[Closed] The 2019 XC Racing thread.

MSG Central region series has been scrapped.  🙁  Best wishes to the organiser thats been taken ill.

Does anyone know of a race in March that's not on the weekend of 16/17, and is no more than 90 mins from London?   I hate driving over 2 hours to MSG Henham, and Southern XC Winchester is about the same distance from me.

Had no intention of racing MTB this year, but since I was racing CX on my mountainbike anyway I've decided just to maintain whatever little momentum I had an enter rd1 of the Scottish XC series.

Definitely won't be fit for it after a month off nursing a sore knee, but I wasn't 'fit' for the winter CX races I entered and still enjoyed them once I adapted my strategy to my lack of fitness.

Hoping XC is a little less sprinty, a little more 'endurance' than CX, probably suits me better.

Oh, and finally, what gearing? Currently 38 x 11-40, but could go 36 oval x 11-40...

Oh, and finally, what gearing? Currently 38 x 11-40, but could go 36 oval x 11-40…

38 x 11-40 is probably considered on the higher end for XC, but should be do-able. If you have a 36t already, I'd probably throw that on.

I have 34 x 11-40 on my full sus XC bike which I occasionally race (but only because 40t is about the smallest cassette you can get for 11 speed).

I run 34 x 11-36 on my 10spd hardtail and raced it like that for a bit (and will probably race it this year), and the bottom gear there is is pretty close to your bottom gear.

I can't speak for most of the courses, but Cathkin Braes shouldn't have any long grinding climbs - it is more short, sharp undulations which should be fine for your current setup.

Who's over at MSG Round 1 today, what was the course like and how did you go??

I quite liked the MSG course this year bit more of a mix rather then the uphill grind of last year.
The uphill rock garden is a bit crap though in my opinion but I do love the whole Oak Tree drop section.
Not a great race for me as somehow I bent a chainring tooth and the chain dropped a few times and shifting was rough.

Personally I felt that was a climbers course, with even more climbing than the usual Hadleigh climbing.  I liked it though.

Odd/bad day for me.  I felt sick during my warm up sprints, was OK at the start until just under the finish line 1 minute later where my stomach rolled and any watts I had vanished somewhere.

I spent the whole 1st lap in a state of vague survival and seriously considered quitting, took the whole second lap to recover then finally felt better on the 3rd lap - but by then everyone was gone.  I had no legs on the climbs throughout, just decided to ride for trainings sake.

Ended up 46 of 54.

As I’m training for the Scott Marathons, and haven't properly tapered - just shorter VO2max & sprint this week - for this my coach said I wouldn’t have matches to burn and I’d be lucky if I had 80% to put out.  However although I’m not throwing in the towel on the coaching yet, I’m surprised 4 months of VO2max efforts didn’t help me today - I’m putting in a lot of work to dwindle down the rankings.

BUT - no moaning or excuses this year, it was a lovely day, the kids enjoyed Hadleigh and I got to ride a bike and be back in the race scene - happy days!

What was wrong with the uphill rock garden? It was tricky but doable.

Agree it is doable but hard to do every lap just seems a bit flip a coin if you will make it or not and as it is quite a blind corner if someone else has messed up your screwed.

First ever race at MSG today. How fast and way harder than I imagined8, but a great atmosphere and felt very welcome. So now i know what its like I well put some effort in and do better next time.

Ooooff, sounds like a tough day out - from feeling rough, to bent chainrings and uphill rock gardens!

The effort a commitment of you guys always amazes me!!

Really enjoyed my Hadleigh on sunday, wasn't sure where my fitness would be as I only managed 2 races at the start of last year and no CX races over the winter. But I was pleased to come 25th in open male, better than I expected.
My CB Highline started dropping of its own accord on the seond lap, but fixed itself by the end of the lap, which made things much easier!

I noticed (unsurprisingly) the bikes of choice are carbon hardtails. I raced on an Orange Four, weighing 12.6kg. How much difference would a lighter (say 10kg) bike make? Anyone swapped and noticed the difference?

Yes.  I raced my Spark on Sunday, had I known all the technical had been removed I would have taken my 3kg lighter carbon HT, it would have made a difference on the climbs*  I’m a sucker for comfort though.

