Y5YX16...
etc etc
Wasn't the point of the post on a thread about wireless shifting!
I really don't care anyway. He bought a new one.
I took the thread to be about wireless vs mechanical, and thought it worth pointing out that as well as mechanical mechs being functional and relatively inexpensive compared to wireless numbers, they're also serviceable at reasonable prices. Seemed relevant to the issue you'd raised. Apologies if not.
One notable point i discovered recently, there are now some very decent CABLE disc brakes. I'm not really a fan of the hydraulic brifters, having seen lots of clubmates have issues with bleeding. But.... those 11 speed SRAM red cable shifters and some nice cable disks has got me interested in upgrading! And OMG Gold Growtac calipers on a road bike! Take. My. Money!
I could see a reversion to cable electronic in time and am now hunting another set of shifters or using my blip box and buttons 😀
Deore also seems much tougher.
What Gribs says. Deore rear mech paired with top end shifters runs, and runs, and runs. Or XT if you want to spend more. SLX seem to handle abuse poorly. Or it could be that people running them dish out more abuse... who knows.
Wasn't the point of the post on a thread about wireless shifting!
Except you posted a photo of destroyed rear mech with the words "didn't hit anything". It didn't origami itself in isolation. Everything happens for a reason.
No I didn't. I posted the words:
Apparently it didn't hit anything!
Which gives it a different context, as the words came from someone else. Duh.
The next words in the post were
Imagine if he'd been out there with electronic mech...
Sorry if they weren't more prominent.
Deore also seems much tougher.
What Gribs says. Deore rear mech paired with top end shifters runs, and runs, and runs. Or XT if you want to spend more. SLX seem to handle abuse poorly. Or it could be that people running them dish out more abuse... who knows.
I've wondered about checking if you can use xt jockey wheels in the deore mech to get the noticeable improvements of xt at a lower price.
Bigger issue may be that frame-builders stop including cable bosses on their new designs.
This is already an issue for road bikes, where the top end stuff just can't take gear cables so the only choice of gears is AXS or Di2.
Racing XC frames are probably going the same way, and fancy-dancy gravel frames too.
Those decisions might have as much of a bearing on cabled availability as the groupsets themselves.
Personally, wouldn't want a world where I didn't have a choice of a decent spec mech groupset, especially on an MTB or tourer.
But I do like AXS on my 'main' road bike FWIW.
I could see a reversion to cable electronic in time and am now hunting another set of shifters or using my blip box and buttons 😀
I have some very nice single speed drop bar brake levers on my old old junk bike - almost certainly worth more than the rest of the bike.
Thought of using them on a 1x12 gravel build with blips stuck on somehow. Gave up on the idea when I remembered it was cable brakes - are all road cable discs designed to work with a standard brifter cable pull?
No I didn't.
Yes you did, and that doesn't change the context or my reason for originally replying to you. Duh.
Bigger issue may be that frame-builders stop including cable bosses on their new designs.
Seems to have been limited to a couple of top-end frames so far, with plenty of pushback from punters.
I can't see product managers signing that off generally any time soon. They just won't be able to hit the price points they need to without cable-shift models.
(I'm thinking MTB here, I know leccy shifting has become more established on the road side)
They just won't be able to hit the price points they need to without cable-shift models.
wouldn't be so sure - I said a few pages ago that one of the hidden benefits of the T-type is that the mech can be installed by unkilled labour (no set up required) and can be done at a different stage of production (doesnt need the wheel, drivetrain and bars installed to do it).
manufacturer's cost to install isn't necessarily in a direct proportionality to the cost the individual components cost aftermarket.
Thought of using them on a 1x12 gravel build with blips stuck on somehow. Gave up on the idea when I remembered it was cable brakes - are all road cable discs designed to work with a standard brifter cable pull?
Blips underneath the brake lever mounts facing forward work well. (I've been testing). Can shift from the hoods and the drops fine. And yes, all calipers are road pull. Hence my interest! Only challenge I am working on is where to mount the blip box - an inverted Garmin mount under the garmin is first choice, but have yet to see a solution and have asked K edge if they could make a 90 degree rotated Garmin insert.