[Closed] Tarp or Tent?

[quote=molgrips ]Terra Nova Laser Ultra only 620g. Costs £990 though. My sleeping bag is 400g and a sleeping mat could be 350g, that's pretty light kit.

Blimey - that's lighter than my single skin tent. Mind you I only paid just over £100 for it, it is lighter than most normal bivi/tarp combos and it sleeps 2 fairly comfortably. My sleeping bag is a bit heavier than that, but then it's nominally a 3 season bag (fine for OMM at the end of October) and the combo of that and bubble wrap is still lighter than your bag and mat!

Had meant to get all that out for a "bivi" this year, but it might be next year now...

How much does your bivvy bag weigh

As always it helps if your head isn't fully enclosed, which works best when there are no bugs.

I've seen hooped bivis (heavy) and I've seen bivis with vent flaps with bug netting (claustrophobic) but what I haven't seen is some kind of arrangement where you can put your head out of the bag but in a mozzie net.

Maybe if you had a loop on your tarp you could hang one up?

That RAB one I linked to has a wee loop that can be attached to a pole / branch to keep the net part off your face. Done well it then looks like one if those hopped bivvy bags. There are others with a similar feature. A wee loop sewn into your tarp in the right place would, indeed, achieve the same.

The Kestrel has a similar tab, but less netting.

Or just wear a midge hood.

You mean the Ascent has the loop and face net?

[img] [/img]

The Ascent is fully waterproof, so you just need a wee tarp to cover your head and any kit.

[img] [/img]

Gives a very open pitch so you can see what's around you...

[img] [/img]

I've a [url= http://borahgear.com/cubenbivy.html ]Borah Gear bivy[/url] with a bug mesh at the head end that has a lifter loop that I can clip to the underside of the tarp. As above, being cuben fibre it ain't cheap, but as Colin says you could always sew your own loop onto any bivy bag.

[quote=molgrips ]I've seen hooped bivis (heavy)

Does nobody make a hooped bivi using a thin flexible carbon pole like I have in my single skin tent? Seems like an obvious way to make an ultra light one which keeps things off your face, but is free standing.

Ideal setup for me might be an eVent bivi and smaller tarp if the weather looked like being bad, and one of those water resistant ones if it didn't. I'd couple that with a thermarest neo air mummy shaped mattress, and some thin carbon poles to put the tarp up without trees.

this guy (Scotty) made me my bivi bag to measure and to the spec i wanted, i also go a hand made quilt off him too, Top drawer stuff Highly recommended

https://bespokeultralight.com/blog/

Hooped bivvies tend to be made of quite heavy duty material and weigh from 600g upwards (some are over a kilo so heavier than the lightweight tents). A carbon pole is only going to be a little bit lighter than an alloy one, maybe 50g at the most, probably less. It's a bit like cutting the handle of your toothbrush brush in half to save weight but still taking a 2Kg sleeping bag.

The Borah Gear Bivy is 130g but it's something I only use when I really do want the lightest weight kit, it's just too fragile for day in/day out usage. My normal bivy bag is an Alpkit Hunka

Weight is just one thing you need to look at with kit.

I've never had a hooped bivy - they just seem (to me) to have too many compromises and are neither one thing (a lightweight bivy) nor the other (a tent).

My lightweight setup consists of: tarp; carbon pole and pegs; bivy bag; sleeping bag and mat. If I'm under shelter then it's just sleeping bag and mat. If I'm outside and there's little chance of rain or there are midges then I'll add the bivy bag. If it's raining or looks like rain then add the tarp.

Ideal setup for me might be an eVent bivi and smaller tarp if the weather looked like being bad, and one of those water resistant ones if it didn't

I actually use the same tarp regardless of bivvy bag. The "Flying V" when using the Ascent and I use the bike wheels as supports to get a more enclosed pitch if using the Kestrel.

[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4394/37390293506_5d893ec95b_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4394/37390293506_5d893ec95b_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/YY42AS ]P1040637[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/druidh2000/ ]Colin Cadden[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4426/23585807358_54d9972305_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4426/23585807358_54d9972305_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/BWcqP1 ]P1040634[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/druidh2000/ ]Colin Cadden[/url], on Flickr

Sorry for the photo quality in the second shot. It was dark and I was shivering.

I found a page somewhere with multiple shapes of tarp pitching - many of which require a good selection of loops at various locations on the tarp. I have two big tarps (3x3m and 5x5m) that I use for light car and overseas camping, and stuff like picnics and beaches, but they annoy me because they aren't square and are hard to pitch in alternative ways if it's windy. They also lack loops in important places.

I guess I could get them modified.. hmm..

Siltarp 1 or Alpkit Rig 3.5 would be large enough and both have a few tie-off/lifting points. Rigs often come up 2nd hand too.