At a certain point say 25/24lbs your investment is far better in yourself getting stronger / lighter in a controlled way if you are new to racing efforts.  If you’re established and not carrying extra flab then the bike will be third on the list.  Easier tomdrop a LB on the waist than on the bike.

*well not much for me as I’m sick as it turns out.

Thanks Kryton57, good to know. Last couple of years I have shed 20kg body weight (wasn't fat to begin with, what I would call average). Not really anything left to loose now, so whilst I hope to keep improving my cardio/ fitness, the bike is the next logical step it would seem.

Do people bother carrying spare tubes/pumps etc. when racing?

I didn't when racing CX, but the walk to the pits was guaranteed shorter then!

Not running tubeless for various reasons...

Depends on the length of the lap, usually a tube and CO2 to get me back to the car without a major walk...

I have a little “pocket pack” which is basically a road tube, co2 cartridge and thingy, tyre levers quick patches and a quick link strapped together.  It sits in my race bag and slides into my middle pocket for MTB, road or race - its just easy to always pick up and go.

I have lightweight Scott Race tube strapped onto my MTB seatpost mainly for Marathons and rides from home, I don’t both taking it off for XC TBH.

I've never carried anything when racing, if i punctured i'd walk back... it's race over at that stage anyway.

Actually after the faff involved in just getting the tyres to mount properly (and that's with tubes...) I'm not even confident I could properly repair a puncture trailside, took the rear tyre about half and hour to sloooooowly pop into position properly.

On the flipside if I ever did go tubeless at least I know the tyres seat tightly...

Got my first XC race of the year coming up next weekend. A charity, as many laps as you can in three hrs kind of thing. Looking forward to it but barely ridden my mtb since last september.. and having been focussed on cross haven't ridden 3hrs in a long time either. :Looking forward to it though and am considering it as a kick-start to my training

it’s race over at that stage anyway.

You see, I don't agree.

I lost 7 mins after snapping a chain on the start once after being held for the next group to go and then fixing it with a quick link,  Now, I could have thrown in the towel, sat back and watch the race with a coffee on a sunny day.  Yet, in a field of 40, I managed to get to 25th with a 7 minute loss and, I'm no superfast person either.

It can be very quick to get a cut tubeless tyre sealed an back up with Co2, or even by throwing a tube in - I guess it depends how much it matters of how many points even a minor placing means to you.

You see, I don’t agree.

I lost 7 mins after snapping a chain on the start once after being held for the next group to go and then fixing it with a quick link, Now, I could have thrown in the towel, sat back and watch the race with a coffee on a sunny day. Yet, in a field of 40, I managed to get to 25th with a 7 minute loss and, I’m no superfast person either.

Considering how few i actually overtake in a race, i should clarify then "It's all over for me"
Simple fact is, if i lost 7 mins in a race i'm last.... by a long way. The only places i'd gain is from DNFs.

I prob wouldn't bother with any spares for a short course MTB race either - don't think there's much value continuing if you've dropped way behind your racing peer group, as there's not typically anything to learn from just riding round the terrain. With cross I would always try to repair a mechanical or tyre problem as it's so skills based that just going round the course will always have something for you.

With cross I would always try to repair a mechanical or tyre problem as it’s so skills based that just going round the course will always have something for you.

Eh?   There's no skills in MTB is your inference.   I'm sorry but as I demonstrated above and depending on your evaluation of the importance of the race theres no reason to abandon.    Having travelled and paid for the privilege anyway plus also if you are actually interested in being fit for racing there's merit in pushing out the remainder of the race at race effort for trainings sake - or skills sake as you seem to imply unless I read that incorrectly...

I always carry a spare tube, gas, multi tool. Probably overkill. I did once podium after snapping chain on the start line though....

as there’s not typically anything to learn from just riding round the terrain

Yeah, not sure I agree there at all.

My crank fell off end of the last lap on Sunday, I keep a tool on my bike so put it back on, with the faff I lost about 4 mins, but there was no way I was going to just give up. Part of the fun was seeing how many places I could get back.

Eh? There’s no skills in MTB is your inference. I’m sorry but as I demonstrated above and depending on your evaluation of the importance of the race theres no reason to abandon. Having travelled and paid for the privilege anyway plus also if you are actually interested in being fit for racing there’s merit in pushing out the remainder of the race at race effort for trainings sake – or skills sake as you seem to imply unless I read that incorrectly…

Certainly true that a workout's a workout - you've driven there and got your kit on so I can see wanting to get a race effort come what may.

