You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Eek. Sounds tough!
Well I know I’m focusing on Marathons but I’d hoped to be fitter than that. Raced MSG at Lee Valley today and although I got a great start going into the first bend from 30th on the grid in about 5th, I quickly faded and ended up 23rd.
Felt like massively hard work, and although my overall pace was up by 0.3km vs 2017 (21st), my HR was down by 7bpm average. Tired? Don’t know. I just felt I was suffering more than others. Bit disappointed TBH. The only difference was I decided to take the Spark rather than my HT which was a please to ride.
@padkinson awesome result fella. Sounds like you’ve learnt a lot from it. Good luck next weekend.
I raced at Swynnerton today for Midlands series round 1. Absolute carnage, total mudbath. I’ve never tried to ride through so much mud before, not even in a CX race. Not sure the race should have happened in all honesty, especially watching all the cars getting towed off the field in the end. Wouldn’t be surprised if people were loosing their bumpers to the mud monster to try and get out. Bit ridiculous really.
Or perhaps I’m sulking a bit because I DNF’d. Had a good first lap, well paced and feeling reasonably good. Second lap I lost my gears and ended up single speeding it in the smallest cog. It’s a hilly course so ended up pushing up most of the climbs before calling it a day at the end of lap 2 just as the rain started coming down again. Boooo
Nationals Round 2 at Dalby next weekend. Rumour has it that it’s actually pretty dry up there! YES!
We raced in the morning at the Midlands in vets so didn't get the rain but it was still very muddy. In comparison to r8jimbob88 I had a right laugh, yes there was a lot of mud and couldn't really 'race' parts of it but some of the course was great fun fast and flowing. Helps the mood of the day that my wife got 2nd in Vets !
However smacked my rear derailleur on a stump in a off piste overtake on the third lap, and then spent the next few minutes trying to remember how to reset di2 but apart from that not a missed shift in all that mud, lost the group I was with and then became a bit Billy on the last lap.
Legs were still a bit battered from doing the Scott Marathon last weekend and with Dalby this weekend hope can recover in time, might have to take the train rather than ride in to work. Typical as its going to be sunny...
Just looked at the results for the Midlands, the fastest Vet was faster than the first placed Elite !
Morning all, my lad is talking about going to Dalby at the weekend, \we've never been . What's the deal with Camping, is there any on site, or is it find a local camp site.
Sorry to ask but the website is a bit ..
Cheers
Paul
There's camping at the venue, but last year they were coming round asking for £5 to stay in a field with no drinking water supply! If I was going this year I'd probably tell them to sod off and camp in the car park.
My team mate Will Lewis won Expert Cat at Midlands yesterday. Not only that, he battered the Elites too so technically won that one as well! He finised over a minute ahead of the next rider. He's a very tallented rider with some serious w/kg going on.
Anyone else in for Southern XC at Checkendon on the 29th then ? Can't wait now, just want to get on with it and hit some fun woods 🙂
First round of the Welsh xc series at Pembrey for me next weekend. First xc race of the year for me. Though currently only 3 entered in sport - any avid points chasers would be well worth thinking about racing the Welsh series!
Pretty irritated at the moment though as I've not ridden my bike in two weeks due to work and illness and currently still ill. Seem to be on the mend so hoping will be able to ride by tues or weds. Anyone care to chip in on what sort of efforts to do this week once I am feeling better so I'm most race ready? Obviously no point in tapering as I've nothing to taper form. My current thoughts are to hope to do a couple of easy spins on tues and weds and then do a proper race style effort on Thurs to try and shock my system into rembering what hard work feels like before a rest day on friday and my standard hour of openers on sat.
Less than 1 week now for both me and my boy to get racing again.
Thought it was wise to get his Whyte tubeless, as he's out after me and i'm not sure how long after me, if he throws a puncture for example, i may not have time to repair it.
Tried with his current WTB's but they're wired and a loose fit on the rims, they were simply not going up no matter that i did. Bought him a Conti Race King tubeless, it went up OK. I don't think the rims are ideal for Tubeless, but i got there on the 3rd effort. Had to whip the valve core out and hit it hard with the Airshot. But it's up.
I've got a Geax Saguro arriving in the next couple of days to stick on the rear, so he'll be fully Tubeless for the weekend.
My Whyte T-130 has a new bottom Bracket after i found the driveside spacer was split somehow. I only fitted the BB recently but i'd been getting noises from the front when on pedalling. I tried pedals, crankset etc all swapping, but thought "it can't be the BB, i only recently replaced it".... Whether it's fully resolved the noises i don't know as not ridden in anger yet, only a quick test. But the spacer being split and dirt/grime would't have helped for sure. Apart from that, the T-130 is good to go and ready. Got a week of alternate days of riding, along with a Swimathon on Sat with my lad. So trying to rest the legs up a bit. Then go all out for my assault on the top 30 😀
I raced Nationals at Dalby this weekend. The weekend started as one of the worst possible and turned into one of the best!
I did one lap on Saturday practice and my Freehub bearings exploded... spent several hours and 80 miles driving around to try and find some replacements. The damaged bearings had damaged the Freehub body though and an internal shim had worn meaning that I could only finger tighten the hub endcaps otherwise the whole rear wheel seized up. The mechanic had the dremel out and all sorts trying to machine things into the right shape!
Spent the rest of Saturday sulking and a bad nights sleep followed (still sulking). Figured I could try and race on it and see how far I could get before it failed again, which was highly likely. I couldn’t back pedal for a start.
