[Closed] The day cyclists took over the road

You really do have to wonder at the state of journalism at the Daily Mail - it makes depressing reading and as for the comments section you might as well blow your own brains out trying to make any sense of them 😆

I used to like it when all links to the DM went via a STW page reminding you what you were about to do and to double check you really meant it.

Unfortunately they know the senile gammons who predominately made up their readership will lap up this shite as is evidenced by the comments.

I try to avoid the DM and particularly the comments section, but I couldn't resist this time.
There's a lot of hateful people out there.

Reminds me of the Evening Standard story I saw a week or so ago saying you could get fined for not using the Dutch reach to open your car door. I was briefly annoyed, then just realised morons gonna moron and moved on. I wonder if these so called journalists are ashamed of their ****wittery. Can't be easy writing that shit for a living.

Given the misinformation the DM have put out about the Highway Code changes, can we make an official complaint to the Press Complaints or whoever it is?

I bet none of you stupid cyclists pay road tax! *froth *froth *froth

I bet none of you stupid cyclists pay road tax! *froth *froth *froth

No, but the VAT on my cheapest bike is more than the VED on my most expensive car - this usually takes them a couple of minutes to process. Then we move on to jumping red lights and riding on the pavement

Always amazed and scared how easily they can whip up a frenzy over some very clearly fabricated examples.

I know the comments are standard DM readership but is anyone genuinely concerned about a backlash from motorists over this?

When I'm driving behind cyclists I always wonder what they wear under that sweaty lycra Urgh

Nothing. Nothing at all muhahahahaha.

Wait until they hear about bum butter…
As for being genuinely concerned about the reaction of some drivers, yes, I think the DM’s recent articles are incitement. There’s enough hate and ‘othering’ in this country already.

I'm not going to read the Daily Mail.

It's not good for me, and it's not good for them either. If I were to read their trash, they might think that they should continue. And I wouldn't want to ruin their lives like that. I couldn't deal with the guilt.

Not at all funny.

Too many "ordinary" people believe this ****

is anyone genuinely concerned about a backlash from motorists over this?

Nope. Same as it ever was. Pricks being pricks online. Same attitude as ever out on the roads.
Meaning, if someone is a psycho nutter, or a thick no-look moron, behind the wheel, they still are, no difference. Hope I continue to steer clear of them.

but is anyone genuinely concerned about a backlash from motorists over this?

I wasnt until the hate and its associates did their best to whip up a "backlash".
Now a minor concern although with most of its readership the main risk is them dying of a heartattack at the wheel and killing some innocents.

Went for a walk earlier, crossed several junctions without waiting for cars to turn in.

is anyone genuinely concerned about a backlash from motorists over this?

I shall be not be playing an entire concerto of copulations on the world's smallest violin for these butt-hurt drivers.

I'm taking the 'They didnt let us past for 8 miles' with a big pinch of salt..

Avoided the comments section of anything about the new rules as its just a clusterf*ck of hate

My job means I drive about 12000-15000 miles a year around the north west and I honestly don't know where all these "cyclists causing traffic jams" are hiding.

I can probably count the time in minutes over a week where I'm waiting to overtake a cyclist. Even on a busy road, there's usually a suitable gap in traffic after 30 seconds due to traffic lights etc.

How has this country become so hate filled and entitled?

I get sick of hearing the same shite trotted out by people who got their licence out a packet of corn flakes!

"oh, they run red lights"
"they don't use cycle lanes"
"they don't pay road tax"
"I can't see them unless they're dressed for disco"

In the meantime, driving standards seem to have fallen off a cliff to a point where it's like a badge of pride to drive like a tit!

To be fair, I had a group of cyclists I was unable to pass from Bochastle to nearly Loch Katrine - and only then as I called to be let passed. (Edit: that's 5-6 miles)

As ever is give and take - and be aware.

Johnw1984 about the same mileage, mix of work and leisure but I'm the overcrowded South and that sums up pretty much perfectly my experience.

should give them credit for actually posting all the new rules.

Don't agree with all of them. The stopping at a junction to let pedestrian cross is just asking for trouble.

