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Well, I don’t think anyone has used the word cheating or mentioned Strava yet so that’s positive.
I can’t believe how utterly clueless some of you are, you’re so naive you’d actually vote for legislation to limit Ebikes and have them needing tax, registration and CBT etc…. and can’t even see how easily that would open the door for the same legislation to be attached to normal non motorised bikes.
The regulation / registration / labelling of e-bikes is completely inevitable and sensible due to their future importance in the urban environment and commuting. So don't worry yourself there - that ship has sailed. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to effectively advocate for ebike use off road so e-mountain bikers get a good and fair outcome when this legislation comes rumbling down the road.
That's certainly not inevitable, but it could happen if ebikers get their skates on. The English ramblers and equestrians will have already made quiet representation and sorted out the lines of influence - they already have the MXers in their trophy cabinet and won't be waiting on an invitation to go round 2 with electric bikes on bridleways.
Ok, so IF im paying for Tax Insurance and the like for my Ebike, then i want it fully unrestricted (as a motorbike) so i can use it to its potential, that way EVERYONE will be happy ... 'Right'?
Ok, so IF im paying for Tax Insurance and the like for my Ebike, then i want it fully unrestricted (as a motorbike) so i can use it to its potential, that way EVERYONE will be happy … ‘Right’?
As long as you stick to where other motorbikes are allowed, yes. Do keep out of the way of us cyclists though. 🙂
Only
There's no one in the woods I ride to actually Police this legislation you're suggeting is inevitable.
http://www.ktmfreeride-e.com/en
there is even an e-park to ride it in
Nobody will give a shit about chipping it there...
Oh man that looks Amazing 😀 you none ebikers would take a month of pissing and moaning to get round that, Lol
What about the evolution of the fitness and physiques of the bikers who swap to ebikes? 😉
Strava
cheating
Do 3 times the descending you do now on a 50lb bike and you'll be buff as me in no time Vicky.
Seriously though, Just holding manuals and hopping stuff will increase your core strength compared to the same basic maneovers on a normal bike, whipping one about and popping off everything making shapes even more so. I've always been upperbody strong but now when I ride my normal bikes at first they feel crazy light to jump, hop, manny... then when you tone back into them they're just ridiculously easy to manipulate with anything you use upper body strength for really.
My leg fitness has never really needed any help but let's face it climbing a normal mtb for hours is dull AF
My cardio fitness goes up and down but that's more to do with my rockstar lifestyle than whether the bike I've been riding has a motor or not.
Nah riding a bear is where it's at for getting strong
Geex- how do you know whether I’m not as buff as you?! 😆
I did 7 full days of mostly (but not totally) downhill riding in the Alps in July and it did improve my strength but I think it was pedalling a fs mountain bike uphill at altitude that helped my fitness more. Not sure you can essentially just do away with climbing and expect to maintain your fitness.
enough with the flirting already
I’m not flirting- see my edit above for further explanation 😄
Thanks for the answers to my bit, he bought it.
We'll have his HT ebike up for sale tomorrow in classifieds
You wouldn't noticably lose any fitness with 7 days off the bike Vicky
Ooh... get me. Now I'm the one doing the flirting 😉
[Edit] I don't cmpletely sack off pedalling uphill, not even when I'm in the alps on a DH holiday with only a DH bike. What makes you think I do on any bike?
You may be an exception Geex, but most of the e-bikers that I see are not putting much effort into their climbing.
read back a few pages.
you know you want to. 😉
Strava
cheating
Why I oughta ........
There's a KTM Freeride E park on top of the Areitbahn at Zell Am See.
Good fun, the bikes obviously have good acceleration but they're not a patch on a proper enduro yet. They'll get there though.
As Vicky says, geex may be the exception, but the vast majority of those on eBikes are not putting as much effort into the ride as those posting here would have you believe .....
The majority of those on eBikes are overweight and have no technical ability when it comes to descending.
