[Closed] The future has 7 gears

What's the minimum number of gears allowed? IIRC there was some rule that prohibited singlespeeds. Just looks a bit like the bodged setups trials riders used to use to get arround the rule.

Ah hah, we were just saying the other day that it's weird nobody makes a posh anodised chainguard thing to go on the inside of a cassette and replace the plastic thing.

iirc spesh already have it on the Demo 8 full builds, not XO or XX(1) spec though.

plastic thing.

I think sir will find that is called the "sissy guard"

Looks like another win for the marketing dept. if they manage to convince people that they've been wrong to run close ratios for such a long time

Amateurs! 1x6! 15-25.

[IMG] [/IMG]

[IMG] [/IMG]

Stupid money though, needs to be a very much cheaper version for something so likely to get smashed, more so than trail riding.
I run 9spd with that bodged spacer /sram shifter / zee clutch mech combo. I had a road 8spd cassette on up to a year ago and was very happy with the gear spread.

hang on. a black cassette?

hang on. a black cassette?

It was silver. The rider has been using Finish Line Green wet lube.

hang on. a black cassette

A feature of XO1, even the 11 speed one...

legend - Member

I think sir will find that is called the "sissy guard"

I'm sure when Hope sell a million of them to STWers for £50 a pop it'll have a cooler name.

Cool - you can use a smaller ring up front for more clearance. Except the MASSIVE chainguide means it makes no difference.

2-tooth steps are safer in shifting than 1-tooth steps under big loads

I'd be interested to hear some logic behind this (assuming that there's some and it's not just marketing dept BS) as I can't think why that would be.

glad to see this finally coming.

A feature of XO1, even the 11 speed one...

do they stay black? are they CF or just anodised?

If you could get a shift on every wide link that [u]might[/u] be fractionly smoother. Doubt in though.

Def not CF, not sure how the colour is applied. Haven't seen a used one so dont know how well they wear.

I think sir will find that is called the "sissy guard"

Hang on, I thought it was called a "dork disc"?!

Officially what half the people who race have been doing for the last god knows how long. Bit prettier than my old ghetto setup using BB spacers for the cassette though 🙂

I'm still sat here thinking "what's the point" though. What benefit is there to fewer gears?

Obviously it's to save weight.
On a 40 pound downhill bike.
It will be 3 grams less (no idea if that's right but not a lot) and cost around five thousand pounds to upgrade.
Bargain.

€269 and you need srams 10 tooth driver body. I think I'll pass.

I'm still sat here thinking "what's the point" though. What benefit is there to fewer gears?

Back in the day DH bikes went from 135mm hubs, to 150mm, to 165mm, etc. All in the attempt to make the rear wheel symetrical. The downside of this is when pedaling heals hit the chainstays. So they went with wide BB's and higher Q-factor, which reduce ground clearance. Until things went full circle and they decided that 135mm made more sense for racing.

But as you don't need to have the perfect cadence when sprinting downhill 11 gears with 1t spacing between them are pointless, so 7 wider spaced gears makes more sense, and allows for wider spaced spoke flanges and the strength of the old 150mm hubs.

Stronger wheel, more clearance, and 4 less pointless gears.

so 7 wider spaced gears makes more sense, and allows for wider spaced spoke flanges and the strength of the old 150mm hubs.

...only here you use standard xd freehub so the same flange spacing as full 11 speed hub. No advantage of stronger wheel then.

thisisnotaspoon - Member

Back in the day DH bikes went from 135mm hubs, to 150mm, to 165mm, etc. All in the attempt to make the rear wheel symetrical. The downside of this is when pedaling heals hit the chainstays. So they went with wide BB's and higher Q-factor, which reduce ground clearance. Until things went full circle and they decided that 135mm made more sense for racing.

But as you don't need to have the perfect cadence when sprinting downhill 11 gears with 1t spacing between them are pointless, so 7 wider spaced gears makes more sense, and allows for wider spaced spoke flanges and the strength of the old 150mm hubs.

Stronger wheel, more clearance, and 4 less pointless gears.

All good in theory, but there' s nothing here you can't achieve with an existing setup, a limit screw and a few spacers. Freehub is the same width, so this makes no actual difference - you have to change frame and hub to get the narrower setup.

Basically. they've taken all the expense of XX1, removed the USP - the side range - and released somethign with no actual benefit. Even the narrow-wide ring is pointless if you have a chainguide.

WTF? Is it april 1st? This is beyond parody.

Why do they need gears?

