[Closed] The Big Feature: Trail Centres...depressing reading

Problem is that it's that sort of stuff you don't really get naturally, and it's fun to ride. For techy stuff you're never going to really get anything as good as natural trails in a trail centre IMO, as most trail centres are designed so people aren't going to die trying to ride them.

However, I still think trail centres need a bit of tech, if they were proper groomed (like the olympic xc track) that would just be mind numbingly boring.

Just think how amazing they'll be once MTBing ceases to be the New Golf and they get overgrown and fall into disrepair before being cleared by a small group of locals.

I tend to agree with you. I get annoyed by people having a pop at Sherwood Pines or Cannock for not being rocky droppy gnarr fests.

A trail centre can - and imo should - simply make the best of the available terrain. A Midlands trail centre doesn't have the geography to be a "big" Welsh-type trail trail centre, but it should have enough decently maintained trails to suit as wide a range of skills as the local terrain will allow. That's all I ask, and it's all people should really expect.

Just think how amazing they'll be once MTBing ceases to be the New Golf

Road riding is already the new new golf. Keep up!

Problem is that it's that sort of stuff you don't really get naturally, and it's fun to ride.

That's part of the issue as I see it. The fact that those features don't occur naturally are why I don't like them much in MTB trails.
I don't mind the odd jump and berms done well, but they should be sympathetic to the surroundings not stand out like a sore thumb.
(The new bit on the MBR and the Minotaur trails at CYB being a classic example of eyesore trailbuilding.)

franki - Member

The fact that those features don't occur naturally are why I don't like them much in MTB trails.

But it's also why it makes sense to build them. I mean, we could go and build some old-style wiggly XC at glentress, but then, there's tons of that already in the wild but you can't just go out into the hills and find a load of berms and jumps, right?

Also... TBH there's also the fact that some features are just plain easier to build and maintain than others. If we build wiggly, slightly challenging singletrack, people destroy it in no time- cut every corner til it's a motorway. (see- Zoom or Bust)

The new stuff at CYB will be less ugly once they've bedded in and there's some encroachment... But they're both on felled hillsides aren't they?

Just think how amazing they'll be once MTBing ceases to be the New Golf and they get overgrown and fall into disrepair before being cleared by a small group of locals.

We rode some of the now dissused stuff at CyB the other week.
You'd never even know it had one been a purpose built trail. 😀

I guess for me, the draw of trail centres was more the waymarking than the fact that the trails were purpose built. A decent xc ride where you could belt round withoud having to stop to check directions.

If you want natural features then natural trails are the answer to your problem, and there are lots of natural trails.

However, if people want table tops and berms then there are only built trails, mostly at trail centres, to answer their problem. So it makes sense to build stuff that is not on the majority of trails that already exist. Trails like the Orange run at Laggan are totally unnatural but an awful lot of fun. If you don't like it there's normal trails on the other side of the valley.

And why not build tech stuff? You have a total blank canvas to make something rideable but also very difficult. And riding difficult stuff is great fun.

this move away from techy xc trails towards groomed stunt tracks is getting a bit much, imho

Why on earth would you say that?

People build something to allow them to do something. Doesn't really affect you does it? Why should we all enjoy the same style of MTBing as you? The natural trails are all still there. More of them than ever in fact, ime.

I love trail centres, but I love natural trails too (the good ones). I've rambled wild in the mountains and got lost with my bike on my shoulder, I've also done the Cwmcarn DH trail with all the yoofs.

I like Scifi movies, but I don't complain when other people make and watch romcoms. In fact if it's a good romcom I'll watch it too.

I don't understand people complaing about what other people want to do when it doesn't affect them.

CYB circa 2001 (just after MBR opening and 'toughening up' of the Karrimor) was IMO the epitome. Not liking what's there now.

If you want natural features then natural trails are the answer to your problem, and there are lots of natural trails.

