[Closed] The best thing about a gravel bike is when you take it on a road ride and...

Great write up , your lucky living somewhere so pretty 🙂

I did something similar a couple of years ago over a hill behind Creetown, but I was on a carbon road bike with 23c tyres, I didn't finish the ride with a smile on my face. Had to turn back in the end, the road had completely disappeared after the third gate.

Yours looks significantly better, am jealous.

When I did the hike-a-bike it was a bit of a gamble that the track condition would improve.

I could see the traces of a track as the ground rose up from the other end of the loch, and I reckoned it would not be so overgrown because it would be better drained. Otherwise it would have been quite a few miles of HAB. 🙂

Nice. That's exactly what it's about : )

Winging-it finds the best magic links.

Can't beat a bit of off road exploring..."where does this go?" = 😀

Superb!

Next time Strava it and "smash it" 😆

Actually, don't.

Lovely place you have there 8)

So... did you get to the Loch for a swim?

jekkyl - Member
So... did you get to the Loch for a swim?

Just a dip. My feet have gone soft and I was hopping on all the spiky little rocks. 🙂

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lovely -- can't fault any of that 🙂

Would my CX bike have been capable of getting me there, or does it need to be a gravel bike 😛

FunkyDunc - Member
Would my CX bike have been capable of getting me there, or does it need to be a gravel bike

I used to ride a dropbar racer on tracks all over the highlands in my youth, so I'd say yes.

But you'd spend half your time rattling along watching the track a few metres in front of your wheel for nasties and gotchas instead of cruising along in comfort enjoying the view.

I would probably have had to do a lot more hike-a-bike with 30mm tyres in the softer bits. A better or stronger rider may not have the same problem though.

So weigh up definitely possible versus enjoyable.

However regardless of what bike I was on, I'd have given it a crack, eg I've done most of the Great Glen Way on a 20" wheel Dahon with 38mm tyres (although it has been pretty well sanitised since then).

So if you're planning to do it, fatter tyres are nicer, but don't let the lack of them deter you. 🙂

But you'd spend half your time rattling along watching the track a few metres in front of your wheel for nasties and gotchas instead of cruising along in comfort enjoying the view.

That has done more to sell me the benefit of a gravel bike than any gumph I have seen so far about gravel bikes !

It's not a gravel bike but a 29er with funny bars.

So instead of having my soul sucked out of me by a road ride,

❓ I see little difference between a road ride and a your gravel ride TBH, specially knowing the condition of some of Scotland's so called 'roads'.

awesome, just plain awesome

The best thing about a gravel bike is when you take it on a road ride and...

And the worst thing about a gravel bike is when you take it on a road ride 🙂

Though TBH I'm not sure what that bike is. I'd have said this too...

It's not a gravel bike but a 29er with funny bars.

Nice ride, but as above that's not really a gravel bike 🙂

As above it's not a gravel bike but it's still an absolutely cracking post!

dragon - Member
It's not a gravel bike but a 29er with funny bars.

I'm calling it a gravel bike because that's exactly what I built it for. I don't care what the hipster marketing guys think, or the UCI for that matter. I think what are being touted as gravel bikes are missing the mark, they're too much like slightly stout CX bikes.

But the bike doesn't really need categorising. I wanted a bike that I could ride on the road to get to a given track, ride that track, and ride home. I consider that the size of the tyre has more effect on offroad capability than tread and on road you don't want tread.

That's not to say I wouldn't like tread on an offroad tyre, but I just don't fancy riding 40 or so miles on road with it, and the large volume Big Apple tyre can handle most offroad conditions I'd point my bike at. HAB does the rest.

Example: I ride 18 miles from home to where the road peters out near Braeantra, then on tracks from there to Alladale, and from there over and through the mountains via Loch Vaich offroad to Inchbae and then back on road home another 20 miles.

The off road bit is about 40 miles (used in this years HT550).

I built the bike up specifically for doing that sort of ride in comfort, and if that isn't gravel riding, I don't know what is. Therefore it is a gravel bike to me.

The great thing is you no longer committed to riding closed loops offroad. You can ride to a track, cross a mountain range, and cycle home from the other side. No cars needed.