Don’t agree with all of them. The stopping at a junction to let pedestrian cross is just asking for trouble.

It's the default in most of the world, even the USA, I'm sure we'll cope.

I do c130,000 miles a year, and daily drive a double decker coach in and out of the major Scottish cities (Edinburgh Glasgow Aberdeen Dundee and Inverness)
Commonly, while approaching a bus stop, a punter will be waiting to alight, and on occasion we’ll be following a person on a bike, at totally normal cycle speed.
The conversation, in absolutely every case starts off the same:
Punter “they’re a pain in the arse eh”
Me ‘nope, doesn’t bother me at all’
Long silence while they process that
Punter “you don’t mind waiting?”
Me ‘we’re not waiting, every bike is one less car’
75% of times that’s the end of the conversation.
Occasionally, they’ll have another go, usually about road tax or similar, but i never react, i think if people see that professional drivers don’t GAS about waiting for a few seconds, they might think about their opinions.
Arguing with them will never do that.

"Alexa! Show me a conversation by people who don't understand how tax works"

I know the comments are standard DM readership but is anyone genuinely concerned about a backlash from motorists over this?

I think the stupid passes (too close, on blind bends, etc) seemed to have increased a little on my commute in this week.
But that's my biased perception on a couple of sections of busy rural B-road, could be "punishment" after their rag of choice got them in froth, could just be the poor weather.

The overriding concern for all the frothers is really liability isn't it.

They're not actually looking to kill anyone, they just want to blast about all 'Toad of toad hall' style without consequences as they've increasingly done for the last couple of decades.
So the bit that probably grates most for them is the "hierarchy of responsibility" thing, the tax and bicycle MOT bollocks are just the bleatings of people (mostly blokes of a certain background I'd hazard) who see the world mainly in sunk cost terms, and equate spend to 'rights'. Having it enshrined in the HC that the money ****ed away on fast car/fuel/insurance/VED buys them no favour with the law when they exceed their driving talent quota and flatten a MAMIL is just going to piss them off... Nothing anyone says or writes will change that, so their impotent rage might as well be harnessed for clicks...

Are walkers and bicycle users safer this week than they were before? Probably not, our culture didn't change overnight just a document that most road user's don't read...

I used to like it when all links to the DM went via a STW page reminding you what you were about to do and to double check you really meant it.

Definitely this. The DM has an unfortunate habit of being rather fast and loose with facts, not to mention their usual hypothetical arguments that guarantee people of a certain mindset continue to buy the hate filled shitrag.

It’s not good for me, and it’s not good for them either. If I were to read their trash, they might think that they should continue. And I wouldn’t want to ruin their lives like that. I couldn’t deal with the guilt.

This. Don't encourage the DM, if at all possible don't buy stuff from the people who pay to advertise in the DM.

The stopping at a junction to let pedestrian cross is just asking for trouble

Is stopping at junctions to turn right also asking for trouble? I do that almost every time I use the car and I've yet to be run into

Well I for one noticed the chaos and mayhem on the road this morning.

Can you give some examples Matt. Interested to know.

Personally this soon in I would have thought everyone would pretty much continue to do as they always have. Bikes stay in to the side, drivers do their thing.

I've re-evaluated my thoughts a bit in recent months. As a cyclist that mainly rides road and gravel (with road sections) now, including some commute through a notorius pinch point I used to think it was that drivers hate cyclists.

My daughter's learning to drive, and I've been sat alongside her for many journeys in the past few months. I've had a chance to watch more drivers, with the benefit of mirrors and time, and security of not being about to be taken out by some arse in a metal box. And honestly, most drivers are perfectly patient, even if frustrated by being held up. And then there are the absolute tits that don't care.

Sure she's learning and also learning to pass a test, which is different to 'normal driving' (should it be? eg apparently what the examiner is looking for on a roundabout is for second gear, 10mph, and time to check both sides of mirrors before signalling off, which I'd happily take almost without slowing if the road's clear) We've had some ridiculous under and overtakes on roundabouts just to get one car length in front. Overtakes in a 20mph zone, over double whites (charitable would be it was dark and no evidence of oncoming lights) There are times at some junctions I feel we are moving ridiculously slowly but if that's what the examiner looks for.....yet some drivers will flash and beep regardless. Yes, we know we can go but we're learning.