However, if people want table tops and berms then there are only built trails,

I see the sense in that, but as I said the waymarking was the important bit. I ride "natural" trails all the time anyway, just sometimes it's nice to go to an area you've never visited before and have a spin without worrying about navigation and ground conditions.
I'm happy with trail features being included, but in keeping, rather than being obvious stand out features.

Still not sure what your point is.

this move away from techy xc trails towards groomed stunt tracks is getting a bit much, imho

Why on earth would you say that?

People build something to allow them to do something. Doesn't really affect you does it?

Well... it sounds from the article like it might. Any new developments appear to be going to be biased towards bike park style trails. So that would mean no new "old school" xc waymarked stuff.
Of course I'm not saying that trail centres shouldn't have jumpy trails built (just because I don't like them, I wouldn't want to spoil other riders' fun!) but lets not make that the only type of new trail to be built.

I'd have a go with a GPS. I move around all the time with work and take a GPS with me with a route plotted ready to go. For example, today I am driving down to Cornwall and have 2 road rides in it. Previously I've been over to Matlock, ridden a 15 mile mountain bike ride after work in a couple of hours and gone home. There are no trail centres near me but it's easy enough to ride elsewhere quickly without having sign posts.

I can't stand this smooth as a babys bum gravel stuff. The sooner this is stopped the better. Trails should not be as smooth as tarmac.
Franki; just stick to the blue or green trails?

Just think how amazing they'll be once MTBing ceases to be the New Golf and they get overgrown and fall into disrepair before being cleared by a small group of locals.

Yeah, just look at all the overgrown, disused golf courses littering the countryside!

So that would mean no new "old school" xc waymarked stuff.

Hang on.. when the old skool was the skool, there was no waymarking!

Should be space enough for all types, but it's disappointing when old stuff that folk like (e.g the MBR stream drop/climb at CyB) gets replaced with identikit fast bermy stuff. Add the new stuff, but don't replace the old !

Hang on.. when the old skool was the skool, there was no waymarking!

LOL! You know what I mean. Like the original CYB trails.

I rode Pearce Cycles red trail at Hopton yesterday. That' s an example of how a good man-made xc route should be, imho. Not too much surfacing, jumps and berms used sensibly and making use of rocks and roots that were already there. Fast and techy descents, hard climbs - perfect! 😀

I haven't read the article yet but this is something that I've been thinking about lately, and it appears that there is an evolutionary shift taking place. Whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know, but 'XC' might be a dated term for what many people experience as mountain biking.

I just hope trail [s]centre[/s] park riding doesn't become the be all and end all of mountain biking in the UK. There's nothing wrong with trail centres, and I like a good blast now and again, but there's so much else out there, and it would be sad to see other aspects of mountain biking left behind.

All your bike-park features - table tops, jumps, big berms everywhere on wide fast tracks

That's what I like about trail centres! If I(you) want techy natural singletrack then just go to The Peak / (insert any other good natural trails here).

If you build any jumps on natural trails - well you know!

Not too much surfacing, jumps and berms used sensibly and making use of rocks and roots that were already there

Like Cwmcarn then?

Actually, what you are describing is natural trails.

Plenty of wiggly singletrack in the trail centres I visit.

If you want jumps and berms you can go to GT ot Innerleithen. If you want wiggly singletrack you can go to Drumlanrig or Mabie.

Did a big loop in the Peaks the other week, did shed loads of climbing, lots of tech, lots of good descending, but an awful lot of the descending was on road or down wide double-tracks and that was something of a waste I thought, beautiful as it was...

The beauty of most trail centres are that you can go there any time and know that you are going to be able to hit some jumps and rail some berms and have a lot of fun. In fact, my main gripe is that there just are not enough jumps, drops and kickers on your average trail centre route. We need more sick airtime!

Other times I love being out in natural trails and I also know where I can go for that. Most centres are now becoming a good mix of bmx track-style stuff and harder, more techy stuff. This is good. 🙂

Butcher wrote:

I haven't read the article yet but this is something that I've been thinking about lately, and it appears that there is an evolutionary shift taking place. Whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know, but 'XC' might be a dated term for what many people experience as mountain biking.