My friend messaged me Sunday morning (I was in a local Airbnb and he was camping on site) and said someone had a spare wheel I could borrow! Yes!!!! I got there to meet a very kind chap who lent me his “spare” Enve M50 with Chris’s king hub and XTR cassette! The race was on....
Had a bad start, couldn’t get clipped in and quickly fell way down the field and was one of the last into the singletrack which was far from ideal. I managed to pull back a number of places through out the race but most importantly I beat my number 1 nemesis by 20 seconds at the end! Think I rolled over he line in 19th Expert cat out of 33. I was hoping for a top half finish but that didn’t happen and I don’t give a damn. It was one of the most fun races I’ve ever done. Absolutely cracking day in the end.
Just need to sort this crappy Freehub out now.... might race Parkwood in Sheffield next weekend on my On One 45650b (it’d be rude not to really!) and hope to get my Scalpel back rolling before Glentress.
Nice one! Pretty lucky on the wheel! I love Dalby, such a great course, not wild on the rocky gully bit of worry gill but the rest of it is ace
Not XC racing as such, more flogging my guts out for a considerable amount of time; I'm off to Ten Under The Ben this weekend and I entering Solo so pretty much XCM+++
The training has gone pretty well, with my mileage to date well up on previous years and pretty much where I wanted it to be in preparation for my main event this year the WEMBO Euro 24hr Solo Champs in Slovakia this June.
I don't really know what to expect in Scotland as I've never ridden there, but on chatting to a few people and looking at the course from last year a lap of about 16km with around 300m of climbing. So a coupel fo km shorter than a lap of the red at Llandegla with a bit less climbing, I'm hoping to do a lap an hour, give or take, so if all goes well that'll be 10 laps.
Bit of an epic drive up there on Friday.
If you're going give me a shout.
Race day! Checkendon. Just bumping this donuts easier to find later on. Despite appearances, I think we're ready. He's Hn the sofa watching Fortnite videos, I'm watching the cycling from yesterday. Off to get kitted up shortly and load the car etc.
Pre race cake must be allowed!
Forgot to write anything about Dalby! Had a great race, coming into it with little training due to shoulder injury. Snapped a chain on lap 1 and burped a tyre on lap 3, meaning I wasn't really looking for a result, more to have fun and I did that.
Write up here:
http://paleoracing.co.uk/2018/04/23/race-report-national-xc-2-dalby-forest/
Well that's the day done up at Checkendon. THe bikes are both washed, cleaned and lubed and both of us are showered and changed and now relaxing.
The day started OK, we both had breakfast and got there at the right time, got our race numbers fitted and off we went for some testing. We had a bit of a disaster out testing as my lads bike threw a wobbly and he couldn't turn the cranks several times. Luckily it was only down to it being a mud-fest and his bike clogging up, i think around the chainguide area, it uses a Bionicon type C guide on the lower swingarm. Once that was all cleaned and sorted by John from Banjo Cycles, it was golden ! I couldn't sort myself as my race was about to start !
I'd met up with Tiger/Magnetodog from Singletrackworld forum and we'd chatted a bit and were both eager. I was slightly ahead of him on the line i think due to when i entered. But that was all i saw of him as within about 40s of the race start he'd gone past me and was off and away. We ended up in a bit of a bottleneck at the entry to the woods which held us up a bit, but not a lot you can do about that sometimes. The course was in the reverse layout from last year, with other bits added/removed. It was though a bit of a mud-fest due to the recent rains. Bit of a shame there.
It made bike handling REALLY hard and i was all over the place at times. On the bike, foot down, hanging round corners and taking some VERY slowly. Over the course of lap1 i think 4 people passed me, but i also passed 3 others, it was DAMN hard as you'd expect for an XC race, that's just how they are. I didn't have my HR monitor on, but HIGH is the answer to that. Over the line we had 2 in front and a bunch of 2-3 not too far behind. Slipping and sliding up the grass start finish straight into the woods.
Lap 2 i had a couple of decent battles, there were sections where the lads around me were quicker and sections where i'd blow them away... but then they'd be right back on my wheel 3-4 mins later. But all went OK, i stepped off the bike on a tricky muddy rooty bit and lost 10-15s on the guy ahead... I'd been closing on him a few times. But i then passed him on the long grassy section. Phew.
Onto lap 3 and the world all went horrifically pear shaped for me. Not sure if it was the fatigue, the effort, the mud or what, but i was like Bambi ! Skating about like i'd never ridden a bike beofre. I think i stepped off the bike 3-4 times and had 1 decent crash in the mud. Sadly the fella i was hanging with had pulled away now. Even sadder was the fact that the 2 guys behind had closed up. 1 big Geordie fella and a lightweight southern fella. The Geordie went past on the night grass section like i wasn't moving, big legs on him and he had some power...
Onto lap 4 and it was back into battle mode.. I'd closed on the fella in front and passed him.. but then he re-passed me ! Geordie fella came past again with power and i spent the next 5-10 mins on his wheel in the woods, soft pedalling and recovering, it's SO much easier sometimes to follow. But there's no passing places on this bit so i just hung on his wheel. The other guy was right on my wheel too. Over the fieldy section at the end was boggy mud, Geordie took the wrong line choice and both of us shot through the gap. Sadly for me, 3rd guy says "Passing on the right", so i let him have that. No point arguing, he soon proved he was quicker than me. Geordie fella was out of sight behind when in the woods, but the last wood sections seemed my weakest point.