Surely a more manly consumption of beer with its attendant girth gain would enable fat boys to roll downhill faster.... 🙂

Yep, hard to see the advantage of this either. Fewer gear shifts needed?

iolo - Member
Obviously it's to save weight.
On a 40 pound downhill bike.
It will be 3 grams less (no idea if that's right but not a lot) and cost around five thousand pounds to upgrade.
Bargain.

I assume it will end up being fitted to the non 40lb DH bikes
[img] [/img]
at under 34lb it's probably lighter than a lot of peoples 30lb bikes in here.

All good in theory, but there' s nothing here you can't achieve with an existing setup, a limit screw and a few spacers. Freehub is the same width, so this makes no actual difference - you have to change frame and hub to get the narrower setup.

mikewsmith - Member

Except it comes out the box like that. I can see the idea of having less gear with an even shift rather than either packing in duplicates or bodging it.

Yes, it's all nice coming out of the box like that - but there's nothign here that couldn't be done with just a 7-speed cassette on a regular freehub. Pointless forcing people onto an XX1 driver.

It's only forcing people if there is no other option. I see XD freehubs are getting shipped as a standard option on a lot of hubs these days.

I recently put a new 7 speed drivetrain on my pub bike and it cost nothing like that. And I saved a gram or two not putting on a spoke protector by simply setting it up right.

iolo - Member
Obviously it's to save weight.
On a 40 pound downhill bike.

40lb ?DH bikes are old skool

Will my XT thumbies work with them?

All good in theory, but there' s nothing here you can't achieve with an existing setup, a limit screw and a few spacers. Freehub is the same width, so this makes no actual difference - you have to change frame and hub to get the narrower setup.

Specialied/DT have had 7 speed hubs and gearing for a while now on complete demo8's. This just makes it a bit more mass market. Anything to stop Hope bringing out a shortened XD driver for it's trials hub (which is essentialy the same thing)?

Ok it's a crap upgrade for an existing wheel, but given the costs of XX1/X01 I don't think this is being aimed at the "I can't afford a new hub" demographic.

Correct us if im wrong... but with X01 DH in 10speed and short / Med cage, doesn't that essentially bring XX1 type technology to 10spd for the trail bike also without having to upgrade to anything else such as a silly expensive cassette!?

I seem to recall a time when everyoine wanted short cage SRAM 9 speed mechs for similar advantages

Correct us if im wrong...

Basically. they've taken all the expense of XX1, removed the USP - the side range - and released somethign with no actual benefit.

Member
Correct us if im wrong... but with X01 DH in 10speed and short / Med cage, doesn't that essentially bring XX1 type technology to 10spd for the trail bike also without having to upgrade to anything else such as a silly expensive cassette!?

Not really. X01 10s DH Cassette is 12-36 - basically no different to existing 10 speed setups (slightly narrower range, no 11t). There's no real advantage to the mech over existing clutch mechs like Saint or Zee (certainly none that justifies the price), and beyond that, there's just the narrow/wide ring, which is available more cheaply for your existing cranks (and is probably pointless for DH bikes with a chainguide anyhow)

Excuse me for being but wouldn't

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-hg50-8-speed-cassette-road/

plus

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shimano-alivio-m410-7-8-speed-rear-mech/rp-prod30990

plus

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/shimano-acera-m360-shifter/rp-prod107277

work?

Ok, 8 speed but what's the difference in DH?

Yes, but you'd still not have the dishless rear wheel.

With a 150 rear hub?

Would the DH X-whatever have any reducing effects on chaingrowth? My frame has a lot of it at the start of travel, pedalling across the furrows on the RH track at Revolution gets me everytime. Just a thought.

I see Mr Jones on Dirt is bestowing the cash saving nature of the new 7/10spd DH devices, but I've no idea what hes on about, for a change.

Wow it's Suntour Microdrive 22 years on, awesome innovation 😆

Can they bring back X-Press shifters as well?

As people have pointed out there's no cash to be saved here it's all top end stuff and the amateurs will still be bodging things to work as they always have . Until this is available without the 11 speed width and a specific dishless hub is made it's a half way house. Kind of frustrating that they've gone to all this trouble to make a something that does only 50% of the job people wanted it to do.

Don't quite get why they didn't make the hub as well - it's not as if anyone that can afford the prices these will retail at is going to baulk at shelling out for a new rear wheel. I suspect they'd have welcomed the opportunity for a new bit of bling.

Applaud them for doing it but I think they only got part of the memo.

Kind of frustrating that they've gone to all this trouble to make a something that does only 50% of the job people wanted it to do.

Kerching-ching!

The world's gone mad.