Didn't you post here about doing an event in the Peak, and having to stop as you were struggling with the terrain? How is that consistent with 'pushing out the remainder of the race at race effort for trainings sake - or skills sake'? I think rather it shows that racing is an emotional investment and that if you're out of the race it can sometimes be hard to re-engage with it.

I think thats a bit of a emotive and unpleasant comment Garry and there's no need for that.  I wasn't "crying" no.

I quit just over halfway yes, because I was physically tired and mentally exhausted for whatever reasons after 3.5hrs racing the Peaks - something not to be underestimated - and had spent the last 1/2hr making silly mistakes leading to more frustration.   Thats very different to giving up because of a flat.

I'm not trying to paint a picture that I'm some kind of n'er give up hero, just commenting on your content with regard to carrying spares fixing a flat in an XCO race.  YMMV, but I've merely re-iterated a relatively positive experience in not doing so.

Apologies, Kryton, I re-phrased it. All I mean is that for the type of MTB races I might do (local / regional) there's normally nothing there for me technically as far as the course goes, because MTBs are now so capable. The skills dimension is all in the racecraft, positioning your bike against the other people you're battling with. So if that's gone with a flat, I wouldn't be that motivated to continue [I know on national-type courses you can get very challenging stuff, so that would be it's own reward to tackle].

Will admit for the first time I didn't carry any spares down at Cannock last weekend, didn't see the point really as the lap is essentially a loop of the event center.

I always carry them when on Marathons, 12 /24hr races or training or normal riding as a bit of time can be made up and the loops are usually a bit bigger / more remote.

A charity, as many laps as you can in three hrs kind of thing

Ah the Spencer Sports event my mate is running, good luck.

It costs what, £25 to enter, x petrol/hours to get to race, favours to the family to actually be allowed to go, time spent ‘training’...if I puncture I’m ****in’ fixing it and finishing the race. Plus even if I come last, I’ve had a good workout. No way I’m wasting my day and going through the mental anguish of an avoidable dnf. 🙂

Ah the Spencer Sports event my mate is running, good luck.

Yeah thats the one. Should be fun. You not tmepted? guess a long drive.

Ree tools - agree with McVittees, what a waste of money if you puncture / break a chain in the first 200yards. I've always carried co2, tyre, multitool and quicklink. You'll have to fix it at some point after all!

When i race i go to race, riding round is irrelevant to me. Training, meh, i've done that. Its all about the race/results. If i puncture the race is over.

Yeah thats the one. Should be fun. You not tmepted? guess a long drive.

I am, just got to convince SWMBO

I started off with 'its for charity..'

Ok, am convinced about carrying basoc tools, I'm treating it as training also so no point giving up and walking.

What's the overtaking etiquette, similar to CX e.g. rider in front owns the line?

13thfm...

Yes, but a racer rider shouts “on the left/right” when the want to pass and politeness is encouraged.  The rider in front pulls to the side at the next available point.  A lot of riders forget this and don’t always stop to think that surprising the person in front on technical ground can result in a very bad situation, it’s something that annoys me a lot.

Racing for position is what it is,    Elbows out and hold the line  🙂

How technical are XC races? Mainly looking at SXC for myself, I've done GT7 and strathpuffer and am definitely a red route rider (though not the fastest and most confident) so just trying to gauge it to see if it would suit me. Thanks

Not terribly.... Blues really at most places i've raced, if that. Not down south anyway.

Not very - if you can handle reds at trail centres you’ll be fine. There are sometimes A & B lines but the A lines are nearly always utterly rideable. Having said that - even relatively simple tech takes on a new level when you’re blowing out your arse & you’ve someone on your tail. Also the higher up the scale you get on XC the more techie the races can get. Grassroots stuff will be pretty chilled but Nationals can have some quite intimidating stuff. Worry Gill flat out can be quite interesting..

No idea about SXC, from the races I've done it varies considerable from some of the most technical riding I've experianced to flat, smooth and fast. The good thing is that there are B-lines for the very technical bits and there is no shame in taking them (or so I tell myself 🙂 ) Sure you'd be fine if you wanted to give it a crack.

I did GT7 last year bigmandh and I reckon that would be a bit more technical than most XC races, so you're probably fine there. Of course you're going flat out on short course riding, so it's a bit different than just tackling stuff at your leisure.

