[Closed] Team Sky announce team. Wiggins is watching from the side lines.

Like most people I like someone for a variety of reasons.
NATIONALITY
Brad is technically British and proud to be British, Froome seems proudto be Kenyan

ABILITY
They are both good riders, with different strengths, watching the competition would have been nice

PERSONALITY
Brad has it, some may not like it but I do. Froome is bland or a whinger.

BATTLE/GRIT
OK Brad may not be great here, but he works hard and rides to his best, he doesn't seem shy to work. Froome I've not seen work, it sort of looks easy when he does well.

FAMILIARITY and FANATICISM
Brad has got to the nations heart and is known by many that aren't big cycling fans. He has won a lot of Olympic medals at several different Olympics. Froome isn't liked because he is a threat to brad 'the prodigal son' Wiggins.

Yeah, but there was that amazing moment when Wiggo in yellow led Cav out on the Champs-Élysées. How mental was that?

jambalaya - Member
@whatnobeer Wiggins is a multi-medalled Olympian going back to 2000 and was the first ever British TdF winner (proving we could do it) and [b]won the London home Olympics road race the same year.[/b]

Saywhatnow?

Did he do this while wearing an Alexandre Vinokourov suit?

BadlyWiredDog, that moment was possibly my favourite ever tour moment, brilliant, brilliant stuff. It's either that or the day in 2011 when Andy Schlek went early on an attack of Galibier and Cuddles basically dragged the rest of the lead group, including a fast fading Voekler, up behind him. That was a hell of a days racing.

To be honest it could have been anyone's blood in Vino so who knows who won 😀

Is Yates riding for Orica?

Nope. Big season already and he's only young so they've parked him for now.

Other Brits are Millar, Cav and possibly Dowsett. Don't think there's anyone else in contention.

Saywhatnow?

Did he do this while wearing an Alexandre Vinokourov suit?

Presume he meant the Olympic TT as opposed to the road race.
Not really sure why it's relevant though?

What is there to understand? He's dull to watch on a a bike.

It's not fun or exciting.

😆

THEOLYMPIC TT WAS ONE OF THE MOST EXCITING BITS OF CYCLING SPORT I'VE EVER SEEN. Not to mention hos trck victories. Hardly 'dull'.

DanW - Member
To be honest it could have been anyone's blood in Vino so who knows who won

*like

THEOLYMPIC TT WAS ONE OF THE MOST EXCITING BITS OF CYCLING SPORT I'VE EVER SEEN. Not to mention hos trck victories. Hardly 'dull'.

We're talking about Le Tour. Track racing can be exciting, sure, and TT'ing can be exciting too if you have interest and the splits are close.

But, the TdF is a 3 week long event decided in the mountains and the final TT. Wiggins is not an exciting rider to watch in the grand tours. He can be as exciting as he likes on the track, but he'll still be dull to watch on a mountain stage.

[quote=whatnobeer ]The TdF has a lot more to it than TT'ing...

Indeed - team members are expected to spend time on the front of the peleton keeping the pace high and/or pulling back breaks. Being abe to climb well at a steady pace to shelter your team leader also helps. I wonder what sort of rider would be good at that?

To suggest that Brad doesn't merit a place in the team on the basis of what he can do physically as a team member does make you look a bit silly. I doubt any of the 8 selected to ride alongside Froome is actually stronger than BW on the flat let alone all of them, and there's a good chance he's also the second best climber on the Sky team. You do realise that he was ill at the TdS?

Jens winning a stage would totally make the Tour for me this year. Won't be the same when he retires at the end of the year. What a legend, and proof/inspiration that us old farts can mash pedals with the youngsters just fine 😀 .

Not for this parcours.

Oh purlease. Personality clashes aside, he would be an excellent domestique.

Won the points jersey.

Did he do this while wearing an Alexandre Vinokourov suit?

Only Vinokourov is cool enough to wear Vinokourov outfits.

[img] [/img]

Sky aren't Team Bradley, so I don't get all the anguish. Froome undoubtedly lacks charisma off the bike, but IMO showed plenty of panache on it at the Dauphine recently - I think the perception of him as a dull rider is in no small part to do with the Sky juggernaut he sits behind for 90% of each stage. That's their best chance of helping him win, so fair enough, but it doesn't make for the most compulsive viewing.

