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So where do we see them being in 3-5 years??
For the first time today I actually decided there is one in my future. BUT I want it to be as light as possible with a lot smaller motor. My kind of riding is mainly long hauls up then steep fast descents and for me it would mean being able to access the descents a lot quicker resulting in a lot more down. Boom. Bang for your buck right there.
The new mondraker looks as close to what I am after but like I said I'm realistically a couple of years away from getting one.
Spend the next two years on a diet and getting fitter. Then spend the money you've saved not buying a moped on a skills course and a nice light trail bike?
Sorry, to answer your question. I see them banned from all but specific trail centres in a few years time.
Get one now. They're at a point where they work brilliantly for the riding you do.
I honestly wish I'd had mine 30yrs ago. If I want I can do 4 full top to bottom descents at Thornie in just over an hour. The same would have meant 4 hours of pushing our shitty 1st gen DH bikes (similar weight/travel) in the 90s
Realistically in the next 3-5 years they'll only get slightly lighter (for the type of riding you are doing) and there should be more battery range as that's what many current users crave most.
I'm fairly fit, have lots of nice light non-Ebikes (which I do actually prefer riding) and don't need a skills course.
it's funny how fitness snobbery seems to rear its head in every ebike thread here
...moped...
How original, do you write your own material ?
I see them banned from all but specific trail centres in a few years time.
Hilarious 😆
There will not be any significant change in that time unless a major scientific breakthrough in either motor tech or battery tech occurs
Ajantom, take today for instance. 3 and a half descents in Dunkeld. That's a thousand meters of climbing and descending. On the last run I met a pair of lads who had come up from Newcastle and were absolutely buzzing about the quality of trails. Now they were both shattered but being on e-bikes they had covered well over twice the distance and got 8 descents in. Those numbers must knock through your blinkers a bit?? No?
Now I don't need an ebike but I really do see the possibilities for opening up my riding area to me!
What is it about the Mondraker (Chaser?) that makes it the closest to your perfect Ebike?
I'm hoping there will be evolution in the price.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">I'd love one (and I'm fit/healthy/reasonably skillful etc) for all the same reasons that other people seem to plus the ability to tow my son up climbs faster so he/we get more riding in our time window. </span>
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> Despite all my reasons for getting one I don't think it'd be my 'go to' bike and so £3000+ is too much and I'm scared of getting one secondhand.</span>
Just not a fan. I'm liable to take the mick a bit, but of course if you want to buy one then fill yer boots.
I'll happily ride a route with 2000m+ of ascending/descending on my Singlespeed, so see no personal need for one.
On the other hand, my 75 year old dad who lives in the Pyrenees and still rides his MTB over 2000m passes is thinking of getting one, and I wont take the piss if he does.
Riding abroad you see a different attitude to them. They aren't as anti them.
I think the smaller/lighter setup is the way it'll go. The current bikes are pretty big and mega powerful on full power and I suspect they are slightly 'over'battery'd' to alleviate concerns about running out of juice.
I'd be interested in a lighter build, with, say half the power, just to help you up stuff. I have mates who see this comment as heretical.
Likely banned from bridleways in England and Wales in a few years, following high profile manslaughter cases arising from fatal collisions between hikers and silent, de-restricted ebikes doing 25mph+ A small number of dickheads will still ride them anyway, but furtively, looking over their shoulder for Ranger Joe and his posse of ebike hunters.
In response to this righteous purification of the countryside, special trail centres will open, or be converted, exclusively for ebikes. This will be the place for responsible ebike owners to ride but there will be no long hauls. There will be no big days out. It will be a shitcycling amusement park - £50 entry fee including full English in the portakabin before taking your mondraker up a motorway climb, grim traverses, then arguing with angry fatsos over who gets priority on the blown-out descents.
You'll look around at this picture of mediocrity and ask yourself how did it come to this? When all you wanted was a bit more bang for your buck....
Looking round our campsite in Finale at least half the bikes are ebikes and the majority of them are Kenevos. Most of the camper vans are VWs and D plates.