The National level courses do have some baws-shrinking features, but I've not seen that sort of stuff in local / regional type races myself. Too wide a range of ability in the field to be throwing a savage drop-off, say, into a lap.

Did a few of the SXC races a long time ago and they were brutal! I was nowhere near race fit but just remember a lot of climbing at places like Aberfoyle and Glentress.

I noticed Beecraigs/Linlithgow is in the SXC calendar, have been pootling about there recently on the CX bike and now on the XC bike (same bike, different tyres...).

It's actually surprisingly technical if you want to go fast, lots of roots on corners/short rooty climbs etc. Certainly pays to know the lines for some of it if you want to keep any forward momentum.

Nothing scary technical though, although I've still to check out the 'black' optional lines...

Thoughts?

After finding myself ill at Hadliegh I feel I want to test my fitness in competition before the Builth Marathon in April.  FWIW I am nervous I will underperform at Builth as I'll be returning from the US 2 days before - Jetlag.  I could go and do the Henham round or Southern XC on 17th April - both are a 2hr round trip, Henham is pretty "flat" and non technical.

Should I?  Coach says "if I want to, as a B race", but £60 of race entry & fuel plus 4hrs on the road isn't appealing.

I've never ridden Southern XC, is the course good and more worthwhile than a flat Henham?   Henham does have the advantage of me knowing the completion and therefore getting a relative measure of performance.

Southern on the 17th April is Checkendon. Pan flat. Lots of tight hammering around singletrack in the woods linked up with a few straights. Utterly relentless course with nowhere to recover anywhere, but pretty fun tight racing. Great n' fast in the dry, can clag up in the wet, but not as bad as somewhere like Wasing.

I'll second Yak on Checkendon - pretty much spot on.

Looks like I'll get more info from Henham then, and less chance of spending Sunday evening on the M25...

Thanks

The British Cycling MTB Marathon Champs are once again the Manx 100 on the isle of man over the "short" 100km course. The Manx Marathon Champs will be on the 100 mile standard course. Both one single lap, 3250m of climbing on 100k and 15k feet of climbing on the 100 miler.

www.manx100.com for entry BAR the British Cycling champs - where you'd need to enter on the BC website.

Travel wise we have put together a package with Sally from iomevents to make things a tad easier. If none of these options fit, give her a call and Sally and her team can assist.

www.iomevents.com

Disclosure - I'm the organiser 🙂

Ta

Kryts, you can kip over at mine for Checkendon, i'm 15 mins drive from the course.

Only ridden checkendon as a gorrick but its a load of fun. Enough up and down to make it ard wok even if minimal elevation. The corkscrew bit is fun!

You should be over jetlag in two days - take sleeping tablets whilst you are in the US to make sure you remain rested.

And if you want to test your fitness, why not do a local time trial?  This way you are racing against yourself, not against others.  From the other thread(s), i don't understand the racing as training approach unless you can be really strict and focus on your own performance (HR at threshold for 1hr, NP at xxxW for the race) rather than what position you came.

Checkendon for Southern XC is 21st April? Thats round 2, Round 1 on 17 March is Matterley Basin (I'm doing the open class as my first XC race in years)

MSG on 17 March is Henham.

If you've never done a TT before, how do you know whether you are fit?
At least if you go to a race where you are up against the same people every round you can look at relative performance.

Oh, sorry. Must have misread the date. Matterley is properly hilly, big south downs hills. Nice singletrack in the woods too, some off camber, a drop, some fast descents, steep up and down. I have only been there in the dry, but I would expect mud tyres packed as spares would be a good idea as it's south downs.
Pack your climbing legs!

Your time on a TT will tell you whether you are fit.  But it's the regularity of going back to it monthly where you see an improvement (hopefully) that is most important.  TT is a consistent course, where as with XC racing you may be against different people each time, they may have ups and downs in fitness, or strengths/weaknesses in particular areas so you can't measure yourself consistently against other people.

Pack climbing legs for Matterley?  Hmm, anybody got a set?

Ah this changes things - climbing has been my training focus so Matterley gives me hills plus intensity - i can work to a given level on long climbs for training

Ill google where it is...

thanks for the offer Weeksy!

