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As others have said I find a lot of the discussion about the non-doping advances in the sport to be quite reassuring
hmmm, it's all a bit like Chris Carmichael and Lance's high cadence for me. I'm resigned to "it", whatever that is
hmmm, it’s all a bit like Chris Carmichael and Lance’s high cadence for me.
If it helps at all, Vingegaard and Evenepoel both beat Pantani's time up there as well.
I'd echo earlier thoughts about hoping that a KoM from over a quarter of a century ago could be bettered nowadays. The approach to training, nutrition and recovery is light-years ahead of the 90s, and then there's the actual bikes:
https://www.bikeradar.com/features/retro-pro-bike-marco-pantanis-1998-bianchi-mega-pro-xl
Compared to:
The spread of gears; the crank length; the geometry - it's all so much more progressive than in Pantani's day. Add in power meters, head units with telemetry and team radio and it's a different world.
As a mountain biker, you'd look at those bikes at the time and be astonished at how basic and regressive they often were, even by the standards we had back then. Things are faster now for less-nefarious reasons, I hope.
and fuel on personalised nutrition programmes to the nearest g of carbohydrate.
And not only are they personalised but they're taking on large amounts as well.
If it helps at all, Vingegaard and Evenepoel both beat Pantani’s time up there as well.
doesn't really - my feelings are not specific to pog
From nickc's article:
Physiologists and nutritionists acknowledge a limit there’s a limit for “safe” carbohydrate intake, but don’t think elite sport has found it yet.
In the meantime, nutrition brands are evolving their product lines to meet the demand for more, and physiologists tinker with test athletes to see how far things can go.
It’s only a matter of time before today’s “carb ceiling” is blown away.
It could be that coaches and teams have only really started looking for athletes who are 'super eaters', ie, people who can tolerate incredibly high amounts of carbs without it ending up coming out of both ends. Pog, Vingegaard, Rogalic, Evenepoel, etc could just be the first who happen to be able to tolerate higher levels of carbs and are therefore far ahead of the rest of the field.
If this becomes the defining factor in what makes a Grand Tour rider then we'll start seeing the rest of the peloton reaching this level over the next few years.
It could also be that there is something the peloton has started taking that allows them to absorb carbs faster. Like every other drug there will be super-responders. It may be something that may or may not have long term health effects and which will be banned at a later time.
Or the carbs thing is just a red herring like Armtrong's high cadence was.
Personally I'm not going to overthink it and just hope professional cyclists don't start regularly dropping dead in their sleep again.
My nephew was a child athlete in the late 2000s up until 2017. He was saying that some children of Eastern European, Baltic and other countries of that time, were ploughing a lot of money into gifted and talented children early, who showed promise in sports. This was not happening in our country at the time. They were getting better nutritional advice, the best coaches and equipment just generally having a better training programme. My nephew struggled to get funding, sponsorship and great coaches, it was frustrating for his level of talent.
Maybe this is why these youngsters are rising quickly through the sporting ranks of many sports nowadays, only a thought.
Estimated 6.98 W/Kg for Pog for 40 mins, comes out at about 7.3W/Kg if you factor in altitude.
I wonder what Joaquim Rodríguez' time was on Plateau de Beille when he won there in 2015? Only 10 years ago rather than 25 years back to Pantani.
Whilst I hope the improvements are entirely due to progress in bikes, aero, nutrition etc I suspect there have been similar improvements in doping too.
I still remember the panorama programme from a while ago where they doped the presenter who was a good club triathlete, saw huge gains but even when they told wada exactly what he had taken they still couldn’t get a positive test.
I still remember the panorama programme from a while ago where they doped the presenter who was a good club triathlete, saw huge gains but even when they told wada exactly what he had taken they still couldn’t get a positive test.
I don't remember that part of it...?
I remember they doped him up under medical supervision for a repeat attempt at an Etape or something similar but he didn't improve much - the implication being that everyone else at the sharp end of whatever amateur event it was had also spent a year doping.
I wonder what Joaquim Rodríguez’ time was on Plateau de Beille when he won there in 2015? Only 10 years ago rather than 25 years back to Pantani.