I made a point of getting out of the saddle a few times exiting slow corners, picking up the speed.
Out of the woods for the final time, the guy in front was 50-70m ahead, i wasn't going to make that ground up... So i looked back to see where Geordie was, he was far enough, but that depends if you class 40m behind as 'enough'... I looked as i entered the last corner, it's a bit of hairpin so you can work out where the competition is.. He was fractionally closer, but not THAT close.... But still i got out of the saddle and powered up to the line for about 7,000,000th place 🙂
I have no idea what my placing was, or how many was in the field in honesty, but it was good fun in the woods and a cracking workout and pushing myself as hard as possible.
My boy was next up... His was a 20min race and 50+ riders in his Cat. He got a decent enough start, was going well... But i think based upon his reports, he was holding back a little 🙂 He certainly didn't look like it though. Me and Tiger/Magnetodog were able to see his live timings and we checked each lap.
He ended up with a 29th in his field 🙂 Which was good.
More than that though, he seemed to enjoy it, which is all we want really. 🙂
Whether he'll do the next once, i'm not so sure... Maybe 🙂 But he'll still be doing his long 25 miler for Cancer Research that's for sure.
What's next for me.... Dunno.... Recovery first 🙂 We'll then see what happens for the next plan 🙂
[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/962/26910524287_f84da0946b_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/962/26910524287_f84da0946b_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/GZZtjF ]2018-04-29_02-50-24[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
In the middle, orangey helmet, green bike.
Enjoyed my morning at Checkendon.
8th in the Open which I'm pleased with, it was a tough course with no respite being completely flat! Also the mud and wet grass just sucked the speed out of everything.
Lost the use of gears on the 2nd lap, can't think why.
Somewhere in there is a crank
[img] 
[/img]
and a rear mech.
[img] 
[/img]
Took ages to clean.
Fantastic riding fella, massively impressed!
I was up at The Nevis Range trails for Ten Under the Ben this weekend, went up on on Friday as it's a 6 hour drive.
Set up camp with 2 of my team mates and 2 other guys I ride with regularly, all of us in solo split between Senior and my class Veteran.
It was bloody freezing on Friday night, we're talking full length PJ's a hoodie and a woolly hat & socks in the tent!
Woke up to a lovely clear morning, standard levels of pre-race faff mainly centred around what to wear, it was bibs, SS jersey & base layer, arm & leg warmers.
At around 9:15 we lined up ready for the off, the first lap was led out by a pickup carrying a lad playing various Scottish standards on the bag pipes and a couple of enduro motorbikes, firstly along the road and off onto a gravel track heading straight towards Ben Nevis. The views were spectacular to say the least.
The pace was pretty controlled until the gravel track when as usual all hell breaks loose with pair and team riders, along with some of the usual "I'm awesomely fast crew" making their way to front and the soloists undergoing the standard natural selection process.
The first lap was also a bit shorter at about 15km missing out some of the techy features to allow the field to string out, so I rattled that off in 52 mins.
The race then settled down to a mixture of long fire road / gravel track climbs interspersed with tech single track climbs and descents, with one proper steep bottom gear climb.
The laps were around 17km each with just over 400m of climbing and in the nice spring weather all was going great, a report came in that I was sat in 6th place in Vets at the halfway mark, so I kept tapping out the laps and then at about 6pm the temperature dropped and the heavens opened. I was typically as far from the pits as possible so I got rather cold and wet, at the end of the lap I stopped, put on winter gloves and a jacket and set off knowing that it would be my 9th and final lap.
Given the conditions and the fact I was frozen to the bone and visibly shaking (even with the winter gear on), my last lap was 9 mins slower than the previous one. But it turns out that after 10 hours and 36 minutes, 153km and just shy of 4000m of climbing I'd ridden my way to 4th placed Vet and 14th overall in Solo, well chuffed is an understatement.
Fantastic! Congratulations!
Well done - to both Steve’s!
Wow, great effort Steve. I can't even imagine being on a bike for that long, let alone racing!
First xc race of the year for me at Pembrey for round 1 of the Welsh mtb series, fand the first time my hr has gone over 180 this year. Oof it was brutal. Pan flat, bone dry with lots of twisty singletrack meant no recovery and very fast racing - my average hr was 179 which is over my normal cx effort. Short laps meant even though we did 6 it was only 1hr 10ish for me. Had a good first 4 laps but I popped in the fifth and lost the person I'd been neck and neck with. I overdid the sighting laps and was tired before the start then didn't bother to warm up which didn't help matters but it was too sunny not too. 7th out of 11 in my cat which isn't great but I beat 2 of the 3 people I wanted to beat. Looking forward to the next one - will just have to train a bit more first!
Good work Ferrals.
Can anyone tell me about the conditions at Minley at the moment, I'm considering heading darn sarf for the Gorrick 100 next weekend, but to be honest I won't bother if it's anything like the photos from Checkenden up there.
different terrain on the Gorrick areas - sandy means it doesn't clog, so you can always ride......but if wet might eat brake pads and drivetrains.
Anyone else feel seriously flat the day after a race? Not just fatigue, I guess its the adrenaline and what other chemicals your body uses while racing being depleted plus the few days before a race you're looin forward to it, then you reset to the next one not being for a month.