Ok I’m tempted. What’s parking like, would a rwd German car get stuck? 🙂

Flat hard-standing carpark.
Longish track to get to it, but it's not that muddy. Rwd car will be fine.

Great time at the soggy saddle event in llandysul yesterday. The guys had cut some lovely singeltrack which i found technically testing and some a-lines which looked nuts and I avaoided 🙂 Some bloody step climbs too which made my plans to use it as a z2 training ride a bit sticky (endined up walking one hill to keep my hr down).
Not many people attended whcih was a shame given the effort that had gone into the course. Very relaxed event though and exactly what I needed, lots of time on the bike and a technical spruce up. Would highly recommend looking out for other events being put on under te Spencer Sport name there.

bigmandh/Garry_Lager/13thfloormonk - SXC events are designed to have wide appeal, so absolutely get involved!

(disclosure - series organiser here!)

Seriously though, each round is designed to serve everyone's needs as best we can, whether that's curious-but-nervous newbies who fancy giving it a shot, developing youths aiming to make a mark at national level, trail centre shredders keen to see how fast they really are, right up to riders who regularly do well at world cup level. We just want everyone to have a great time!

Anything technically daunting has a B-line option - if you're comfortable riding red-graded trails in the UK then the A-lines should be generally be fine; as people have pointed out, the difficulty comes trying to maintain race pace when you're fatigued.

This year we're at two new venues - Beecraigs at Linlithgow and Kirkhill forest on the edge of Aberdeen. Brilliant places to ride your bike, and with the courses having design input from two of the best XC/CX riders in the country, we've high hopes for them.

We're a new organising team - the SXC is run by a volunteer crew on a two-year rotation basis, to keep things fresh and prevent anyone getting fed up with it all - and one thing we're doing this year is trying to keep the laps short, hopefully encouraging closer racing that's more of a spectacle. We're lucky enough to have series sponsorship support from Shimano, which has allowed us to reduce the cost of entry in most categories too - £28 or £25 for senior riders, depending which category you're in.

It all kicks off this Sunday at Cathkin Braes, using a variation of the European Champs course from last year that's designed to include as much old-school singletrack as we can fit into the lap, as well as a fast, swoopy descent to the line to finish things off.

Entry is open online until Wednesday night, no entry on the day. Got to be in it to win it!

Thanks for the efforts 2Tyred!

Am entered for Cathkin, and pretty committed to Beecraigs and Lochore, family duties allowing. Beecraigs has been my training ground so far, just trying to master the roots!

Quick question about categories:

I'm 36 this year, but have not raced before or accrued points, is Sport the appropriate category? I noticed by age I'm actually Master now! I don't want to sandbag if Sport is for interested newbies as I'm (slightly, I hope) quicker than that. Having said that I was never higher than mid-table in the Senior CX category...

13thfloormonk - Sport is your category! Until you're 40, you race in Sport until you've accrued enough points to have Expert or Elite on your licence. Taster is the newbie category.

There's a slight discrepancy between our categories and those recognised by BC at the national champs (same at BMBS rounds) - Masters is a British champs category but isn't a separate race category at either National or Scottish level. Age category will come into play for you at 40.

Beecraigs is going to be mint, really like how the course is looking for that one. Look forward to seeing you! I'll be the guy impersonating the worried headless chicken on race day.

I’ll be the guy impersonating the worried headless chicken on race day.

That'll be two of us then, except I'll have a number haphazardly pinned to my shoulder...

In the meantime if you feel like dropping any hints about the Beecraigs course then go ahead, I promise not to go and session the absolute bejeezus out of the difficult bits 😉

I’m 36 this year, but have not raced before or accrued points, is Sport the appropriate category? I noticed by age I’m actually Master now! I don’t want to sandbag if Sport is for interested newbies as I’m (slightly, I hope) quicker than that. Having said that I was never higher than mid-table in the Senior CX category…

Not in anyway meaning to put you down, more expectation management... plus it may be diffesnt in Scotland

I find the Sport cat in Welsh and national series to be very fast at the pointy end. What you have to remebmer is that as well has enthuisasts like us, you have people jsut out of junior who need to earn points to get to expert, or fast guys who could easily be expert bt who race a couple of times a year so who never get enough points to move up. Personally If I make mid-field in XC I'm happy!

Thanks Ferrals, good point!