The nearest man-made trails to me is 40 minutes drive (Nova and Y'Tis). These all-weather trails total just a few kilometers long. "On my doorstep" is the Mendip trail/stealth network amounting to perhaps ~100km.

Absolutely nothing to be depressed about.

I tend to use trail centres when the local conditions are crap because they tend to drain, i don't ride them because they are some mtb version of a skate park.

But i can't be arsed going to somewhere with loads of jumps and drops, if i want to ride jumps then i would buy a bmx, jumps aren't why i ride, never have been never will be. So whilst i enjoy skyline or the old penhydd, i have no time for w2.

It is a long time since i last spent any time at CyB, and it used to be ok, not sure about what has happened in the last few years though.

I enjoy Cwmcarn because whilst manmade it uses what is there, and yes there are a few berms and jumps but i wouldn't say they add anything to the last decent. I would say it does spoil it for me, i would much rather they lost the berms and tried to create some more singletrack.

The FoD track is basically a big BMX track and whilst the odd lap is ok, it feels very artificial and isn't a place i can be bothered riding regularly.

All your bike-park features - table tops, jumps, big berms everywhere on wide fast tracks that are a massive ugly scar on the countryside.

Firstly the jumps at a lot of trail centers are often awful, lips to steep and high for the length of the jumps so you have to squash the hell out of them; or two mounds meant to be a double going uphill. If they are going to put jumps there the people who build the jumps should be able to jump so that they know how to make it flow.

Secondly a lot of the berms are in the wrong place at trail centers making them completely useless anyway.

In essence they should build all the features you don't like but only if they are going to build them in a way that works.

I think it depends on what's popular, a lot of trail centres (CYB, Glentress, Dalby etc) are businesses at the end of the day to varying extents, right? They have to go with what's popular/'cool' (cringe).

I'm relatively new to mtb (started about 4 years ago) but in my opinion kids 'these days' get into it because they see downhillers doing huge airs, freestyle guys doing massive whips, and all of the various ways these styles influence 'trail riding'. Due to this the trail centres have to cater to what's going to get the most attention, and at the moment I think that's A-line style bike park stuff.

I'm with the bit of everything crowd, I love going to Lee Quarry and sessioning the short red/black runs, but there are times when you sigh and wish you were in a forest, lost somewhere, or about to charge back to Langsett from the Cairn at Cut Gate. It's all about variety.

It's all about variety.

And that's what worried me in the magazine. In two places it was stated that everyone wanted bike park style features when a new build was destined to take place.
It probably wasn't a good sign that Llandegla was featured. I've ridden there twice, I had a lot of fun, but I can't see me being bothered to go back any time soon, it's just too synthetic. It's good that places exist like Llandegla, but I don't want that to become the blueprint for all new builds.

I guess for me, the draw of trail centres was more the waymarking than the fact that the trails were purpose built. A decent xc ride where you could belt round withoud having to stop to check directions.

Get a GPS?

The appeal of trailcentres for me is exactly the sort of stuff described, fast bermed jumpy swoopy stuff that's usable all year round and that doesn't have the worry of a walker, horse or dog just around the next corner.

I tend to take the view that trail centres are great and have definitely added to the popularity of mountain biking. However, in my top ten rides, no trail centres feature and aren't likely to either. The days that stick out for me are the ones that involve big mountains, tech riding and stunning scenery, something that very few of the forest based trail centres are able to provide.

Not really a trail centre, but at QE Park where there are tech bits, people just bloody ride round them and make new lines anyway!
Maybe its all this Strava crap.

big mountains, tech riding and stunning scenery, something that very few of the forest based trail centres are able to provide

I dunno about that.

But my top ten best rides would include a big variety. Trail centres, Surrey Hills, Mid Wales, the Lakes probably too.