Come for a quick ride and see what you'd class this sort of riding as. Here we go:

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And that's a great way to spend a lazy day in the saddle.

I wanted a bike that I could ride on the road to get to a given track, ride that track, and ride home

Exactly the same as mine.

I took my hybrid converted to 'gravel' out on some gravel the other day, on its 32c tyres. It handled it, but only slowly. As you said above - constantly watching for stones and potholes.

The great thing is you no longer committed to riding closed loops offroad. You can ride to a track, cross a mountain range, and cycle home from the other side. No cars needed.

Much the same as a mountain bike or a road bike. You're just trading compromises.

Nice ride though.

Yeah but it's a hell of a lot easier to do 15 miles on a rigid 29er than it is on a slack FS. So whilst you might be slower on the techie bits, that kind of ride really isn't about technical fun, and the fact that 15 miles of road isn't anything like as much of a chore makes the whole ride much more enjoyable. The trade-off in technical speed is more than worth it for the big days out. When you want that kind of ride, that is. If you want a technical blast, then you want a different bike.

I'm off the opinion that in 20 years time we will regard the current retail 'gravel' bikes as being as useful for that purpose as a current mtber would regard a late 70s mtb* for mountainbiking.

*Come to think of it, some of them would make pretty decent gravel bikes, because that's what they really were.

epicyclo, you put all the hipster fashionista's to shame. they can only dream of doing rides that you do mate, whilst cleaning and polishing their fashion led gravel bikes.

keep it up old lad........ 8)

Agreed!

😉

I had an Eastern Dartmoor version of exactly that kinda thing on my Vaya at the weekend - it's like 'mountain biking' was back in the early 90's!

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#1. The Vaya might not be a gravel bike - I've kinda lost track.
#2. On quite draggy, but tough, 700 x 38 Specialized Nimbus Armadillos.

I whole heartedly approve of this sort of thing. It's why I got a steel custom cx made with big tyre capability.

I reckon 40c tyres minimum, or even 45. Otherwise it's just chunky road.

Brilliant photos fellas. We need more of this!

I'm calling it a gravel bike because that's exactly what I built it for. I don't care what the hipster marketing guys think, or the UCI for that matter. I think what are being touted as gravel bikes are missing the mark, they're too much like slightly stout CX bikes.

You may not care but the marketing got there first and defined the gravel bike. A gravel bike is close to a CX bike because they are to made to go fast on very easy off road, and that is what they do well. As soon as it starts to get rougher then your funny barred 29er would be better suited and when it gets rougher still one of those even more funny full suspension things.

I agree that none of it actually matters but misleading to include gravel bike in the title....

I used to ride 'gravel' on one of these...

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Could we have a better photo of the bike Epicyclo?
A brief spec wouldn't go amiss.
Titanium?
Max

Would have been even better on an mtb.

My issue is people in the UK seem to have forgotten what a mountain bike (XC) is capable of, my off the shelf Trek 29er will do all what you are asking and so have XC mountain bikes since they were invented. We don't need marketing to tell us its a gravel, enduro or whatever bike. The UK could do well to return to just riding mtbs like most of the rest of the world do, there are some awesome mtbs out there that will carry you up and downhill till your legs drop off.

robowns - Member
Would have been even better on an mtb....

As it happens I've done this exact same ride on an mtb (29er) and its deficiencies on the road more than outweighed its advantages offroad.

kerley - Member
You may not care but the marketing got there first and defined the gravel bike.

Everything new is old.

So I'm pretty sure the marketing guys didn't get there first.

Maybe I'm defining what a gravel bike should be a few years from now. 🙂

Edit: I've deleted this bit, until I can find the reference.

Grand day out. A Salsa Fargo/ Cut Throat or a Deadwood would suit you, if you can ever find one.

I agree that rebadged cyclocross bikes as gravel bikes is cynical and lazy by the industry.

With the gearing that is suitable for off road and on road for an average cyclist, there is absolutely no reason to have a 30-40mm limit on tyre size at all. Its just a throwback to roadies with 53 chainrings using it as a winter bike.

With modern drivechains using smaller rear sprockets like 10 and smaller front chainrings, there is absolutely no need for currnt gravel bikes to run such narrow tyres.