Recently riding with a French mate hitting Little Champery in Finale. On the ~300m climb we were keeping up with others climbing on eBikes, admittedly they may have only been in eco mode, but they certainly weren't getting in more runs than me and my mate that day. 💪
Oh, it's all Geex, Geex, Geex
I'm pretty studly and buff too you know.
The majority of those on eBikes are overweight and have no technical ability when it comes to descending.
Get your arse down to Leogang in 2 weeks and we'll compare times on the WC DH.
I tend to agree with you Alpin about a lot of Ebike riders not being the fittest or most skilled or most likely to be putting in a big effort... but as you've realised it doesn't mean all of us are like that. But who cares if we all were? there are plenty shit, slow unfit, lazy riders on all sorts of non-Ebikes too.
One thing I have found. Almost all the technically skilled/faster gravity riders I know who I'd love to be riding Ebikes with are all holding back and not wanting to buy an Ebike (yet). it's something I hear far too much... When I'm older... If I can't ride a normal bike anymore.. .etc.
Being honest if I was 20 again now I'd still be buying the same Ebike I have now (to compliment my other bikes) to use instead of the 15 years or so I spent pushing DH bikes up hills 2 or 3 times a week.
TBF When I get a new bike I tend to ride the shit out of it for a month or two and really gel with it while my other bikes get used slightly less for a while. I wouldn't have thought this was too unusual? With my Ebike there was slighlty more to learn. like how to get it to handle as close to an ordinary bike as possible, how to make it playful rather than a plower (I hate riding like that!), how to get scrubs/whips/tables/wheelies and manuals dialed like a normal bike how much pre-load was needed to manual or boost it off lips. Not to mention the whole novelty of the motor assist and when/how to use it. I'm completely used to everything about the bike now and can ride it as fast and with as much style as my incredibly closely spec'd 16lb lighter enduro bike. I'm used to all it's differences now and switch imediately back to my other bikes in the same way I always do with them all. I'm now completely over my Ebike being a new thing and since the the novelty value wore off it's just another bike with different advantages and negatives just like any other bike. In use it compliments my other bikes nicely. it doesn't replace any of them. it's obviously not going to be as good as my roadbike or race BMX or 4X bike or Enduro bike or slopestyle or dirtjump or DH bikes for what they're specifically designed for. If I'm cycling 20 miles on the road my road bike is the obvious choice but I've ridden a BMX and DH bike stood up that sort of distance on road before, just 'coz. I also wheelie and bunny hop my roadbike because why not? Skills wise you don't stop progressing because you buy an Ebike, Roadbike, fatbike or god forbid a gravel bike. You stop progressing if you stop pushing your riding skills, hitting stuff that gives you a buzz or mixing it up and playing with lines/terrain. I'm sure some bike riders (E or normal) may have no interest in progressing and that's absolutely fine too.
Back to the point of this thread...
I hope cyclists eventually evolve into not being scared of Ebikes, start thinking with common sense and stop crying about new laws they think we need to save the public from a motor assisted bike.
Colp. I know you are.
I'll STFU now
Get your arse down to Leogang in 2 weeks and we’ll compare times on the WC DH
IT IS ON!!!
The book is however closed, for obvious reasons.
As Vicky says, geex may be the exception, but the vast majority of those on eBikes are not putting as much effort into the ride as those posting here would have you believe …..
The majority of those on eBikes are overweight and have no technical ability when it comes to descending.
Evidence? I have an ebike. Not used it a huge amount for actual mtbing but I ain't overweight, having an ebike has allowed me to ride more, I have exactly the same descending ability on the ebike or not.
At glentress I would say the majority of allriders are overweight
I really don’t get this thread, or any others on Ebikes on here.
They don’t go any faster than a normal bike downhill. They go about the same speed as a fit rider on the flat on a non ebike. They generally go faster up a hill than a non ebike, but hardly at dangerous speeds (and certainly slower than a non ebikes back down the hill).
They need no more regulation than they have now, IMO. I think the max speed is about right: assistance is there for the drag back up, not to go faster on the flat.
