[Closed] that old chesnut... Fox vs Rockshox.....

Had good 36s and bad, had some cheap OE 36's with open bath damping and they were shit.

RS forks have always been good to me.

I'd be happy with either, but I don't fancy the RS shock, prone to failure aren't they?

Fox 36 for the fork, Monarch Debonair for the shock would be my preferred choice. But given your choice I would go for the 36's with the dbinline.

Fox service intervals have got a lot more realistic. They now state every 200 hours or annually for oil change/service.

I have DBInline and Fox 36 on my Spitfire, seems a good combination to me. No real problems but a word of warning you may need to invest some time sorting out the best settings on both. Cane Creek do a good phone app to help with the tweaking, you can use the same approach for the fork. If you are not into twiddling the knobs you might be better off elsewhere.

Have a CC inline on my Enduro, abolute POS. Has been back under warranty and it's now doing what it did shortly before failing last time. Fox 36's rock, just for the HSC/LSC version, make my Pikes look very old generation. Fox now more sensible regarding service intervals.

Probably go for an x2 to replace the CC.

FWIW I really like the Debonair on my Strive. Seems to work very well and nice levels of adjustment. Ditto the Pike. I'm happy with RS, but mainly because I know how to service them quickly. I have never used recent 36s or the DBinline so I have no real basis for comparison.

There are quite a few other differences between models aren't there? I can't quite work out which models you're considering.

1x vs 2x chainset
Alu vs CF
'Race' (long) geometry vs standard*
Fox vs RS
Sram vs Shimano

* When I bought my Strive, the M Race frame was exactly the same geometry as the L non-Race. This may, or may not, still be the case.

yup... race vs "normal"... have been to the store in Koblenz and had myself measured up. i'm either a M normal or S race, basically both the same frame.

prefer the idea of a normal as the race comes with a single chain ring up front and i'm not sure [s]my legs are [/s] the hills i ride are suited to that set up. normal also comes with Shimano brakes and chainset. never been a fan of Sram/Avid.

I've just swapped a 29er RCT3 Pike for a 36 Factory. Literally because I need a longer steerer and I am a tart. Early days yet...

I've never really been convinced by the Pike, it's good but not [i]great [/i]imo, it's never lived up to my old coil Lyriks which I loved... And it's taken quite a lot of fannying about to get it up to "good but not great". Felt the same about the 26er RCT3s I had. Part of it might be that I'm right on the soft end of the damping range, I'd run less HSC if I could- thought about going with lighter oil but I'm 10 stone, it's not like I'm a child- I should be in the main range.

That sounds more critical than it should- they're light, stiff, strong, they work well and reliably, really a very good product, and I was more than happy with them. I just don't love em and criticism comes easier than praise when I think about them for that reason. Servicing is kind of a pain in the bum, just that bit more complex than previous Rockshox. Oh and the maxle snapped off for no good reason, but replacing it with a stealth fixed that. And I had to fill them with spacers to get them to work how I like, I don't really feel like I'm on the extremes of anything so that's weird. I'd be amazed if anyone who can actually ride runs these with no spacers.

First impressions- literally 2 short rides, so really not enough- of the 36 are that the external controls are a little more powerful and intuitive and the damping range feels more suited to my weight. I hate the axle, the pinchbolts are a faff and getting the axle in and out is niggly. But even half set-up hey have a feeling of suppleness that the Pikes have never quite had- it's easy to make a fork responsive by making it divey and boingy but that taught-but-ready feeling isn't so easy and they seem to have it. Oh and they are purty, despite a slightly weird looking arch

They just seem straight away more of what I want from a fork, basically. Not so much quality necessarily, just default setup and spec. They'll be stiffer I'm sure, I've not noticed anything- I'm not really that bothered once you get past "stiff enough". They remind me of those Lyriks like the Pikes don't.

(oh, the 15mm option is heavier than the 20mm, what a load of bollocks 15mm is and always will be, **** off Fox.)

I'm pretty impressed so far, and I was nervous tbh- I've been a rockshox guy mostly, I've never had a Fox fork I liked before. My 32s were absolute mince compared to my old Revelations

^^ What he said ^^

Had 150 and 160mm Pikes on my SB66c, great until you do long fast choppy descents/braking bumps where my hands felt like they had been on the rigid bike instead.

Put Fox 36s on it and cornering was the first improvement I noticed, probably due to the extra stiffness. They felt harsher at low speeds and in the top of the travel but vastly better on the fast descents that I didn't like on the Pikes.