Changing the laws / HWC WILL be a good thing for most drivers, and they WILL re-evalaute some of their driving practises as a result. Those that don't care now and drive like tits will continue to.

The stopping at a junction to let pedestrian cross is just asking for trouble

You're right!

As a driver you should definitely be allowed to squash that Ped, if not an impatient tailgater might damage your rear bumper, and as we all know human life and physical wellbeing is always trumped by the cost of replacing a Mondeo bumper on someone else's insurance...

I've been drawn into a couple of "discussion" threads on social media accounts belonging to well known car enthusiast sites, for the most part the criticisms come from car owners with a sense of entitlement. The usual points apply "why don't you pay road tax, why do you jump red lights/ride on the pavement/etc".

I'm not above replying along the lines of "there aren't any traffic lights for me to jump where I ride" and "I pay council tax AND my car is in a higher VED band than yours, so I should be able to ride my bike wherever I like".

It's petty, I know.

I believe this man speaks for the average DM/Sun/A Proper British Bloke Just Saying What Everyone Thinks ™ - demographic.

The video is an interesting insight into the mindset

Thread relevance begins @ 2min 40sec in (Sweary/graphic content)

There’s also the environmental devastation caused by cyclists.

A casual glance at the comments reveals that obese male in van stuffing face with his daily Big Mac (assumedly for the pleasure of Daily Mail readers?) gets them thinking about science and global warming?

So there is that.

Poe’s Law invoked.

Groupthink/confirmation bias is key to Blue Van Man’s subscriber base:

I don’t know if it’s different for White Van Man? Would prefer to consider men in vans on a case by case basis. The thought that there are many people like this and out there is just too depressing for words.

<satire>
Stay safe on your bikes. In your lycra. They don’t ‘hate’ you, they just see you as a public pest, and now The Law is helping you create more pollution and delays to normal people, just so you can be selfish on your stupid bicycle.
</satire>

Firmly on the side of cyclists and common sense here but I daresay there will be more than a few cases of entitled and/or moronic cyclists deliberately taking primary, riding 6 abreast or something in inappropriate situations without ever moving over "just because they can".

All the froth will probably blow over in a few days/weeks and it'll all go back to normal anyway. Hopefully the start of better behaviour all round in future though. A large responsibility for driving instructors to drill in good behaviour.

It’s the default in most of the world, even the USA, I’m sure we’ll cope.

but it isn't here and not everyone is going to know about the change. If people actually do it that is. I'd wait for clear traffic before crossing anyway, don't trust drivers not be idiots.

Thanks P7, that’s genuinely hilarious “I read somewhere…”. Obvs the cheeseburger that your blue van man is scarfing down has been made from sustainable locally sourced ingredients.

For anyone interested, here is what British Cycling (with help from Dame Sarah Storey and Chris Boardman) proposed to the DfT (and of course what we eventually got):

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/campaigning/article/20220127-Highway-Code-–-Riding-two-abreast-0

TL;DR

(A lot to condense, but my best attempt:)

On balance we have gained a great deal and the wording of rules 66 and 213 and much of what we suggested has been adopted. There are however some disappointing aspects.

The addition of the word ‘stopping’ in Rule 66 once again opens the door to arguments on the road and the perceived ‘right’ of a driver to overtake even when there is no basis for doing so

The omission of this aspect of our suggestion for Rule 213 – “….and avoid being overtaken where this could be dangerous” – is a significant omission in our view and is a missed opportunity to state clearly that enabling a safe overtaking manoeuvre by a driver should be a mutually agreed decision on the road by the people cycling and the person driving.

The missed opportunity to change the wording of Rule 154 relating to rural roads is another disappointment in our view and fails to address the aggression and misunderstanding that many clubs and social groups experience on rural roads every weekend…

… We feel there is a need to continue to push for the exact changes that we sought, particularly on Rule 66, and we will continue to work on behalf of our members with colleagues at the Department for Transport to ensure that the point is made loud and clear

Thought I’d share this gem from the DM comments:

How is it possible that respectable and tax-paying car owners must now bow and curtsey to a gang of unemployed loafers, students, and vegetarians dressed in Lycra? The world has gone mad.