Talk of a CBT is, frankly, stupid. You can’t compare an ebike capable of a speed no greater than a non assisted bike to a 125cc capable of 70mph, bought to sit in traffic all day.
I don’t have one, but really don’t get the hate. They really aren’t that much different to a non-assist bike at all.
I don’t have one, but really don’t get the hate. They really aren’t that much different to a non-assist bike at all
I agree with the first half of that...
totally disagree with the 2nd half though. They're very very different, it's night and day.
If this was an ebike general thread then geex's penultimate response would have closed it!
Nicely put.
I want to know who colp is!!
How so, weeksy? I’ve borrowed one twice, other than being much easier up a slow, steep hill (and a couple of great new line choices up naggery hills), I really don’t think there’s much difference.
Certainly wasnt as fast back down the hill as a mate on his Nomad...
I'm gonna hire an Ebike this Saturday and take the ****er up Skiddaw, do the trek powerfly have a sorta hike a bike setting that'll push the bike along walking to assist with the weight?
How so, weeksy? I’ve borrowed one twice, other than being much easier up a slow, steep hill (and a couple of great new line choices up naggery hills), I really don’t think there’s much difference
In exactly that context really. Just the ease of pedalling without actually pedalling (sort of)
I didn't do any tech/downhill stuff on the test rides i had, but i saw where they're just completely different animals on the flat/uphill
I think we’re making the same point, just from a different viewpoint.
An ebike is arguably not much faster (if at all) anywhere than a really strong, really fit rider. Do they also need regulation on the trail. 😉
"hope cyclists eventually evolve into not being scared of Ebikes, start thinking with common sense and stop crying about new laws they think we need to save the public from a motor assisted bike."
Your comprehension/interpretation Skills are lacking .
Are you an MP. What you have written is not what the "crying" as you put it is about .
An ebike is arguably not much faster (if at all) anywhere than a really strong, really fit rider. Do they also need regulation on the trail.
What you are missing is the desperate pleas to have current restrictions upped and a higher assist speed allowed. Keep pushing that game and you are starting to ask for an electric motorbike or moped. You are stepping into an already regulated space.
I don’t hear the same pleas. I think the limit is about right - as I said for me they are about help being winched back up a hill...
On the other hand, on the cycle path alongside a busy dual carriageway I can hold, say, 24mph on my road bike. Would an ebike at the same speed be any more dangerous?
What you are missing is the desperate pleas to have current restrictions upped and a higher assist speed allowed
Bloody hell, THM has joined the thread.
There were no desperate pleas, a couple of us just said that the 15mph cut out does feel a little low in some applications.
Yes mate, the Powerfly has a walk mode. I’ve not used it yet but I think you activate it by holding down 2 buttons then releasing 1 of them. I’m sure the shop will know.
I think they put it in for all of the singlespeed gravel types so that they can walk down any downhill bits.
it baffles me why people care how or why other folk ride their bikes OR they type of bike they ride, does it really matter to your fragile ego's if someone pedals past you with a battery on their bike???? or a fatbike? Bmx? roadie??? who truly cares? them folks may be coming off an injury/illness/divorce or some other life changing event/problem and riding ANY bike could be their way back to wellness/happiness, its only riding bikes people! we're only riding bikes! some have skinny wheels, some have fat wheels and some have a little assistance, but its all only riding bikes and getting out in the fresh air 🙂
it baffles me why people care how or why other folk ride their bikes OR they type of bike they ride, does it really matter to your fragile ego’s if someone pedals past you with a battery on their bike????
Because it has the potential to increase the negative legislation of where and when the people without batteries are able to ride.
It’s very doubtful though. With Obesity on the rise, it would take a pretty stupid bunch of politicians to start legislating again any form of physical exercise.
Oh Christ, hang on .......
im outta here!
This thread is great. STW distilled. I’d love a go on an ebike and really don’t understand the hate. It’s not like it stops you from riding a normal bike. Just ride what you like.