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thisisnotaspoon - Member
Yes, but you'd still not have the dishless rear wheel.

The X0 doesn't affect dishing either way, as it's still the same freehub width

The X0 doesn't affect dishing either way, as it's still the same freehub width

So you're absolutely sure no-ones bringing out 7 speed freehubs with less dishing?

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/DT-Swiss-7-Speed-Downhill-Hub-First-Look-sea-otter-2011.html

thisisnotaspoon - Member

So you're absolutely sure no-ones bringing out 7 speed freehubs with less dishing?

Not what I said. I said that the XO DH Freehub/cassette combination didn't affect dishing.

The entirely different hub, freehub and cassette in your link might.

Bear in mind that prototype was pre XX1 I'd be gobsmacked if there's not an uptodate XD style DH specific hub at DT waiting for release.

SRAM don't make many hubs so the fact there's none mentioned isn't suprising.

Would still need a different cassette though...

[img] [/img]

That just seems bizarre "ooh look our new cassette is way too narrow, lets build an intricately machined massive spacer behind it" I don't know much about xd, but doesn't it all hang off the big sprocket? In which case couldn't they have not put the spacer there and asked someone to knock up a dish less hub with a mini xd body and bolt it onto that? Maybe include a removeable dropout side spacer for those with standard xd?

Makes sense to me 😐

Dhers don't need the bigger cogs on the cassette, especially when the market is going towards dinner plates.

Sram rather than make a select few for pro riders make enough to cover the costs of product and some profit.

Kind of frustrating that they've gone to all this trouble to make a something that does only 50% of the job people wanted it to do.

Dh bikes go down, the other 50% of the cassette in theory is for up. They have uplifts for that 🙂

Hope SS hub + 7 (or even 8 ) 10sp cogs + clutch mech + shifter + T/T ring = similar thing with a dishless rear wheel.

Dh bikes go down, the other 50% of the cassette in theory is for up.

Will my XT thumbies work with them?

[img] [/img]

Don't think you get it. The point is to reinvent a technology that's been around for 20 years, in such a way that you can claim it as new IP and charge an effing fortune because every single piece has to be bought new from a custom range.

D0NK - Member

yes but they've freed up a load of space which could be used to reduce dish to get a stronger wheel but done bugger all with it, that is the "50%" argument - I think.

Least surprising thing ever, it's just like all those 150mm hubs with narrow flanges, that ended up being effectively the same as a 135mm hub with a bunch of spacers. They ended up selling the perception of strength without ever bothering to add it.

I can't wait for the new enduro 50mm travel fork and flex stem combo. Progress at last 😕

They ended up selling the perception of strength without ever bothering to add it.

The point is to reinvent a technology that's been around for 20 years, in such a way that you can claim it as new IP and charge an effing fortune because every single piece has to be bought new from a custom range.

doof_doof - Member
Hope SS hub + 7 (or even 8 ) 10sp cogs + clutch mech + shifter + T/T ring = similar thing with a dishless rear wheel.

Take a look at my photos one page 1. I managed to get 6 on the free hub. It might be possible to get 7 on there with a thinner spoke side spacer and half engagement of the dropout side sprocket.

I've got 7 9sp ones on mine and I've seen 8 10sp cogs fitted over on MTBR 😉

BBS - why such a limited range of gears? It seems possible to fit down to an 11T so why restrict yourself to the 15-25?

Very tempted to do this for the DH bike at some point if only because it's a bit more trick than standard.

It was to take some pressure off my shot knees and to extend the climbing ability of my SS. I don't need to go any faster downhill. I have enough gravity and lack of talent to help me in that regard. I could put a wider range of spread, but I like closer range cassettes.

I put a standard cassette spacer on the spoke side of the free hub because the mech looked VERY close to the spokes. A slight nudge and it would be bye bye mech and wheel. The amount of engagement that would have been on the dropout side again was dubious if I'd put the 7th on.

I'm a bit belt and braces TBH. Although I would like to see how others have managed to get 8x10 speed ones on there without any compromises.

I'd a 24inch, 7 speed dishless setup on my old Spesh Big hit DH, and a converted 26 inch dishless setup for the same bike (from Goldtech I think)...

Does that mean I was ahead of my time? Or does it simply mean another new standard to herald a fresh splurge of spending on new frames/wheels/shifters/blah.

It's getting preposterous now - the constant reinvention and reintroduction is tiresome, expensive and pretty much pointless. The entry point to 'real' mountain biking is getting daft too.

I've snapped more frames than wheels in my time. 36 spoked, well built wheels are tough as old boots and not insanely heavy either.