I cant qualify this statement but im guessing that to cut a new trail but keep it looking like part of the original mountain side with roots and ruts and all number of techy bits would cost a lot more than grading out a trail and creating features like jumps and berms. These features are all the work of a machine and could be done relatively quickly. So cost would be a big driver here?

Trail centres are always going to be a victim of their own popularity - the need for the trails to cope with volume means surfacing, and making them wide/accessible for easy maintainance. Doesn't really lend itself to the kind of natural features that so many of us want to see.

Coed-Y-Brenin has managed to retain some good, natural stuff - I'm thinking the Tarw trail in particular - fast, loads of corners and fun, but still full of delicious rocky goodness. Not many like it, sadly.

Another thing to consider is that I can pretty much guarantee there is riding like the OP is after available at most trail centres, it just might not be waymarked!

I go to trail centres for the bmx park style riding. But agree there is more to riding than that.

There are a few that don't just go for jumps and berms. Drumlanrig springs to mind. I can't see people building slow steep technical dowhills that require a bit of luck to get down clean. What makes natural riding fun is the unpredictability and changing nature of the trails. You come across stuff and don't know if it is rideable until you have a go - trailcentres can't do that.

My biggest gripe about trail centres is that they are so short. It would be nice to see some extended routes (using natural trails if needed and cheaper) to make a decent days riding. Seems a shame to drive for a couple of hours for only a few hours of trails.

Just for the sake of clarification:
I'm not interested in the natural vs trail centre argument here, I enjoy riding both.

I was just disgruntled to read that the type of trails built in the future will be more and more of the bike park style - this being the type I like least.

cut a new trail but keep it looking like part of the original mountain side with roots and ruts and all number of techy bits would cost a lot more than grading out a trail and creating features like jumps and berms.

I've sometimes wondered if the easiest method would be to repeatedly ride an enduro motorbike up and down the same wiggly line all day. Then let the rain do the rest.

Jumps, berms etc are my favourite thing about biking, bike parks are awesome. Not enough trail centres have good jumps though, at the ones ive ridden they're always small and a bit crap.

My favourite trail centres are the more natural ones though just because i kind of feel that due to the aforementioned crap jumps, id rather not bother and ride some fast singletrack instead...

Also i always feel as though the people who say the "bmx track" comments have never actually ridden a proper set of jumps as they're not that similar to trail centre jumps.

I can sort of see where the OP is coming from in that many of the older generation of trail centre trails have been retired (Penhydd at Afan, Pink Heifer at Coed Y Brenin) and the replacements tend to be groomed, machine-built affairs.

On the other hand, a lot of riders always liked the smoother bits of the old trails the best (Sidewinder and Hidden Valley at Penhydd were hardly rock-strewn techfests), there's no shortage of rough bombed-out trails, and the tendency is for new sections to get techier rather than smoother.

Also why is riding an MTB over man-made jumps and berms not considered "mountain biking"? "BMX track" is used as a perjorative term yet I'd be very surprised if the majority of posters on this thread have the skills to ride a BMX track properly. Self included.

I've ridden many trail centres, and I can't think of one with decent jumps - thanks to H&S.

But then again, I don't go to trail centres for the jumps.

I've ridden many trail centres, and I can't think of one with decent jumps - thanks to H&S.

^^For real^^

To many on STW (and trail centre visitors in general), a 'jump' is a 1m high table at a trail centre with no lip - big enough to get 12 inches of rad air at speed - but safe enough to roll over for riders with less experience (who H&S have to cater for). And yes, I am stereotyping.

It's not a bad thing, and I certainly don't feel disappointed by the lack of jumps - as I didn't expect to find any in the first place.

If you're complaining at the lack of jumps at trail centres, either build your own, or book yourself on an uplift..

Even though Llandegla is practically on my doorstep Ive only used it once and wouldn't rush to go back tbh. I far and away prefer XC through the Clwydians and around Eryri

but im a relative newcomer to all this

If you're complaining at the lack of jumps at trail centres, either build your own, or book yourself on an uplift.