My constant critical self-reflection doesnt help matters either [embarrrased smilie]
Anyone else feel seriously flat the day after a race? Not just fatigue, I guess its the adrenaline and what other chemicals your body uses while racing being depleted plus the few days before a race you’re looin forward to it, then you reset to the next one not being for a month.
Yes
My constant critical self-reflection
For this reason.
LOL i was going to post the exact same thing today but thought you'd abuse me on here.
I feel VERY much like that today. Self-reflection is again 100% then reason. But looking at the times of people ahead of me and thinking back on the race i can't really see where i could have picked up more than 1-2 places TOPS. I couldn't have worked and pushed any harder in truth, i was really giving it my all. Apart from the odd mistake that cost me say 45s over the race distance, i couldn't have placed any higher.
I feel i've trained well, worked hard... Apart from either losing more weight or totally transforming my ability... i think that position in the field is about all i can expect realistically. Possibly if i trained 'better' i'd pick up some places, but the back 1/3 of the bunch seems to be my hunting ground.
Anyone else feel seriously flat the day after a race?
I generally never get the chance as I'm either making up family time, travelling home or going for a ride with my eldest. Keeps things ticking over nicely.
Probably helped by the fact I don't do a lot of short races in the summer, one or two at best. Nearly everything is Marathon length or longer. Until the winter then it's 'cross and there's so much cleaning up to do (mine and the eldest kit & bikes) there's no time to reflect really.
Tired yes, but very happy 🙂 My previous best was 18th place so 8th yesterday was a bit of a shock and looking at my overall time I'd have done okay in the next Cat up. If I can only lose another stone of weight get my BMI out of the 'Overweight' category and get my FTP up a touch then I may be able to do similar again.
Sort of spurred me on to train a bit more seriously (I don't train at all at the moment, as in I have no plan) and maybe try harder with the weight loss...
(I may be a bit delusional, the pan flat and very draggy wet course may have flattered me a bit as I have plenty of power if its flat and gravity isn't working against us fat lads, 2/3rds of my overtakes were on open field sections where brute force was king )
I may be a bit delusional, the pan flat and very draggy wet course may have flattered me a bit as I have plenty of power and if its flat gravity isn’t working against us fat lads
You did really well mate. Simple as that. The course would suit you better than some i agree, but you still must have overtaken 15-20 riders on the course, so massively well done there.
I think you put yourself down on the weight side of things though (as do I) you're far from a bloater and finishing 8th deserves some pride 🙂
@Tiger, sounds like an excellent result to me!
Glad I'm not the only one feeling flat at the moment.
Reflection wise, I was 1m30s back from the person in front, I lost all that time in the last lap and a half i'd been leading him up till then, started cramping up which I never normally do. I did 18km of practise laps, half at race pace, and no structured warm up so I know if I'd taken things more seriously I'd have probably hung in there. Still it was a rare day free from family commitments and the singletrack was fun so at the time I couldn't see the point of resting to alter my nowhere near podium placing by a place or two.
EDIT: on the plus side, having got an xc race under my belt, my motivation to put in some harder trainign seems to have re-surfaced 🙂
See now, it’s Tigers type of post that gets to me - not to take away from his excellent result but...
Here I am knocking my socks off training for top 30 Marathons and settling top 20 Regionals and he’s over weight on 18 an 8th places with no training. It’s that kind of thing that makes me feel I don’t have the dna to progress and therefore, what’s the point?
Here I am knocking my socks off training for top 30 Marathons and settling top 20 Regionals and he’s over weight on 18 an 8th places with no training. It’s that kind of thing that makes me feel I don’t have the dna to progress and therefore, what’s the point?
Arguably his was in a lower Cat than you ?
When he says no training, it's no STRUCTURED training, the bloke trains as hard as the next man, he puts in many hours on both outdoor and Zwift at high intensity.
Good to see everyone out and racing at the weekend. I was at cub camp, but even if I wasn't i'm still far from being able to race. More time at the physio than on a bike right now.....rubbish!
Checkendon is a proper power monsters course imo. I always get hammered there but can do better at the hilly rounds. Kryton - you'd be the same I imagine. 8th with no training is pretty awesome though - nice one Tiger!
edit - just seen weeksy's post. Yeah a mate near me has been working hard on zwift and is now much quicker.
Hopefully i cheered you up Kryton with a 25th 🙂
what’s the point?
Do you enjoy it? If not, it's a question that's well worth considering.
I know I'm highly unlikely to win an event overall, I just don't have the training time and I doubt the right genetic mix; but I know I can get to within podium bothering positions, as this weekend at Ten Under (4th Vet) demonstrates and last year at Torq 12:12 (5th vet). After that I do think it's just down to genetics and time.
Here I am knocking my socks off training for top 30 Marathons and settling top 20 Regionals and he’s over weight on 18 an 8th places with no training. It’s that kind of thing that makes me feel I don’t have the dna to progress and therefore, what’s the point?
Did I mention I also have chronic asthma.. 🙂
I raced in the Open Cat which is beginners really, if I'd been in the Sport Cat I'd have placed 30th or something so I'm miles off the mark really but for me I'm pleased.
(should've raced in the Elite Cat though as I would have come 3rd 🙂 )
http://my3.raceresult.com/89355/results?lang=en#17_92F582
And yes, I use Zwift and I ride my bike a fair bit but as I spoke to Weeksy about at the start, I went because I enjoy it, I know I'll never win anything while racing I tend to push a bit harder and really enjoy it so it's a good workout as much as anything.
Do you enjoy it? If not, it’s a question that’s well worth considering.