Best time in 2015 was Alejandro Valverde in 45:30 at 20.97 km/h
http://www.climbing-records.com/2024/07/new-top-100-plateau-de-beille-takeover.html?m=1
Joaquim Rodriguez was 47:44 @ 19.99 km/h
Tadej was 3kph faster than Valverde back then
A lot depends on how it gets raced as well (plus the weather conditions). One or two riders smashing the crap out of it vs a group of riders at a stalemate.
If you attack on the climb and smash it, it'll be a faster time than arriving at the bottom as a lone leader, pacing up it to win the stage.
Another one out - Maxim Van Gils is covid positive
https://twitter.com/lotto_dstny/status/1812863528853721427
Thanks @nbt I didn't know of the climbing records site.
GOOOOO Sir Cav.
Je suis umm... in Nice.
The trams are a) thankfully air conditioned cos it's ****ing roasting and b) all decorated in yellow for the Tour. 🙂
Only got here last night so we'll head into town in a bit and see what's going on.
crazy-legs - enjoy. It's going to be super exciting.
Here's hoping Sir Cav makes it.
Would love to see Cav get a last one as a sign-off to his career, but feel Philipsen is now on the up and got the confidence although i don't like the guy, if not Cav, then Girmay for a fantastic fourth...
Stage start in Gruissan - best known as location for the first part of Betty Blue ?
Another rolling rest day. Peloton is over-hydrated and have had at least three nature breaks already. Will be a sprint at the end. Nobody can be bothered in the heat.100km to go...
Nobody can be bothered in the heat
It's absolutely baking here. Was 28° at 9am.
40km to go. The one off the front has done a nice job of showing the Totale Energie jersey and Enve bike. When he was told to go, some while back, it was the least attacking attack I ever saw; he ambled away gently, talking/moaning into the radio, and nobody was silly enough to go with him!
Last 10km...
Roundabout sprint chaos i think from looking at the map with 4.5km to go?
Roundabout sprint chaos i think from looking at the map with 4.5km to go?
I think Biniam Girmay would probably agree with you!
The last roundabout had been straightened by the Nimes roadwork team as seen from the aerial view.
I remember the sprint into Le Havre in 1995, a sizeable roundabout on approach to the finish caused a big crash. I'd spied the roundabout from the deck of the ferry prior to docking in port! Had a good chat with Phil Liggett prior to the race arriving and Mario Cipollini winning the stage. Those were the days (winky eye emoji).
Well Biniam seems OK, a few bumps and bruises. Should be an interesting couple of intermediate sprints coming up. I'm hoping for some breakaway action too (at last).
Going to be weird these last few stages having no spring stages left, but then have two sprinters trains going hell for leather to intermediate sprints?
Hoping Girmay can hold onto green jersey, before his injury i would of put money on him as he will get over the mountains better, but not so sure now.
More breakaways too with all those teams and riders that have not won anything yet trying as hard as they can to get something out of the race?
Oh god. Cadel Evans in the commentary box. What a tragedy for the tour.
Girmay showed he was in good form which is great to see.
I am preferring Eurosport most of the time, the time i prefer them to ITV4 seems to correspond with when Rob Hatch is commentating with Blythe, McEwan and Dani interjecting, but i then cannot stand Carlton Kirby and Sean "i only talk in generalisations" take over...
Looks like the peloton are sitting up? That second group is huge so surely the winner comes from there? Some technical descending ahead.
You've got to love Tadej
That was chaotic, but what a fabulous stage.
Sean managed to say 'difficult/difficulty in nearly every sentence. I still prefer Ned and David (not enjoying Cadel) even with the dreadful advertisements.
Hey cycling enthusiasts, have you thought about leaving your pet in your will to a cremation company?
no but we're all going to buy a skoda
Man, I've just had the weirdest dream - Victor Campanaerts winning a sprint !!
Well Campanaerts seems like a bloody nice bloke... very honest interview and emotion, hopefully he will get a contract next year..
I made more noise than the neighbours during the football when Campenaerts sprinted. So pleased for him.
He's signed for Visma for next year, so the rumour goes. Robbie McEwen just mentioned it as well.
Happy for Campenaerts - what a gent !!
Happy for Campenaerts – what a gent !!
Second this. Great result!