On the other hand, on the cycle path alongside a busy dual carriageway I can hold, say, 24mph on my road bike. Would an ebike at the same speed be any more dangerous?
24mph is not a casual road bike speed.
Experience of the commuter brigade in London is that the self-selecting sample of e-bike riders who have derestricted (whatever) their bikes also have a high proportion of nitwits who believe that their powered bike gives them a right to barge their way to the front at the lights. Nailing the throttle (whatever) off the lights is their justification. The non-casual road bike riders who can match and exceed their speeds between the lights don't behave like this and are generally courteous, so why can't the nitwits just be pleasant to be around. Answer: because they are nitwits.
Nitwits will be nitwits and there is no proof that currently notable nitwit behaviour on derestricted e-bikes from a self-selecting sample of the self-interested can be extrapolated to the general population. Correlation and causation are different things.
Maybe the anti-ebike anxiety expressed here is an anti-nitwit anxiety. It becomes convenient to conflate the two just as "white vans", "audis" and "pizza delivery scooters" are the conflated embodiment of the worst behaviours on our roads.
Yes mate, the Powerfly has a walk mode. I’ve not used it yet but I think you activate it by holding down 2 buttons then releasing 1 of them. I’m sure the shop will know.
Is that legal?
No one chipped them then?
i would...😏
I wonder why they don't let 29mph limitsd mopeds on mixed/shared pathways.
Why don't we campaign for those to be allowed on at the same time.
It's essentially the same thing
That is why I'm against spedelecs being given the same rights as bicycles .
Bicycles (assist limited to 15mph no on demand throttle )
Spedelecs. (Above 15mph assist or throttle but must have functioning pedal drive system) insurance , training etc - allowed where mopeds are or your local e bike park.
Motorbike - no need for pedals . Motorbike rules
It's logical to anyone whos logically though about it and doesn't just want to go faster.
No one's banning anything just giving the option to select the correct tool and giving it the appropriate place to be used
Is that legal?
I assume so. It’s a standard feature. I recall someone mentioned using it in another thread to transport an injured walker off a hill.
I was under the impression that if it could be propelled without pedalling then it would need registering and taxing et cetera.
“I was under the impression that if it could be propelled without pedalling then it would need registering and taxing et cetera.”
It’s probably treated as an electric wheelchair legally when being used in that way.
Under 4mph isn't classed as motorised. It's how mobility scooters are allowed to use pedestrian zones.
That’s all very well but what happens when people start derestricting them and get everyone banned from pedestrian zones.
trail_rat +1
Maintain the differences and distinctions between the types.
It's all a bit whatiffery around here .
I'm just applying existing laws to vehicles of similar speeds under motorised power.
Or did you mean derestricted mobility scooters .
I reckon there would be a good race series In that like lawnmower racing ...
Private land only of course 😉
That’s all very well but what happens when people start derestricting them and get everyone banned from pedestrian zones.
I've shopped for electric wheelchairs and not once was I offered derestriction.
Can't say the same for electric mopeds.
No one posting here with an Emtb actually said anything about wanting their assist cut off limit anywhere near 29mph. Most folk who've chipped theirs I've spoken to have said if the assist limit was 20mph as it is in other countries (eg. US/Straya) they wouldn't have derestricted theirs. 20mph would be fine and a huge improvement over the daft 15mph UK bikes are limitted to.
There are already firm definitions/distinctions between the different types of Ebike
- Class 1: eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and have a maximum assisted speed of 20 mph. ((15 in the UK)
- Class 2: eBikes that also have a maximum speed of 20 mph, but are throttle-assisted.
- Class 3: eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and a maximum assisted speed of 28 mph.
All classes limit the motor’s power to 1 horsepower (750W).
The real reason any cyclist argues for different laws/legislation/access rights for class 1 Emtbs to their bicycle is snobbery. Nothing more.
"The real reason any cyclist argues for different laws/legislation/access rights for class 1 Emtbs to their bicycle is snobbery. Nothing more."