This. You’re lucky enough to live in an area with large fields so I imagine there is close racing throughout the placings. Ask yourself if you want to watch what you eat and put the structured training in and battle for 20th (say 10-15th in a couple of years training) or just enjoy riding your bike and battle for 30th and have another cake (I write while eating a Chelsea bun).
We all have to work and have enough stress in our lives as it is, personally at the moment I’ve come to the conclusion I’d rather mess around in the woods rather than bash out intervals and stop worrying about whether another ice-cream will affect my watts per kg. The chat before and after a race is the same, the act of competing is the same, it’s just a non podium (thus basically irrelevant) number that’s changing.
This attitude may change before cx season but when i was training seriously a couple of years ago I found it mentally exhausting and not sustainable. I've probably only dropped two placings stopping strucutred stuff (we have small fields)
I'd have enjoyed it a LOT more if conditions were like last year at the same place. Last year was bone dry and fast.... yesterday was sloppy and slimey !
Overall though for me it's the same as Tiger... It's rare i get the chance to test myself outdoors, to push, push and push more, it's all to easy when you're out with mates or alone to just cruise the odd segment, cruise 10 mins here or there... Ease off a bit, but as we know, when you're racing, you may try to recover at times, but there's no cruising going on. That in itself is very enjoyable.
Agree Weeksy, it focusses the attention all right! Also I'm not comfrotable riding race pace outside of races unless on oficial mtb trails (hence man made to some extent). On natural trails there is too much chance to come around a corner into a group of walkers or horses so races give the oppurtunity to go full blast on natural trails without that concern
On natural trails there is too much chance to come around a corner into a group of walkers or horses so races give the oppurtunity to go full blast on natural trails without that concern
At my speed i could send them an email and they'll still have enough time to get out of the way 🙂
When he says no training, it’s no STRUCTURED training, the bloke trains as hard as the next man, he puts in many hours on both outdoor and Zwift at high intensity.
Ah, a ringer then 😉
Yes I do enjoy it, and the training also, although less so just now when I nearly left my elevenses on the floor. I'm a bit dispirited at the moment, And I've alluded to before, I'm at the end of 5 months coaching and although there are small signs of being stronger in places, both a deviation from XC specific training and a variation in course structures & conditions in Marathons haven't allowed me to see if I've improved measurably, which is a little hard mentally. If I follow the same pattern for 2019, I'll have to wait until then to see if I've improved.
Even the 15s, 30s, 1m, 2m, 3m 2m, 1m, 30s, 15s session I've just done was 20% below par across the board on power. Jetlag from my recent trip,? Maybe I suppose.
20% is a LOT ....without wanting to dampen your spirits even more... that's a MASSIVE chunk down
I did do 90k/4hrs of zone 2 as well yesterday, that could be a factor.
Anyway, some more Z2 Wednesday and Thursday and I'm racing Sunday, MSG at Phoenix bike park.
I've a choice on Saturday of a prescribed pre-race on the turbo, or a 10k Time Trial, not sure which yet 🙂
lol you think ?
If you enjoy the training side then crack on.
I'd be speaking to my coach (if I had one) about measuring performance and concerns about drops in power, not an internet message board!
I was a bit worried that I wouldn't enjoy this season as much as last season. I was fortunate enough to be at the pointy end of the Sport category and just missed out on a podium at the nationals with a 4th. I was a bit gutted to have missed out on a lovely British Cycling trophy knowing that I'd be mincing in the mid pack (at best) of Expert category should I end up there this year, which somehow I have done!
I've trained my socks off since October last year and I'm found myself smack bang in the middle of the results and I couldn't be happier. Turns out I'm really not bothered if i'm in the top 10% or the bottom 10% so long as I have fun. My last race at Dalby was the most fun race I think I've ever had.
I've got a few rivals that I race regularly, I track my progress against where I finish against them. It's also good to review strava segments on courses that I've raced in previous years to see if I am actually going faster....
I got lapped in my last race towards the end of the last lap by Grant Fergusson. I tried to hold his wheel for as long as possible.... That was a rude awakening!
I’d be speaking to my coach (if I had one) about measuring performance and concerns about drops in power, not an internet message board!
I am. He says I'm stronger and fitter and is encouraging an FTP test in June after BeMC, perhaps demonstrated by a 48th place vs 60th place Vet in the Builth Marathon. I also took a wrong turn which if I eliminate the time of that (I used strava to carefully calculate it) would have put me 30th. Oh and I broke the top of two Boa's when I fell of halfway also, so shoe was flapping a bit.
Personally I think the Builth result and the drop in XC-ability plus the above power drop in the "sharp" bits means I've turned into a Diesel a bit more. Which I guess for BeMC and Marathons is about right...
I got lapped in my last race towards the end of the last lap by Grant Fergusson. I tried to hold his wheel for as long as possible…. That was a rude awakening!
To be fair he's pretty handy, even if he does ride a slightly funky looking bike.
What’s BeMC ?
He says I’m stronger and fitter
What is he basing that on? Clearly it's sinesomet you don't see, so what's he extrapolated to draw that conclusion?
What is he basing that on?
Lower HR & higher power output during 4h efforts, increased power & endurance over 3,8 & 20 min efforts.
By coincidence he's just called me. I forgot to tell him I'd walked 10k a day in Vancouver last week, so that, jet lag, together with yesterdays 80k and he says probably my neuromuscular memory of short hard efforts being a bit lacking as I focused on endurance efforts over the last 6 weeks all contributed to a fatigue based output today.