Glad we left ours at home as the guided uplifts have been awesome
No one cares whether you're a fan.
No one cares how much climbing you can manage on your singlespeed.
Your ignorance is far more amusing than your poor quality unoriginal piss taking.
Hey geex, I change my mind on that mondraker, a photo on progression bikes Facebook made it look like it had a small battery and motor. On second look I was wrong.
Good points all round. But 2000m climbing on a single speed, why?
I'm with Gary_Lager I reckon they will be banned on bridleways within 5 years, but i'm more than likely be wrong.
But 2000m climbing on a single speed, why?
To brag about it on a forum?
Regrettably I agree about the future banning on bridleways. A few selfish d*** heads will ensure that happens.
if not wanting it to look like an Ebike is high on your priority list it'd be hard to overlook the 2019 levo
No one cares whether you’re a fan.
No one cares how much climbing you can manage on your singlespeed.
Your ignorance is far more amusing than your poor quality unoriginal piss taking.
Ignorant why? I'm not bragging about my climbing or riding ability, just pointing out that I don't really need or want an ebike. I have bikes with gears too, but sometimes I like to go for long hilly rides on the bike with one-gear.
I think they're a crap piece of overpriced marketing BS, but if you want to drink the Koolaid then go ahead. Is it more fun if it's easier, or you can do more laps, or can go twice as far? Or are they an example of a lot of things that are wrong with our current 'me first' society.
How would a deregulated e bike doing 25mph be any different to a Strava Hero hitting a walker or horse rider on a descent? I see lots of people posting GoPro videos and they don't even slow down a bit when passing people, which must be pretty terrifying.
It also amazes me that some people think that mountain biking is just about fitness. Of course it can be if you want it to be, but there's plenty of styles of biking that don't require much. And I imagine the majority people usually endure the climbs to get to the downhills.
Mountain biking isn't my main way of keeping fit, so if I want to do a long or hilly ride then I have to take it easier in other forms of exercise through the week (gym/ running etc). The fitness is a by product for me, not the main reason to bike.
I don't have an e-bike yet but I will probably end up with one.
Is it more fun if it’s easier, or you can do more laps, or can go twice as far?
yes, yes and yes.
I hope that settle the matter to your satisfaction! 😆
Is it more fun if it’s easier, or you can do more laps, or can go twice as far? Or are they an example of a lot of things that are wrong with our current ‘me first’ society.
My 70 year old mum has an ebike. There is a 30 mile loop I can ride with her on my carbon roadie and she can keep up.. Beats me on the hills but Im faster on the descents. They are brilliant Imo.
They aren't for me just yet as most of my riding is for fitness, and although an ebike will get me further it won't make me fitter. But if I only wanted to do winch and plummet type riding they'd be great.
As for ops question, I think the move will be to less powerful lighter bikes like the focus ebike roadie, which looks pretty much exactly like a normal bike but gives you a couple of hundred Watts extra up a climb and weighs about 12 kg.
As long as they keep them restricted so they don't become 'electric motorbikes' why would they be banned? I do more than 15 mph on pretty much everything other than climbs so they aren't any more dangerous than a normal bike Imo.
How would a deregulated e bike doing 25mph be any different to a Strava Hero hitting a walker or horse rider on a descent?
It's not any different. I have the KOM on a short sharp local climb. it's a sprint really and I've equalled the KOM on my roadbike, 4X hardtail and BMX. On my Ebike I can't match it. Even derestricted.
Descending speed is the same on an Ebike, sprinting is slower. on the flat (restricted) they are also slower.
As for ops question, I think the move will be to less powerful lighter bikes like the focus ebike roadie, which looks pretty much exactly like a normal bike but gives you a couple of hundred Watts extra up a climb and weighs about 12 kg.
Yep, that's kinda what I was musing abiut today. My gnarpoon with a small not so powerful engine for those dull as dishwasher fireroads 😀
My 70 year old mum has an ebike.