In fact there is no reason for cyclocross bikes anymore, at all. Its an outdated deadend limiting standard that gives normal people sub optimal bikes.

On one were so close with the Bish Bash Bosh. Had they put a smaller chainring triple set on, allowed it to take 2.4-3 in tyres and given it a longer fork length. To match a Fargo, and they'd have sold millions of em to bikepackers accross the world as a Cut Thhroat alternative, but they missed the spec.

The big apples are heavy. Try Thunder Burts for utmost speed and good drip or or some 2.4 Xkings/ 2.2 Raceking for more gripand a just a bit slower.

Looks fantastic! Must get up to he highlands again....

Turnerfan1 - Member
Could we have a better photo of the bike Epicyclo?
A brief spec wouldn't go amiss.
Titanium?
Max

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It's a TD-1, and fairly obviously titanium, but any frame which can take large volume tyres will do. It's the volume that's important.

The Big Apples at 2.35" are as big a tyre as you can get without tread and they are the most important feature. As I mentioned I would give 3" tyres a go if they were available as slicks. Slick tread is important because the bike covers large distances on road and a treaded tyre on road is almost as wearing as skinny one offroad.

At the moment the only frames that will fit these tyres are 29ers. The older 29ers designed for rigid with steeper head angles are best because they work well in road use while losing none of their capabilities offroad.

I have done the same mods with a 29er Scandal and it was also very good for this purpose, and just as happy on the road (eg a day ride of 140 mile on road in a loop round Wester Ross). It was a singlespeed, which is perfectly fine for single purpose, but I wouldn't that again because the road gearing is too high for offroad for me these days.

If you want to try this I can recommend the Scandal frame. It's really light, it's a lovely bike to ride and they're inexpensive, so it's a good starter drug. 🙂

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It looks like I may have offended the niche taxonomists by calling it a gravel bike, but it does that job better than what is currently offered as such IMO.

Maybe I should invent a category for the do it all bike and call it a Proper bike. A bike you are just as happy to ride 100+ miles on the road as off.

I agree about gravel bikes being a bit light for what we would use them for in the UK, but to give these evil marketing types a break the name comes from the US where they have thousands of miles of pretty smooth fire-road, and that's what they are talking about. Not your jeep tracks from those pictures.

My mate's Shand Stoater has WTB Nanos on it and looks bang on. That's the sort of size I'd go for - personally I think 2.35 is too big if you know you are doing lots of road, although it's perfect in chalk downs-land, and what I'm using now for 50/50 road. The road is definitely a compromise though.

My Salsa is the same as your bike epicyclo except the bars, and I want to call it a modern day 'hybrid' because that's what it really is, except the name's taken.

I had an Eastern Dartmoor version of exactly that kinda thing on my Vaya at the weekend - it's like 'mountain biking' was back in the early 90's!

I was going to say the same: easy offroad exploring and a bit of tarmac to link it together was pretty well suited to a rigid mtb with 1.9" tyres. It's what I used to do, anyway.

it's like 'mountain biking' was back in the early 90's!

Maybe for you.. I was 18 and racing my mates down the best descents we could find 🙂

Yes, I agree entirely, especially about being 'drawn in' to these inviting tracks (although my wife does not agree). I just don't understand why Monstercross bikes never took off in the way that gravel bikes seem to have done.

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I was 18 and racing my mates down the best descents we could find

And how did you get there? I bet it wasn't by driving there, then pushing your bike up a hill like the modern rider seems to do.

Gravel bikes have taken off because the US drives the market, and in the US they were created for the gravel roads that they have in places like Colorado.

I spend most of my mountain biking on gravel in the New Forest. My riding seems to have drifted that way, as I seem to like the speed, getting about, and there is so much of it.

Some conculsions.

1. I actually prefer a slack head angle. The bike (an On One 456 carbon 26" with carbon Lurcher forks) will seem to just run straight so I can concentrate on pedalling and enjoying the view. My recent Swift has a sharper head angle, and its a good bike (I'm splitting hairs) but it's more normal but nevertheless faster handling, isn't needed when your riding gravel compared to singletrack - the road is straighter and your travelling faster.

2. I rate the Lurcher carbon forks better than the steel Reynolds Swift ones. They absorb more trail chatter. They are very good and lighter.