Campenaerts....blimey it's dusty in here.
I was as pleased for him as I was when kwiatkowski won his stages. They’re both very popular in the peloton. What a lovely final interview. He’s a great guy.
Two big GC stages. Visma will have to flog their team to keep the pace high. Wout will need tomorrow for recovery, so expect a hard ride with UAE setting a brutal pace and Pog to win with an attack. Then Saturday will either be a damp squib as the race is settled, or Remco and Soudal gunning to move up to contest second with the final TT. Which Pog will win.
Tomorrow will be interesting. Part of me thinks that Evenpoel could go pop on a big mountain day, the other part of me thinks that on the evidence of yesterday, maybe we'll see Jonas properly blow up on a climb for the first time.
Tomorrow will be interesting. Part of me thinks that Evenpoel could go pop on a big mountain day, the other part of me thinks that on the evidence of yesterday, maybe we’ll see Jonas properly blow up on a climb for the first time.
Yeah Remco could well pop, but then so could Vingago and Pog all for different reasons!
Pog sits on Jonas’s wheel, Remco attacks, Jonas can’t follow and Pog shrugs his shoulders until the last few hundred meters.
Remco, Pog, Jonas over the line, but Pog has a bigger gap over second.
Pog absolutely has enough of a gap to ride conservatively. Which means the chance of him attacking is reasonably close to 100%.
^ 🙂
I'm super excited for today's stage. Sun is finally out at home, sitting watching a big Alpine stage in the TdF - seems like summer has finally arrived!
And the works IT system is all buggered thanks to Crowdstrike so just going to have to sit and watch the whole Tour stage instead. What a shame.
I think this stage will be brutal.
Tadej will want to win as Isola 2000 is his altitude base so he will want to win 'at home'. He can attack on the final climb and win.
Jonas needs to take big time so I wouldn't be surprised to see him attack on the Cima di Bonnette and then catch Van Aert/Laporte or whoever is in the break from Visma at the top.
Queue a huge fight for the break.
The Intermediate sprint is before the first climb, the Col du Vars, so I think Alpecin will control up to here for Phillipssen to get some points.
Then up the Col du Vars all hell will break loose going for the break. I expect an early grupetto and some sprinters to not make it up the first climb before abandoning (but I reckon Cav will battle on).
UAE won't want to let a break go containing Visma riders for the reasons above. Lots of teams need to get into the break with only two stages to go. I expect a top 10 GC to get into the break. But I reckon this will take ages to form and may only have a small gap over the top of the Col du Vars.
In the words of Adam Blyth, it's going to be a cracker
Only just caught up, was busy yeterday and the highlights weren't available when I got home. Tried to watch full coverage from 30k to go (made me wish I'd seen the whole stage, it seemed as crazy as the day before!) but was just falling asleep I was so tired.
Chuffed to bits for Campanaerts, it was SO lovely to see just how emotional he was, I can totally get that
We don't know these riders, but some really come across as top guys, I'm now putting Campanaerts on my List of lovelies.
Can Sir Cav make it? Fingers and toes crossed.
maybe it happens for everyone but when Vic was on the podium they panned round and it looked like all his team-mates were there to applaud - awww
Today has a bit of climbing in it, then
https://www.cyclingstage.com/tour-de-france-2024-route/stage-19-tdf-2024/
On the Cime de la Bonnette, they climb up then do a 180 and come back down with 100m of the climb, that would be a great point to spectate
maybe it happens for everyone but when Vic was on the podium they panned round and it looked like all his team-mates were there to applaud
ITV coverage showed that and said it was unusual and asigne of how much the team all like Victor. Lovely.
Coverage starts
"Let's welcome Sean Kelly"
"Yes, well, today is going to be a very difficult day"
*screams internally*
This is interesting. Current fastest time up Bonette is held by Robert Millar (Pippa York) set in 1993.
https://twitter.com/pippa_york/status/1814100870667063405
Similar stage to today but with an additional climb to start - the Col D'Izoard.
Not sure why Pippa hasn't been on any coverage this year? Absolutely brilliant pundit imo.
Anyone watching live? I'm forcing myself to work (sad face emoji)
Not sure why Pippa hasn’t been on any coverage this year? Absolutely brilliant pundit imo.