So now we’re all unemployed loafers, students and vegetarians…?

Daily Mail? What a dishonest, grifting, unprincipled nest of filth it is.

Some lowlights (complete lies) from their new campaign against road safety/anti-cyclist campaign:

(The Mail Online, Jan 30th 22)

Utter * Barefaced Lie Number 1: (Cyclists) took to the middle of the foad legally for the first time.

No, it’s always been legal. But now motorists can feel extra-aggrieved by it thanks to the DM lying about it being a new thing.

Utter * Barefaced Lie Number 2: ‘two cyclists pictured (sic) hogging the road’

No. Two cyclists riding lawfully and responsibly, while showing extra care to discourage/prevent illegal/dangerous overtaking on a bend.

Sickening how such dangerous lies are so easily sold.

but it isn’t here and not everyone is going to........

It is now, and they are.

Chin up, you can still be king of the road in the minds of mail readers, Clarkson and the marketing department at Audi. Just not in the real world.

I know I shouldn't but I couldn't resist getting involved in the post on my town's facebook group about this.

Same old shit of course but it's bloody satisfying setting a trap and having them walk right into it.

The Al Gore-rhythm just decided to present me with this glittering TV turd:

So given the baseline ****wittery of the public and the telly/interweb/newspaper spouters apparently guiding their thoughts, I honestly don't think much will change in people's daily behaviours on the roads.
Ed Balls can get in the sea now too...

The explicit hierarchy might make prosecutions a little simpler after the event, if used to determine individuals duty of care in a given circumstance (discuss?). But even then I'm not sure how the police and CPS will actually interpret the updates.

Like I said a document has been editted a bit, that's not a guarantee of cultural change. Right now it's just more culture war fodder.

Its (sadly) neither shocking to note how many road-users (including people on bicycles and people in police uniforms) never knew that riding two abreast

https://road.cc/content/news/222648-video-essex-motorbike-cop-tells-cyclists-they-mustnt-ride-two-abreast-even-after

or taking primary*

Taking the lane is recommended by government-approved cycle training scheme Bikeability, because cyclists are safest where they can see the road and be seen. If in doubt, primary position should be the default road position.

Section 163 of the Highway Code states road users should: "Give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car."

were already both legal (and encouraged) road-safety guidance.

*’riding in the middle of the road’, a long-standing yet always incorrect and unfairly-loaded/carefully biased turn of phrase. A phrase which we shall no doubt hear much more often since this latest chum-ridden feeding-frenzy.

Any programme that invites commentary from Archibald Graham is beneath contempt. Graham clearly hasn't actually ridden a bicycle in at least two decades.

Can you give some examples Matt. Interested to know.

@dyna-ti - I missed a wink off the end of my statement.

It's ridiculous the whipping up of the issues - MSN news is leading with 'war between motorists and cyclists'.

Even my wife commented that the new rules are nothing new, just common sense any driver would do, e.g. letting a pedestrian cross at a junction before you went round it.

Riding primary has always been permitted.

My 26 miles today still showed drivers do not care. I was primary in the inside lane keeping up with the car in front - car by the side 9outside lane) decided he was having my space... even a loud Oi didn't stop him barging in, as he needed to turn left. Must have shat himself when I turned left too. Add in a close pass and a really stupid aborted overtake.

I think i should reevaluate my earlier comment from hilarious to downright depressing.

Though most of the DM comments are a bunch of made of lies, along  with much of the DM report, i is a sign of how few are aware of the rules of the road before the changes, though in the changes it uses the language (on 2 abreast) to say 'reminds' that is a legal technique, and that the DM and its over opinionated readership are completely unaware of any of the rules in the first place.

Quite astounded though a cop would be unaware of the rules,as they've a huge list of infractions they use to evaluate infraction- and its penalty in fine and/or penalty points for everything a driver might do.

I think its a sense of entitlement that makes many think they can act as they lease and to their own benefit and interpretation of what you should or shouldn't do when driving along in relation to other road users.