I don't think the OP's a 70 year old or anyone's mum though. he just wants an ebike to make climbing easier and for it to look like it's not an ebike at all, which I guess tells us something
although an ebike will get me further it won’t make me fitter.
This is an interesting comment and it sounds as if you assume fitness is just about pedalling power/ability.
An Emtb can actually be used very effectively to gain fitness as it's far easier to stay in the correct effort zones you're targetting Easier even than a road bike. or still get a quality off road ride in on a recovery day. If you ride the bike properly you'll also gain upperbody and core fitness smashing out descents on an Eeb. not to mention the sharper skills you'll gain from riding more.
I don't worry about zones . Im not training to race, only get fit and less fat. I get your point but for me I doubt they would offer any advantage. Plus let's face it, they are ridiculously expensive for a nice one at the moment so I can't just buy one for occasional use as a n+1. What does appeal to me is that you could build an mtb with no focus on weight, put on as draggy tyres as you want, and it would not feel like a total slog on the climbs. Whilst I want to get fit I derive no pleasure from slogging a pair of super tacky minions up a farm road to get to a fun descent, so even my trail bike is built with a focus on being nice to pedal.
I'd happily use one occasionally if I was given one. Getting it up and down my 2nd floor flat would be a work out in itself.
First of I wish every thread would differentiate between E-bikes as in hybrid/utility personal transport devices and E-mtb's, especially the gnarpoon long travel trail/enduro things. The first group is great the second group not so much.
I reckon.
I see them banned from all but specific trail centres in a few years time.
Which as far as I'm concerned will be fine, because for every responsible user there'll be another who de-restricts one and rides like a knob, because thats how people are.
Overall, I find it hard not to disagree with this.
I think they’re a crap piece of overpriced marketing BS, but if you want to drink the Koolaid then go ahead. Is it more fun if it’s easier, or you can do more laps, or can go twice as far? Or are they an example of a lot of things that are wrong with our current ‘me first’ society.
I'll never ever buy a E-mtb, as I get older I'll ride less or not at all, everything ends one day. 🙁
Lapierre eZesty next year.
Smaller battery and motor, only going to weigh around 40lb I think
I don’t think the OP’s a 70 year old or anyone’s mum though. he just wants an ebike to make climbing easier and for it to look like it’s not an ebike at all, which I guess tells us something.
What does it tell you rocketdog?? That an ebike will let me access a lot more descents than my normal bike?? Because that's exactly what I said in my post.
What does appeal to me is that you could build an mtb with no focus on weight, put on as draggy tyres as you want, and it would not feel like a total slog on the climbs. Whilst I want to get fit I derive no pleasure from slogging a pair of super tacky minions up a farm road to get to a fun descent, so even my trail bike is built with a focus on being nice to pedal.
It's obvious you've not ridden one much if at all. Fitting super draggy DH tyres ruins how they handle on everything bar DH. for instance, try pedalling along a flat section, you'll get to 15mph no bother then the second you go over it the motor will cut and you're left pedalling a 90s DH bike. Lighter faster rolling tyres are far more nimble too. And believe me a 170mm Emtb need some help with regaining nimbleness.
Overly heavy Emtbs handle differently too and you end up riding them way less playfully for it. Once you get them down to around 47lb they start to behave far more like long travel non-motorised mtbs
Ignore the haters. They’re always the full Lycra “mountain biking is all about the climbs” types who carry their bikes down hill. You can usually pacify them by mentioning gravel or rapha.
So Geex, laughing at his lazy stereotypes, but my comments are ignorant?
I think it's a matter of emperor's new clothes....you've dropped £1000s on one, so you'll never admit they're a bit shit will you.
I’ll never ever buy a E-mtb, as I get older I’ll ride less or not at all, everything ends one day.
This is a really odd attitude.
Even if you are blinkered enough to think that ebikes are only good for “old people” why would you not take advantage of that yourself when you get old ?