I can't see the TdF being any less of a spectacle for Wiggins not being on the start sheet, there's far more to it than that (and I don't mind watching him ride).

I doubt any of the 8 selected to ride alongside Froome is actually stronger than BW on the flat let alone all of them, and there's a good chance he's also the second best climber on the Sky team.

Indeed - team members are expected to spend time on the front of the peleton keeping the pace high and/or pulling back breaks. Being abe to climb well at a steady pace to shelter your team leader also helps. I wonder what sort of rider would be good at that?

One without an ego the size of Mr Wiggins?

Personality clashes aside, he would be an excellent domestique.

Yep, and the first part of that sentence completely nullifies the second.

He wouldn't play ball and ride selflessly for Froome, he's long said that. The 2012 Tour GC was very boring, fantastic Wiggins won it, but he did so in the most uninspiring clinical fashion.

why are so many people more concerned with whether they LIKE someone, rather than whether the rider is a good cyclist?

Some sort of secret crushie bromance thing going on?

Sky juggernaut

Sky are a juggernaut in terms of financial backing but have been pretty average as a team since their inception. They have been lucky to have 2 very strong leaders at the TDF (and pre-TDF races) for the past few years but haven't had much going for them as a team. Rogers and Gee saved some embarrassing moments and retained some control in previous years but key team members have faltered at key points. Porte isn't on form despite supposedly being the #2 and Movistar and Saxo Tinkoff have particulalry strong teams this year. If they get themselves organised Froome will come under a lot of pressure

Yep, and the first part of that sentence completely nullifies the second.

He wouldn't play ball and ride selflessly for Froome, he's long said that. The 2012 Tour GC was very boring, fantastic Wiggins won it, but he did so in the most uninspiring clinical fashion.

Except that he said he would ride for Froome. Personality clashes are for the manager to sort out.

As DanW notes, Porte is in poor form, and he's supposed to be the number 2. If it were me, I'd want some insurance.

there's a good chance he's also the second best climber on the Sky team

I reckon Porte would probably have him at the moment, but it's hard to say. He's not in the team for a reason, or possibly two : 1. He's not on form and 2. He's a moody and there are questions of how well he'll perform when playing 2nd fiddle.

It's amazing the number of people here who seem to know more about how to run Sky and pick a grand tour squad than DB. Maybe one of the posters above is actually John Bruyneel and we don't know it.

I think you can safely say that if Wiggins gets on his bike and rides the Yorkshire stages 1 hr before the Peleton, he would get more cheers than the main race.

Its a bit sad really.

[quote=njee20 ]He wouldn't play ball and ride selflessly for Froome, he's long said that.

When and where? Linky?

I think Froome seems a good sort / honest / no BS sort of a guy, and a great rider. I wish him well. However, I really rate / like watching Contador. Should be a great TDF.

Only mistake Sky made IMHO is leaving me out of the team, I mean how hard can it be ? its only a bike ride (and on tarmac at that) 😉

Plus being boring is greatly underrated 🙂

[quote=whatnobeer ]1. He's not on form

Which is why GT slaughtered him in the TT champs - oh hang on...

Which is why GT slaughtered him in the TT champs - oh hang on...

Which has what to do with the Tour? The tour isnt a 3 week long TT, no matter how much Wiggins might wish it was.

I'm intrigued as to the thought that Wiggo is the 2nd best climber at Sky. Porte would be ahead of him, as would Lopez, Neive and Cataldo I would have thought.

Sigh, not another Froome / Wiggo debate. This race has always been a whole greater then the sum of its parts. I'm off to watch Le Tour and cheer on some riders not a team. Am more interested in the podium girl selection than Sky's.

Only Vinokourov is cool enough to wear Vinokourov outfits.

If only the Vino on his shirt was also wearing a vino shirt.

aracer - Member
and there's a good chance he's also the second best climber on the Sky team

In the tour squad I think Nieve, Kiryienka and Lopez (and Porte as already mentioned) are better. In the Sky team as a whole Henao and Cataldo too.

[i]The tour isnt a 3 week long TT, no matter how much Wiggins might wish it was.

[/i]

Me like 🙂

FWIW, and that's diddly squat, I prefer Froome to Wiggo.