Have just gone back to 140mm Pikes on the T130 and having the same experience again.

I put some 160 PIke's on my SB66C and didn't see what all the fuss was about. And then they got the clunking and went back for warranty and I put my old Fox 34's back on and didn't see what all the fuss was about.

New 36's I expect to be an all round improvement.

My 2016 Pikes were night and day difference over my 2014 Fox 34s, they felt wooden and I could never really get them right.
Not that the Pikes are perfect but, for me, they're decent enough.

Fox 36's should really compared to new lyriks, not pikes shouldn't they?

I have 2016 lyrik rct3 170mm,and they're very good, substantially better than the pike I had previously.

Not tried the new 36, but I'm sure it's also very good, and possibly more tunable than the rct3 damper.

For the op,I'd go for the Fox setup, the 36 is going to be superior to the pike.

I'd get the one with the Monarch and Pike, sell the Pike on eBay and buy a 170mm Lyrik.

Sticking an offset bushing in at the same time will lower the BB again and slacken the head angle (it's a touch steep as standard).

I've had a good long ride on my pal's Strive set up like this and I was very impressed. One of the best bikes I've ridden.

My 2016 Pikes were night and day difference over my 2014 Fox 34s, they felt wooden and I could never really get them right.

Conversely I really liked my '14 34s which I sold over the summer and replaced with X Fusions, which have been a pleasant surprise.

Not owned Rock Shox for a while, but the two sets of Pikes I rode on Orange demos last year really put me off. The set I rode on an Aeris this year were better, but I'm still not personally convinced, despite all the rave media reviews. I realise these are all on demo bikes so realistically ridden a lot with little love, but after all the hype surrounding the Pike I was still expecting better.

I long ago resolved not to get another fox fork on the basis of expensive replacement parts and having to deal with Chris Porter, so I've used RS forks ever since the original pike put them back on the map. Can't comment on fox therefore.

Like Northwind, I've been underwhelmed by the pike. It's a perfectly good fork, but it doesn't live up to the hyperbole in the media.

Unlike Northwind, I'm a good 4st heavier, and I do notice the stiffness over my set of revs, but the damping is really only slightly better than the RCT3 motion control in the rev.

Like North wind I've also found I've had to tweak it alot to get it feeling OK. I have to run the air spring lower than I would expect for my weight, and compensate with lots of tokens to manage dive. It's like the compression damper is a bit over enthusiastic, even when it's fully open.

TBH I think I prefer the action of the revs a bit. There's not very much in it at all.

PS. The new Lyrik is a really great fork. Definitely a cut above the Pike in stiffness & performance.

To be fair I do [i]notice[/i] stiffness, I just don't really care about it once I'm past "stiff enough", I just tune it out after a few minutes except in extremes. But I know other folks care

Total hearsay this, I've never got further into it but [i]apparently[/i] the bulk of the difference between the pike and lyrik performance (other'n stiffness) is the bigger negative airspring, and [i]apparently [/i]you can tweak that in the Pike by editing the bottom out rubber, since it sits in the negative chamber. I don't know any of this to be true or wise btw but maybe it'll set someone off on a voyage of discovery 😆 I was just going to coil mine.

I'd have the Fox bike. If it were a choice between 34's and Pike I may think differently although I tend to prefer Fox over Rockshox quality wise.

The thing I noticed most with the 36s (2016) over pikes (2015) is at high speed, like when you're charging into a section at 40kmh+ and the pikes would feel overwhelmed and crap themselves a bit whereas the 36s just stay composed and allow you to carry on charging with confidence. Or another example is if you ride a berm with breaking bumps fast the pike would get caught up more and feel skittish. There's no doubt the pikes are good forks it's just they're not as composed in extreme situations like the 36s. I use the FIT4 version as prefer the quick flick a switch between fully open and trail to having the extra hsc of the FIT HSC/LSC model.

I've not had lyrics so can't make a comparison between those two.

Total hearsay this, I've never got further into it but apparently the bulk of the difference between the pike and lyrik performance (other'n stiffness) is the bigger negative airspring, and apparently you can tweak that in the Pike by editing the bottom out rubber, since it sits in the negative chamber. I don't know any of this to be true or wise btw but maybe it'll set someone off on a voyage of discovery I was just going to coil mine.

Might have a play with a longer air shaft and use spacers to adjust the travel, will need to check where the balance port sits as to how much extra you can have and also check the clearance between the tokens and piston.

North wind, I bought this for my 36
http://mavericksuspension.com/product/q36r-quick-release/

Works well, expensive for what it is mind...