Why, a good trail centre caters for all. Miles of rolling and undulating trail is fine, but chuck a few advanced features in and everyone is happier at all riding levels.

Thats the point, a trail centre gives you what you can't get naturally. All thats good and varied about biking, in a concentrated area.

The problem is H&S won't allow the builders to chuck in 'a few advanced features' - as advanced to you and I, is somewhat different from Joe Bloggs who's much less experienced.

Won't stop him attempting to ride the advanced features though - and it will probably end up in misery.

Im with Franki on this one why do the trails have to be six foot wide? bloody typical I do not use my Burley trailer any more grrrrr 😉

Anytime you want to visit franki let me know 😀

There's something weird about all the trail center jumps I've seen. Despite being old(er) and afraid(er) than your average 12 yr old, I do get down my local motocross track and will quite happily aim at a jump and have probably had both wheels 10-12 feet in the air. I think this is because I get a broad run up, a long take off, and lots of room to land.

But your typical trail center table top is just odd. Almost vertical take off, 1 foot wide on top, and barely a bike length long if that. Combine this with the most common things that I think could go wrong - getting kicked over the bars, land to one side rather than on the top, or landing rear wheel on top and front off the end... They seem designed for disaster and I want nothing to do with them!

I'm not a jump building or a jumping expert but I think a lot of people would be happier on a bigger obstacle, which may look/feel less contrived too.

I'm not reading all that ^^ so here's my take on Trail Centres.

Myself like most of you on here, cut my mountain biking teeth on natural trails and much prefer a wild natural ride than a trail centre. However!

Having ridden many trail centres around the country what i have seen is more families enjoying the simplicity of a trail created and waymarked to provide an mixed and therefore all ability centre for off road cycling.
This surely encourages more people into the sport whilst not over crowding natural and sometimes sensitive area causing excess erosion and damage to an already frail reputation given by a minority user group of whom we share the natural trails.
For many people the local woodland trails are to steep, muddy, lacking facilities, etc which puts off some riders old and young. Yes, there are plenty of kids that'll still tear around down the local bomb holes, but there are still plenty who enjoy riding, but are a little more pampered to be allowed to risk injury on a piece of local land that's not been constructed confirming to all the health and safety rulings that Trail centres should have.

Reassurances that every possible steps have been made to ensure the best rider experience without all the fear that could come from taking a ride out there in the every changing environment, far from roads, people, and therefore help should anything happens for the worst.

Many of us riders take for granted are own abilities and capabilities in the case of an incident to health or bike, therefore trail centres have there place.

A place to progress, to socialise, to nurture and to ride without having to think about a route.

Some of us ride daily, some weekly, some rarely.
We all need a place to ride, a place to suit the riding we like, with whom we like to ride with.

Trail centres open up mountain biking to many people and who can really complain about that,it's gets people fit, it gets people out there in the great outdoors and it gets people riding bikes.

And we all love a bit of that.

Waffle over.

Sharki.

I'm not a jump building or a jumping expert but I think a lot of people would be happier on a bigger obstacle, which may look/feel less contrived too.

+1, most of the crashes I've had or seen are from jumps that are small/poorly designed resulting in overshooting the landing. I always feel better on a bigger jump as smaller ones can feel like you're "tripping up" over it or something, feels much better to have the whole bike on the takeoff. Can't really explain it but hopefully someone else gets it!

Obama approves of sharki
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DezB - Member

Not really a trail centre, but at QE Park where there are tech bits, people just bloody ride round them and make new lines anyway!

Absolutely... At Glentress we have what I'm starting to refer to as The Example. On the main climb up to the top car park (blue graded) there's a red/black graded shortcut, that cuts across a corner up a couple of rock slabs, with a wee rock step to get you into the feature. Nice.

Oh except lots of people couldn't do the rock step, so they rode round it. So the rangers put up a fence. So they rode round THAT then rode the wrong way along the trail for a bit. So eventually, the rangers gave in and modified the entrance to tone down the step.