Surely that’s better than denying yourself the enjoyment of riding completely just to prove yourself right about something you said in the internet 30 years ago. 🙄
What do you have against enduro bikes?
Nothing against enduro bikes, I just don't like E-mtb's. Is that all right with you geex ? Or does everyone have to be on the same page as you.
I always love it when E-mtb fans describe people with a different opinion as "haters". When time and time again on these threads the actual hate comes from the same small group E-mtb zealots 😂😂
Nope geex, never ridden one. I had assumed that being able to fit a set of tyres focused on the down hills with very little downsides when it comes to climbing would be a huge benefit. Appreciate as soon as the motor cuts out you are stuffed, but on the terrain I'd be riding one on I'd have thought that the only time I go over 15 mph is on the down hills anyway. Not much flat on any routes I ride that merit super tacky tyres, and I can only dream of climbing at 15 mph on my trail bike using pedal power alone.
colps comment about gravel was funny. On the other hand your ignorance is glaringly obvious every post you make. You've no idea how much my Emtb cost, or how much any of my other 10 bikes did, yet another ignorant statement. Ignorance as in lacking knowledge before you get any more upset.
I'll actually be far more honest than most about the limitations of ANY bike I've ever ridden or owned.
My Emtb has limitations, of course it does. Every bike does. but overall it's an incredible bike to ride. and surprisingly good VFM
I tried an ebike for a day recently in the lakes, and it was great. Really enjoyed it. I dispatched boring climbs much quicker, felt like an Olympian on technical climbs, and had more energy to enjoy the descents. For trail centre type riding, they make a lot of sense. I cranked the power up towards the end of the ride, and ran out of juice with about 10 minutes left to get back to the hire place - it was a pig to pedal back even that short distance (admittedly, I was tired).
They don’t really make sense for me yet on my home trails, where I wouldn’t appreciate the climbing assistance so much, and I suspect even when managing the power, range might be a real issue. I’m sure I’ll get one eventually, but to complement, rather than replace my conventional bikes. N+1 will be easier to justify when the prices come down too.
tp. that drag affects sprinting too. a 7yr old can sprint past 15mph.
I'd be surprised if you never pedal at above 15mph on the flat, out of corners, even sprinting up short charp climbs. 15mph is really not a high enough assistance cut off. and tyre drag is the biggest hurdle to overcome when it does.
Well I love mine and I'm shit hot on a trail bike...
Evolution will be lighter but higher powered batteries. 3-4 years. I work in automotive electronics and I think ebikes will easily piggy back off automotive tech.
colps comment about gravel was funny. On the other hand your ignorance is glaringly obvious every post you make
Funny, really? Mildly amusing at best. And you have no idea what, where or how I ride.
Just because I disagree with you makes me wrong and ignorant? That's the real joke 😘 have lovely evening spaffing off over your overpriced kids toy.
I predict we will see ranges increase, and weights and prices decrease, fairly rapidly.
This is a really odd attitude.
Why do you come on here NG ? I come come to experience different opinions and occasionally share my own. All of us have a different view on life.
I'm nearly 60 and I'm writing this thread sat in my MX van waiting to race tomorrow. I won't be able to do this much longer so I'll give it up, I've no wish to somehow make it easier. Because for me then there'll be no point. One day the same thing might happen with mountain biking, and I'll feel the same about that.
As I said different people different outlooks and opinions, I enjoy learning about all of them even if I disagree !!
It's having no knowledge of the subject yet spouting all kinds of nonsense with no basis or experience that makes you ignorant. which funnily enough is why your wrong aswell.
I have no interest in what where or how you ride. The thread isn't about you. it's about Emtbs
I always think anyone using the ‘moped’ comment is just trying to hide the fact that they are secretly fuming that someone is riding up the hill quicker then them 😜
I actually felt ever so slightly guilty overtaking people on normal bikes with ease uphill when I tried one recently. Didn’t stop me throughly enjoying the overall experience though. I don’t begrudge anyone riding them. I did the same trails on my own bike too, was still great fun, just slower uphill, and much more exhausting.