Can't be any worse than having to race the Scottish National Champ every round in Seniors CX so I'm sure I'll be happy either way.

DrP is back in the game.... well... entered a few races at least!!

Will be at Matterly bowl on Sunday; not ridden the XC SS bike in anger for about months, but may as well start again somewhere.. hilly, drops, singletrack; sounds good!
Unfortunately, all the other weekends the Southern XC races are on are weekends I've got the kids, so will pass on those this year...

Also just entered the Big Dog (solo again) five minutes ago...

Be good to get back into the swing of things again..

DrP

One and only race entered this year: Battle on the Beach. Race is on the 7th April and on the 8th I booked in for an operation to fix my slipped disc. What could go wrong?

Where's the Big Dog entry?  I can only find 2018?

What's its like there - for 6h pairs and a man that likes comfy are we talking Scott Scales or Sparks?

http://www.xcracer.com/raceentry/chooserace.php?event_id=1437

But yeah.. Takes more hunting than it should!

Erm... The course is great.. Nice mix of singletrackworld, but pretty hilly course...
Re bikes.. Erm... Dunno!

Go on, enter, its a great race!

DrP

Looks like my racing is well & truly scuppered for the year. Not back on the bike till mid-June earliest..

Thanks Dr P... ...and bad luck Mrlebowski... 🙁

TBH I'm not feeling it... I've not put my entry in for the weekend and looking at the forecast and the constant rain, i don't think i will be.

2tyred, how does it work with all the different categories racing at the same time on a short lap with tight sections etc? Do they all get set off at the same time or staggered? Also is there allocated time for practice on the day before the race and what length is the sport Male race (as it seems to have been left off the race length times on the sxc website). Thanks

Is anybody entered in the Velo29 beach race this weekend? Bit of confusion over race type but it claims to be mtb which makes it my first race back in about 4 years!

https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/events/details/197691/Velo29-Beach-Race-XC-and-MTB

I've stuck myself in as a master which makes me feel old. I've got a good few years before I hit the Veterans though.

In for Big Dog pairs.

bigmandh - staggered start between categories. Gap depends on numbers and what the commissaire thinks, but usually 2 mins.

Course inspection (practice) is Saturday afternoon - chief comm needs to walk the course and give the green light. No first aid, so it's at-your-own-risk.

Sport male is the Senior Men U23 (that's cut from the BC handbook, not very clear eh!) so between an hour and a quarter and an hour and a half. There's a dark art to come up with the number of laps each category races for to make it fit those boundaries! Each category races for a set number of laps - there'll be a board at sign on with the numbers on the Sunday morning, but we post it up on the SXC Facebook page on the Saturday evening. I'd guess 5 laps for Sport Male but it all depends how fast the course is riding on Saturday.

You coming along? 🙂

Jonba I will be travelling down for this and intending to pack the cx as well as the MTB. This will be my first proper MTB race in a number of years. I will be in the Vet cat so it will be interesting to see how many come out for this. Working out tyre pressure is doing my head in as there is so little info out there for beach racing.

Might mince out for Hit the North on Sat, although not massively motivated I have to say. Not ridden the MTB in months, bad weather, and coming back from London late Fri may conspire against me. Hopefully feel a bit keener on the day.

leahnp

I'm running 2" tyres and have put some rigid fork on the mtb. I did think about the cx but don't think I'll bother. At only £10 this is a punt. No idea if the local hitters will turn out or what the course is. Very vague info...

Advice from seasoned CX racers who do occasionally ride sandy stuff was as fat as you can and file tread or slick. If it is all on the sand then you should be able to run really low pressures as it is normally only rocks/roots on a cx course that cause issues.

Well it's Hit the North for me on Saturday, I imagine it's going to a complete mud 'fest given the recent weather, yey!!

Are you on the MTB or CX Steve? I've not done it before - Would prefer the crosser if it was in anyway a close decision, but been recommended the MTB from a couple of old hands - apparently a descent or two that is hard to ride fast on the CX.

Haven't made my mind up, I rode it on my XC FS last time and was thankful as the field crossing by the viaduct was pretty dry and a bit rutted, one of the descents is just plain daft with a bog halfway down it that sucks you right in!

My CX has 40mm mud tyres on it and the MTB's have a mezcal on the back, which ain't the best in mud, so I'll see which one is in best state of repair tonight.