Going forward MSG Sunday will be my last bit of intensity before stuffing my face with Carbs pre-BeMC the following week. He's suggest riding a bit of high cadence over the next few workouts after some rest to get my legs firing again. He reckons I'm fit enough not only to finish the 3 days, but with appropriate pacing days 1& 2 to go on an push for a good result on day 3. I'll let you know how that turns out 😀
Full write ups please!
Sure, when I've stopped shaking and my legs work again...
http://forums.mtbr.com/xc-racing-training/good-read-1075414.html
Interesting read here and really brings home to me why i'll never be more than 25/40. The difference in dedication, planning, effort etc that people put in really seems massive to me. All the SST training, the Z2, Z3, Z whatever and the perseverence to do what is needed at the right times.
For me now, it's going to be back to Zwift racing along with just enjoying the riding. Due to locations of events and holidays, i won't be doing either round 2 or round 3 of the Southern XC series, but i may jump back in for the final round.
This:
Zone 1: 50%
Zone 2: 23%
Zone 3: 12%
Zone 4: 7%
Zone 5: 3.5%
Zone 6: 3.5%
Is very close to my profile, although I've a more Z5 and less Z1 which is because I have less time than she does. But weeksy yes, this is what we discussed in the other thread. I'm finding coached training very hard, and you do have ups & downs mentally due to the expectation and accountability.
There's a really good Tri article I posted a link to, which explains that you need to train very hard, and rest very easy. Essentially if you are completing the last few mins/secs of a series of Z4/5/6 intervals you haven't gone hard enough, but equally you need to rest very hard. Note my Vancouver walks in my post above during which my coaches expectation was of a "rest" week after a hard 4 week block - now validated by Mrs K's Apple Watch as >10k per day walking for 4 days; I got my wrist slapped about that last night on the basis of not being rested to expectation.
P.S. despite underperforming to power yesterday, the 15s and 30s intervals had me on the verge of puking. Thats where you need to be.
P.S. despite underperforming to power yesterday, the 15s and 30s intervals had me on the verge of puking. Thats where you need to be.
I'm passed them days personally. Sure i work hard in shortish Zwift races, but there's hard and there's 'about to die', i don't have the ability/desire to hit the about to die any more/currently.
Out of interest though, are your Z's power or HR ?
Not everyone has a PM so access to your actual power zones for many of us out there is very limited. Sure i can get the info if i've Zwifted from the Snap, but outdoors, i have no idea what either my HR is or my power. I've got a Garmin watch and a HR strap. But i rarely use either outdoors. For some reason my HR strap doesn't register in Strava despite it being a Garmin, maybe because it's Ant+ and my phone doesn't see Ant+ ?
Yep that article that weeksy posted is interesting. I know that I (and I'm sure many other recreational racers) make my easy rides not easy enough which means I'm not fresh enough to my intervals with enough intensity. But then spinning around just doesnt seem productive at all and its quite boring.
This mornings ride was a classic example, bad nights sleep meant I wasnt feeling fresh enough to do some planned intervals especially with sundays race in my legs so i figured i'd ride for an hour at an easy pace ubt ending up with my hr regularly getting to 170 which is over threshold for me - i find it hard not too going up hills. So now I'm tired but with no real feeling of doing beneficail training.
I'd be interested to know how other structure their training in a post race week. Although I'm not really doing any strucutred training, I like to semi-stucture my rides so I don't overtrian and still get some beneficial addaptations. Typically I do a hard ride on tues, thurs and sat with an easy ride on wds, rest mon and fri and a longer ride on sun at a moderate pace. These days I just cant recover from a race quick enough to do a hard ride on tues. I'm thinking the best way will be an easy ride on tues to flush out the legs, keep the weds ride easy as well but put in a few short intervals and then back to normal on thurs. I'm not sure if this, with a taper the week before will lead to too much time not pushing it and increase the CTL load drop that Rollingdonut was mentioning furter up the thread.
edit. also to do full on efforts i think a turbo is best, but I'm not focussed enough for turboing for the moment
edit 2. the article also confirms my belief that xco is an ideal base for cx, which is nice because the belief was based solely on it being what i wanted to do (race xc but 'specialise' in cx)
But then spinning around just doesnt seem productive at all and its quite boring.
Have a google of Mitochrondria production and the difference in how the body is fuelled Z2 & below vs Z3 and above - it all came together for me when I learned that.
@Weeksy - I use power for training, but don't have power on my MTB. What I've learned in training is what my HR range is while I'm sitting in a 20min 95% FTP effort (for example). Say that's roughly 160BPM, I then sit on 160 BPM during a longer climb knowing I'm churning out at roughly 95%. I then know 145BPM is middle Z3, and 130 BPM is top Z2, so can use that information.
The Builth Marathon was the first event I did where I properly targeted riding within Zones, and sometimes it felt a little too easy, but then again I was able to manage the power on the last climb the same as the first. And I improved my time to leader by 18%.
Had a bit of a read, but need to read more i think. One thing I am unclear about is how long a z2 ride needs to be to be beneficial. I normally have max 2.5hrs at my disposal on the weekend and 1.5hrs in the week, so the 4hr z2 rides are not viable.
Had a bit of a read, but need to read more i think. One thing I am unclear about is how long a z2 ride needs to be to be beneficial. I normally have max 2.5hrs at my disposal on the weekend and 1.5hrs in the week, so the 4hr z2 rides are not viable.