Err, 3mx3m is square!

The Alpkit tarps have lifters in the middle of the panel as well as round the edges so you can set them up in various configurations. see if you can find a diagram of how they are laid out.

There's lots of ways to pitch a tarp but you end up only using two or three: for the larger of our tarps I nearly always use the [url= http://bearbonesbikepacking.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/bear-bones-guide-to-rig7-part-2.html ]2 pole mid[/url] as demonstrated in my photo earlier in the thread. For the smaller tarps I'll use the [url= http://bearbonesbikepacking.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/alpkit-rig-35-dummies-guide.html ]dropped tail[/url]

[quote=whitestone ]Hooped bivvies tend to be made of quite heavy duty material and weigh from 600g upwards (some are over a kilo so heavier than the lightweight tents). A carbon pole is only going to be a little bit lighter than an alloy one, maybe 50g at the most, probably less.

I'm not sure you've understood what I'm suggesting here - the carbon poles in my tent are 2mm carbon rod IIRC, much thinner than normal poles and very flexible. Hence they weigh less than 10g and you're saving almost all the weight of the alu pole. Clearly you could make a hooped bivi from lighter material.

https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/equipment-c3/tents-shelters-c25/bivi-bags-c41/helium-bivy-p2803

[img] [/img]

504g including pole?

I was given a Selk suit as a present, potentially a walkable bivvy bag. [img] ?v=1498863432[/img].

It's really only of use for one season, but I have often thought it would be really handy if it was waterproof/breathable and ok for lower temperature ranges.

So after reading this thread I discover there is a [url= https://www.selkbagusa.com/collections/selkbag-pursuit-realtree-xtra/products/selkbag-instinct-realtree-xtra ]Selk outdoor version[/url] good to -6ºC.

Anyone tried it? That and a light tarp would be useful.

Had a quick search so [url= http://fibraplex.com/index.php/carbon-fiber-tent-poles/ ]these[/url] might not be the lightest but they seem suitable for using in a "sprung arch" configuration. Their figures claim that their carbon fibre is half the weight of the equivalent 7075 aluminium pole.

Let's say the hoop is 2.5m in length (I have no idea of the actual length but it seems in the right ball park) so that's 250cm * 0.2g/cm = 50g rather than 110g. So the bivy now weighs 600g rather than 660g (assuming you've got one of the lighter hooped bivvies). You'll make better weight savings using a lighter material for the actual bivy than swapping out the pole. And that's the problem.

Bivvies like these are intended to be used just about anywhere, moving to an ultralight material compromises that. Even the lightest hooped bivy is heavier than tents like the ZPacks Hexamid which have a lot more room. I've searched around and the lightest hooped bivy appears to be about 500g with a 50g pole (stealth edit: it's the one Colin has picked a couple of posts above). My ultralight setup comes in at 400g and I can sit up, get changed, cook, etc. out of the weather with it.

Err, 3mx3m is square!

It's been designed and slightly shaped to be pitched in the 'saddle' configuration like this:

[img] [/img]

The ends with the guys on here are tapered. This means if you want to pitch it in a rectangular fashion it doesn't fit quite so well. Just a bit annoying.

Metalheart has one of those Helium hopped bivvys. And has since bought a Lunar Solo.

[quote=whitestone ]Let's say the hoop is 2.5m in length (I have no idea of the actual length but it seems in the right ball park) so that's 250cm * 0.2g/cm = 50g rather than 110g.

Or 10g rather than 110g for what I'm suggesting, which is what the poles in my tent are.

Bivvies like these are intended to be used just about anywhere, moving to an ultralight material compromises that.

In the same way the ultralight material in your bivi compromises that? I'm just suggesting adding a very lightweight pole onto a lightweight bivi to hold it off your face, rather than using a hanging point. Clearly it would have different capabilities to bivis made from heavier weight materials, but so does your ultra-light bivi.

I'm intrigued as to what the tent is that has a 10g pole. Do tell 😕

I presumed he'd just bought some carbon rod?

My bivi is an army surplus one, weighs a ton but can fit my gear in it at my feet if it's raining, and is properly 'wake up in a pond' waterproof.

For comparison an alkaline AAA battery weighs 11.5g.

The main hoop on my Lasercomp is alloy because it has to bend and the two end poles are carbon and might be 5g each (they are 20Km away ATM so can't weigh them), then again they are only 400mm long or so.

Edit: Found the weights online - 11g and 460mm long

To work in a hooped bivy the pole would have to be bendable to a radius around 450mm and then straighten for packing.