Wiggo my have the attitude, and the honour of being the first Brit (/Belgian/Aussie) to win the Tour, but hanging on in the mountaind and winning in the TTs is frankly a boring way to do it.

Watching Froome making the others eat dust on Ventoux on the other hand was brilliant. And going without the support of his team against multiple attacks when they fell apart in the Pyrenees (can you see Wiggo doing that? I think not).

Froom would have beaten Wiggo in 2012 if he'd have been allowed...

+1 😀

Personally can't stand Froome's riding style it's blooming awful, up there with Paul Radcliffe's running style for super ugly. Far rather watch Millar or Wiggo, that's how to ride a bike, super smooth.

Yeah, but you don't get points for Artistic Impression, it's about crossing the line first.

I don't see anyone saying to Paula Radcliffe "you know that marathon record you have that is head and shoulders above anyone else's best efforts? Well, it doesn't account becuase your head wobbles when you run"

Surprised this hasn't come up yet

[url= http://chrisfroomelookingatstems.tumblr.com/ ]Chris Froome looking at stems[/url]

Dragon, Youd rather see wiggo sit and diesel at a single speed for the full length of the climb than watch someone launch repeated attacks? Fair enough.

More attacks in last 6 kms than last 6 years of Wiggo's career...

and ever the hardy inspiring team leader

[img] [/img]

[quote=whatnobeer ]Which has what to do with the Tour?

It has to do with whether or not he's on form, which was the comment from you I was refuting - presumably you reckon he can take a chunk out of GT whilst he's not on form? His ability to handle a 3 week stage race when he's in good TT form is based on past evidence.

[quote=Lifer ]In the tour squad I think Nieve, Kiryienka and Lopez (and Porte as already mentioned) are better. In the Sky team as a whole Henao and Cataldo too.

So why have none of them been at the sharp end in a GT?

I like balance some riders due to TTing ability don't need to attack, others have to. Yes attacking is exciting, but still style wise Froome is awful, plenty of others attack but do so with more style.

Sure you don't get wins based on style, but efficient riders often win so they aren't completely disconnected.

Agree that Wiggo is prat at times though, recent abandon in Switzerland being a prime example.

So why have none of them been at the sharp end in a GT?

Winning a GT and being a good (super) domestique are different skills.

It has to do with whether or not he's on form, which was the comment from you I was refuting - presumably you reckon he can take a chunk out of GT whilst he's not on form? His ability to handle a 3 week stage race when he's in good TT form is based on past evidence.

You can't judge form in the mountains on TT ability ffs.

Looking at that team and Wiggins recent performances I can't see that he'd add much before you take into account his poor relationship with froome. It's great that Wiggins won the tour but it was a very specific tour with lots of TT and relatively easy mountains in a year when some big players weren't there. froome on the other hand won a fairly stacked race last year pretty convincingly, if you were Db, where would you go?

And Brads ability on the flat is kind of a moot point as OPQS, Cannondale and Giant Shimano will be controlling anything that has a sprint at the end.

[quote=dragon ]Agree that Wiggo is prat at times though, recent abandon in Switzerland being a prime example.

Following team instructions. What a prat.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wiggins-abandons-the-tour-de-suisse-due-to-injury

Froome looks like a praying mantis pushing a shopping trolley whilst trying to pin a mobile phone between shoulder and ear, but that stage was edge of the seat stuff to watch live. Agree Wiggins on-the-bike style is supreme. I'm just not a big fan of the man, as you may have gathered.

[quote=whatnobeer ]Winning a GT and being a good (super) domestique are different skills.

The question was climbing ability. Wiggo proved that in a way none of the others mentioned have (not only in 2012, which wasn't his first TdF podium - Ventoux in 2010?)

You can't judge form in the mountains on TT ability ffs.