That's where it all moves from being fun into "WTF" for me. Lets say for example i'm out on a Saturday ride on the MTB, then i have to sit at a certain pace, a certain cadence to stay in a particular Z, be that a power related one or a HR related one. So what happens when you get to a short sharp incline, your HR spikes, your power spikes and suddenly it's all become a waste of time ? How's that right then? surely not. If it has to be Z2, how much of it has to be Z2 ? 80% ? 99% ... What happens if you let the power/hr drop on a particular flat/minor downhill ? It all seems incredibly tough to fit into a particular ride to me.
Agreed to certain extent weeksy, I think its why a lot of serious folk do a lot of on road training where its easier to control. I'm happ to go for cruisy sight seeing rides but like you say keeping within the zone offroad is basically impossible.
That Annika Langvad blog up there is brilliant, and pretty much lines up with what I've found the last season. Incidentally, Annika is one of my favourite athletes at the moment, just really strong without being 'showy', and doing a full time dental degree alongside it. Bloody awesome.
The past 6 months or so I've definitely been approaching things from a marathon perspective, and have gotten stronger in just about everything except CX. I've not actually increased the average hours on the bike that much, but gotten a lot more consistent load in than previous years, which seems to have been the main difference. A friend of mine who's been training with power for years now said the only reliable correlating metric to race performance he's found is consistency, not training stress, fitness, form, whatever.
It's easy to forget that XCO is a firmly aerobic sport. I've often found myself caught up in worrying about the sprint off the line or jostling for position, when the proper meat of the race is flogging yourself along and having the aerobic capacity to maintain it.
Also, usually to my dismay, it turns out high level marathon races take off just as quickly as XCO, they just go on a bit longer!
To put a bit of evidence to it, I'm not quite hitting the same peak wattages for >5 minute efforts as 2 years ago (when I was fully XCO focused), but the repeatability of what I can do has jumped up massively.
E.g. somewhere like Hopton with a hefty 5 minute climb in it, in my junior days I would have shot off and done 450w up it the first lap, then crawled along for the rest of the race, losing far many more places than I ever gained on the first climb. These days I might average 400w up it each lap, probably getting dropped by the skinny chaps, but having a much better race overall.
Kryton: have you got any measures of how repeatable your peak power is, or what kind of numbers you're hitting towards the end of a race or hard ride? I suspect that like me, you might have gained in consistent repeatability what you've lost in the peaks.
I'm trying to collect some ideas and studies about this sort of thing together for a blog post sometime. although I'd best finish all this sodding coursework first.
Weeksy- I’ve always sensed you have an innate aversion to structure. Not sure if something has happened in your past that makes you want to make everything ‘fun’ to avoid falling out of love with it??
But basically, you are being too dogmatic.
Training isn’t hard or complicated. It’s a case of applying stress then letting your body fix you stronger.
Too much stress (tons of Zwift races 🤣)- you don’t improve
Too much rest - you don’t improve
I’d take what people on 800hrs a year do with a pinch of salt when applying it to your own riding.
On half that time- you don’t have the luxury of long aerobic rides. But there are ways to cheat. Short hard Vo2 max intervals are a great substitute.
No appetite for ‘intervals’? Call them Hill repeats and do them out on the trails on a fun steep climb. When you get back and look on Strava- you’ll see that spread of intensity listed above. The cruise to the Hill and the ten times you rolled back down to the bottom will add up surprisingly quickly and you’ll see that only the few minutes of powering up the hill were actually tough. Polarised training doesn’t have to mean noodling around aimlessly.
Another good cheat is to spend the first hour of say a two hour weekend ride going full gas. This could be trails ridden as a race sim. Then, once you are totally depleted and knackered- don’t eat any carbs, get out on to the lanes and ride back for an hour in Z2. It replicates a lot of the adaptions you may get in hour four of a long Z2 ride.
Specificity becomes more important the less time you have. You need to get the race like intensity in- especially the closer you get to your race.
None of these things are complicated or require any more forethought than a week in advance when you pick a Zwift race or two that catch your fancy.
Went hard today? Go easy tomorrow.
Fav Zwift race tomorrow? Go easy today.
6 days in a row? Have a day off.
3 tough weeks? Make next week all easy spins.
Structured training doesn’t have to be anything more taxing than doing what you already do in a more advantageous order 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Also- you lost weight really quick. That’s a tough gig for maintaining performance. So be proud of what you achieved there and give yourself time to increase your power again.
Bit of an update on my own results too.
I missed Dalby (shame as it seemed they actually used the techy bits this time) for the European marathon champs in Eastern Italy. It was a particularly savage course, 104km with some 3000m climbing, most of which was in one sodding great mountain in the middle.
Unfortunately I really seemed to suffer in the heat, got a bit heatstroke-y I think. It was only 26 degrees, but really strong sun, and climbing very steep gradients without any shade. I dropped well down the rankings, before properly popping and having to sit down. Even in the shade and stationary I was uncontrollably panting like some fat labrador for a good half an hour, really quite scary, and not anything I've experienced before. The 20km back to the car after I pulled out was all downhilll or flat, but still took me 2 odd hours. 288w NP for the 3 hours of racing I managed.
The weekend just gone I came over all weird and did a road race: the BUCS university champs on the Bulmer course. I knew I was a but ill, but after one lap (of 7) I realised it was worse than I thought, so I limped back to the car (again). 8 hour round trip for 45 minutes of racing!