Oh and imho 36 > pike, I've had both on the same bike...

For me it would be more about the rear shock than the forks , which are both going to be more than good enough for most riders . The Cane Creek rear shock is notoriously unreliable whereas the Monarch is well regarded , reliable and also easier to set up than the CC offering .

RS have never let me down despite less than diligent servicing.

In contrast I had several iterations of fox forks form 2004 onwards, one set were reliable but I didn't like the "plush" feel (5 psi difference between blowing through 75% of the travel on small stones to almost rigid)

Another set would have cost more to service and repair than to buy equivalent RS forks!

Latest bike (hei hei trail DL) has 2016 34's 29'ers on and OMG they are a revelation - good small bump compliance and great on bigger hits right out of box, just set the sag as per guidance. External adjustments work well but rarely touch them. Service intervals more realistic so we shall see.

Now the rear shock - float performance is more fiddly - set the sag as per guidance and was blowing through travel. gone 30 psi over recommended and cranked rebound damping up has improved it but lost some small bump which I actually like coming from hardtail background.

Fox 36's should really compared to new lyriks, not pikes shouldn't they?

Not if you go off weight. 36's are very, very light for the stiffness.

Some of the comments on the Pike ring true to all but my most recent experience.

Harshness over braking bumps. Great until high speed. I recognise these... And then I managed to tune them out. I now have a much greater respect for the Pike and what it can do; that's a 65kmh over other people's brake bumps level of respect. A little bit counter intuitive to find the sweet spot, maybe. Might explain some of the marmite responses you always get on this topic.

For the OP, I'd avoid the CCDB-IL on principle for just one reason. With the bulky forging I've assumed it isn't possible to do an effective air can service without special tools. Happy to be disabused if this isn't the case.

The options for the OP are Pike or 36 Fox and Monarch or Cane Creek rear shock . For that reason there's no point saying that the Fox 36 should be compared to the Lyric or saying how great their Fox rear shock is .

Not owned Rock Shox for a while, but the two sets of Pikes I rode on Orange demos last year really put me off. The set I rode on an Aeris this year were better, but I'm still not personally convinced, despite all the rave media reviews. I realise these are all on demo bikes so realistically ridden a lot with little love, but after all the hype surrounding the Pike I was still expecting better.

I'm not really a fan of RS forks - there's something about the damping that I just don't like. My Boxxers with a Charger damper felt OK, but I really struggled with them at Revo over braking bumps.

My Fox forks have always been good in terms of reliability and the new FIT4 damper seems pretty good on the forks that I've ridden.

mindmap3 - Member

I'm not really a fan of RS forks - there's something about the damping that I just don't like. My Boxxers with a Charger damper felt OK, but I really struggled with them at Revo over braking bumps.

I know this isn't a widely held view but... IMO, mission control was pretty awesome. I've not had much chance to ride charger boxxers but I'd choose my old mico Teams over 'em any day based on that limited experience. Pretty sure they're reverse compatible, maybe you could find a mico that someone's "upgraded" from, or swap?

(this might well be a "better riders get more benefit from Charger" or something. But I'd have an R2C2 Mico in every fork if I could. It even [i]looked[/i] awesome, when you took it out.)

Northwind - Member

Total hearsay this, I've never got further into it but apparently the bulk of the difference between the pike and lyrik performance (other'n stiffness) is the bigger negative airspring, and apparently you can tweak that in the Pike by editing the bottom out rubber, since it sits in the negative chamber. I don't know any of this to be true or wise btw but maybe it'll set someone off on a voyage of discovery I was just going to coil mine.

That's similar to the mod Mojo do to the Fox 36 for the Geometron - I did it myself to mine. Hacking the bumper out of my brand new fork with a stanley knife/snips was a nervy experience

peaslaker - Member
Some of the comments on the Pike ring true to all but my most recent experience.

Harshness over braking bumps. Great until high speed. I recognise these... And then I managed to tune them out. I now have a much greater respect for the Pike and what it can do; that's a 65kmh over other people's brake bumps level of respect.

Slightly OT but please do enlighten us how you did it.

peaslaker - Member
Some of the comments on the Pike ring true to all but my most recent experience.
Harshness over braking bumps. Great until high speed. I recognise these... And then I managed to tune them out. I now have a much greater respect for the Pike and what it can do; that's a 65kmh over other people's brake bumps level of respect.

That's some pretty good tuning to enable you to ride a section at 65kmh where other people are creating braking bumps.