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Mods - it's high time something was done about this. Almost daily we get threads started where folks on the forum have been fleeced, mis-sold items, misled or otherwise unfairly treated by 'sellers'.
At the very least a 'safety tips to buying online' sticky on the classifieds would be a positive step; at a more draconian level, a rogues gallery would hopefully dissuade those wishing to take advantage of the mainly goodwill on singletrackworld.
I'm sure others agree.
[i]I'm sure others agree[/i]
I don't.
You're buying from a complete stranger, so you have to use approriate caution. Caveat emptor and all that. It's not up to Singletrack Towers to do anything, it's your responsibility as an adult to decide whether to take the gamble or not.
What everyone could do is, after a succesful sale/purchase, post a message to that end on the original ad. That way an informal 'feedback' is built around sellers and buyers.
IHN has it.
Anything which involves the mods doing something is an added overhead to the cost of running the forum, so who picks up the tab?
There should be a rule saying sellers must not ask for Paypal Gift payments.
[b]INH[/b] - that's a great idea. If the buyer just posted the user name and OK, eg "bluebird OK", you could do a forum search and gauge the seller's trustworthiness.
[i]There should be a rule saying sellers must not ask for Paypal Gift payments[/i]
No, there shouldn't. If you don't want to pay PP Gift, don't. If you want the protection that PP gives either come to an arrangement with the seller over who will pay the PP fees or don't buy the thing.
Just buy Horas old stuff Pook. When I say 'old', I mean the stuff he's taken out of the packaging, returned twice under warranty, then decided he doesn't like it/them, and bought something else. Repeat. 😀
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[i]If the buyer just posted the user name and OK, eg "bluebird OK", you could do a forum search and gauge the seller's trustworthiness. [/i]
Just to be clear, I'm not saying start a new thread, I'm saying to post on the original classifieds thread, just something like "stuff recieved, all good"
or maybe if there were a sticky on the classifieds that people posted that on....
people aren't going to do the username ok thing unless there's an explicit structure in which to do it - and how much maintenance would a buyers guide take?!
Maybe put up a comments page on people's profiles, so buyers and sellers can rate each other?
[b]INH[/b] – Exactly, that's what I meant. Stick it as the final post on the for sale thread.
Thing is, if there was a problem, that sticky would turn into an argument thread like the recent iHewhoshallnotbenamed thread.
Posting on the original ad shows what was bought, the seller can post about how quickly the payment was recieved, the buyer can say how quickly the stuff arrived, and any argument shenanigans will kept within that thread.
EDIT
[i]people aren't going to do the username ok thing unless there's an explicit structure in which to do it. [/i]
There is, the original classifieds thread is there already.
The Idea IHN made is the best i think.
You then have a reference to the sale, when, where, and if the transaction was a good one.
If you are buying from someone, just search their profile for old sale threads, and bingo.
If the user is new, and has no verified active sales... then make other precautions.
If new users were to vet older users profiles and sell them goods, maybe they should only pay when the goods arrive! Then the trust needs to be on the seller, not the buyer.
Best approach is feedback in the original thread such that a quick search turns up information.
Other than that, someone can make a dedicated stw-classifieds gmail with an open to view google doc spreadsheet of names to avoid which they update periodically.
I'd do it right now but gmail is blocked.
Retrobike have a set of selling guidance/rules:
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17697
Rules & GuidanceGeneral
- Abuse of classifieds will result in a temporary or permenant ban from the entire site at the moderators discretion. Registering another username during a temporary ban (we can and will check) will result in a permenat ban. Two misdenmeanours will result in a permenant ban.
- No 'how much' posts in the main forum or elsewhere. If you really really need to ask how much your item is worth you may post on the "how much" thread here . We suggest you look in the classifieds, ebay or elsewhere if you are genuinely unsure of an items value.
The advert
- All adverts to include a price, this includes responses to wanted adverts. We suggest all adverts should include full details and a picture.
- No "offers over" or "best offer above" adverts allowed. If you want an auction go to http://www.ebay.co.uk and pay their fees.
- No more than five adverts to be placed at one time or on page one of the for sale or wanted forums. Extra ads will be deleted at the discretion of the moderators. Some discretion will be given if old ads are 'bumped' by other users. We stongly suggest you combine for sale posts.