Despite the fact I own an ebike and have no qualms about the 15mph speed limit I'm a snob. Good work
This 'walk mode' is the most attractive feature so far!
In terms of evolution, I'm waiting for full 'hover mode' to help with hike-a-biking.
I didn't say it made sense. Snobbery rarely does.
20mph would be fine and a huge improvement over the daft 15mph UK bikes are limitted to.
I will bite. Why is it daft? It keeps it to a level that a reasonably fit rider would be able to reach whereas 20 is pushing it just a tad.
If you look at the recommended speeds for cycle paths it also fits nicely there.
so which part of my post is snobery ?
my bike will quite easily do more than 15mph if i derestrict it ( which i have on the private farm track) - it will do 40kph+ if i let it (by way of software deregulation)
how ever my civic responsibility to not being irresponsible on shared use paths that i want to use it on means i keep it restricted
if heaven forbid there was an accident ( thats why we call em accidents they happen when you least expect it) and even more forbid i was in the wrong.
im not A. riding an illigal bike b. Speed differential is low and risk of serious injury to either party is reduced and c riding a gate way to all cyclists being banned from those paths.
at the risk of bringing facts which dont fit your mantra to the table
"pedestrians have been shown
to have a 90% chance of survival when struck
by a car travelling at 30 km/h or below, but
less than 50% chance of surviving an impact
at 45 km/h. Pedestrians have almost no"
30kph being below 20mph
how ever my civic responsibility to not being irresponsible on shared use paths that i want to use it on means i keep it restricted
Although there isnt a set in stone value the suggested speeds seem to be if you go higher than 12-18mph (depending on the path type) then you should be on the road instead.
Of course cyclists can go faster without assistance but it takes a tad more effort and harder to sustain.
at the risk of bringing facts which dont fit your mantra to the table
“pedestrians have been shown
to have a 90% chance of survival when struck
by a car travelling at 30 km/h or below, but
less than 50% chance of surviving an impact
at 45 km/h
To be fair, those facts don’t really fit an ebike discussion either.
Have you got any stats on pedestrians being hit by supertankers?
has your bike got an impact crush zone and a pedestrian friendly frontal zone. or has it got a hard thin bar just at organ level ?
its more relevent than any data you have presented. other than waaaaah i want to go faster but im not allowed and whataboutery I've seen nothing.
Your civic responsibility has nothing to do with what your motor is restricted to. It has to do with how you use it. Same as your vehicle, or do you stop at every 30mph sign, pop the bonnet and adjust the throttle cable to drive through?
Your snobbery isn't any one comment. it's your entire attitude.
very good , lets see how that plays out.
has your bike got an impact crush zone and a pedestrian friendly frontal zone
Only all the massive body flab I carry through being a lazy ebiker
Perhaps the speed restrictions should be based on rider weight. Overweight ebikers are clearly a greater danger to pedestrians.
If I wanted the assist to cut out at higher speeds than 15mph on my Ebike I would derestrict it.
If I just wanted to go faster than normal mtbs I'd take my roadbike out on the road.
In which case why do you want faster assist on an ebike? Not sure you have made a case for it other than faster better.
answer
Mick.
to help accelerate the 47lb bike on flatter gradients when it reaches normal bike sprinting speeds
FFS!
Wasn't this you saying why you wanted a higher cut out speed....
has your bike got an impact crush zone and a pedestrian friendly frontal zone. or has it got a hard thin bar just at organ level ?
its more relevent than any data you have presented. other than waaaaah i want to go faster but im not allowed and whataboutery I’ve seen nothing.
So it’s not about combined rider/driver and vehicle weight? It’s about bars and things at the front?
I’m assuming these gravel bikes I hear about have bars, and from what I can gather they’re a bit like racers with slightly off-road tyres?
Surely you’d be averaging over 15 mph on one of them on a gravel track?
Yes Mick.
Been promoted to inspector?
I don't do drugs. Honest.