Maybe we should encourage articulated lorries to up the ante and start to cut up car drivers as car drivers cut up other cars, bikes and riders.

I also think its probably now more than ever more prudent to have some sort of dashcam on the bike both fore and aft.

Client I met on site last week started spouting this bollocks until both myself and the other guy we were meeting told him we were cyclists and put him right on a few counts.

Client I met on site last week started spouting this bollocks until both myself and the other guy we were meeting told him we were cyclists and put him right on a few counts

I love those conversations. People trying to make small talk by telling you how much they hate cyclists…

This "middle of the road" line is everywhere... Radio4 were using it in their news headlines. That DM example even shows a rider central in their lane (they could be coming up to a junction, or there's a pedestrian looking like they might step into the road, who knows) NOT the "middle of the road". There's a whole other lane there for overtaking if need be. Yes, it might be too busy to overtake at just that moment... but... the rider is in the correct lane... NOT the "middle of the road" as if about to turn right.

I was thinking about this on my ride today. At least the outraged  DM reader can’t claim ignorance. They might not like the clarified rules but at least they are aware of them. The worst drivers out there are the ones who don’t give you a second thought and you may as well be invisible.

Well, today I spent about 20 mins on the road between trails and committed the ultimate no no of hopping onto the pavement instead of waiting at the red light and received a beep from the guy at the lights, but why get so knarked by it, there wasn't any pedestrians present for me to endanger and I was removing myself from situation when the lights go green so they don't have to worry about me being there, then about 10 mins later I mounted the pavement to overtake a mature couple riding two abreast, I shortly returned to the double yellows only to hear my second and third beep of the day, but those were aimed at the couple a good 30m behind me.
My question is, is it a roadie thing to feel comfortable in the middle of the lane or are mountainbikers doing it to, genuine question as I'd be far too anxious to do it myself.

I only ride in the middle of the lane when I need to, ie blind corners, traffic islands, etc where I don’t want someone trying to squeeze past. I think most passes that people describe as ‘punishment’ passes are actually just oblivious passes.

DM readers can’t claim ignorance.

Ironically.

My question is, is it a roadie thing to feel comfortable in the middle of the lane or are mountainbikers doing it to, genuine question as I’d be far too anxious to do it myself.

Not quite sure if/how I qualify to answer. Is a ‘roadie’ someone who is a sportive rider on a racing bicycle? Or just someone who cycles for work, transport and/or utility/cargo? Someone touring via all roads? Someone on an MTB transitioning to trails? Someone riding a bike to school? An older person riding to the shops via road on Raleigh Twenty (or a Tern GSD?).

I’ve been all of these things (OK not so much the first) for 44 years now. I used a bike (and occasional PT) exclusively until buying a bike-replacement (car!) at 36yrs old, yet never felt entirely ‘comfortable’ on British roads. Less so in the last decade or so. There have always been close-calls and a couple of collisions (both from drivers, both from behind me).

I do feel less vulnerable in primary on occasions where the alternative (nearer the kerb/verge) would risk me being unseen, ie possibly smeared by vehicle from the rear on a ‘fast’ left-hand bend in a tree tunnel, or else placing self in the door-zone. So it’s more a case of taking the primary being safer/less suicidal in certain circumstances. ‘Comfortable’ is not really the word I’d use for taking the lane (unless a quiet minor lane or city street) as is simply the (best-judgement allowing) ‘safest’ option (vs further left) yet this doesn’t at all necessarily mean ‘safe’, just ideally less dangerous than the alternative.

https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/19897769.3-men-arrested-close-york-minster-armed-police-move/

Let's see if the DailyHeil pick up on this story and twist it to suit their agenda.

Ha - check out drum n bass on a bike on youtube. now that's cyclists taking over the road!

Is a ‘roadie’ someone who is a sportive rider on a racing bicycle?

Yes. As in that popular saying. "Look at that sad old roadie"

Let’s see if the DailyHeil pick up on this story and twist it to suit their agenda.

Who had the firearm?

Been pointed at this rather amateurish but actually pretty thorough review of the Highway Code changes on YouTube - might be useful to point argumentative bellends towards it