So now what? People are riding over the former step then UP THE SIDE OF THE MAIN FEATURE. So now they're actually riding absolutely none of the black/red graded shortcut.

For all of this, there's a main line that adds about 30 metres onto the climb. But they won't ride that, oh no.

And this is why you can't have nice things. Lots of mountain bikers are ****s.

I ride anything and everything. Sometimes I prefer trail centres; I hate riding on roads and through fields which many natural routes do, if it's been wet sometimes I can't be arsed to ride through a quagmire and have an average speed of 2mph due to mud. It's ok for sharks to say these things, he has some of the best natural riding in the country on his doorstep. I agree that its great that families and beginners have places to ride but to suggest that people who ride trail centres are lesser skilled is ludicrous. Most MTBers ride a mixture of natural, trail centres and downhill routes(I know I do).

I blame geography lessons. The countryside is a closed book if you can't understand maps.

[quote=buzz-lightyear ]I blame geography lessons. The countryside is a closed book if you can't understand maps.
Thank god!

And this is why you can't have nice things. Lots of mountain bikers are ****s

I just love that, very good.... 😀

_tom_ - Member
I always feel better on a bigger jump as smaller ones can feel like you're "tripping up" over it or something, feels much better to have the whole bike on the takeoff. Can't really explain it but hopefully someone else gets it!

This!!!

Although TC's do have pro's and con's same as natural stuff. I'm live under a mile from Cannock Chase and while the 'trails' are ok for what they are, the rest of Cannock is what provides the best riding, techy and flowy

The days that stick out for me are the ones that involve big mountains, tech riding and stunning scenery, something that very few of the forest based trail centres are able to provide.

Sanny you missed out pushing/carrying and bog trotting 😉

I must say that the most heartening thing I get from this thread is that there are far more people out there than I thought that want to ride proper technical trails. I thought I was in a minority of one despairing the proliferation of overgrown bmx tracks at various trail centres.

So if there are lots of people wanting decent technical features then why don't they provide them?

Health and Safety, you cry, it's too dangerous. But surely if it's a trail marked as being black then you can put difficult sections on it...

...or is the problem that someone will get hurt doing a proper technical piece of black trail and sue the centre saying that they've done super gnarly blacks with huge numbers of scary signs and warnings and disclaimers and signs and warnings at Llandegla and that other trail centres are negligent for not overinflating the difficulty of their trails...

The h and s stuff is nonsense on natural trails since no one built them for public use. So they get proper nice. Different matter with bike parks. Take a leaf out of the mountaineers yearbook and learn to be self reliant use judgement and only ride the hardest stuff when youve looked at it and feel ready. There has to be some small element of risk taking at least on some rides or it's not really sport. It really becomes golf on wheels or pony trekking which is fine but it's not the whole thing. I love finding stuff I can't or won't ride. What would happen if you lived all your dreams and there was nothing left to frighten you?

I much prefer natural stuff but like the occasional visit to a trail centre because they do have the jumpy bits you can practice on and stuff like 'Berm Baby Berm' at Glentress which is so much fun. GT was so rough and eroded in places yesterday that much of it felt like natural trails anyway.

I dunno if I'm spoiled by mostly riding in the Lakes, but for me 'natural' riding features plenty of techy, rocky stuff - so I'm quite happy with trail centres mostly being jumpy and bermy. I love Spooky Wood in Glentress and struggle to see why anyone wouldn't TBH.

I would agree a lot of jumps are not well made though - takeoffs generally seem to be too short/steep.

I wonder if the rubbish jumps are down to H&S...?
Trail designer says "we'll put a nice big table top in here, people can roll it, then float it, then maybe jump when they're ready" to which some H&S goon says "oh, it's too big, small is safe" and we get the utterly horrible "dirt poured over a microwave oven standing on its end".

Maybe jedi knows how they're supposed to be approached! 😀 But the pictures of his back garden show, to my eyes at least, full sized, wide, well made jumps.