Agreed. I’m trying to not make the obvious assumption.
Agreed. I’m trying to not make the obvious assumption.
I'm being dim here, what's the obvious assumption?
Pogacar in this TdF is the biggest bag of shite I've ever seen.
Turned today's stage off when he made his move, it's truely and absolutely unbelievable, the guys juiced up to the max. Even more fake considering his Giro efforts earlier in the year.
Pogacar in this TdF is the biggest bag of shite I’ve ever seen.
You never watched Lance then?
Yeah I watched / despised plenty of Lance, this is worse.
It's less that... ^^ and more than he's depriving very deserving riders (like Matteo Jorgensen) of a maiden Grand Tour stage win.
He's just winning for the sake of it now; even Armstrong had the good grace not to crush everyone like that.
It's like he's an Elite rider in amongst a 4th Cat race, that's the difference between him and everyone else.
And it's making the racing properly dull.
Pog's doing 26kph up a sustained 6% gradient and no-one is strong enough to draft him for any length of time, despite the fact that he rode past some of the best climbers in the race, and has put multiple efforts in since the start of the TdF and Giro. (And let's not pretend that you can't draft at these speeds - its the same speed as we do on the flat.)
He was taking a second per second off the leader on that final climb for >3min. I want to be impressed but can't help but be skeptical...
And it’s making the racing properly dull.
I said on the Pogacar thread that the Giro was the most boring I've seen for along time because of him, and this is the same. Will he be 'strong' enough to ride the Vuelta? The way he looks I can't see why not.
Agreed. It's honestly like he's brought a motorbike to a scooter race.
I want to be impressed but can’t
+1
He’s just winning for the sake of it now
If he can win, why should he lose for the sake of it?
Vuelta as well? Why not, and win half the stages too.
He’s just winning for the sake of it now; even Armstrong had the good grace not to crush everyone like that.
Don't insult the people Armstrong sought to destroy for trying to expose him with a statement that suggests he has an ounce of grace in his body. Everything he did and continues to do is calculated, cynical and solely in his own interests
Wonder how it must be being a skeptical journo having to use superlatives about his performance.
There's another thread for debating whether or not Pogacar is doping. For those of us here to enjoy the Tour, maybe move the posts above to that one.
I enjoyed today. It was nice to see Carapaz race into the polka dots, and Remco continues to surprise (although not so much that Vingegaard couldn't stick with him. He's clearly not on top form but he's still doing amazingly well).
The BBC comments section is fun - trying to suggest doping opaquely so that they don't remove it.
As above, we need to take the approach that cycling news did, just keep doping chat to one thread, and then the TdF general chatter to this one. Seen the result, but not the coverage, will watch the highlights later. Up until this point I think that it's been quite exciting. All getting a bit inevitable now I suppose, but a mere week ago people were talking about Jonas riding across to Pogacar on a climb and then beating him in a sprint.
Watching the highlights now.....
Vinegard......don't know what it is but aesthetically he's a sponsors worst nightmare. I don't know if it's the radio in his skinsuit on his back that makes him look like the hunchback of Notre-Dame. Don't know if it's the helmet/glasses combo on his face. Don't know if it's just his shoulders and way he sits on his bike. But by god, he looks awful. Clearly I'd give my left nut to be half his speed, but geez.
But by god, he looks awful. Clearly I’d give my left nut to be half his speed, but geez
I think Froome still wins the "fastest rider who looks terrible" award...
I’m being dim here, what’s the obvious assumption?
The trans issue. Oh and that 67 mins of the Bonette was beaten (assuming it's measured the same).
Vuelta as well? Why not, and win half the stages too.
I think UAE have already ruled it out on the basis they don't want him burnt out. Which is probably sensible, even if it would be an incredible achievement.
I think UAE have already ruled it out on the basis they don’t want him burnt out. Which is probably sensible, even if it would be an incredible achievement
Shame, I'd love to see it!
Vuelta as well? Why not, and win half the stages too.
At some point there was a supposed "bet" or offer of a bonus payment from some billionaire or other if a rider could win all 3 Grand Tours on a single year.
Not sure what happened to that...
Landa has been quietly excellent hasn't he