- Do not 'bump' your sale or wanted post more than once in any 24 hour period.
- Parts must be in owners possesion before offered for sale.
- No commercial adverts. Mail admin@retrobike.co.uk for commercial advertising details.
- Swap or trade adverts acceptable, please mark as such, i.e. FT
- Please mark adverts where you are giving away items away appropriately, ie FOC or KARMA
- Dibs are non-enforceable and strictly at the sellers discretion.
- Leave the price in the advert after the item has SOLD. This is good for future pricing of similar items.
- Do not remove description from item title, e.g. change it to SOLD.
- No need to post a reply to your thread when the item is SOLD (thus needlessly bumpiung said thread). Simply edit the original post to indicate the item is SOLD.
- Keep commentary on pricing to a minimum - the value of retro parts is very subjective.
- Some 'trading' is acceptable - wheeling and dealing is part of the retro scene. However if you are doing it consistently suggest you use ebay > http://www.ebay.co.uk .
- Cross posting adverts is permitted if the moderators feel it justified. However only one advert will be left unlocked to avoid confusion. We reserve the right to remove cross posted adverts.
The deal
- Use your common sense and discretion!
- Check the users feedback. Either through the feedback forum or by clicking the feedback link below their post >
- We stongly suggest you do not use paypal gift, especially for new users or those with low feedback. As well as giving no protection in case of issue this also breaches paypal's terms and conditions.
- Exchange 'real' contact details like name, address and phone number before the transaction occurs.
- We strongly recommend all items are send via recorded post.
After the deal
- Ensure the item is posted in good time. Equally ensure you leave a reasonable time for it to arrive.
- Use the feedback forum for all trades. Don't be afraid to leave bad feedback if you're unhappy - you could save someone else from having sililar problems. If you wish you can also PM the seller to indicate the goods have arrived.
Problems?
Remember we at retrobike supply these adverts free of charge as a service to buyers and sellers. Although we will try to assist in case of problems ultimately this must be sorted between buyer and seller. If this is an issue suggest you use a service like ebay > http://www.ebay.co.uk . where there is more comeback.
In case of a bad seller or buyer please bear in mind all we at retrobike can do is ban them if fault is found.
We suggest you make every effort to contact the other party directly before a 'public outing' or contacting a mod. If you feel you need to make a complaint to a mod please supply the following information
1. Are you buyer or seller.
2. Other user involved
3. Item and price paid.
4. Link to original advert.
5. Nature of complaint.
6. How have you contacted other user. PM, email, phone ?
7. How did you pay? If Paypal gift was used contrary to our guidance this will not be looked on favourably.
8. How was the item sent? If the seller did not use a recorded service contrary to our advice again this will not be looked on favourably.
May help here
[i]You then have a reference to the sale, when, where, and if the transaction was a good one.
If you are buying from someone, just search their profile for old sale threads, and bingo.
If the user is new, and has no verified active sales... then make other precautions.[/i]
Nail. Head. Hit.
You're buying from a complete stranger, so you have to use approriate caution.
Aren't people scammed because of their own greed? Save a couple of pennies here by buying something ridiculously cheaply, save another couple of pennies paying with PP gift. Scammer's paradise.
Surely the provision of leaving comments at the bottom of a FS thread is already available and democratically the masses have chosen not to.
Ah well, maybe someone else will come up with a solution, eh?
You been fleeced Pook?
nope.
talking of classifieds, anyone want to buy the 26" dmr SS wheel, an x-fusion hilo, some oem rebas or the set of monkey bars that my mate bought, fitted, and promptly changed for hi-rise?
all the above for, er, three hundred smackeroonyes, papyal gift only k thx bai.
EDIT
MASSIVE SHED CLEAROUT!
(well pretty big shed IMO)
Why don't they just get their software monkey to run a bot that trawls for usernames and ip addresses and prevents multiple accounts from the same IP.
That way you CAN just search by username.
After that it's caveat emptor.
EDITMASSIVE SHED CLEAROUT!
(well pretty big shed IMO)
Also mods this needs fixing. Please ban people I keep coming on here trying to buy massive sheds but there are never any for sale.
[quote=continuity ]Why don't they just get their software monkey to run a bot that trawls for usernames and ip addresses and prevents multiple accounts from the same IP.
Because the majority of the population are on Dynamic IP Addresses.