Because climbing involves totally different physiology to a TT, and form in one doesn't tend to correlate with form in the other? 🙄

Well, yeah. From the Giro this year:

TT

1 Rigoberto Uran Uran (Col) Omega Pharma - Quick-Step Cycling Team 0:57:34
2 Diego Ulissi (Ita) Lampre-Merida 0:01:17
3 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team 0:01:34
4 Rafal Majka (Pol) Tinkoff-Saxo 0:01:39
5 Gianluca Brambilla (Ita) Omega Pharma - Quick-Step Cycling Team 0:01:53
6 Wout Poels (Ned) Omega Pharma - Quick-Step Cycling Team 0:02:00
7 Wilco Kelderman (Ned) Belkin Pro Cycling Team 0:02:03
8 Thomas De Gendt (Bel) Omega Pharma - Quick-Step Cycling Team 0:02:07
9 Domenico Pozzovivo (Ita) AG2R La Mondiale 0:02:09
10 Patrick Gretsch (Ger) AG2R La Mondiale 0:02:12

Mountain TT

1 Nairo Alexander Quintana Rojas (Col) Movistar Team 1:05:37
2 Fabio Aru (Ita) Astana Pro Team 0:00:17
3 Rigoberto Uran Uran (Col) Omega Pharma - Quick-Step Cycling Team 0:01:26
4 Pierre Rolland (Fra) Team Europcar 0:01:57
5 Domenico Pozzovivo (Ita) AG2R La Mondiale 0:02:24
6 Franco Pellizotti (Ita) Androni Giocattoli 0:03:22
7 Rafal Majka (Pol) Tinkoff-Saxo 0:03:28
8 Sebastian Henao Gomez (Col) Team Sky 0:03:48
9 Tim Wellens (Bel) Lotto Belisol 0:04:00
10 Dario Cataldo (Ita) Team Sky 0:04:10

While I can understand that people are disappointed that Wiggo won't be riding, I don't understand why people are so anti-Froome.

I'm down with this. I like Froome. And after reading his book and his story of how he got to where he is, I like him even more. I'm glad that Wiggins won the TdF, and I'm glad Froome got his chance straight after. All in all, everything worked out pretty well, I'd say.

Team Sky though... They just highlight everything that is wrong with humanity.

Wiggo is on form at the moment. People saying he isn't clearly haven't been taking notice. In Switzerland he was ill and crashed.

Froome is poor tactically. I find him frustrating to watch. I think Valverde and Contador will have the measure of him this year.

I'm hoping Nibali will find some good form soon. With so many riders on form this year it should be a good one. Froome will be made to suffer for bad tactics.

FWIW I simply cant understand why Wiggins is considered a poor climber. He may not be able to put in explosive attacks but he can ride with what are considered to be the best climbers in the world and loose little to no time. You cannot win tours or be a GT contender without being able to climb.

Or Wiggins blamed his poor performance and lack of effort on being ill, after the event and after hawking himself around rival broadcaster BBC saying how great his numbers were. He's done nothing since 2012 to justify his record salary. Going for the commonwealth games, seriously? Sky must be thrilled.

Or are you considering him beating espoirs in a second rate race in the US as a sign of world grand tour form?

I dont care whether froome wins or loses, I want to see exciting racing.

Maybe one of the posters above is actually John Bruyneel and we don't know it.

Haha, didn't Riis say that Sky should pick Wiggins for their team? I'm sure he'd love that, be great for Saxo Tinkoff.

He's done nothing since 2012 to justify his record salary. Going for the commonwealth games, seriously? Sky must be thrilled.

He won the Tour of California earlier this year. It might not hit the headlines here, but thats important for Sky as its high profile in the USA and they have US sponsors.

feel sorry for Bradley, but the new boy has to come through. I don't think it's right for anyone to bash them at all.
Wiggins seems to only be remembered for his 2012 win, some say Froome could have won that, I'm not so sure. It was a team effort and I personally think that Froomes 'mini attacks' were highly disrespectful to the man he was assisting. I've always thought that's where the bad vibe started.
And you have to remember that Bradley won the Paris - Nice, Tour of Romandie and the Dauphiné in the run up to his 2012 Tour win which is pretty classy I think. Not to mention his 2009 Tour third place, no one helped him there.
Anyway very sad, and as you can tell I'm a Wiggins fan. Shame he isn't going to be there even for a different team....such a waste.

Or are you considering him beating espoirs in a second rate race in the US as a sign of world grand tour form?

Tour of California may have been second rate in the past but not now. A good field this year and a good win by Wiggins. Plus his performance earlier in the season in the Paris-Roubaix.

I dont care whether froome wins or loses, I want to see exciting racing.

Agreed.

It was a team effort and I personally think that Froomes 'mini attacks' were highly disrespectful to the man he was assisting.