It's not just trail centres which suffer from H&S - I was at Farmer Johns MTB Park (Stockport) at the weekend, and there was only one reasonable jump and one small gap. The jump had a flat top for the chicken run, but you could easily sail over the whole thing if you wanted (about 1-2m high). The gap has a chicken run 's-bend' going through it.

Everything else designed to be a jump was just a short pile of rubble, about 1 metre high. More like large speed bumps you had to absorb, else you landed flat (hard!) the other side.

They have plenty of land, and some good trails which could easily accommodate some decent jumps - wonder why they don't?

Whistler = Proof that tech and flow can both be present at trail centres, as long as a regular maintenance programme is installed.

Whistler = Proof that tech and flow can both be present at trail centres, as long as a regular maintenance programme is installed.

I would argue there's tech and flow on both the DH tracks at Fort William too - so we clearly can do it this country.

I would argue there's tech and flow on both the DH tracks at Fort William too - so we clearly can do it this country.

I'm not saying we can't, I was just taking this opportunity to brag about have just got back from Whistler

Well I've read most of that.

OP +1, FWIW, was going to say more but can't be arsed.

Whistler = Proof that tech and flow can both be present at trail centres, as long as a regular maintenance programme is installed.

Yep, Whistler has to be the biggest trail center in the world.. even if you forget about the bike park.
Trouble is you need a membership in excess of 1500 riders paying $45 each, a council that appreciate the merits of allowing potentially dangerous mountain biking trails to be built on its land as well as a provincial government that wont tear trails off crown land.. as well as land developers who are obligated to replace trail that they remove when developing land... significant government grants and based on a 2006 study, a resort destination that brings a rider spend of over $6million to the resort from xc mountain biking visits alone (an additional $18 million associated with the bike park)

Once you have that, you can build whatever you want.. not just the trails that pull in the majority of the riders.

No one says it has to be on the same scale: Whistler Bike Park has 50-odd tracks. The average UK trail centre has around 2-6

I've sometimes wondered if the easiest method would be to repeatedly ride an enduro motorbike up and down the same wiggly line all day. Then let the rain do the rest.

Thetford do this, just replace the words repeatedly with "hold a race".

 

I struggle with long sentences, but is this 'mountain bikers', a demographic grouping which seems increasingly to include people who spend £1000-£2000 and upwards on bicycles, then about half that sum again on fancy bags and hats, and glasses, and shoes, and sports drinks, and gloves, and baggy trews and cart all this kit about the country in quite expensive cars, complaining that the purpose built trails, the trails built expressedly for them to indulge their pastime, at no expense to themselves, are not meeting their needs?

The same trails that are free to use?

OP, pop over to Stainburn. The black route sounds up your street 🙂 Plus Norwoods full of superb natural trails (well at least after a long dry spell, so not this year).

And that's the problem with building natural feeling trails. Most trail centres attract big numbers and soon become blown out ruts if not built properly. And building tech is very labour intensive and subjective. Whereas, berms and jumps are based on a formula.
If you add even the most simple tech features then too many people just ride around them!!

If I have a choice I will ride a natural trail on a good day every time but that never ending berm on the Verderers Trail doesn't exist in nature 🙂

So these 'natural trails' (sorry, this cracks me up)

They're man made, almost exclusively, just not exclusively for bikes. Potato Alley is not the result of millions of years of erosion. Dollywagon Pike? Yup, those steps and drainage channels are the result of centuries of freeze/thaw!

So, I'll not complain about the features at a trail centre that I am under no compunction to ride, as there are miles and miles of man made trails straight from my front door, or else easily within a short drive in the Lakes etc. Some are 10ft wide, some I can barely squeeze my stupidly wide bars through.

To the OP: I kinda get what you are trying to say, but suspect you are not the target demographic of those building trails, and that is what it is about.

Numbers around tail centres are falling, give it a few years and all centres will be back to natural trails due to lack of funds.

[i]Numbers around tail centres are falling[/i]

Evidence?