Scotroutes that outdoor research bivvy looks just the job paired with an alpkit tarp, any recommendations on carbon poles for the tarp and is the bivvy big enough for a mat and a sleeping bag? That set up could be just what I'm after

It's a Polaris Event Lite Shelter - only available for a couple of years but similar in concept to the better known Sup Air, which was at one time the standard MM tent for those going ultralight.

https://web.archive.org/web/20040609191254/http://www.sleepmonsters.co.uk:80/gear_article_window.php?article_id=21

The poles are over 2m long in that - you don't straighten them for packing, you bend them into a circle. I keep the poles threaded in the tent and then just wrap the tent around the rolled up poles - will fit inside a 30L pack.

@fudge9202 Try Stuart at [url= http://www.bearbonesbikepacking.co.uk/shop/?product_cat=shelter ]Bearbones[/url]

Aye - for poles you want the Pole-a-bear.

I'll page Metalheart for his review of the OR Helium.

Edit; he's at work so it'll have to wait. 🙂

Cheers whitestone, and scotroutes looking forward to it, will check out the pole-a-bear

Fudge, OR bivi is reasonably roomy I get an Exped 7cm UL mat and a Rab Neutrino 300 sleeping and there's still some space.

I've not used it extensively (not tested it under real duress (or even rain). If I'm completely honest I bought after reading Greg Mays blog after his TDR last year. If it stands up to that I thought...it's a pretty small pack size and is my good weather lightweight option/choice.

Poles for the tarp? As per ScotRoutes BB Pole-a-bear carbon are good. I bought 2x 1m in he first instance but have subsequently picked up a 49" one for the SMD Lunar Solo so will take mismatched sizes now to raise the front for access (or possibly even just the SMD one...).

My photo from page 1 shows the set up (with a single BB 1m pole and a Rab Siltarp1 which is roughly same size as an alpkit rig3.5).

Now, if the secret mods will stop texting me.... 😉

Great metalheart cheers for the info

fudge, some more photos of OR/siltarp set up to be found here.... https://www.flickr.com/photos/77564901@N06/albums/72157681234574594

Metalheart those pics are awesome, great setup with the tarp and bivvy I think that will do me well with some carbon poles. A man after my own heart with the Shiraz!!!

Hehe, it was a great wee bivy.

Thought you might appreciate more pics 😀

Yes they were great gave me some inspiration, cheers.

Apologies for resurrecting this but after building this

[IMG] [/IMG]

and obtaining some Bikepacking bags from Wildcat gear I’m getting excited to get out. I’ve decided on a tarp and bivvy set up with some carbon poles.

Now everything cost wise is mounting up so I’d like a recommendation for a warm sub £100 sleeping bag to see me through to autumn

Bump for the looking out at the rain crowd 😀

This thread cost me money!

Just had an Outdoor Research Helium Bivy arrive today. Not tried it yet, won't be for a few weeks

I've got a Hunka but want to do a few little adventures with my lad this year. He'll no doubt sleep in the Helium!  I'll have the Hunka... 😃

Measured weight on digital scales 505 grams.

Oh, I got it from a place on eBay to get 5% Quidco.

........ But the Bivy arrived with a code giving 10% off next order over £20.

So..... If anyone wants to order this Bivy, if you go via Quidco then enter this code (assuming the code can be used on eBay AND that Quidco track it) you could get 15% off... In theory.

Bringing it down from £161* to £137... In theory.

The code any help to anyone? 😏

* Available a bit cheaper on one companies website but after 5% off, it was almost identical cost and eBay gives me a layer of protection.

Tempted poopscoop, although I'm sure that code won't work on ebay.

What length does the pole fold down to?

One pole longer than the other by about a centimetre.

That longest one is 30cm. Weight is 55g for the poles.

The code for 10% should still work on their website.

I think the company is called Twistmoto? Will check later.

30cm is fine, thank you!   CBA with a tarp, so this looks a good upgrade from my army Goretex.  Half the weight and pack size really.    Got a Zephyros1 tent but that's too much for the odd night or two (but perfect when using commercial campsites as mentioned above)

Glad I went for the tent and not the Tarp Saturday night 🙂

[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4783/40843604012_0deb86a8ef_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4783/40843604012_0deb86a8ef_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/25ed9vb ]29339447_10156350088241474_2323879896171937792_n[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/nzrich/ ]Richard Munro[/url], on Flickr

Leave no trace! WHOOPS

[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/814/40843605222_2d216fbe26_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/814/40843605222_2d216fbe26_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/25ed9S3 ]29340214_10156350089846474_4916153720305090560_n[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/nzrich/ ]Richard Munro[/url], on Flickr

Well in the end went for a Wildcountry Zephyros 1 ep tent  with a free footprint , will see how I get on before possibly getting a tarp and a hunks xl. I acquired a pipedream 400 and an Exped DownMat to sleep on so should be cosy.

This

https://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/p/wild-country-tents-zephyros-1-ep-tent-D1214001.html?colour=98

Just need a seatpack to get off