It’s having no knowledge of the subject yet spouting all kinds of nonsense with no basis or experience that makes you ignorant. which funnily enough is why your wrong aswell.
Welcome to STW 😃
ajantom, the thread was about ebike evolution, and some people started to discuss that.
But then the usually comments came in, completely ignoring the thread point.
I’m a climbing hero, e bikes are shit
I’d rather give up than ride an ebike
It’s cheating
Get the trails closed
moped
blah blah
It gets a bit boring, it’s been done to death
The thread title wasn’t “do you like ebikes” or “will you ever get an ebike”
Oh, it'll never get boring. Unless I start riding an ebike. Sorry, what were we talking about again?
Anyway, I'm off to bed to rest my humungous quads ready to Everest a local hill on my SS tomorrow.
🙂
If you're dyed-in-the-wool anti-ebike, why even open the thread?
I can see myself getting an e-bike at some point in the future. I would look for 140-160mm F/R travel, as that would match the kind of terrain I think I would use it on. A hardtail would be pointless for me. I don't think I'd be using it for nightride in the woods, but Dunkeld, Craigower, Alpine off piste... TBH I don't have the mental strength to tackle a 1000m vert. fireroad climb in 30 degC heat, but an ebike might make it bearable.
The current barriers are weight, cost and range.
Weight will likely drop very slowly.
Cost may drop slowly, but not if weight and range improve significantly.
Range - would regenerative brakes help? Certainly, but at an impact on weight and cost, and IMO they'd require a fundamental redesign of drive systems.
regen = pointless
Ignoring the usual pish from the usual suspects...
I reckon, for the type of riding I love - winch and plummet type stuff - E-nduro bikes are the future. Lighter batteries, longer range, sleeker lines, I'll defo be getting one at some point.
Got a few mates with them, and planning a wee day with them soon on Arran, demoing the Focus Esam, really canny wait for it. 😊
Back on topic.. That lapierre looks like the kind of thing I think will become common place. Awesome looking bike and if only 40lbs that's pretty much the weight of my old dh bike, which was ace
It looks great.
I think the motor & battery slide out of the bottom as one unit and then it’s basically a normal bike too.
I think this is the best of the current bikes
Focus Sam 2 Pro
Ignore the haters. They’re always the full Lycra “mountain biking is all about the climbs” types who carry their bikes down hill. You can usually pacify them by mentioning gravel or rapha.
Not always, I spend most of my time these days riding dh tracks and whilst I wouldn't describe myself as a full on e bike hater I'm not a fan of them. Even knowing I could get in a lot more descents on a ride with an e bike dosen't make me want one, I'd much rather do less descents/or a shorter ride using my own legs.
I've never got the bit about them being for so older people can carry on riding either, I'm in my late 30's and regularly ride with people 20 years older that are still pretty quick riders. I sold one of my old frames recently too and the guy that turned up to collect it was well into his 70's and still riding regularly.
I know everybody is different but I still see e bikes as the easy way out/lazy option and i don't think that opinion will ever change.
Riiiiight ..........
And what’s that to do with ebike development again?
As I said different people different outlooks and opinions
Nobody is stopping you having an opinion, but that doesn’t mean people aren’t allowed to comment if they think it weird.
What’s the best recipe for a classic Victoria sponge?
Victoria sponge is rubbish, I’ll only ever eat digestives.
Exactly colp, there's enough threads discussing the whole gamut of opinions, let's keep this one about the actual bikes, and where they'll develop.
https://www.velonews.com/2018/09/news/uci-to-organize-e-mtb-world-championships-in-2019_479427
UCI to organize e-MTB world championships in 2019 (!)
but that doesn’t mean people aren’t allowed to comment if they think it weird.
Can't for the life of me see where I've implied anybody can't comment about my opinion ?
But I find it weird that that someone on a cycling forum thinks its weird that someone else isn't a fan of certain types of motorized bicycles 🤔🤔
Riiiiight ……….