Interestingly, in his book, he says he only signed with Team Sky on the basis that he'd ride for GC. And he went into the 2012 Tour believing that's what he was there to do (as a joint venture, with Bradley). It only became obvious to him that this wasn't the case once it started.

speckledbob, I like the way Wiggins was looking this year, he seemed a little heavier and more aggressive, pluckier.

Although I get the personality and commitment questions, I still wonder why he's really not preferred for form over Pate and Xandio ?? I know they are quality riders but...

I don't think they have anything to worry about the cobbled stages though, Geraint and Bernie Eisel are quality riders who know how to ride in belgium and it's a fallacy that you have to physically resemble Cancellara to ride pave, Peter van Petegem was about 5foot9 and weighed about 68kilos but that didn't stop him being a classics monster

Geraint and Bernie Eisel are quality riders who know how to ride in belgium

Well geraint certainly inspected the cobbles and roads of Northern France and Belgium really closely, in every race, several times, and I'm sure they left a lasting impression!

Wiggins was beaten by Geraint Thomas in P-R, and beat a pair of up and coming kids (Dennis 24, Craddock 22) to the top step of the Cali podium (a 2.HC cat race). It might have been sound business for Fox/Newscorp, with 21st Century Fox being a US based co sponsor, but I can't believe it would have fit into Sky Procycling's grand plan. Since winning the one grand tour built for him he has floundered for goals and performances that are the match for his GT winner status.

[quote=Lifer ]Well, yeah. From the Giro this year:

Ah, so Quintana wasn't on form for the flat TT, because if he had been he'd have won it?

Or maybe you just don't understand the point.

[quote=crashtestmonkey ]Or Wiggins blamed his poor performance and lack of effort on being ill

So you don't believe the statements from his team?

after hawking himself around rival broadcaster BBC

Now you're suggesting that because he's on a team sponsored by a broadcaster that he shouldn't do interviews with our national broadcaster? 😯

It is quite clear you really don't like him at all, but gosh you are stooping low.

aracer - Member
Ah, so Quintana wasn't on form for the flat TT, because if he had been he'd have won it?

Or maybe you just don't understand the point.

Being good at flat TT's doesn't equate to being good at climbing.

Hence the difference in standings between flat and mountain TTs.

Hence the lack of TTers in the Mountain Classifications.

Contador for the win this year

Elite sport is a complex beast.... There are reasons for every decision.

[i]Interestingly, in his book, he says he only signed with Team Sky on the basis that he'd ride for GC. And he went into the 2012 Tour believing that's what he was there to do (as a joint venture, with Bradley). It only became obvious to him that this wasn't the case once it started. [/i]

Really? Even my mum knew that Brad was there to try for the win in 2012.

Having said that, Wiggins' book is one of two cycling autobiographies that I failed to finish as they were so boring. The other being Kimmage's

[quote=Lifer ]Being good at flat TT's doesn't equate to being good at climbing.

Oh really? 🙄

But do you not think that when Quintana is on form to win a mountain TT he might also do a PB on a flat TT? Or is he just as likely to do a PB in a flat TT when he's not on good form in the mountains?

Never said he shouldn't do interviews with the Beeb, but far more respected commentators than me (Richard Moore to name one) observed that he did the full rounds of the BBC, not in Team/corporate kit, both of which seemed deliberate choices given the subject matter. Why no interview on Sky?

No I don't swallow everything that comes out of a press office, do you? Wiggins told the Beeb he was on top form, so either he became ill the second he landed in Switzerland or one of those claims isn't true.

But its really clear youre a fanboy who won't hear a bad word against him.

At least Wiggo has his own set of balls,

Froome can only use him when his girlfriend lets him...

Let's see what will happen ... great if he wins it but he has to work on the hearts and minds bit, doesn't he ...