Another good cheat is to spend the first hour of say a two hour weekend ride going full gas. This could be trails ridden as a race sim. Then, once you are totally depleted and knackered- don’t eat any carbs, get out on to the lanes and ride back for an hour in Z2. It replicates a lot of the adaptions you may get in hour four of a long Z2 ride.
Thats really useful @crosshair, thanks!
[edit: didnt see post] @padkinson - sounds quite nasty re. the heat. Unlucky. I guess its soemthing your body needs to get used to. I've only once raced when it was properly hot and I hated every minute.
It’s easy to forget that XCO is a firmly aerobic sport.
You say that but on flatter races i'm not so sure. Looking at my HR trace from sunday (Pembrey) i was pretty much over threshold the entire race (for reference my max HR is somewhere around 189 (based on cx race data). Obviously there will have been micro recoveries that HR doesnt pick up. There also looks to be a gradual decline in speed though so I guess if I had a power meter it might tell a differnet story
Sounds brutal @padkinson I think XCM is where I'll be heading once I've had my fill of XCO.
How much do you weigh if you don't mind me asking? W/kg? Just wondering what kind of figures it takes to make Elite.
Dalby was great fun, much more fun than last year that's for sure. Although they didn't open the drop at the begining of that rocky gully. Medusas drop was techy and rooty fun.
@ferrals Nicked it from TR 🤣
Many of their Vo2 max sets have 30mins Z2 tacked on the end for the same reason and it’s some of the hardest minutes I’ll do all week.
(Baird +6 is the one I was thinking of)
How much do you weigh if you don’t mind me asking? W/kg? Just wondering what kind of figures it takes to make Elite.
About 74-75kg at the moment. I'm hoping to lose a kilo or two by July. I think I'm definitely at the lower end of the elite field as far as w/kg goes, I try to make up for it by going round corners quickly, which is probably why I crash so much!
EDIT: w/kg wise:
4.86 FTP
5.12 20 min
6.01 5 min
8.76 1 min
Not sure if something has happened in your past that makes you want to make everything ‘fun’ to avoid falling out of love with it??
Very observant. Motorbike racing happened
I loved racing motorbikes. But found the pressure and intensity of faster faster, better better, lap after lap, session after session destroyed my love of the sport. Along with a bit of the post race blues we discussed earlier this week and a failure to acomplish goals and targets of racing the isle of man.
Once upon a time 3-4 years ago i ended up like that almost with MTB riding until Crust said to me, oi, have a word with yourself. I got his point and had a word. I don't want to get sucked into that place again, head down, power power, head down, Strava Strava. It's not why I love MTB., So it's something I want to keep fun.
Thanks to all on this thread. Ive been reading it off and on for a few weeks with great interest. Just wanted to shout out to Kryton as I will also be at the BeMC next week (weather looking fantastic - holding thumbs). Very nervous about the climbing stats as I just have not really trained for those kind of repeatable efforts (a whole other thread there i'm sure). Regardless, will be mincing around as best I can on a Niner RKT likely sporting some morvelo kit - do say hi as you fly past. Everything is relative.
Buzzard, will look out for you but there's going to be a fair few riders in our open - I'm Black/white/Red Scott Spark Red kit black shorts, Orange Helmet.
We've moved on a bit but for Weeksy & Ferrals;
At Z2 Mitochondria translates carbs to energy a rate in excess of x 30. Above Z2 Mitochondria reverts to Glycogen in cells and translates carbs to energy at x 2 - much less efficient quicker carb burn. You have max 90 mins of that assuming your Glycogen tank was full up to start with. So in essence you can ride all day in Z2, but 90 mins max above.
Buy building up more Mitochondria by riding around in Z2, you shift Z2 - and therefore all other zones upward. Imagine then, you could ride around at 300w but remain in Z2 - you'd be pretty fast and you still have all your Glycogen available for harder efforts e.g. Pro peloton riders. Or, look at it the other way round than in an XCO race when you've burned all your available Glycogen at about 90mins from the starting sprint the body defers to Z2 aka you by default get slower. Again, if your Z2 is higher than the next man, you'll be faster than him at the end of that race.
At least, thats roughly how it works, hope that helps in some way.
To Weeksy's point - yes hit an incline and you can't stay in Z2 but it doesn't ruin what went before. I rode for 4hrs Sunday of which 2:45 was in Z2 the rest scattered all over my zones albeit I slowed to minimal effort on the lowest gears on the climbs. On a turbo of course you get more economy - I'd have only had to be on it for 2:45, but would have died of boredom.
Thanks Kryton - that's the first time I've understood why you'd train in z2 for xco despite reading all sorts of blogs! I'd not thought of it about shifting all zones upwards I'd just thought "I'm always around threshold or higher when racing so improving z2 is pointless"
You always hear of Z2 as "Base riding" in old money especially. Think like a pyramid, the wider the baser, the larger /taller the pyramid.
I'm told to perform Z2 (well, all my zones) at the top end without crossing over to help push it up quicker as your putting max stress on that zone but staying within it. I can be accurate because I was lactic blood tested.
I'm almost with you Ferrals, I've done so much Z2 I can't see the improvements and it feels like a waste, but I'm assured by someone far more knowledgable than me!
I know CH used this logic a lot lately, because in simple terms, if you can up your Z2 HR from say 220w to 240w then you're quicker all round, or riding at a lower HR, either way, it's easier.
It's worked for him massively