And what’s that to do with ebike development again?
Absolutely nothing but somebody tried to make out all people who don't like e bikes wear lycra and walk downhill which is rubbish.
Anyway since when did anything on here stay on topic!
Colp
Ignore the haters. They’re always the full Lycra “mountain biking is all about the climbs” types who carry their bikes down hill. You can usually pacify them by mentioning gravel or rapha
Just like the incorrect generalities toward e biking that is total rubbish. In my opinion anyway.
Personally,I do like the climbs,I like the challenge. Particularly as I'm not very fit.
I'll give the downhills a damned good go too, though my technical abilities are rather lacking...
Anyway.... Its most definitely not "all about the climbs" but they are a part of biking. I wouldn't want to live in a flat world personally.
That Focus Sam looks the schnizzle but the twin battery option is a bit funky for me.
Imagine a 1kg 800wh battery, that would rock!
Colp, how's the Powerfly? Did another 12 miles on mine after lunch today, including a mountain climb I haven't done in 25 years since I was 15!
In the future I think eBikes will need filters over the motors to stop sucking up too many follicles discarded from the hair shirts of all those they pass on the climbs
what makes you say the Focus is the best current bike colp?
It was on my shortlist but the small battery and single pivot were why I discounted it. higher BB and longer stays were another. It was also quite a bit lower spec and grand(ish) more
That Sam is what I'll be taking for a demo - from that very shop too!.
My mate has the exact one linked, it's freekin awesome, I reckon he's faster on the steeps than he was on his nomad, which is a fair accolade. Hes a very good rider, but a lifetime of racing MX bikes and jetskis has pretty much wrecked his knees.
He rides pretty much every day now on his Sam, and as a result, is fitter than he was when he rode his nomad 2 or 3 times a week.
I’ll happily ride a route with 2000m+ of ascending/descending on my Singlespeed, so see no personal need for one.
I've ridden events with you and you aint all that...
Mincing down a fireroad isn't the descending that some Ebike riders are looking for.
****ing quote thing on here now is a nightmare.
I wouldn’t let the small battery of the Focus put you off, it gives you a light platform for a 20 mile ride depending on hills etc, but you can quickly add the second battery if you want to do a larger ride, that gives you just over what the top end new Levo would give you, plus no need to carry a spare on your back.
The evolution is happening as we speak.
I've been out today on my Kenevo and Mrsstu has been out on the new Levo.
That thing is so light and the range so much bigger than my Kenevo that's only a couple of months old...
If only it was slack enough...
Still ****ing impressive though.
I’ve ridden events with you and you aint all that…
Mincing down a fireroad isn’t the descending that some Ebike riders are looking for.
Ouch!
Yup, scathing! 🤣
2019 levo Stu? ridiculously good looking bikes for a 29er nevermind an Eeb 😉
Which model?
And won't an angleset work?
Sick of his shit trolling TBH.
At this point the big boys are pushing them out to their younger fitter guys to get them more mainstream.
I can see some restrictions, if you don't see how a ban in some places will happen then a nice heavy bike, been ridden faster than somebodies skills can cope with into a few kids will see to that.
The evolution if they want more mainstream traction will probably be in lower powered, smaller batteries that gives people a little more go but not a haul. gets the overall weight down.
But for the piss take...
It's the electric golf cart of mountain biking!!
Mintyjim
The Powerfly is really growing on me.
I think I’ve got everything pretty much set up right for me now.
Had a blast around a local loop earlier. Lots of short steep climbs on sandstone that are seriously difficult on the Capra, flat out flattish sections with poppy jumps, roots, 2 - 4 foot drops.
A lot of the time I’m doing around 20mph so no boost, the bike in itself feels great, only feeling the extra weight a little bit. On the little steep climbs in insanely good for keeping the flow going.
Got about 9 miles in while the wife was walking the dog!
Geex, I’m a sucker for bling and looks! But from the reviews I’ve read that Focus sounds fantastic.