2 points, the opposite in many ways from each other.
1. every post above is bollocks as really only B W + DB et al really know and the above is all prejudiced supposition.
2. Just to keep in the usually STW frame on mind I was praying for wiggins to loose to Froome in 2012. why. Because Wiggins age means that he wasn't going to be a multiple winner whereas Froome could be. It was irrelevant which Brit won as long as 1 did so better the long term. After all 2 wins by one Brit is better than 2 by 2. He could do more but its harder now. I do wonder in the usual totally uniformed and moronic way (see above) if Wiggins shows enough commitment. He jacked the Nationals today. Alright he got the TT but plenty of others did both. Looking ahead to the commonwealth I reckon. Well that's going to do Sky bugger all good. Track at Rio I 16? Yeah , that show commitment to his wage payers.
Hmm. Anyway the point is that he doesn't fit and that matters more than emotional balls about having him at a British tour. Would he win a stage in Yorkshire? Nope so what would be so good. Now Cavendish missing would be a shame as he might come though. shame no British champs jersey on show there though.

[quote=crashtestmonkey ]No I don't swallow everything that comes out of a press office, do you?

What possible reason would the Sky team have to say he was ill if he wasn't? Of course the statement about Wiggins being ill actually came from the directeur sportif Dan Frost, not the press office, and the statement about the team pulling him out of the race came from the team doctor, but don't let facts like that get in the way of your stories.

Wiggins told the Beeb he was on top form, so either he became ill the second he landed in Switzerland or one of those claims isn't true.

He spoke to Beeb on 6th June (maybe before, that was the date it was published). Tour of Switzerland started on 14th June. How long is he allowed to become ill for you to accept it? 1 week clearly isn't enough - 2 weeks, or do you need a month?

But its really clear youre a fanboy who won't hear a bad word against him.

I'm a fan, but quite happy to accept rational points against him (some negative comments I'm not disputing). It's only the irrational stuff from the haterz like you I have a problem with.

One less Brit to cheer at the Tdf then. Millar pulled from the squad after a poor nationals performance according to his Twitter.

Millar also appears to have been withdrawn from the Garmin squad despite initially being selected...

Dowsett out of Movistar too.

Not many left now.
Come on Geraint! (although he wont be allowed to do much probably)

It'll be a shame not to see Pete Kennaugh ride too as he's been going well and clearly been working hard in the past year or two

Aracer, flipside. I'm not a hater, I think he's supremely talented and all the more interesting for being flawed. I dislike blind fanaticism and uncritical thinking. I come across as a hater, you come across as a fanboi, that's the joy of the internet as reality and our actual standpoints are far more nuanced!

Still don't think he should be in tour team, and am more disappointed and surprised about Millar being binned. As someone else tweeted there's a great squad to be built out of the cast offs.

Well... only Gee, Cav and Froome representing Britain in the TDF now. This TDF is a home Tour more than ever before and there seems to be great interest from the general British public... but just 3 Brits... there are the same number starting from Luxembourg 😳

More Bretons than Britons, as inner ring tweeted.

The Welcome to Yorkshire people must be fuming. They've paid out all these millions and there are very few riders for the locals to cheer on. It's at odds with the massive sucess that British cycling is been heralded as in the media since the Olympics and Wiggo's win. Puts a bit of a dampener on it.

I'm sure it will still be rammed and hailed as a sucess but people like Wiggins and Millar would have brought even more people in and created a buzz. There are still tickets for the team presentation with only 3 days to go.

And it's forecast to rain.

Orica left to anounce. A PR win in the making if they select a Yates.

Put all the British team sky riders in a squad and watch the cycling public go mental. Would they win - don't know, but they'd be in with a shout and it would get more publicity than they will now.

better hope Cav's bronchitis clears up or it will be an even more depressing show 🙁

i thought its was "bronchitis"

It's a specific type of bronchitis that stops you racing an unsuitably hilly course when outnumbered by Sky riders, but allows you to ride for 6 hours in Tuscany according to your own Twitter feed.

But we've already established I'm too cynical 😉

[quote=crashtestmonkey ]But we've already established I'm too cynical

Well having started from the last message and not read previous ones, I did assume you were talking about Wiggo after the first line 😉

[quote=crashtestmonkey ]Still don't think he should be in tour team, and am more disappointed and surprised about Millar being binned.

Probably equally disappointed here. Not keeping up with these things all that well, does that mean Millar has probably ridden his last TdF? Oh and of course I disagree with you about Wiggo, but accept there are reasons for him not making the team (I still think it's both a strategic and marketing mistake leaving him out).

[quote=DanW ]Well... only Gee, Cav and Froome representing Britain in the TDF now... just [s]3[/s] 2 Brits...

😈

Cav is Manx. Not part of Britain technically.

And then there was one...