3. I rate the 456 Evo carbon highly, if your heads down, riding hard and fast on gravel, or singletrack, it absorbs alot of trail chatter generally. It's 26" but it's significantly smoother than the Swift with 29. It's also much lighter over gates. Lighter with a 3x10 than a singlespeed Swift.

Epicyclo, reallly you should get some Thunder Burts, they are supreme - almost zero road noise and very supple. Half the tyre weight than you got there.

4. All things being equal carbon is better than Titanium. My previous bike was a top of the line double butted frameset with 6/4 dropouts etc, and its very responsive, but the carbon 456 evo is much much more compliant and in a different league as an all day ride. The bikes were built exactly same - one has titanium everything (forks, seatpost, bars etc) the other carbon everything.

5. I've ended up on X kings 2.4 .They grip a bit better in the winter, with only marginally less role on road than the TB's, though I can feel the extra weight a bit. I'd say TB's summer, X Kings winter.

6. Swapping out a Truvatic Noir carbon riser for an OO Knuckleball chewy was worse. More chatter. Noir's back on.

Those pics look great, would love to find some 'gravel' rides near me. (Vale of Glamorgan) I'm sure there must be some.

And how did you get there?

We rode there, of course, but only because we had to. If we'd lived closer to the woods we wouldn't have. My point was with reference to someone saying "what MTBing used to be like" as if that was a preference. We rode those bikes on the steepest gnarliest stuff we could find because we had no choice, not because we chose them or our attitudes were somehow different.

But I digress. Had I had the money and the choice I'd have more or less the same bikes I do now.

OP like the "a little loop (50 miles) to celebrate getting back the full use of my leg"

always a little further:

looking good

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not unexpected

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maybe not [i]too[/i] popular

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no i did keep going until i heard kids playing on a trampoline

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back on track

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My mental brief for the Proper bike was for something I'd be equally happy riding 100+ miles on road, and similarly off road.

It's not a bike intended for specialist mtb circuits. It's to take me to nice places regardless of the surface.

My initial thoughts were for the sort of bike I could ride down from Dingwall to Melgarve, nip over the Corrieyairack Pass, and back along the south side of Loch Ness to Dingwall, ie a lot of road miles and some rough tracks.

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(I cheated, I got a lift to Kingussie)

The concept has been successful. The biggest day on road has been 140 miles (SS) and I'd be comfortable doing more. It's done plenty long hauls offroad, and can handle most surfaces if ridden appropriately.

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I have ridden lots of different types of road oriented and CX bikes offroad* and their biggest limitation has always been the skinny tyres both for control and comfort.

I've always loved the scenery in high places. The roads rarely take you there, but there's usually a track even if it's just one left by the deer and I'm not averse to a bit of HAB.

Here's another version of the Proper bike (a modified Avanti KISS). That ride started with the intention of riding up the the Bealach na Bah to Applecross from home, about 100 mile round trip, but when I got to Achnasheen I saw this track off to the side which went over to Ardroy, and it turned out to be far more interesting.

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Anyhow, I'm now off for a ride on my Proper bike and who knows what nice place it will take me? 🙂

*See [url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/wrong-bike-in-the-wrong-place-pic-thread ]Wrong bike in the wrong place[/url] thread, but judging by the lack of other posts, maybe my habit of heading up unknown tracks on whatever is less common than I thought.

I'd be equally happy riding 100+ miles on road, and similarly off road.

For me, it was that it had to be good enough on road. I wouldn't want to take my Salsa on a road only ride. I think I would like an alternative hand position for that purpose - either bar ends or drops. I did try bar ends but the large heavy wheels (relatively) needed more control than a 580mm bar, but any wider and it wasn't comfortable with bar ends.

ie a lot of road miles and some rough tracks.

Exactly my thoughts. There are many many tracks over the mountains* in the South Wales Valleys, but there are so many roads in the valley floors that you end up having to ride a lot of road to get to them. Especially if you start in Cardiff. If you ever come down here bring that bike and I'll show you what I mean 🙂

* Before any Scottish people ridicule me, in the Valleys the bit between two valleys is always referred to as 'the mountain' regardless of how high or craggy it isn't. I suspect it's because it's the best translation of the Welsh word mynydd.